'Back-Door' Clinical Psychology?

[PsychoDynamo]

Hi there, long-time listener, first-time caller.

Here's a hypothetical dilemma, what would you do?

School A) Very strong reputation, decent research fit. Good geo. location, full funding, good stipend. You have an offer of admissions for Clinical Psychology PhD. It's your second choice.

School B) Strong reputation, perfect research fit. Bad geo. location. But it's your top choice, full-funding, amazing stipend (15K more a year). However, you won't be admitted to the clinical program, only to the regular psych PhD.

However, the school in past years has allowed some students to take the clinical courses, and then after the first year, the clinical faculty vote to allow you to take practica and eventually become a full-fledged clinical psych PhD. The courseload isn't any different than if you had an offer for the clinical program from the beginning. In essence, you're a 'back-door' clinical student for the first year and taking a risk as to whether they let you sign on, depending on your academic and research performance, and ability to get the faculty to like you.

So what would you do? Play it safe at School A or take the risk at School B?

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[Psyclops]

That's a tough one. Its hard to say without knowing more. How strong of reputations are you talking about? I only ask because it is exceedinngly rare to make the lateral jump into the clinical program.

 

[Psyclops]

My gut feeling is to say play it safe, hit the ground running knowing you are in the program you want to be in and enjoy it. If you go to the other program, will you be able to work with the faculty member of your choice? Or will that be another hurdle once you get there?

Ultimately, it does sound like you can't really go wron, you are in an enviable position. Congrats.

 

[PsychoDynamo]

I'd say both are top 10, school A being on the higher end of that list. Yes, the advisor is available at school B and would help lobby to make the transition, but no gaurantees.

 

[Psyclops]

Then gamble. Geographic location shouldn't matter, money always does though, 15 isn't bad, I take it A offers considerably less, and if it's in a good geographic location then it will be even less, and 15 will be even more in a bad location. Is that making sense? I think the thing to be worried about is will you be competeing with other applicants the next year? And are you charming? Because that will matter.

 

[PsychoDynamo]

Let's put it this way:

School A offers about 14-18K, which barely covers rent and food.
School B offers free housing, free food, + 20K. (so you probably end up 15K ahead each year financially)

I'm not sure if I'd be competing with other applicants the following year. I'm just very risk-averse when it comes to these things. I'd keel over and die if for some reason I wasn't admitted to the full clinical program after a year. Can one transfer mid-grad-school?

 

[Psyclops]

wow, had I'd known about B's package I would have applied there. Are either offering a fellowship, or just graduate assistantships? Not putting down GAs just asking?

 

[PsychoDynamo]

.

 

[PsychoDynamo]

It's not the psych department, its the school that offers an RA position for supervising the undergrads in the dorms in exchange for free housing/food. The stipends are pretty similar actually, its just the RA thing makes a big difference in terms of the bottom-line.

 

[Psyclops]

Would you really want to do that? Do you have to do that? Depending on the school, I guess, the dorms might not be a place a grad student would want to live. Something to think about. Also, about ranking, I wouldn't take that into account either. Ranking of clinical psych programs doesn't really exist, there are some general rules of thumb but it would be impossible to say a is better than b espcially if they are that close, top 10 as you say.

 

[joetro]

Are you guaranteed to be a resident assistant, or will you have to apply? These positions are very competitive at my school.

 

[Psyclops]

Would people really want to be RAs during grad school? I think I would rather should debt.

 

[PsychoDynamo]

The RA offer is already on the table. No I don't have to, but I think it's a great gig. It's not very time-intensive and I probably make back the time by not having to cook. I don't mind living in dorms, I can walk to class.

Anyway, bottom-line, I save 15K a year. I don't know if its worth the risk though. Murphy's Law has not been good to me.

 

[joetro]

I guess I'd wonder if you could fit the RA position in with your school, pratica, research, etc. What if you have to run subjects often late at night and can't be in the dorm? What happens when you travel for intership interviews or to conferences? What if you'd rather buy a house/condo so you can build equity? What if you meet someone and move in with them?

I'd say A, but you are really choosing between 2 good options.

 

[PsychoDynamo]

Running subjects? How often do grad students do this? At my school, grad students rarely run subjects, they farm it out to undergrad lackeys like myself whom they bribe with course credit and the promise of future admissions to graduate school.

 

[Psyclops]

My freshman year of college, man the crap RAs had to deal with, when was the last time you lived in the dorms? Remember the kid who pees on his roommates face while he is sleeping because you will have to deal with him, and you're right, because of murphy's law it will be the night before your comprehensive exams.

