Awful at Anatomy Lab - Bad Sign for Surgery?

[applicant20212022]

Current M1 taking Anatomy. It’s definitely not my favorite class in the world, but I’ve been doing well on the written exams, and am decent at identifying prosected structures (after dissections).

However, I am awful at doing the actual dissections. Even if I pre-read the manual carefully, I usually find myself lost when trying to dissect our cadaver (e.g. I can’t really come up with the next step without asking others). Most of the time, my partners end up doing the dissection (they’re super super good at it), which makes me feel bad since I feel I’m not getting the “hands-on” experience I’m supposed to be getting from this class. I usually end up leaving dissection feeling like I didn’t really learn anything and disappointed that I didn’t contribute more.

Is this a bad sign that surgery isn’t for me? Currently, I’m most interested in ophthalmology, but I’m staying open-minded to all specialties (non-surgical and surgical). It’s been bothering me a bit that a huge chunk of specialties I’m interested in might be a terrible fit if I can’t even do anatomy lab well.

Furthermore, should I try to get better at dissections to “get the full learning experience” of anatomy lab, or is just focusing on prosected cadavers a better use of my time?

Thanks for any thoughts!

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[gyngyn]

There is very little in (medical school) anatomy that predicts success in surgery.

 

[M&L]

Being good at pretty much anything medicsl is not intuitive - it’s a skill you have to work on . Keep pushing and working hard and you will become ANYTHING and ANYONE you want to be .

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

There is very little in (medical school) anatomy that predicts success in surgery.

What are the best predictors of surgical success in your opinion?

 

[0ncogene]

What are the best predictors of surgical success in your opinion?

Work ethic

 

[operaman]

Minimal correlation. Cadaver dissection is a totally different animal than the real thing. I think if you absolutely hate being in the lab dissecting then maybe you won’t particularly enjoy surgery, but your aptitude isn’t really predictive at all. If anything, your classmates may appear better simply because they just blast through lots of important structures while you’re being extra careful. It’s hard to gauge anything when everyone is so universally bad at what they’re doing.

The real test is third year when you’re actually on a surgery rotation. If you love that then maybe surgery is a good fit. If you hate it, then maybe you’re destined for a different field.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I’ve been doing well on the written exams, and am decent at identifying prosected structures (after dissections).

Would just point out that, based on this, you are by definition not "awful at anatomy lab" The actual process of dissecting is daunting and intimidating for any novice, but if you're doing well on your exams then clearly you're internalizing the material which is the most important thing right now. Continue doing whatever you can to excel on your exams and prepare yourself for step 1. Let your experience on actual clinical rotations dictate whether you are truly interested in a surgical field or not.

 

[Dantes]

What are the best predictors of surgical success in your opinion?

Masochism

 

[VenusinFurs]

Masochism

The best surgeons are switches

To op, I’m not a surgeon, but living tissues are very different from cadaver tissues and you probably just need more practice to get good with a scalpel but you don’t have that luxury in anatomy lab. Don’t worry.

 

[deleted1065184]

If anything, your classmates may appear better simply because they just blast through lots of important structures while you’re being extra careful.

Just wanted to highlight this point because during my school's anatomy lab, my group was always one of the last groups. We would frequently ask instructors for help with identification.

I genuinely thought it was just that we weren't as good as our classmates. I found out that our classmates were actually just skipping over virtually all of the neruovasculature outside of major nerves and vessels lol.

 

[operaman]

Just wanted to highlight this point because during my school's anatomy lab, my group was always one of the last groups. We would frequently ask instructors for help with identification.

I genuinely thought it was just that we weren't as good as our classmates. I found out that our classmates were actually just skipping over virtually all of the neruovasculature outside of major nerves and vessels lol.

Yeah we had lots of similar experiences too! I remember thinking this one dude was the master of infratemporal fossa dissection and in retrospect he just ripped everything out of there except V3!

It's hard to overstate just how bad new MS1s are at dissecting anything. Even new interns are woefully unskilled and not allowed to operate alone and closely supervised whenever touching a patient. There's a good reason that surgical training is 5-7 years long, and even then there's more to learn. I'm starting my second year as an attending now and I've grown a LOT as a surgeon just in the last year, and that's after 5 years of residency training and 1 year of intense fellowship. Many of my mentors have said they truly learned how to operate in their first 5 years out of training, and I'm starting to see what they meant.

I really think there's little predictive value in terms of surgical aptitude from a gross anatomy course. Unless you absolutely hate doing any kind of dissection and don't find it the least bit interesting at all, in which case a career doing dissections may not be the best fit. If it's just that you're terrible at it, then don't fret because you're right where a new MS1 should be. Just keep working at it - you've got 10 years before you're on your own!

