BCOM vs. ICOM

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redking

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Aside from subjective preference and gut feelings, I can't see any reason to attend ICOM over BCOM. Cost of living is even higher in Idaho and it's further from home.

Does anyone out there see any advantage to attending ICOM?
 
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Neither school has yet to prove itself worthy of attendance. I’d use cost of attendance as my primary focus, figuring in tuition and regional differences.


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Personally, I really liked ICOM because of their faculty and obviously the brand new facilities will be nice. Being the only school in Idaho I think there should be some good residencies. The only reason I passed was because of the high deposit and chose a more established school.
 
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redking said:
Clearly I am asking because they are my only options. Y our comment adds nothing but negativity and shows off your immaturity.
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I wouldn’t say that was clear at all. Regardless, the purpose of my post wasn’t to slight your ego - both are new schools and nothing is known.

What’s their board pass rate? both unknown

What’s the reputation of their clinical rotations? both unknown

Published match list? both unknown

Neither school has yet to graduate a class. The quality of either school is conjecture at best. What other criteria remains that has a significant impact on your future as a physician? If those questions don’t concern you then I would suggest perhaps you are immature.


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I would trust gut feelings and your subjective preferences over things like tuition. It’s more important to be happy and feel like you belong in med school than saving a little extra money on your loans. Go with your gut to where you think you will be happiest
 
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I think because both of these schools are extremely new it’s very hard for any body to give tangible/objective arguments as to which is a better school (especially since one of them hasn’t even had a first class yet so you can’t even hear from current students cause there’s are none yet). So unfortunately I truly think your best bet is to make your decision based on your own gut feelings of where you would be happiest. Only you can know the answer to that.
 
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Spartan300H said:
I think because both of these schools are extremely new it’s very hard for any body to give tangible/objective arguments as to which is a better school (especially since one of them hasn’t even had a first class yet so you can’t even hear from current students cause there’s are none yet). So unfortunately I truly think your best bet is to make your decision based on your own gut feelings of where you would be happiest. Only you can know the answer to that.
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I agree for the most part, but there are exceptions. I did hear good things about the OMM instructor ICOM stole from another school. So there are some things. Another example would be someone who is familiar with one of the hospitals that will act as one of the clinical rotation sites and how it gets a large volume of trauma's. I know of several rural hospitals in oil and gas areas that regularly get serious trauma's they are remote and serve large geographic areas and transport to larger hospitals is difficult. They would make great training hospitals if they could staff them with decent docs.
 
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redking said:
I didn't take the comment as a slight against me so much as just a frustrating example of what occurs on here far to frequently. People sharing what they want to share and not what the poster requested.

Your second sentence was relevant if overly obvious. Your 1st sentence did not answer the question asked and it added nothing I didn't already know. My question and there was only one "Does anyone out there see any advantage to attending ICOM?" very clearly requests advantages of ICOM over BCOM, (where does the 'over BCOM' part come from? Context in the first 2 sentences). And even if the question was unclear, it does not request you to find and point out negative aspects shared by both schools. Period, end, so clear it's really not up for debate, you can argue that but you'll just look like an idiot if you do. You shared an unrequested elitist/snobbish comment that did nothing to answer the question actually asked. I intentionally phrased my comment for the very purpose of avoiding having people tell me the obvious that I already know, that both schools are new and don't have proven board scores and rotation sites. Geez man you think anyone with acceptances at these schools doesn't already know that? Now your second comment consists entirely of obvious, unrequested shared negatives and nothing that could be construed as a reason to attend ICOM over BCOM. I think you should change your name here to "captain obvious" due to your propensity to share the most obvious facts possible. I fear to ask what you scored on CARS.

Here let me provide some possible examples that actually answer the question.

1. I know professor X who taught at school B, she does an excellent job preparing you for your boards!

2. Based on the lack of competition, ICOM is likely to have better clinical sites.

3. The area around ICOM has a higher demand for physicians, so if you don't mind staying, jobs will be easy to come by and probably offer better pay.

4. ICOM's curriculum is based on school X's curriculum while BCOM's curriculum is most similar to school Y's. School X has has the higher COMLEX pass rate, and it could be due to the curriculum meaning ICOM could have the advantage.

Do you see how these hypotheticals actually answer the question asked and how they provide objective facts for someone to weigh and consider. See Blakeb_212's post as an example if you are still confused.



We do need to be more "professional" on this forum and that doesn't just mean professional in a polite way. It also includes our writing and logic. Read the question asked, answer just the question asked and only if you have relevant and reliable knowledge. There is no need to state the blatantly obvious. Give subjective opinion only if requested. Ask yourself, is this going to be helpful to the poster and only add if you can say yes. In short, stop just throwing up on here.
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Stop being butthurt over a 100% accurate comment. If you’re going into medicine you had better get a much thicker skin.

