babies and the boards

[doctorwife]

So my husband and I are both doctors. I'm at a time in my career where it would be quite convenient for me to get pregnant because 9 months from now, I'll be between jobs.

My husband, however, has to take the anesthesia boards just after graduating from residency next August. He says we should wait until after he takes the boards because he is worried that having a baby around will be too much at that time. I am disappointed, but can't comment because I know nothing about the anesthesia boards and how much or little you need to study for them.

I want to be supportive and don't want to take my disappointment out on my husband. Tell me why he's right and I'm wrong, so I can go shake off the blues and come up with a new life plan.

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[periopdoc]

I started internship with a 1-month-old, and this August I started my first job out of fellowship with a second 1-month-old. My echo boards are this fall, so I am currently in the situation that you are describing. My advice, don't do it.

He has to study for the boards and he will have to take the time to do it. This will come at the expense of time spent with you and your new child. The amount of time needed to study for the boards is highly variable, but he will need a significant amount of time.

Should you choose to have the baby prior to boards, you will be stuck with less support from him than you would otherwise have. He will be stressed and torn between supporting you and preparing for the most important test of his life to date. That will hinder both his preparation and the time you get to spend as a nascent family.

God forbid you have a terrible c-section or your child has medical problems or colic, or you end up in a new city with minimal support from family and friends and you need him even more.

Plan your child for after the boards. You are already planning on a span of time off between jobs. Why is it so hard to increase your time off by an additional 1-2 months? It will reduce stress on both of you. Demanding you have the child earlier (assuming you could actually schedule these things with that kind of accuracy) sounds extremely selfish to me.

- pod

 

[deleted126335]

So my husband and I are both doctors. I'm at a time in my career where it would be quite convenient for me to get pregnant because 9 months from now, I'll be between jobs.

My husband, however, has to take the anesthesia boards just after graduating from residency next August. He says we should wait until after he takes the boards because he is worried that having a baby around will be too much at that time. I am disappointed, but can't comment because I know nothing about the anesthesia boards and how much or little you need to study for them.

I want to be supportive and don't want to take my disappointment out on my husband. Tell me why he's right and I'm wrong, so I can go shake off the blues and come up with a new life plan.

Babies are never convenient. To delay trying to have a child because of a time commitment to study for boards is INSANE.

 

[pd4emergence]

So my husband and I are both doctors. I'm at a time in my career where it would be quite convenient for me to get pregnant because 9 months from now, I'll be between jobs.

My husband, however, has to take the anesthesia boards just after graduating from residency next August. He says we should wait until after he takes the boards because he is worried that having a baby around will be too much at that time. I am disappointed, but can't comment because I know nothing about the anesthesia boards and how much or little you need to study for them.

I want to be supportive and don't want to take my disappointment out on my husband. Tell me why he's right and I'm wrong, so I can go shake off the blues and come up with a new life plan.

Try to time it so your due date is after his exam (sept or oct). You may need to wait a few months to start work but moneywise you guys will never get a bigger pay increase. Remember he will have oral boards the next year. It still may not work out (babies don't always follow the schedule). If you are in a difficult residency where your hours are long, you are on your feet all the time, you still have alot of overnight call etc. I would wait, but only if your job when you finish is going to be better workload wise.

 

[bostonblaz]

I took mine in atlanta this past april and my wife was due a week after the exam date. I was more then able to study and prepare. The onnly stressful part was when I boarded the plane and the 22 hours I was in atlanta as I did not want her to go into labor and have the kid while I was gon. Tell him to sac up. Blaz

 

[Bertelman]

Are you also moving to a new location? Moving while pregnant v. moving with a 1-mo old is very, very different. Consider other things in your life besides just his boards. D you want to start a practice with a 1-mo old, or would you rather get your feet wet, then have a few weeks off and get back to it?

As for board preparation, you'll have to temper my advice with the fact that I'm still months away from doing so, but I would like to think 🙂xf🙂 that I would be prepared enough to take the written boards one month ahead of time. I'd like to think that last month is just polishing the knowledge I have spent three years accumulating.

So, barring an obstetric emergency like others have mentioned, I don't think a child one month before oral boards would greatly affect his outcome, unless of course he has always been on the cusp of standardized exams like USMLE, etc.

Nonetheless, coming from someone who drove halfway across the country with a crying 3-mo old, I can say I wish I could have that week of my life back. For many other reasons, it might be best to wait until you have reached the new destination.

