away rotations necessary?

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nontradappl

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are aways necessary for a student with an otherwise good application (step1 in 250s, mostly honors, +research/pubs)? I sort have missed the boat on applying since I only have room in my schedule for the first couple months. Also married and not sure a month away would be feasible anyway.
Please advise.
 
will you have any anesthesiology experience? from a home program? will you have an LOR from an anesthesiologist? if the answers are yes, yes and yes, you don't need to do any away rotations.
 
are aways necessary for a student with an otherwise good application (step1 in 250s, mostly honors, +research/pubs)? I sort have missed the boat on applying since I only have room in my schedule for the first couple months. Also married and not sure a month away would be feasible anyway.
Please advise.

Are you joking? Word on the street is, aways aren't necessary for ANYONE...let alone 250s/honors/research
 
Have discussed this before... you have everything to lose and nothing to gain by doing an away rotation.

-copro
 
I've talked myself into doing an away - and I'm not sure I'm gonna apply/interview there - for the sole purpose of seeing a hospital that has an perioperative set up that is completely different than my home institiution.

So I agree it might not be necessary, but one might be interesting to do anyway...

dc
 
What is the general opinion for those of us who have no anesthesia program. The only rotation available to us 2 weeks of our Senior Surgery rotation.
 
What is the general opinion for those of us who have no anesthesia program. The only rotation available to us 2 weeks of our Senior Surgery rotation.

I would definitely do an away rotation in that case, if for nothing else the experience. I was in the same boat and ended up doing 3 aways. I did 3 not because I felt like I had to but, because I wanted to. I had a great time visiting different programs and getting to know the residents and staff. It was a one of a kind chance to being able to compare programs first hand and see how things are done differently in different places. Take advantage of the freedom offered in med school to visit new places and see different things. I know I'm trying to fill the canteen before getting tied down July 1.
 
I'm not sure what value an away rotation would have for a student with honors and a 250.

OP, you should get an interview at most programs. I would only do an away if you are determined to make it into a certain program. Otherwise, you are probably wasting time and money. There will be few apps with better scores than yours, so really, you'll knock yourself out of contention with any perceived personality conflicts. These will only be easier to discover if you spend one month at a program.
 
There will be few apps with better scores than yours, so really, you'll knock yourself out of contention with any perceived personality conflicts. These will only be easier to discover if you spend one month at a program.

I always bought this argument - that doing aways can only hurt you - but really, why should that be? If an away is an extended version of an interview, wouldn't they come to the same conclusion on you as an applicant as they would on interview day? Are you saying they'd prefer taking applicants they know less about? Can't an away impress people enough to lock you into a high ranking just as likely as it could put you low on the list? After all, the majority of people who come to the program have not rotated there - wouldn't they prefer to highly rank someone they know better?
 
I always bought this argument - that doing aways can only hurt you - but really, why should that be? If an away is an extended version of an interview, wouldn't they come to the same conclusion on you as an applicant as they would on interview day? Are you saying they'd prefer taking applicants they know less about? Can't an away impress people enough to lock you into a high ranking just as likely as it could put you low on the list? After all, the majority of people who come to the program have not rotated there - wouldn't they prefer to highly rank someone they know better?

Not if your personality doesn't mesh with one of the 20 or so attendings/residents you work with that month. You'll see many more people for longer periods during the away, thus have more opportunities to slip up.

I don't sell that argument to everyone. I did an away, and I think aways can help you in certain situations, and they are at least neutral in most. I just don't think this guy will have a problem getting interviews, so I don't think the away is going to net him any more exposure that he would have otherwise missed.
 
you should do an away for yourself...you need a little more exposure to anesthesiology than 2 weeks to make this is for you. as a med student in anesthesiology i got some wide ranging exposure: some trauma call, some OB, a little peds, some regional...etc. it was nice to experience the range of the specialty before I signed on for the long haul.... try to find an away that will let you do some other stuff than straight OR time.
 
What is the general opinion for those of us who have no anesthesia program. The only rotation available to us 2 weeks of our Senior Surgery rotation.

I was in this same situation -- no anesthesia residency and only 2 weeks of shadowing a private practice anesthesiologist with occasional intubations.

I think in this situation an away rotation is a must. At my own school, I saw how a private practice anesthesia group ran and that was great especially since I probably will end up in private practice. However, seeing how a residency program is run is essential -- if anything so that you know what kinds of things to look for during your interviews.