You honestly want to know what my advice would be? Drop both acceptances and better your app to go to a better school. The attrition at these schools is bad. On top of that the new DO schools are going to be in a world of hurt come match time. So much so that I can’t recommend going to one.

Neither of those schools is worthy of attendance.
 
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redking said:
I agree for the most part, but there are exceptions. I did hear good things about the OMM instructor ICOM stole from another school. So there are some things. Another example would be someone who is familiar with one of the hospitals that will act as one of the clinical rotation sites and how it gets a large volume of trauma's. I know of several rural hospitals in oil and gas areas that regularly get serious trauma's they are remote and serve large geographic areas and transport to larger hospitals is difficult. They would make great training hospitals if they could staff them with decent docs.
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Ill be honest man, it sounds like deep down you want to go to ICOM but you are paranoid that BCOM is the better school and you are desperately searching for someone to give you an objective reason why BCOM is better. But you aren’t getting that objective reason because there really isn’t one (both schools are essentially equivalent in objective quality) and that is frustrating you. I really think you should just go with your gut. Either way you will be a great doctor if you put in the work, what’s most important is that you are happy. You cannot go wrong with choosing what your gut is telling you is the place that will make you the most happy
 
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AnatomyGrey12 said:
You honestly want to know what my advice would be? Drop both acceptances and better your app to go to a better school. The attrition at these schools is bad. On top of that the new DO schools are going to be in a world of hurt come match time. So much so that I can’t recommend going to one.

Neither of those schools is worthy of attendance.
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That opinion completely depends on the career goals of the student. If you wanted to match into a competitive specialty, in a specific location then sure. However, if you wanted to be a family medicine doctor and stay in Idaho/New Mexico, then this isnt the most accurate statement.

This is why OP didnt ask for generic advice. He asked if there is a pro to attending ICOM over BCOM.
 
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Cranjis McBasketball said:
That opinion completely depends on the career goals of the student. If you wanted to match into a competitive specialty, in a specific location then sure. However, if you wanted to be a family medicine doctor and stay in Idaho/New Mexico, then this isnt the most accurate statement.

This is why OP didnt ask for generic advice. He asked if there is a pro to attending ICOM over BCOM.
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Clearly you haven't been paying attention to some of the threads in the medical student forum, there are large attrition rates and poor placement rates at these new schools in their early graduating classes. This is going to get even worse and hundreds and thousands of new, uncompetitive, DO grads flood the system, without even mentioning the growth in MD applicants. I cannot recommend going to a new school at this time. Not unless they are opening enough GME to place their grads. There is a grand total of 2 residencies in Idaho now, and very few in NM outside of UNM's system. This is not promising.
 
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AnatomyGrey12 said:
Clearly you haven't been paying attention to some of the threads in the medical student forum, there are large attrition rates and poor placement rates at these new schools in their early graduating classes. This is going to get even worse and hundreds and thousands of new, uncompetitive, DO grads flood the system, without even mentioning the growth in MD applicants. I cannot recommend going to a new school at this time. Not unless they are opening enough GME to place their grads. There is a grand total of 2 residencies in Idaho now, and very few in NM outside of UNM's system. This is not promising.
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Which schools besides William Carey (which had low support from the general public and state)? For their inaugural classes: ACOM placed 100%, Campbell placed 100%, Marian placed 129 of 131, PNWU placed 100%, and VCOM placed 100%. I dont know much about New Mexico, but I do know that Idaho does not have just 2 residencies. Of the residencies in the state of Idaho, 2 are expanding in the next few years to accept more students than they currently do, and a new Internal Medicine residency program and Emergency Medicine Residency program are starting in the next couple of years. Also, ICOM doesn't just focus on Idaho, but rather the 5 state region of Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, and Idaho.
 
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AnatomyGrey12 said:
Clearly you haven't been paying attention to some of the threads in the medical student forum, there are large attrition rates and poor placement rates at these new schools in their early graduating classes. This is going to get even worse and hundreds and thousands of new, uncompetitive, DO grads flood the system, without even mentioning the growth in MD applicants. I cannot recommend going to a new school at this time. Not unless they are opening enough GME to place their grads. There is a grand total of 2 residencies in Idaho now, and very few in NM outside of UNM's system. This is not promising.
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I think Smurfy D said it all with specific examples for several different schools. I also know that at least until recently, ~25% of residencies have been filled with foreign grads. Spots they would rather fill with state side DO graduates.

Second, professional investors are not going to invest ten's of millions if they are going to lose it. ICOM has a planned return period of 14 years. They wouldn't do that if the residency spots weren't there and they couldn't graduate their students. It wouldn't make business sense.
 
