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What is an average starting pay for MD pathologist?
just curious
just curious
Average starting pay for MD pathologist
- Thread starter redapple123
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You want to read the Sticky "Jobs Info" at the top of the list of threads.
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^^ Bwahahaha!
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What pays 300K and where?
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Ive had several fellows from SDN over the last 5 years receive 280-300K starting offers and ask me if that is good enough..../shoots self in head.
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If you have to ask then you don't know.
On occasion, one can hit the trifecta of location, fellowship, and connections. Definitely an outlier, but it happens.
Now that I think about it, I was called by a recruiter last year about a small midwest practice that was in desperate need... to the tune of 400K first year.
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Very realistic estimation (from personal experience), but things like this are incredibly variable. Geography definitely matters, fellowships might matter, practice environment matters. You're going to get all sorts of numbers here.
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Well, playing devil's advocate I'd have to say I can totally see that happening if those offers were the basically the ONLY thing going for the position i.e. no family/babysitting in the area, next closest city is 3 hours away, i.e. the "They work really hard and I don't really want to live there but DAMN that is a lot of money - will I regret not taking it? Gimme a way out of this!" angle.
Ive had several fellows from SDN over the last 5 years receive 280-300K starting offers and ask me if that is good enough..../shoots self in head.
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Oh so THAT'S what happens when you call back those 1-800 pages!
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I dont care who you are, what you do, how happy you think you are, you will always ALWAYS regret not going after big money. It will sneak up at random times in your life like a nagging sore throat...when you buy your first house, a new car and send your kids to college. You will always wonder.
Caveat emptor
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Bet he'd take the money if offered.
Which, 150 or 300?
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In my experience, from first hand knowledge of people with jobs, or recently accepting jobs:
Average starting pay for a General Pathologist with a Surgical Path Fellowship or Cytopathfellowship - 225K in places like Iowa or Pennsylvania(basically boondocks)
if in a major metropolitan area with same qualifications - 150k
Average starting pay for a General Pathologist at an Academic Institution -(100k-150k)
Average starting pay for a Pathologist with a GI, Hemepath fellowship - (250-350k)
Average starting pay for a Dermatopathologist is (250k-450k)
Average starting pay for a General Pathologist with a Surgical Path Fellowship or Cytopathfellowship - 225K in places like Iowa or Pennsylvania(basically boondocks)
if in a major metropolitan area with same qualifications - 150k
Average starting pay for a General Pathologist at an Academic Institution -(100k-150k)
Average starting pay for a Pathologist with a GI, Hemepath fellowship - (250-350k)
Average starting pay for a Dermatopathologist is (250k-450k)
Fields that should not have a fellowship (unless it is a research fellowship) :GI,GU,GYN,Breast (Everyone has seen tons of this stuff by residency). If not just do an oncologic fellowship that should be enough.
Fellowships that actually add to one's fund of knowledge:Hemepath, Cytopath, Dermpath, Forensic path.
Fellowships that actually add to one's fund of knowledge:Hemepath, Cytopath, Dermpath, Forensic path.
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What's are some good oncologic fellowship programs for someone interested in private practice? AND NO I DON'T WANT TO DO RESEARCH!
I would add renal to the list.
MSKCC or Anderson. Close competition but MSKCC wins beacuse of the one and only NYC.
Renal is also a useful fellowship if you are really into medical kidney.
MSKCC has a very good network of graduates both in academia and private practice all over the states and this really helps in landing a good job.
Renal is also a useful fellowship if you are really into medical kidney.
MSKCC has a very good network of graduates both in academia and private practice all over the states and this really helps in landing a good job.
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Renal, really?
I would think that requiring an electron microscope to finalize most diagnoses would force the renal pathologist to work at an academic center? Medical lung seems more useful to me.
The non-acgme surgpath subspecialties are sought after in private practice because they provide a marketing edge to groups trying to attract GIs and urologists, who gravitate towards the idea of their very own specialized pathologist. I don't think anyone who finished a GI fellowship would claim to be more proficient than a practicing general surgical pathologist with 20 years of experience, but our specialty will probably move in this direction due to these market forces.
It was interesting to hear CAPs proposal for a surg path subspecialty certification program, they floated this at the GI society meeting at USCAP... anyone have more info on this? seemed like the society would not support it.
I would think that requiring an electron microscope to finalize most diagnoses would force the renal pathologist to work at an academic center? Medical lung seems more useful to me.
The non-acgme surgpath subspecialties are sought after in private practice because they provide a marketing edge to groups trying to attract GIs and urologists, who gravitate towards the idea of their very own specialized pathologist. I don't think anyone who finished a GI fellowship would claim to be more proficient than a practicing general surgical pathologist with 20 years of experience, but our specialty will probably move in this direction due to these market forces.
