Away/Audition Rotation Questions

[bcgans]

Disclaimer: I am starting med school in 3 months, so I don't really know diddly about rotations. Just trying to get an idea about 3rd/4th year goings-on. These aren't pressing questions, just wasting time looking ahead at the future. Please let me know if I have this stuff straight:

Lets say I am in love with EM and want to apply to EM programs for residency. I have seen that most people do "away rotations" (also called audition rotations (I think??)) at specific programs they are interested matching into, usually as 4th year electives.

Questions:

1) I assume most of these rotations are 4 weeks long. If my fav programs are all over the country, does this mean I will move several times in a year, once every four weeks, for these rotations?

2) About how many away rotations do students partake?

3) How does this affect significant others? Do they usually follow? Or stay put while your away?

I know, I know, I should be studying for finals and relaxing before school starts - but I can't - bedsides, its fun to day dream about the future journey I'm on. thanks guys!

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[Colbert]

Questions:

1) I assume most of these rotations are 4 weeks long. If my fav programs are all over the country, does this mean I will move several times in a year, once every four weeks, for these rotations?

2) About how many away rotations do students partake?

3) How does this affect significant others? Do they usually follow? Or stay put while your away?

I know, I know, I should be studying for finals and relaxing before school starts - but I can't - bedsides, its fun to day dream about the future journey I'm on. thanks guys!

It depends on your school. Some schools allow more than others, some allow electives in third year and some don't, some require all core rotations (IM, surgery, OBGYN, peds, psych) to be done at school-affiliate hospitals and some don't. Additionally, a lot of east coast schools have most of their core hospitals on the east coast and some schools have rotations at hospitals all over the country (I spoke with a student from KCUMB who is spending all of third and fourth year in Philly). So as far as the general question, it depends on your school. Now...

1. Yes, if your willing to do it. I'm in the process of scheduling my fourth year rotations and I will be doing them on the west coast, east coast, and midwest. So it's entirely possible. I spoke with a kid doing ENT who did 8 two-week rotations across the country in four months. He said it was great for him because he got to see that places he thought he'd love weren't right for him and places he didn't think he'd want to be at he ranked highest in the end.

2. I'm doing 4-5. It's up to you. You'll want to do them July-November (maaaaaaaybe December if your'e doing MD match) of your fourth year. Keep in mind you need to be interviewing from November-January so you don't want to schedule a tough audition rotation and then tell them, "Hey I'm gonna be gone half the time on interviews."

3. Up to you. If he/she has a job, and you won't be at these places long, what's the point in having them move?

 

[bcgans]

It depends on your school. Some schools allow more than others, some allow electives in third year and some don't, some require all core rotations (IM, surgery, OBGYN, peds, psych) to be done at school-affiliate hospitals and some don't. Additionally, a lot of east coast schools have most of their core hospitals on the east coast and some schools have rotations at hospitals all over the country (I spoke with a student from KCUMB who is spending all of third and fourth year in Philly). So as far as the general question, it depends on your school. Now...

1. Yes, if your willing to do it. I'm in the process of scheduling my fourth year rotations and I will be doing them on the west coast, east coast, and midwest. So it's entirely possible. I spoke with a kid doing ENT who did 8 two-week rotations across the country in four months. He said it was great for him because he got to see that places he thought he'd love weren't right for him and places he didn't think he'd want to be at he ranked highest in the end.

2. I'm doing 4-5. It's up to you. You'll want to do them July-November (maaaaaaaybe December if your'e doing MD match) of your fourth year. Keep in mind you need to be interviewing from November-January so you don't want to schedule a tough audition rotation and then tell them, "Hey I'm gonna be gone half the time on interviews."

3. Up to you. If he/she has a job, and you won't be at these places long, what's the point in having them move?

Thank you! I know I don't have much direction on the subject, just wondering how other students did it.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Since I am personally in love with EM, and that was your example, I'll give you a taste of my plan. There are ways to "sneak" a rotation where you get exposure to a program you're interested in, even if it isn't on their service. Here's my plan for 4th-year:

June: Core outpatient IM rotation; shouldn't be too strenuous, so this will be good for getting my applications done

July: Elective - Rotation at big EM program where I want to hit a home run

August: Core rural/underserved FM rotation

September: Elective - Rotation at big EM program where I want to hit a home run

October: Core Adult/Geriatric FM rotation; probably good rotation that will be flexible with my interview schedule. I hope.
November: Medicine Selective - MICU rotation at a program whose EM program I am interested in, who happens to keep an EM team in the MICU

December (actually middle of november to middle of december): EM ultrasound rotation - my research is in EM ultrasound, and this gives me exposure to a program on a not-too-stressful service. And it is a chance where I can really get down and dirty and learn something that I enjoy, rather than trying to make an impression. By this point, I'll have all my SLORs and application materials in, and it will be a little more relaxed, but still on the service I'm interested in.

After that point, there's probably not much that can be gained by doing an elective somewhere else, so I'm just going to have fun with the rest of them.

Now how to get exposure at other programs?

I'm spending Christmas break in NYC this year, and I'm planning on doing some shadowing while I'm there, at two programs that interest me. One of which is where my research PI trained, and the other is where a friend of mine from back home trained.

I may take a weekend to drive up to South Carolina or MCG to shadow as well. I may actually rotate at MCG if I can squeeze it in, but it probably wouldn't be until after the decisions have been made, so I'd like to get in there a little earlier.