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Cranjis McBasketball said:
Which schools besides William Carey (which had low support from the general public and state)? For their inaugural classes: ACOM placed 100%, Campbell placed 100%, Marian placed 129 of 131, PNWU placed 100%, and VCOM placed 100%. I dont know much about New Mexico, but I do know that Idaho does not have just 2 residencies. Of the residencies in the state of Idaho, 2 are expanding in the next few years to accept more students than they currently do, and a new Internal Medicine residency program and Emergency Medicine Residency program are starting in the next couple of years. Also, ICOM doesn't just focus on Idaho, but rather the 5 state region of Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, and Idaho.
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ACOM has a terrible graduation rate, same with LUCOM, VCOM, and I recently talked to a rotating PWNU student who said the same thing for them. 1/5 DO students had to SOAP/scramble. The farther along we get in the merger the worse this is going to get, with the new schools being hit hardest.

redking said:
Second, professional investors are not going to invest ten's of millions if they are going to lose it. ICOM has a planned return period of 14 years. They wouldn't do that if the residency spots weren't there and they couldn't graduate their students. It wouldn't make business sense.
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Investors don’t need people to match to residencies, they simply need you to pay tuition and for COCA to not shut them down, which won’t happen.

As for residencies preferring DO grads to IMGs we haven’t really seen that, with many former AOA programs interviewing these IMGs en masse. It’s not something I would hang my hat on.

And just as any FYI, COCA has NO placement requirement for COMs. None. It’s not a requirement they have.
 
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I heard BCOM students don't do real dissections, only virtual, simulation-based ones. Isn't this a negative? I've never heard of a med school doing that before :shrug:
 
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mariposas905 said:
I heard BCOM students don't do real dissections, only virtual, simulation-based ones. Isn't this a negative? I've never heard of a med school doing that before :shrug:
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Some people argue it is a good thing since digital imaging is what 90% of all doctors will ever do. If you are interested in surgery they will guarantee you a cadaver in your 4th year as an elective or so I hear. I personally have no desire to go into surgery and would rather spend my time getting really good at reading x-rays and ultra sounds.
 
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AnatomyGrey12 said:
ACOM has a terrible graduation rate, same with LUCOM, VCOM, and I recently talked to a rotating PWNU student who said the same thing for them. 1/5 DO students had to SOAP/scramble. The farther along we get in the merger the worse this is going to get, with the new schools being hit hardest.



Investors don’t need people to match to residencies, they simply need you to pay tuition and for COCA to not shut them down, which won’t happen.

As for residencies preferring DO grads to IMGs we haven’t really seen that, with many former AOA programs interviewing these IMGs en masse. It’s not something I would hang my hat on.

And just as any FYI, COCA has NO placement requirement for COMs. None. It’s not a requirement they have.
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Wait how does PNWU have 100% match rate but terrible graduation rate...? Makes zero sense.
 
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mariposas905 said:
I heard BCOM students don't do real dissections, only virtual, simulation-based ones. Isn't this a negative? I've never heard of a med school doing that before :shrug:
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Actually I think this is a pro. Dissection anatomy is 100% a massive waste of time. I personally would say prosection based is the best way but virtual anatomy would be a decent second.

There are MD schools that do the same. UNLV is an example.

georgia_boy1 said:
Wait how does PNWU have 100% match rate but terrible graduation rate...? Makes zero sense.
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First, match rate isn’t 100%. Second, placement rate only includes people who were eligible to enter the match and seek GME and subsequently applied. 4 yr Graduation rate however, is the number of people who start day 1 of MS1 and how many graduate 4 years later.
 
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I understand that you are probably backed in a corner and will end up attending one of these two schools. If you held a gun to my head and made me choose I would choose BCOM. They a least have shown an extended commitment to starting their own GME. I also think their rotation sites are better.
 
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redking said:
Aside from subjective preference and gut feelings, I can't see any reason to attend ICOM over BCOM. Cost of living is even higher in Idaho and it's further from home.

Does anyone out there see any advantage to attending ICOM?
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I do know from interviewing at BCOM and knowing their director of admissions well that you don't get to choose your rotation site and the sites are awful. Meridian would be a better and safer place to live. The only draw to BCOM is if you want experience in medical spanish. The only rotation sites that would've been bearable and/or offer adequate medical training are Tucson and El Paso. You don't even get a top 5 wish list like ACOM. The school is for-profit and they don't have a cadaver lab. Both schools aren't eligible for federal grants so I would advise you to stay away from either and choose a more established DO school TUNCOM, Touro-CA, Western, Midwestern, Rocky Vista colorado not Ivins, or either pacific northwest DO school. I do not recommend university of the incarnate word (might as well add virgin de guadalupe) on the tail end of that ridiculous school name) or AT STILL -Mesa based on their 1 + 3 curriculum.
 
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