Being called "nurse" ...

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
So I feel kinda frustrated with patients sometimes calling me the nurse or assistant. I've never have had this happen in previous residency training. I definitely look young and I am petite. Even when I introduce myself as Dr. X, it's not infrequent. Even happened today! I introduced myself to Dr. X and stuff and about 4 minutes later, the parent's mom calls me Dr. So and so's assistant. It's so frustrating! I do a great job, my attendings think I do a great job but this really bothers me. It's also not the first time. Do I correct them? Do I tell them hey I'm actually dr. so and so again? Not sure how to deal with it.

your post is the perfect example of why I realized I have nothing in common with ppl here and stopped posting....

why the F would you be frustrated? are you insecure? I can't even remember how many times i've accidentally worn nurse tech scrubs because I was so sleep deprived and just went on my day... hell, I did that just yesterday and got yelled at by a nurse to go wipe someone's a$s! got yelled at again 30 seconds later for not wearing a mask because of c-diff precautions before going into room... 1 minute later got yelled at again by the charge nurse telling me i should know better....

you know what i did? I apologized to both nurses, put on the mask, went into the room, spent 15 minutes or so literally wiping him and cleaning him... the poor guy had to pee. I call another tech and ask him to help me walk him to the bathroom, and I help the guy pee.

i then walk out the room, (btw, it's my pt) take off my mask, tell them my name is rachel, and sorry i wasn't familiar with what a tech does, however, i was on my way to see this pt because i was going to inform you he is c-diff negative x 3 and, and i'm d/cing him back today to his nursing home... and need them to get everything ready by noon (that particular nursing home won't take him back unless it's before noon) and I simply walked away...

in those 30 seconds i was telling them that, pretty much every tech and nurse and physician on the floor were staring at me as I was talking... their mouths wide open, completely speechless as I went back to the doc box to call case management and get the dude back to his nursing home

i can't even BEGIN to tell you how many apologies I got that day... the funny thing is that I "tried" to get offended after so many apologies so that I would look at least somewhat normal... but I just wasn't.. i was straight up with the nurse who yelled at me and came back to apologize to me (with a gift basket)... told her word for word: listen dude, I **** you not that I'm not offended, it's my f'ing pt and i'll do what it takes to get him to where he needs to get at... we're a team...at least 40 apologies in just a few hours to the point where I called the operator and had her start asking why the nurse was paging me, and if it was because the nurse wanted to say sorry, to please tell the nurse that rachel doesn't give 2 f's and that it's all good and I'm busy

when you start a thread about being called "nurse", and what's worse, when you see all these comments basically saying they know "what you're going through"... take a moment, sit down, and remind yourself that we're here for taking care of our patients... stop thinking about yourself... if it meant wiping his butt to get him out before noon, I'd wipe it twice...

Also, for the OP and everyone else, it says MD after your name... not God. stop thinking about yourselves and please start thinking about your patients...

i'm in no way trying to make myself seem better than you are... i'm not... i'm your average country girl who hopes she didn't offend anyone here on this thread...

but if you lose the ego, you may have a chance of being happy someday

hell i wish everyone thought i was a nurse... they'd at least stop catching me in the hallway to ask me some ******ed question about tyelenol or starting/stopping miralax

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
This is something all female physicians face. Being frustrated by it isn't about ego. It's partly about sexism- because, often the male medical students are seen as doctors.

But the biggest problem is the patient needs to understand everyone's roles. More than once, I've seen situations were patients complain the haven't been seen by a doctor, when, in fact, they have.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
your post is the perfect example of why I realized I have nothing in common with ppl here and stopped posting....

why the F would you be frustrated? are you insecure? I can't even remember how many times i've accidentally worn nurse tech scrubs because I was so sleep deprived and just went on my day... hell, I did that just yesterday and got yelled at by a nurse to go wipe someone's a$s! got yelled at again 30 seconds later for not wearing a mask because of c-diff precautions before going into room... 1 minute later got yelled at again by the charge nurse telling me i should know better....

you know what i did? I apologized to both nurses, put on the mask, went into the room, spent 15 minutes or so literally wiping him and cleaning him... the poor guy had to pee. I call another tech and ask him to help me walk him to the bathroom, and I help the guy pee.