And there are some osteopathic and dual programs that I'd like to take a look at as well. I probably won't be able to rotate with them because I am already committed elsewhere for my early electives. Yes I have already committed to do 4th-year electives and I haven't even started 3rd-year yet. One of the places is where I did my research, and another of the places is where my EM course director wants me to go. I could pick other places if I wanted, but I don't want to look like a flake to anyone at this point. I figure if I say I'm going to do something, I should just do it.

However, I want to make it clear to these programs that I'm not completely sure that I'm going to go allopathic, so that I am taken seriously when I apply. So I will also go in and spend a weekend at a couple of these places when I can.

But my point here is that with some creative scheduling and some initiative, you can get your name out there at plenty of places. In some ways, I am told that taking just a weekend to go shadow and check out a program can be more impressive than doing a rotation there, because it shows initiative and sincere interest.

So yes, you will bounce around during 4th-year. Everyone does it. It has to be done. If you ask your significant other to follow you around all over the place while you do this, you are an *******. They can come visit you on a weekend every now and then or something, and not be stuck somewhere that they don't know anyone while you're off on your rotation. If this is something they really want to do, fine. But I would not request this. Then again, I'm not exactly Mr. Successful Relationship, so what the hell do I know.

 

[BobBarker]

My wife is a teacher so she has summers off. We went in July to a program that I was interested in. We did vacation type stuff the entire time in the evenings and weekends, baseball games, theme parks, etc. We had a really good time. If you can do something like that, I don't see why not?

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Since I am personally in love with EM, and that was your example, I'll give you a taste of my plan. There are ways to "sneak" a rotation where you get exposure to a program you're interested in, even if it isn't on their service. Here's my plan for 4th-year:

June: Core outpatient IM rotation; shouldn't be too strenuous, so this will be good for getting my applications done

July: Elective - Rotation at big EM program where I want to hit a home run

August: Core rural/underserved FM rotation

September: Elective - Rotation at big EM program where I want to hit a home run

October: Core Adult/Geriatric FM rotation; probably good rotation that will be flexible with my interview schedule. I hope.
November: Medicine Selective - MICU rotation at a program whose EM program I am interested in, who happens to keep an EM team in the MICU

December (actually middle of november to middle of december): EM ultrasound rotation - my research is in EM ultrasound, and this gives me exposure to a program on a not-too-stressful service. And it is a chance where I can really get down and dirty and learn something that I enjoy, rather than trying to make an impression. By this point, I'll have all my SLORs and application materials in, and it will be a little more relaxed, but still on the service I'm interested in.

After that point, there's probably not much that can be gained by doing an elective somewhere else, so I'm just going to have fun with the rest of them.

Now how to get exposure at other programs?

I'm spending Christmas break in NYC this year, and I'm planning on doing some shadowing while I'm there, at two programs that interest me. One of which is where my research PI trained, and the other is where a friend of mine from back home trained.

I may take a weekend to drive up to South Carolina or MCG to shadow as well. I may actually rotate at MCG if I can squeeze it in, but it probably wouldn't be until after the decisions have been made, so I'd like to get in there a little earlier.

And there are some osteopathic and dual programs that I'd like to take a look at as well. I probably won't be able to rotate with them because I am already committed elsewhere for my early electives. Yes I have already committed to do 4th-year electives and I haven't even started 3rd-year yet. One of the places is where I did my research, and another of the places is where my EM course director wants me to go. I could pick other places if I wanted, but I don't want to look like a flake to anyone at this point. I figure if I say I'm going to do something, I should just do it.

However, I want to make it clear to these programs that I'm not completely sure that I'm going to go allopathic, so that I am taken seriously when I apply. So I will also go in and spend a weekend at a couple of these places when I can.

But my point here is that with some creative scheduling and some initiative, you can get your name out there at plenty of places. In some ways, I am told that taking just a weekend to go shadow and check out a program can be more impressive than doing a rotation there, because it shows initiative and sincere interest.

So yes, you will bounce around during 4th-year. Everyone does it. It has to be done. If you ask your significant other to follow you around all over the place while you do this, you are an *******. They can come visit you on a weekend every now and then or something, and not be stuck somewhere that they don't know anyone while you're off on your rotation. If this is something they really want to do, fine. But I would not request this. Then again, I'm not exactly Mr. Successful Relationship, so what the hell do I know.

Where did you hear this? How does one find the time, because I sure as hell haven't had time while on rotations.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I have heard it from several people, including residents, attendings at academic programs, and residency directors. Most recently, it was discussed at the residency director panel at ACOEP.

I think the lack of free time during rotations is why it shows legitimate interest if you find a way to make it happen. I'm also planning on using a little vacation time for that purpose.

 

[Flushot]

Thanks for sharing your plan TT. I too am interested in EM and it's nice to hear someone's gameplan. Do you plan to do a fellowship in Ultrasound EM too? I was looking into that as well.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Thanks for sharing your plan TT. I too am interested in EM and it's nice to hear someone's gameplan. Do you plan to do a fellowship in Ultrasound EM too? I was looking into that as well.

Ultrasound fellowship is definitely something Id be interested in. We'll see what happens when the time comes, but if I had to make the decision now, I would do the fellowship. It is such a useful tool that having a high level of proficiency to be able to perform studies, and to teach others, would be a huge asset to the department.

Have you done much with US?

I'm also considering maybe a critical care fellowship. But right now, US is in the lead.