 

[hoyden]

So my husband and I are both doctors. I'm at a time in my career where it would be quite convenient for me to get pregnant because 9 months from now, I'll be between jobs.

My husband, however, has to take the anesthesia boards just after graduating from residency next August. He says we should wait until after he takes the boards because he is worried that having a baby around will be too much at that time. I am disappointed, but can't comment because I know nothing about the anesthesia boards and how much or little you need to study for them.

I want to be supportive and don't want to take my disappointment out on my husband. Tell me why he's right and I'm wrong, so I can go shake off the blues and come up with a new life plan.

It is not you who are wrong, it is HE, who is totally wrong here.
If he is telling you that he is not going to be able to pass the written exam next August after 3 years of residency because of the baby, he is just making an excuse not to have a baby at all...
Anesthesia written exam is not harder than your written( whatever specialty you might be) and to pass it he does not need more than 2 weeks of intense studies right before the exam, provided he has been reading at least something during his residency. Letting him have those 2 weeks for his studies, however, is going to be on your part - do not disturb him then.
If you are not an extremely needy wife, who relies on her husband all the time, than I do not see any problems with having a baby and taking the boards. If, on the other hand, you are - than I understand his fears.
However, you can get either a relative to help you during that time or a payed help( which, IMHO is much better) and also learn how to be less needy and dependent on his immediate help and assistance, which will only benefit you both.
Good luck and remember - there is no convenient time ever to have a baby 🙂

 

[pgg]

We had our three children while I was in medical school / internship. Two of the pregnancies were complicated and part of the reason we didn't go for 4, even though they all turned out fine. My wife was a stay-at-home mom for the great majority of that time, but it was still difficult and it did affect me academically.

My USMLE scores were all below the mean, Step 1 being the worst of the lot. My gpa was in the lower 1/3 of my med school class. I had instructors and one very stern dean tell me I needed to spend less time at home and more time in the library studying, that my family would understand in a few years when we were living the good life. Maybe they were right, there were times when I just skated by. If I'd been applying to residency a few years later when competition had ticked up a bit, I probably wouldn't have made it into an anesthesia program at all. 😱

It'd be easy to drop all the blame for my lousy grades and step 1 score on that first pregnancy. I spent a lot of time in the hospital with my wife, I missed a lot of classes and a few 'required' labs. But most of it was my fault - I wasn't very good at balancing family and school, and when push came shove, I blew off school. I had classmates who had kids, and they didn't all get Ds in histology.

I can say with only a trace of ego 🙂, and perhaps some smug satisfaction at proving one particular dean wrong 😀, that I did very well as an anesthesia resident, and thus far a year into practice I'm pretty sure I know which side of the bell curve I fall on.

In hindsight, as much of a stress as the pregnancies and babies were, the main reason I had crappy grades and USMLE scores was because I was a lousy student.

Anyway, the point of my story is just to make two points
- having kids DID make things harder for me
- it's still my fault I was an underachiever

He's got a YEAR to cram for the written exam. If he puts in the effort consistently for the next YEAR there's no reason he can't confidently go into the written and smoke it, kid or no kid.

That said, if all he's asking for is a TWO MONTH delay in getting you pregnant, that doesn't seem ridiculously unreasonable. It's not like he's got an open-ended "later" avoidance plan. Obviously I don't know how he's doing academically in his residency (are his AKT/ITE scores borderline?), but as someone who's stared down the barrel of a couple board exams I thought I might not pass, I can see where he's coming from. Though probably what I needed back then more than a lighter schedule was just a simple kick in the ass. That annoying dean was probably right, much as I hate to admit it.


Whatever you do, the kid's going to thwart your attempts to time anything, and even if you wait until after his writtens, you'll wind up in labor the week before he takes his oral boards the following spring ...

It'll always be something. Might as well get started now.

 

[doctorwife]

hoyden, I told my husband the same thing about it never being convenient. 🙂

Bertelman, this is going to make me sound like a pregnancy n00b, but which is worse, moving while pregnant, or moving with a new baby? I assume being very pregnant doesn't put you in the mood to lift a lot of boxes, but there is the whole drive across the country with a crying baby thing. Yes, we'd be moving. It would probably be a 3 day drive.