 

[PsychoDynamo]

Haha. My current school has some grad students who are RAs. They literally do nothing. Every few weeks, they throw a pizza party and make nice.

 

[psypsypsy]

Congrats on getting into two great programs! In terms of the choice between 2 graduate schools, I'd be scared to not go directly into a clinical program, if that is what you want. Does everyone who wants into the clinical program at School B get in?

I would say, if you are 100% sure that you want a clinical degree, go to school A. If you think your plan is to do academic research, but you'd just prefer it in the clinical realm vs. other (developmental, etc), then I think B is more of a valid option. I think it's very tricky to switch grad schools mid-stream, and you would have to prepare for staying at B in the current program.

Also...someone above said geography shouldn't matter, and I have to disagree with that. While match, program fit are certainly much more important, you are picking a place you are going to be living in for a good 5 years. That's a large part of your life, and I'd make sure I felt like I could have some semblance of a social life and be happy where I was.

 

[DrPsy]

Say you go to school b, and you can't get into clinical. Where will you be in ten years?

Where will you be in ten years if you go to school a?

 

[Psyclops]

I want to speak up on behalf of gradute assitants everywhere, it may seem like we don't do anything to undergrads, but don't bet on it. Just like grad students tend to have no idea with the goings on about campus making them seem like complete idiots, the undergrads have no idea what grad students do with all of thier time. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[LM02]

That extra $15k may have a lot of strings attached. Even if you really didn't have to do much in the dorms, you also have to consider the noise and debauchery. Just picture yourself trying to do work with the loud music, drunk kids, and having to deal with someone who just discharged the fire extinguisher - AGAIN.

The above scenario was pretty typical when I was in college, and would not have been tolerable to me as a graduate student.

 

[SaraL124]

School A, no question. Why take the risk? Have you thought about what you would do if you weren't accepted to the Clinical program?


Why in the hell anyone would ever want to be an RA as a graduate student is beyond me. I understand the money may be enticing, but honestly, think of everything you'd be giving up....having friends over to a civilized apartment or house, being able to cook for yourself, being able to do anything whenever you want without worrying about setting an example, being able to sleep through the night.....Friends of mine who were RAs in college also had to be "on duty" several nights a month and one full weekend a month. It really cut down on their ability to be spontaneous.

 

[Psyclops]

It would be attrocious....

 

[clinpsychgirl]

The insiders guide (atleast in my really outdated version) talks a bit about how increasingly difficult (and unethical) back door routes to clinical psychology are becoming. I wouldn't risk it if I were you.

 

[SaraL124]

I can barely stand teaching my undergrads once a week, I could never imagine living with them!

 

[psychanon]

Living in a college dorm may seem OK now (I'm guess you're either straight out of undergrad or just a year or two out?), but give it a couple years and I bet it will get old fast...you may become seriously involved with a significant other, or want to get a pet or have more living space, or just not want to sleep every night in an extra-long extra-thin bed with university appropriated furniture and neon lights, with 18 year olds blasting bad music witih lots of bass all night and puking in the shower. I had a grand time in my college dorm living days, but at age 26, the idea of returning to one is appalling. Plus, despite the fact that the undergrads at my school are only 4-8 years younger than me, they might as well be infants for all I can relate to them.

Then again, I once knew a 39 year old GA who loved it-- he was very eccentric, though.

School B sounds sketchy...if they are willing to accept you to their clinical program, why don't they just do so now? Unless the research match at school B is just too amazing to turn down and you are planning a research career that does not necessarily require clinical training, I'd go with choice A. School A's financial package is enough to keep you afloat with minimal or no loans, and that's all you need-- you're not going to grad school to start saving for retirement, after all.

 

[PsychoDynamo]

I dunno, 18-22 year old women. . .

Lol, Jon Snow gets the best comment of the thread award.

 

[clinpsychgirl]

I can barely stand teaching my undergrads once a week, I could never imagine living with them!

ha... I have a teaching assistantship for first year I hope it's really not that bad!

 

[Dr.JT]

I would no longer consider program B for several reasons. Most importantly this is system is questionable in terms of ethics and you have to consider the integrity of a program that engages in this type of practice. It has the potential to hang students out to dry, which is not fair. It is sort of like playing games with students. How do you think a program like this would treat their students in other situations? A policy like this can tell you volumes about a program.

 

[flanagan10]

I say stick with the actual clinical program, and Heaven's no, don't be an RA. I think that entire idea sounds stupid---both the back door and the RAing. If it was research money, that would be different. I just think it is a bad idea.

 

[lazure]

School A. Get the real clinical deal from the start. I get annoyed by seeing undergrads for one office hour per week, never mind living with them.