I ended up doing an away rotation at a top program so I could see an anesthesia residency in "all of its glory". I ended up working my *** off and being miserable towards the end of the month (mostly because of all the frustrating bus commuting I had to do) --but I learned a ton and it was a really valuable experience. I was offered an interview at that program but during my month there, I realized that it wasn't the type of program I would fit in well at so I ended up canceling my interview. I would recommend that you do an away at a place that you are considering going to but not one you are absolutely set on going to -- that way if something goes wrong, you haven't screwed yourself.

P.S. Even if you haven't secured an away rotation yet -- keep trying. Sometimes the students who applied in March end up canceling.
 
Agreed with the previous posters.

Personally, I think it is beneficial to do an away rotation ....if the away program is where you would like to go for residency. Instead of a blind date at the interview, they'll atleast get to know you a bit beforehand. Now...it could go either way...as in the blind date TV show.

can you name all the pieces?:
sashimi-main.jpg
 
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An away may not hurt you. At my program, I occasionally have the opportunity to evaluate students I work with. More than once I've called the PD up and said, "This guy's a stud. He's smart, has good hands, and knows when to stay out of my way. Once we got to PACU, I'd send him to see the next patient and start the IV. He nailed all the intubations and IVs. We should take him if we can get him." I haven't had to do the, "This guy's a prick. Don't waste an interview," but I know people who have, and I trust their judgement. I have done the, "This person is really nice and tries hard, but isn't in the same league as our residents. He'll be a good resident, but our program can do better." I know the PD listens when I or other residents call. That said, an away clearly can go either way. However it's not a necessity, unless you want to try a place you're unsure about or if you don't have a home program and need some exposure and a letter.
 
I am planning to do an anesthesiology rotation and two sub-Is. All three rotations could be done at my home institution, so it is not necessary for me to go elsewhere to get LORs. It seems based on this thread that most of you would say doing one of my sub-Is away isn't necessary, but I'm debating about the pros and cons of staying here for all three rotations versus doing one of them as an away. I figure that I have three options:

1) Do all three rotations at my own school, which I think would provide me with excellent training. I already know several of the anesthesiologists and residents here, and there is something to be said for being on your own turf. Right now I'm probably leaning toward this option.

2) Do two rotations at my own school and one sub-I at another hospital that would be one of my top residency choices. If I did this, any advice about how to pick one hospital for the away? Right now there are at least half a dozen hospitals that I'd be interested in based on their programs and locations, with no clear front-runner. Obviously I can't rotate at them all, so do I just roll a die here?

3) Do two rotations at my own school and one sub-I at another hospital that I probably won't apply to just for the experience of working at another hospital. I'm kind of less excited about this option, just because of the expense of it and the hassle. On the other hand, the experience would be good, and it probably wouldn't hurt to have an outside LOR.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 
Q -

I say do the away. I've become less and less accepting of the idea that "you can only screw up on aways". I benefitted greatly from the away that I did.

I have said over and over, and will continue to say, that the away rotation in Surgical ICU at Cleveland Clinic Foundation (CCF) is extraordinary, especially for someone that has some concerns with expenses. My home SICU is so awful that I had to get away. CCF is anesthesia-run, with great teaching, great autonomy, and extremely sick patients. On top of that, free housing for the month (in dorms, but I repeat - free) + on call meal allowance. I think (but don't know if) you get the on call money for doing general ORs anesthesia, but for sure the housing is free. Check it out!

dc
 
I am planning to do an anesthesiology rotation and two sub-Is. All three rotations could be done at my home institution, so it is not necessary for me to go elsewhere to get LORs. It seems based on this thread that most of you would say doing one of my sub-Is away isn't necessary, but I'm debating about the pros and cons of staying here for all three rotations versus doing one of them as an away. I figure that I have three options:

Do the away. Just realize that it is a month's full of chances to blow it at that particular institution. I did an away at my #1, rocked 19 out of 20 days but on the 20th almost blew it because of about 10 seconds of indiscretion. So, be aware that it is high risk and high reward to do an away at a place you'd really want to go.
 
My away rotation has come up in conversation in the majority of my interviews. It been nothing but positively received and discussed so I highly recommend doing an away rotation, working hard, and garnering a LOR from that rotation.
 
I am trying to decide between two schools. One of them has no anesth. residency(SIU). The other has a anesth. residency that is pretty top notch(UofC). Is it fair to base my choice on presence/absence of a residency program at a school?

I would like to get into a good program in the Chicago area for residency and am pretty certain about anesthesia. I realize this may change but was wondering if going to the school without a program would be a hindrance without doing aways.

To make it worse, there is a big difference between the price!!

I appreciate thoughts!
 
I am trying to decide between two schools. One of them has no anesth. residency(SIU). The other has a anesth. residency that is pretty top notch(UofC). Is it fair to base my choice on presence/absence of a residency program at a school?