I am not a needy wife and I told him I wouldn't mind him taking time to study daily outside the house for a week or two prior to the exam. He's a really good test taker (like 240 on USMLE) so I don't think he's worried he will fail, but I think he just doesn't want to be more stressed out at that time - which I totally understand and would go with except for the fact of my schedule being different. Because of being between jobs, I'd be able to probably take like 8 or 10 weeks for maternity, and in my field (although it's a lifestyle specialty), I wouldn't be able to do that otherwise.

I don't like the idea of taking maternity leave immediately after starting a new job, but it's not that big a deal. He's doing a fellowship so we are only planning to be in this location for a year or so... if I skip out 3 or 4 months of it to wait to start, that'll cut out a lot of the potential for the new job. Plus, I'm the kind of person who would go stir crazy with no job.

Those are good tips, especially the one who mentioned echo boards, except that I'm clearly not demanding we have a baby sooner. I just liked the idea of having my baby while we live near my parents so they could help me out. I am afraid to go a thousand miles away where I don't know anyone and do this for the first time. The idea of having no-stress time for maternity leave appealed to me, since I could probably take about 8-10 weeks. I don't think that makes me selfish.

 

[hoyden]

hoyden, I told my husband the same thing about it never being convenient. 🙂

Bertelman, this is going to make me sound like a pregnancy n00b, but which is worse, moving while pregnant, or moving with a new baby? I assume being very pregnant doesn't put you in the mood to lift a lot of boxes, but there is the whole drive across the country with a crying baby thing. Yes, we'd be moving. It would probably be a 3 day drive.

I am not a needy wife and I told him I wouldn't mind him taking time to study daily outside the house for a week or two prior to the exam. He's a really good test taker (like 240 on USMLE) so I don't think he's worried he will fail, but I think he just doesn't want to be more stressed out at that time - which I totally understand and would go with except for the fact of my schedule being different. Because of being between jobs, I'd be able to probably take like 8 or 10 weeks for maternity, and in my field (although it's a lifestyle specialty), I wouldn't be able to do that otherwise.

I don't like the idea of taking maternity leave immediately after starting a new job, but it's not that big a deal. He's doing a fellowship so we are only planning to be in this location for a year or so... if I skip out 3 or 4 months of it to wait to start, that'll cut out a lot of the potential for the new job. Plus, I'm the kind of person who would go stir crazy with no job.

Those are good tips, especially the one who mentioned echo boards, except that I'm clearly not demanding we have a baby sooner. I just liked the idea of having my baby while we live near my parents so they could help me out. I am afraid to go a thousand miles away where I don't know anyone and do this for the first time. The idea of having no-stress time for maternity leave appealed to me, since I could probably take about 8-10 weeks. I don't think that makes me selfish.

I do not see ANY reason for you two not to have a baby immediately except that your husband sounds like a bit of a baby himself (oh-vey, too stressed for the test which he, probably, already passed on the ITE 😉)))
Go for it while YOUR schedule is allowing it since it is going to be YOU who will hold the house together, no matter how much time you spend at your job.
And if you can arrange the move when you or anybody else will FLY with the baby to your new home instead of 3 day driving with an infant - it will be worth the money spent on it, even if you engage both of your parents to help you.
Again - good luck and remember - you can make all the accommodations needed for comfort with money, but you can not accommodate lost TIME 🙂

 

[Tuohy]

We had our first child one month before step I exam (result: 99th percentile); 2nd child born during my CA-3 year and passed anesthesia written by 2 S.D.'s and anesthesia orals as well. I feel that having a baby gets you into a regimen/schedule that is useful for studying. For step I, I would go to the library from 8 am to 3 pm each day for three weeks prior and then come home and not touch a book until the next day to help out/be with our son. Hope this helps...

 

[epidural man]

Family trumps everything.

I had three kids on the road to attendingship - don't know the timing of it all, but just made the journey more exciting.

Your hubby will pass no matter what. Tell him to suck it up.

And by the way, in 19 years or so, you will be so glad that you had the kid earlier and actually think "Why didn't we have him/her 5 years earlier?"

 

[prongs]

There is NEVER a good time. I have had 3 in med school and residency. Sure, I don't read as much as some of my colleagues, but I am confident I will pass my boards even if I have another before graduation. Life goes on and you make it work.

 

[Narcotized]

I would like to think 🙂xf🙂 that I would be prepared enough to take the written boards one month ahead of time. I'd like to think that last month is just polishing the knowledge I have spent three years accumulating.