 

[Smurfette]

The thing about anatomy lab is that you are dissecting out structures and don't know tissue planes (because why would you, you're new at this), texture, color, pulsations, etc. that in a real life surgery situation help guide what we do. Even the angle you approach a structure in anatomy lab, where you ultimately are dissecting out many, many structures over time, may not really correlate to how we approach it surgically. Plus we know what structures can be cut, stretched and manipulated and an MS1 does not. I would say enjoying anatomy lab probably is helpful to a future career as a surgeon, but actual skill at dissecting at your level is not.

 

[Osminog]

Your aptitude in any first-year class should have no bearing on what specialty you choose. You’re a pre-clinical student; it’s too early to draw broad conclusions about your clinical skills.

 

[Mad Jack]

Current M1 taking Anatomy. It’s definitely not my favorite class in the world, but I’ve been doing well on the written exams, and am decent at identifying prosected structures (after dissections).

However, I am awful at doing the actual dissections. Even if I pre-read the manual carefully, I usually find myself lost when trying to dissect our cadaver (e.g. I can’t really come up with the next step without asking others). Most of the time, my partners end up doing the dissection (they’re super super good at it), which makes me feel bad since I feel I’m not getting the “hands-on” experience I’m supposed to be getting from this class. I usually end up leaving dissection feeling like I didn’t really learn anything and disappointed that I didn’t contribute more.

Is this a bad sign that surgery isn’t for me? Currently, I’m most interested in ophthalmology, but I’m staying open-minded to all specialties (non-surgical and surgical). It’s been bothering me a bit that a huge chunk of specialties I’m interested in might be a terrible fit if I can’t even do anatomy lab well.

Furthermore, should I try to get better at dissections to “get the full learning experience” of anatomy lab, or is just focusing on prosected cadavers a better use of my time?

Thanks for any thoughts!

I was terrible in anatomy lab and ended up a psychiatrist, for what it's worth.

But all jokes aside, living tissue is nothing like what you encounter in the lab. The purpose of anatomy lab is to get your bearings of where things actually lie in the human body and to give you an appreciation of how structure relates to function. It is not meant to make a surgeon out of you. Residency is what will give you those skills, and your current experience is just giving you a foundation of knowledge upon which to build your future surgical abilities.

 

[aldol16]

Frozen cadavers don't feel the same as real life surgery at all. Don't discount surgery if you're interested in the anatomy and pathology that surgery treats. You'll get a better sense of what surgery is like on rotations or during shadowing when you're actually operating on somebody.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Anatomy dissection was a waste of time and doesn’t correlate at all. Living tissue is very different from dead tissue, and there are important visual cues during surgery that simply aren’t there on a cadaver.

Get a good grade and move on.

 

[TakotsuboOkazaki]

Don’t worry OP. Cadaver lab was a huge time sink. Learned zero OR skills there. That’s what residency is for.

 

[George Lincoln]

Current M1 taking Anatomy. It’s definitely not my favorite class in the world, but I’ve been doing well on the written exams, and am decent at identifying prosected structures (after dissections).

However, I am awful at doing the actual dissections. Even if I pre-read the manual carefully, I usually find myself lost when trying to dissect our cadaver (e.g. I can’t really come up with the next step without asking others). Most of the time, my partners end up doing the dissection (they’re super super good at it), which makes me feel bad since I feel I’m not getting the “hands-on” experience I’m supposed to be getting from this class. I usually end up leaving dissection feeling like I didn’t really learn anything and disappointed that I didn’t contribute more.

Is this a bad sign that surgery isn’t for me? Currently, I’m most interested in ophthalmology, but I’m staying open-minded to all specialties (non-surgical and surgical). It’s been bothering me a bit that a huge chunk of specialties I’m interested in might be a terrible fit if I can’t even do anatomy lab well.

Furthermore, should I try to get better at dissections to “get the full learning experience” of anatomy lab, or is just focusing on prosected cadavers a better use of my time?

Thanks for any thoughts!

You’re in school which means you’re learning something new. Everyone’s learning curve is different when it comes to to different subjects. To be great at surgery means you have to master many aspects of knowledge. Just to back up a cadaver dissection is so different than operating on a live patient. The feeling of the dissection and tissue planes are so different between a preserved body and a live patient. Insofar as being a competent surgeon requires knowledge caring and coordination. As a Program Director I told my residents that I was there to train them to get into the pros. There is no athlete out there who from day one was the best. It’s just like getting to Carnegie Hall, practice.

 

[i-doctor]

Terrible here at anatomy (had to retake), but ended up in surgical sub. Ophthalmologist here. Obviously my field only covers a small anatomical area, but the point is that it doesn’t matter.