I would like to get into a good program in the Chicago area for residency and am pretty certain about anesthesia. I realize this may change but was wondering if going to the school without a program would be a hindrance without doing aways.

To make it worse, there is a big difference between the price!!

I appreciate thoughts!

These two schools are obviously in different categories, so unless you feel you will be significantly happier and a better fit for SIU, I would personally choose Pritzker for its reputation and your above concern re: anesthesia residency program. And even if you don't choose anesthesia, ultimately you'll be better connected and instantly more highly regarded for most fields from Pritzker as opposed to SIU, all other things being equal, IMO. Cost, as you mentioned, is an obvious factor as well that you will need to weigh for yourself how much deeper you are willing to fall into debt for a name. In addition, if academia is anywhere in your sights, the name will help there too.
 
I am trying to decide between two schools. One of them has no anesth. residency(SIU). The other has a anesth. residency that is pretty top notch(UofC). Is it fair to base my choice on presence/absence of a residency program at a school?

I would like to get into a good program in the Chicago area for residency and am pretty certain about anesthesia. I realize this may change but was wondering if going to the school without a program would be a hindrance without doing aways.

To make it worse, there is a big difference between the price!!

I appreciate thoughts!
Wait until you get your financial aid package from Pritzker before making any decision. Private schools usually give more institutional aid than public schools do. It may ultimately not cost that much more to go there if you get some grant money.
 
Don't bother with the away unless you have strong personal reasons for being interested in one particular program (say, there's only one residency where your partner's parents live and one of them is ill and it's a priority to be close by). In that case, do the away and tell them you really want to go THERE and give it your best.

Otherwise, you are going to get invited to interview at all the other programs anyway. I had board scores in the mid 230s, few honors and no real research and I interviewed at most of the elite residency programs I applied to. Without having done aways at those programs.
 
Doing away rotations are a double edged sword. If you are a personable, energetic, enthusiastic, charismatic person then most likely you will do yourself a great service by an away rotation. If you are more of an awkward, reserved, quiet or withdrawn person that has a hard time faking enthusiasm (like I am) then this may actually hurt your chances (you will be perceived as a downer or tool to hang out with for 4 years) . If you insist on doing an away rotation then limit it to 2 weeks. If you want to do 4 weeks then do 2 weeks of general and 2 weeks or peds or OB so the residents wont get sick of you. All program directors ask the residents what they thought of the away rotation applicants, so every second you are there is a job interview, this is precisely why you should limit it to 2 weeks (would you want a job interview to last 4 weeks?).
 
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Thanks so much for the advice! I will wait for fin. aid.
 
(would you want a job interview to last 4 weeks?).
I wouldn't even want a job interview to last for two weeks. 😱

After talking to several people, I've decided that I will do an away at a program that I want to check out before deciding whether to apply there. I didn't apply to their medical school and have no first-hand knowledge of the institution, so it seems sensible to go there and see if they like me and I like them. I would not have thought to apply to this program for residency, let alone an away, had someone not highly recommended it. So at worst I've lost nothing except four weeks that I was going to spend doing an anesthesia rotation anyway, while at best I've gotten some great training, an extra LOR, and maybe a new top choice that's a great fit.
 
All program directors ask the residents what they thought of the away rotation applicants, so every second you are there is a job interview, this is precisely why you should limit it to 2 weeks (would you want a job interview to last 4 weeks?).

100% agree with the double-edged sword idea. You stand to immensely increase or entirely ruin your chances at that particular program. Even if you rock the rotation for every day but one, you may have lost out your chance at an interview due to something stupid, rude, not funny, or accidental you said or did. Choose where you do one wisely.
 
For what it's worth...I did 2 aways this year and found both to be VERY beneficial. I learned a ton about the programs by rotating there and was able to impress attendings and residents alike. I received a phone call from the chair of one of the departments last week to be told that I am "ranked to match." He attributed the rank I obtained to the fact that I rotated there, knocked their socks off, and obtained a letter from a very prominent faculty member in their department. He said that several residents and attendings remembered me and would love to have me in their program.

Doing an away rotation is the singe most effective way of making yourself stand out from the pack - just understand that this can be for the better...or worse. Nothing ventured...nothing gained.
 
100% agree with the double-edged sword idea. You stand to immensely increase or entirely ruin your chances at that particular program. Even if you rock the rotation for every day but one, you may have lost out your chance at an interview due to something stupid, rude, not funny, or accidental you said or did. Choose where you do one wisely.

We had one once that was a strong candidate, and really interested, but said something foolish. Not sure if anything ever happened with that.
 
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