Agree. Writtens have a yearly ITE to gauge pretty much exactly where you stand. Orals is where I wouldn't want a one month old. Much more stressful. That said, if he's bombing his ITE's and is in a labor camp residency, then that one month off in July might be where he's banking on making it or breaking it. Only if that is the case would I delay DC-ing the birth control a couple of months. If he is in good standing based on his ITE's and has this whole year to keep that standing, I say fire away then and it will all be fine.

 

[Bertelman]

Bertelman, this is going to make me sound like a pregnancy n00b, but which is worse, moving while pregnant, or moving with a new baby? I assume being very pregnant doesn't put you in the mood to lift a lot of boxes, but there is the whole drive across the country with a crying baby thing. Yes, we'd be moving. It would probably be a 3 day drive.

I'm not sure which would be worse- guess it depends how pregnant you are. I can't imagine moving cross-country 8 mo pregnant, and I don't believe any airline would let you on board about blown up like that.

Maybe I just drew a short straw, but our little one was up at all hours of the night the 1st 3 months, basically requiring the presence of one of us on call. You may not think you can lift a box 7 mo pregnant, but neither can you lift one while carrying an infant. I think if you were ~6 mo pregnant for the move, it would be doable, but I guess a woman should be commenting on that. Worst case, you stay with your parents for a few day sand hop a plane.

I just know from experience that the drive you have mapped for 3 days will invariably take longer with an infant. You can't drive for much more than 2-3 hrs without stopping for a feed. Piercing screams will permeate the car for most of the trip. You will have pictures of the trip that suggest everyone was happy and loving the drive, but your heart will remember the cries and tears from all members of the excursion. But I digress...

 

[InductionAgent]

The OP's husband's concerns are not totally unfounded, but there will always be something happening that will make it an inconvenient time for a baby. Once the boards are out of the way, your husband will still be dealing with the adjustment to the responsibilities of being an attending anesthesiologist, working hard to ensure he becomes a shareholder in his group, or gets recognition in an academic practice. Then there will be the oral boards. Meanwhile, you may be trying to get your house fixed up and move in, etc.

If you do decide to wait a few months to time the arrival of your child until after the move and the written boards, it seems reasonable to establish that further delays would be unacceptable to you.

 

[Bertelman]

He's doing a fellowship so we are only planning to be in this location for a year or so...

Once the boards are out of the way, your husband will still be dealing with the adjustment to the responsibilities of being an attending anesthesiologist, working hard to ensure he becomes a shareholder in his group, or gets recognition in an academic practice. Then there will be the oral boards. Meanwhile, you may be trying to get your house fixed up and move in, etc.

I don;t know if this makes it better or worse, but he appears to be doing a fellowship.

 

[hoyden]

I'm not sure which would be worse- guess it depends how pregnant you are. I can't imagine moving cross-country 8 mo pregnant, and I don't believe any airline would let you on board about blown up like that.

Maybe I just drew a short straw, but our little one was up at all hours of the night the 1st 3 months, basically requiring the presence of one of us on call. You may not think you can lift a box 7 mo pregnant, but neither can you lift one while carrying an infant. I think if you were ~6 mo pregnant for the move, it would be doable, but I guess a woman should be commenting on that..

It is better not to lift boxes when you are pregnant at all. Actually, if you are a woman, you are not very good in lifting boxes and should not be doing so anyway - pregnant or not pregnant.

Worst case, you stay with your parents for a few day sand hop a plane.

I just know from experience that the drive you have mapped for 3 days will invariably take longer with an infant. You can't drive for much more than 2-3 hrs without stopping for a feed. Piercing screams will permeate the car for most of the trip. You will have pictures of the trip that suggest everyone was happy and loving the drive, but your heart will remember the cries and tears from all members of the excursion. But I digress...

Why do you have to DRIVE across the country with an infant?!? Why can't you fly to the destination point ( won't be that nice either, but shorter) with a baby and somebody else to help while the husband is driving ( in the given above case scenario there are no other kids involved)?

 

[doctorwife]

It is better not to lift boxes when you are pregnant at all. Actually, if you are a woman, you are not very good in lifting boxes and should not be doing so anyway - pregnant or not pregnant.

hahaha! I ought to take offense at this but you are so right!

I also think the flight idea is a good one, especially if it is a super new baby maybe I can get away without making all the other passengers hate me.

Anyway, I just wanted to tell you all that with these further discussions/this advice in mind, my husband has changed his mind and we are going for it! wahooo! thanks for the help!