It was interesting to hear CAPs proposal for a surg path subspecialty certification program, they floated this at the GI society meeting at USCAP... anyone have more info on this? seemed like the society would not support it.
My experience (residency, no fellowship): starting offers $170K-$250K. However, the job that offered $250K starting was an employee-only position, no potential for partnership, with a max salary of ~$310K, and no money for CME. The job that offered $170K starting offered additional $10K bonus/year, partnership after 2 yr, then average yearly salary was reported to be $300-$400K depending on the year- plus another $10K/yr for CME.
hth
hth
Everyone has their priorities.
From me priority no.1 is a thriving metropolis. The mere idea of suburbia suffocates me.
Second priority is excellent and varied surgical pathology material from head to toe.
Third priority is efficient ancillary staff.
Fourth priority is an excellent immunohistochemistry and special stains set up.
Fifth priority is intelligent,trustworthy and talented colleagues (people at the top of their game, not losers who "second consult" every other case).
Sixth priority is money.
Someday I am going to have my own setup.
From me priority no.1 is a thriving metropolis. The mere idea of suburbia suffocates me.
Second priority is excellent and varied surgical pathology material from head to toe.
Third priority is efficient ancillary staff.
Fourth priority is an excellent immunohistochemistry and special stains set up.
Fifth priority is intelligent,trustworthy and talented colleagues (people at the top of their game, not losers who "second consult" every other case).
Sixth priority is money.
Someday I am going to have my own setup.
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Priority list for LADOC:
La Dolce Vita, stress free: free from worries about competitors, cash, relationships...
free from worries about drunk homeless people rummaging through my trash and begging me for change on my way to morning coffee that routinely occurs in the "thriving metropolis".
free from having to drive my car around in circles trying to find a parking space.
free from having to pay massive bridge tolls or spend 45 minutes in traffic to go out to dinner
I want to sit in a smoking jacket next to a warm fire with my Wall Street Journal and pipe freshly packed with the Admiral's tobbaco, perhaps a wood barrel aged Aberlour scotch or a 2002 Bordeaux within arms reach.
No friend calling me up to go hang out at some lame as crap Bohemian club in the Haight. No more nights at some back alley wine bar filled with lesbian man haters where I struggle to listen to whatever pathetic musings about politics/change my drink companions endlessly blather on about...About 30 minutes in I begin day dreaming about sucking on the end of a Glock19 hoping to end the misery.
I want quiet. That is my priority.
La Dolce Vita, stress free: free from worries about competitors, cash, relationships...
free from worries about drunk homeless people rummaging through my trash and begging me for change on my way to morning coffee that routinely occurs in the "thriving metropolis".
free from having to drive my car around in circles trying to find a parking space.
free from having to pay massive bridge tolls or spend 45 minutes in traffic to go out to dinner
I want to sit in a smoking jacket next to a warm fire with my Wall Street Journal and pipe freshly packed with the Admiral's tobbaco, perhaps a wood barrel aged Aberlour scotch or a 2002 Bordeaux within arms reach.
No friend calling me up to go hang out at some lame as crap Bohemian club in the Haight. No more nights at some back alley wine bar filled with lesbian man haters where I struggle to listen to whatever pathetic musings about politics/change my drink companions endlessly blather on about...About 30 minutes in I begin day dreaming about sucking on the end of a Glock19 hoping to end the misery.
I want quiet. That is my priority.
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Haha, your priorities are basically my priorities, except for the tobacco part and the wall street journal. Maybe the latter will interest me more someday.
Having lived in cities and lived in not cities, I prefer not cities by a factor of 1000. It is immensely pleasurable to not deal with commuting, traffic, parking, paying for parking, and squeegie men at every light. Here we have the guys who say they are homeless vets, but all they do is stand there with a sign. They don't bother you unless you make eye contact. The vague assertion of "culture and diversity" that is your reward for city living is also a vast overstatement. Live outside the city, use the ample money you save to pay someone to drive you there if you ever choose to go. My commute next year will be between 11 and 13 minutes from door to door, depending on the four traffic lights to go through. I will also be less than 40 minutes from the major airport in the area, which is closer than if you live in a city in many areas.
I think that starting salaries probably range (for private - academic is more like $100-150, higher if you're pseudoacademic) from $150k up to $300k, although I have heard of higher. There is a wide range because there is a wide range of practices. The higher salaries often include fewer benefits, more time to partnership (if at all) although there are actually some outliers that accelerate your partnership.