 

[Narcotized]

Anyway, I just wanted to tell you all that with these further discussions/this advice in mind, my husband has changed his mind and we are going for it! wahooo! thanks for the help!

Unless your name is Bugs Bunny and he's Peter Rabbit, it's unlikely you'll get pregnant the exact moment you decide to, mostly likely making all of this moot.

Good luck!

 

[hoyden]

hahaha! I ought to take offense at this but you are so right!

There is no point in taking offense - a woman has different anatomy and physiology and should not be lifting heavy objects. Unless you are an American crazy feminist, which I am definitely not - I am an old-fashioned European feminist who does not confuse voting rights, a right to a similar wage and a necessity to have an adequate maternity leave with a right to boot camp 😉

Anyway, I just wanted to tell you all that with these further discussions/this advice in mind, my husband has changed his mind and we are going for it! wahooo! thanks for the help!

👍

Congratulations and I wish you all the best !

 

[Bertelman]

It is better not to lift boxes when you are pregnant at all. Actually, if you are a woman, you are not very good in lifting boxes and should not be doing so anyway - pregnant or not pregnant.

Dude...you're joking, right? I hope you don't really think you have to educate a physician that a 7 month pregnant woman should not be lifting heavy boxes.

do you have to DRIVE across the country with an infant?!? Why can't you fly to the destination point ( won't be that nice either, but shorter) with a baby and somebody else to help while the husband is driving ( in the given above case scenario there are no other kids involved)?

Uhhh...she's then one that told me she plans to drive cross-country.

There is no point in taking offense - a woman has different anatomy and physiology and should not be lifting heavy objects. Unless you are an American crazy feminist, which I am definitely not - I am an old-fashioned European feminist who does not confuse voting rights, a right to a similar wage and a necessity to have an adequate maternity leave with a right to boot camp 😉

Again, sometimes I don't know where the f you come up with this shit. Whatever country provided your medical education, did they really tell you that women are incapable of lifting boxes, and should abstain from physical exertion based on their physiology? What physiology is that, exactly? Should I start posting photos of weightlifting women that could bench press YOU!?!

 

[pgg]

Unless your name is Bugs Bunny and he's Peter Rabbit, it's unlikely you'll get pregnant the exact moment you decide to, mostly likely making all of this moot.

did they really tell you that women are incapable of lifting boxes, and should abstain from physical exertion based on their physiology?

No kidding. Getting some of those heavier casserole dishes onto the top shelf of the top cupboard requires some solid upper body strength.

 

[hoyden]

Dude...you're joking, right? I hope you don't really think you have to educate a physician that a 7 month pregnant woman should not be lifting heavy boxes.

I am not a dude ))))

A woman should not lift heavy boxes even if she is not pregnant. And it was you who actually asked the woman's perspective on the issue, or didn't you:

You may not think you can lift a box 7 mo pregnant, but neither can you lift one while carrying an infant. I think if you were ~6 mo pregnant for the move, it would be doable, but I guess a woman should be commenting on that.

Again, sometimes I don't know where the f you come up with this shit. Whatever country provided your medical education, did they really tell you that women are incapable of lifting boxes, and should abstain from physical exertion based on their physiology? What physiology is that, exactly? Should I start posting photos of weightlifting women that could bench press YOU!?!

You should, probably, repeat your anatomy course and physiology as well 😀 to refresh the differences between bone length and muscle mass in females and males( and simple strength of those muscles as a result) plus the influence of different hormones on the body function, muscles included. (A quick peek into physics to remind why the bone length and muscle mass will play a role in lifting may help as well)
I guess these obvious differences have to be reminded after receiving an American medical education.
Or were they simply skipped in the anatomy course for PC reasons?


Women are capable of lifting boxes which doesn't mean they should be required to lift boxes - feel the difference.

 

[Bertelman]

woman should not lift heavy boxes even if she is not pregnant. And it was you who actually asked the woman's perspective on the issue, or didn't you:

I was asking for a woman's perspective on traveling in a car for three days while pregnant. I know better than to ask a pregnant woman to lift a box. Sheez.

should, probably, repeat your anatomy course and physiology as well 😀 to refresh the differences between bone length and muscle mass in females and males( and simple strength of those muscles as a result) plus the influence of different hormones on the body function, muscles included. (A quick peek into physics to remind why the bone length and muscle mass will play a role in lifting may help as well)
I guess these obvious differences have to be reminded after receiving an American medical education.
Or were they simply skipped in the anatomy course for PC reasons?

Women are capable of lifting boxes which doesn't mean they should be required to lift boxes - feel the difference.

Men do indeed have greater absolute strength than women, but the difference in LE strength is somewhere around 30%. Anyone who has lifted a box can tell you it's all in the legs. So, if you want to argue that men should be lifting the heaviest 30% of boxes, then fine. When muscle mass is accounted for there is NO DIFFERENCE in strength. Your comment about bone length is confusing. Do women have shorter bones? how is that possible? Or are you just saying women are on average shorter than men. Because if that's the case, you are also saying taller people are stronger. If a women is taller than her man, should SHE be lifting the boxes? What about same-sex couples? Do they hire men to move their boxes for them?

As for hormones, there is is no magic lady hormone that precludes you from lifting a box. Men do have more testosterone, which allows them more muscle mass gain over time. Acknowledging that one sex is better at a task should not preclude the other sex from doing the same task.

So here's your original quote. You really think women should not lift boxes- heavy or otherwise? YOU may not be "very good in lifting boxes", but there are hundreds of thousands of women that lift boxes every day, whether they work in restaurants, post offices, grocery stores, home improvement stores, or wherever. You may not agree with "American crazy feminism", but you're here (I'm assuming). And one thing women understand is that when you ask for equality, you have to pull an equal weight. That includes lifting boxes from time to time, occasionally heavy ones.

Actually, if you are a woman, you are not very good in lifting boxes and should not be doing so anyway - pregnant or not pregnant.

 

[michigangirl]

No matter what anyone says, the massive bulk of taking care of a newborn falls the mom-- YOU-- especially if you're breastfeeding, no matter how awesome your spouse is. Sure, it's easier to take the boards and study when you have ZERO kids- you do it whenever you want, however you want. everything is easier. Here's my perspective--and this is just me, but as a female physician with two kids, I hope to come at it from your perspective--

My husband took the Bar when we had a one month old. One would argue that the bar is much more study specific and that law school doesn't really prepare you at all for a specific bar. sure it was hard, but he just holed himself up at the library or in the basement and did his thing. I took my pediatric boards when we had a six month old. And my anesthesia written boards with a 3 year old and 10 month old (take having a newborn X 20). now i'm taking my oral boards with a 4 year old and in the terrible twos 22 month old. It's doable. hopefully I'll pass ;-)

Now if your husband is the type who doesn't do well with any distractions and needs to have cram in the last month for a big exam like this, putting it off 1-2 months isn't a biggie. But there's always a reason to put it off-- and then you don't know how long it'll take to actually conceive and voila, you're at oral boards time...you know what I mean.

I'm not trying to say he's being silly because of his request. Simply saying it's doable. And there will always be reasons to put it off. But life is short. if he paid any attention during residency, does the high yield study stuff 3 months in advance, he'll be golden. Good luck. Feel free to PM me.

 

[hoyden]

I was asking for a woman's perspective on traveling in a car for three days while pregnant. I know better than to ask a pregnant woman to lift a box. Sheez.

You are lying now.

This is not what is obvious from your own words(even if you are trying to change it) - you were asking if it will be easier to lift a box at 6 month pregnancy instead of 7 from woman's perspective :

You may not think you can lift a box 7 mo pregnant, but neither can you lift one while carrying an infant. I think if you were ~6 mo pregnant for the move, it would be doable, but I guess a woman should be commenting on that.

Men do indeed have greater absolute strength than women, but the difference in LE strength is somewhere around 30%. Anyone who has lifted a box can tell you it's all in the legs. So, if you want to argue that men should be lifting the heaviest 30% of boxes, then fine. When muscle mass is accounted for there is NO DIFFERENCE in strength. Your comment about bone length is confusing. Do women have shorter bones? how is that possible?

read how it is possible :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1894753/

Other significant differences between male and female skeletons are that female bones are usually lighter and thinner than more robust male bones; female head bones are smaller and more lightly built; and the female pelvis is shallower and wider than the male's. This latter difference makes childbirth easier.


ttp://books.google.com/books?id=a8MYLJX_nK4C&pg=PA496&dq=male+and+female+differences+in+long+bone+length+and+density&hl=en&ei=5lSWTNGvCYKBlAengMGnCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false and many-many more.
Inless you are just being a stubborn alpha male in denial 😉 it is hard to imagine that you do not KNOW all those listed above and everywhere else basic differences 🙄

Or are you just saying women are on average shorter than men. Because if that's the case, you are also saying taller people are stronger. If a women is taller than her man, should SHE be lifting the boxes? What about same-sex couples? Do they hire men to move their boxes for them?