I have increasingly heard about places not providing extra money for CME. That's a little odd if you are an employee. If you're a partner, it makes sense to me because it all gets to you in the end anyway (if you have an ethical group). CME is just part of your income (tax free however). I was at a conference recently where someone asked the audience how many actually got a CME allowance (these were almost all practicing pathologists, not fellows or residents). The number that did not was fairly high (>25%).
Which field of pathology contains the most difficult slides to come up with a diagnosis?
This is a difficult question to answer.
It depends on the specimen rather than the subspeciality and the level of expertise of the pathologist in the subspeciality.
Every pathologist will has his/her achilles' heel (with rare exceptions).
For some it will be soft tissue lesions, for some neuropathology, for some non-neoplastic lung disease, for some muscle pathology, for some melanocytic lesions etc.
The list shortens as you develop expertise.
This is a difficult question to answer.
It depends on the specimen rather than the subspeciality and the level of expertise of the pathologist in the subspeciality.
Every pathologist will has his/her achilles' heel (with rare exceptions).
For some it will be soft tissue lesions, for some neuropathology, for some non-neoplastic lung disease, for some muscle pathology, for some melanocytic lesions etc.
The list shortens as you develop expertise.
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There's that. And there's the flip side, where wife takes children and leaves because she never sees you all the time that you are busy going after beeeeeeeg money.
But all said and done, I'm +1 to your priorities. Sounds like it's time to get out of LA.
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The kids are not the only thing she is taking. I would say maybe half of that big money goes with her too.
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To me the most difficult areas are the "subjective calls" where reasonable people could disagree, yet some experts have very strong opinions, and the difference between the two things you are deciding on is significant (or at least sounds significant to patients). Like DCIS vs ADH (a continuum but yet one is called carcinoma and one is not). Dysplastic nevus vs melanoma. Stuff like that.
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Couldn't ask for a better Saturday night, granted I prefer Balvenie 15 yr.
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thinks what? think they are tasty with horseradish sauce?
can't stand horseradish sauce.
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Actually, close to 90% of dermpath can be signed out by someone with very little training. The other 10% can be quite difficult for pathology residents though, mainly because of lack of clinical background and general familiarity with rare/uncommon inflammatory skin diseases.
The 90/10 rule applies to other areas in pathology as well, notably GI.
Also, some things that seem hard aren't really hard but just uncommon so there is a lack of comfort level with certain specimens. Some soft tissue tumors fall into this category.
Well... It's sad to hear that we all earn the same...
About 15k-20k during fellowship and 30k-50k as a start pay later on... up to the service chief, which might be around 70k...
And no, I haven't misspelt the numbers, though now I sort of miss an extra zero on the right...
About 15k-20k during fellowship and 30k-50k as a start pay later on... up to the service chief, which might be around 70k...
And no, I haven't misspelt the numbers, though now I sort of miss an extra zero on the right...
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thanks for the entertainment . . . its been a while since i've seen a post that was so confusing it made me smile
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I don't believe you get enough dermpath...although, of course some are better than others at the different subsp...dermpath is still the hardest of all
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Come on, soft tissue is much more difficult than derm.
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no offense, but how can you say dermpath is the hardest of all when you haven't started residency. I haven't even rotated in dermpath yet (however sat in on a few signouts) and I can't even come close to making any conclusions.
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Thank you for pointing that out to this guy(scurred). I had originally written some words on the subject but erased it, figuring it wasn't worthwhile. I love it when those who have little path experience like to pass judgement on what subject is the most difficult or what fellowships they are gonna get or how the job market really is. I mean come on, these guys should sit thru at least 1 day of residency first before making such assumptions. It lowers the bar of the good info and quality entertainment that im used to on Path SDN. Thank you KeratinP for keeping it real.
thanks for the entertainment . . . its been a while since i've seen a post that was so confusing it made me smile
I'm not sure if the post was confusing because my English or because the first sentence was ironic. In the case it's the lack of English level, I'm sorry.
What I wanted to say is that here we earn 15k-20k euros during residency and between 30k and 50k later on.
Though euro is somewhat more expensive than dollars, our monthly income falls very short when compared to yours. If I happen to add an extra "0" to each number, it seems to fit your income.
I hope I expressed myself more clearly now...
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you're right...I can't, but from my own "little experience" and having spoken with a number of residents, they all have said in large majority the same thing.
again...THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION...it's not fact...If you believe anything on this board and take it as gospel...well you pretty much fall into the waco category of people
again...THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION...it's not fact...If you believe anything on this board and take it as gospel...well you pretty much fall into the waco category of people