As for hormones, there is is no magic lady hormone that precludes you from lifting a box. Men do have more testosterone, which allows them more muscle mass gain over time. Acknowledging that one sex is better at a task should not preclude the other sex from doing the same task.

Testosterone increases a muscle mass --> increases the cross section of the muscle( therefore - the amount of effective miosin fibers) adds to the strength of it. You obviously do not know physics at all ( which is not unusual given the standard amount of hours you have to study physics in American school), but you may want to read how the length of a lever shoulder affects the amount of work required to lift that lever and how it reflects on the fulcrum 😀
Since you also obviously are pretending not to understand that ability to do something is not an equivalent for a requirement to do so I will just repeat what I said before - women are ABLE to lift boxes, but should not be REQUIRED to do so - feel the difference.

So here's your original quote. You really think women should not lift boxes- heavy or otherwise? YOU may not be "very good in lifting boxes", but there are hundreds of thousands of women that lift boxes every day, whether they work in restaurants, post offices, grocery stores, home improvement stores, or wherever. You may not agree with "American crazy feminism", but you're here (I'm assuming). And one thing women understand is that when you ask for equality, you have to pull an equal weight. That includes lifting boxes from time to time, occasionally heavy ones.

Yes, I do think they should not be REQUIRED to lift heavy boxes and if they do - that's their choice and obviously I do not agree with American crazy feminism which is more concerned about the woman's right to lift heavy boxes, despite their anatomical and physiological differences not predisposing them to do so, instead of concern to extend and guarantee appropriate maternity leave BEFORE and after the birth of a child.

 

[hoyden]

Just one more addition to all of the above mentioned anatomical and physiological differences reflecting on the ability of males vs females to perform heavy strenuous duties - if there are no existing differences and we are so identical why aren't there any combined sports competitions and everything is gender divided - running, skiing, swimming, tennis, volleyball, soccer, you name it - everything?
And why aren't there any female football teams on a national scale - or is it the next frontier for the American feminism? 😀

 

[pgg]

if there are no existing differences and we are so identical why aren't there any combined sports competitions and everything is gender divided - running, skiing, swimming, tennis, volleyball, soccer, you name it - everything?

Chess?

😉

 

[hoyden]

Chess?

😉

🙂

but it is also divided by genders - and THIS one I am strongly opposed 😉

 

[Qex]

.

 

[periopdoc]

And why aren't there any female football teams on a national scale - or is it the next frontier for the American feminism? 😀

There are or haven't you heard http://www.lflus.com/.

Unfortunately it looks like the Mist, like most Seattle teams, aren't going anywhere this year.

- pod

 

[Bertelman]

Just one more addition to all of the above mentioned anatomical and physiological differences reflecting on the ability of males vs females to perform heavy strenuous duties - if there are no existing differences and we are so identical why aren't there any combined sports competitions and everything is gender divided - running, skiing, swimming, tennis, volleyball, soccer, you name it - everything?
And why aren't there any female football teams on a national scale - or is it the next frontier for the American feminism? 😀

You're changing your argument. You stated women should not lift boxes, because they are not as good at doing so as men. Carrying that forward to the above analogy, what you would then say is women should play none of those sports, or really sports at all, because they are not as good as men.

Are you ready to make that statement, or are your prepared to back down and say that every once in a while (maybe not in your house) it's really OK for a woman to lift a box?

 

[Bertelman]

You are lying now.

This is not what is obvious from your own words(even if you are trying to change it) - you were asking if it will be easier to lift a box at 6 month pregnancy instead of 7 from woman's perspective :

I am not lying, and I was not asking about lifting boxes. I said " 6 mo pregnant for the move", as in the actual move, as in sitting in a car, strapped down, for three days. That's moving. This silly argument we have about boxes is called packing and loading.
...
Other significant differences between male and female skeletons are that female bones are usually lighter and thinner than more robust male bones;

Why are you now talking about bone mass? Your original statement said "to refresh the differences between bone length and muscle mass"

You obviously do not know physics at all ( which is not unusual given the standard amount of hours you have to study physics in American school), but you may want to read how the length of a lever shoulder affects the amount of work required to lift that lever and how it reflects on the fulcrum 😀
Since you also obviously are pretending not to understand that ability to do something is not an equivalent for a requirement to do so I will just repeat what I said before - women are ABLE to lift boxes, but should not be REQUIRED to do so - feel the difference.

No, this is what you said: "Actually, if you are a woman, you are not very good in lifting boxes and should not be doing so anyway"

And you may want to check your knowledge of physics (and your non-U.S. educated pride). By mentioning levers, I assume you are referring to the biceps muscle, which would be involved in lifting a box.

Levers of the Third Class.
Here the effort lies between the fulcrum and the load. In our bodies, an example of a lever of the third class is when the biceps contracts, allowing us to lift something in our hand. The elbow is the fulcrum, the hand and its contents are the resistance (or load) and the biceps muscles creates the effort. The load can be moved rapidly over a large distance, while the point of application moves over a relatively short distance. The main purpose of this type of lever is to obtain rapid movement. There is no mechanical advantage because the effort is greater than the load.

So, basically, there is no mechanical advantage of lever LENGTH with a class 3 lever. Actually, a longer arm would extend the box away from the body's center of gravity, and may indeed make it more difficult to lift. The more I think of it, the perfect mover would be short and stocky. Taller movers would require more force to lift the boxes higher distances. A short, stocky mover might be best. Sounds like a woman's job. They have shorter bones, right?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
.

 

[dhb]

My bone is bigger than yours

 

[hoyden]

You're changing your argument. You stated women should not lift boxes, because they are not as good at doing so as men. Carrying that forward to the above analogy, what you would then say is women should play none of those sports, or really sports at all, because they are not as good as men.

Are you ready to make that statement, or are your prepared to back down and say that every once in a while (maybe not in your house) it's really OK for a woman to lift a box?

So you are not denying anymore that men and women differ significantly anatomically and physiologically and therefore women are not suited to lift heavy boxes? Good.

I am not changing anything - you have just lost the arguments and are not strong enough to admit you were wrong and unnecessarily RUDE( oh, well)))) - as I have stated from the very first post on the issue - women SHOULD not lift boxes - pregnant or not., because they are not very good on that ( in other words - not anatomically predisposed to do so). Period 😀 Or should I provide my own quotes in bold and red?

p.s. If, by any chance, you somehow will suspect that I mean lifting a box with a new pair( single!) of shoes - then I will better clarify it beforehand - no, it is not the box I meant form the very beginning

 

[hoyden]

Levers of the Third Class.
Here the effort lies between the fulcrum and the load. In our bodies, an example of a lever of the third class is when the biceps contracts, allowing us to lift something in our hand. The elbow is the fulcrum, the hand and its contents are the resistance (or load) and the biceps muscles creates the effort. The load can be moved rapidly over a large distance, while the point of application moves over a relatively short distance. The main purpose of this type of lever is to obtain rapid movement. There is no mechanical advantage because the effort is greater than the load.

So, basically, there is no mechanical advantage of lever LENGTH with a class 3 lever. Actually, a longer arm would extend the box away from the body's center of gravity, and may indeed make it more difficult to lift. The more I think of it, the perfect mover would be short and stocky. Taller movers would require more force to lift the boxes higher distances. A short, stocky mover might be best. Sounds like a woman's job. They have shorter bones, right?[/COLOR]

Men do indeed have greater absolute strength than women, but the difference in LE strength is somewhere around 30%. Anyone who has lifted a box can tell you it's all in the legs.

And it is. Which makes the fulcrum far away from the elbow, not to even mention that it is a plain first order lever if you are lifting a box from the ground - not a box with a single pair of shoes

 

[Bertelman]

This must be the crack you are smoking that makes you believe you have done anything other than digging a 10-ft hole in the ground with your remarkably nonsensical, contradictory and sexist posts you have provided in this thread. I will end with a quote from quite possibly one of the top 5 movies of all time.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[hoyden]

I guess I may declare a victory, since your mumbling above is a clear sign of surrender

So long, for the next week I have a lot to do.

 

[sevoflurane]

.

 

[Bertelman]

I guess I may declare a victory, since your mumbling above is a clear sign of surrender

So long, for the next week I have a lot to do.

In case you were unaware, you just participated in an anonymous internet argument.

We're both losers.

p.s. if you're still reading this, you may want to brush up on lever physics after your orals; you really don't understand what you don't know