i then walk out the room, (btw, it's my pt) take off my mask, tell them my name is rachel, and sorry i wasn't familiar with what a tech does, however, i was on my way to see this pt because i was going to inform you he is c-diff negative x 3 and, and i'm d/cing him back today to his nursing home... and need them to get everything ready by noon (that particular nursing home won't take him back unless it's before noon) and I simply walked away...

in those 30 seconds i was telling them that, pretty much every tech and nurse and physician on the floor were staring at me as I was talking... their mouths wide open, completely speechless as I went back to the doc box to call case management and get the dude back to his nursing home

i can't even BEGIN to tell you how many apologies I got that day... the funny thing is that I "tried" to get offended after so many apologies so that I would look at least somewhat normal... but I just wasn't.. i was straight up with the nurse who yelled at me and came back to apologize to me (with a gift basket)... told her word for word: listen dude, I **** you not that I'm not offended, it's my f'ing pt and i'll do what it takes to get him to where he needs to get at... we're a team...at least 40 apologies in just a few hours to the point where I called the operator and had her start asking why the nurse was paging me, and if it was because the nurse wanted to say sorry, to please tell the nurse that rachel doesn't give 2 f's and that it's all good and I'm busy

when you start a thread about being called "nurse", and what's worse, when you see all these comments basically saying they know "what you're going through"... take a moment, sit down, and remind yourself that we're here for taking care of our patients... stop thinking about yourself... if it meant wiping his butt to get him out before noon, I'd wipe it twice...

Also, for the OP and everyone else, it says MD after your name... not God. stop thinking about yourselves and please start thinking about your patients...

i'm in no way trying to make myself seem better than you are... i'm not... i'm your average country girl who hopes she didn't offend anyone here on this thread...

but if you lose the ego, you may have a chance of being happy someday

hell i wish everyone thought i was a nurse... they'd at least stop catching me in the hallway to ask me some ******ed question about tyelenol or starting/stopping miralax
Just to be clear, are you a doc? Honestly, I can't tell from your post. I so very vaguely recall your user name, but, with apologies, I do not recall more.
 
Just to be clear, are you a doc? Honestly, I can't tell from your post. I so very vaguely recall your user name, but, with apologies, I do not recall more.
If you weren't such a self-righteous, God-complexed MALE physician, you'd be able to conclude that of course she is. Clearly, no mere nurse or CNA would or could have written that post. :smuggrin:

All kidding and random internet diatribes aside, I do have to agree that anyone whose sense of self-identity or self-worth is so affected by the ignorance of random people (especially laymen in the hospital who may not even be firing on all cylinders, or else why would they be in the hospital in the first place?) to the point of "frustration" has some other issue going on. Or maybe I just don't get why this "problem" is worth being bothered about. Be that as it may, my feeling is that I have enough "real" issues to worry about at work. This kind of thing doesn't merit a place in the pantheon of competing concerns for my time and attention.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
If you weren't such a self-righteous, God-complexed MALE physician, you'd be able to conclude that of course she is. Clearly, no mere nurse or CNA would or could have written that post. :smuggrin:

All kidding and random internet diatribes aside, I do have to agree that anyone whose sense of self-identity or self-worth is so affected by the ignorance of random people (especially laymen in the hospital who may not even be firing on all cylinders, or else why would they be in the hospital in the first place?) to the point of "frustration" has some other issue going on. Or maybe I just don't get why this "problem" is worth being bothered about. Be that as it may, my feeling is that I have enough "real" issues to worry about at work. This kind of thing doesn't merit a place in the pantheon of competing concerns for my time and attention.
I've always loved your replies

right on - we have more things to worry about
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
If you weren't such a self-righteous, God-complexed MALE physician, you'd be able to conclude that of course she is. Clearly, no mere nurse or CNA would or could have written that post. :smuggrin:

All kidding and random internet diatribes aside, I do have to agree that anyone whose sense of self-identity or self-worth is so affected by the ignorance of random people (especially laymen in the hospital who may not even be firing on all cylinders, or else why would they be in the hospital in the first place?) to the point of "frustration" has some other issue going on. Or maybe I just don't get why this "problem" is worth being bothered about. Be that as it may, my feeling is that I have enough "real" issues to worry about at work. This kind of thing doesn't merit a place in the pantheon of competing concerns for my time and attention.

I agree that there are bigger things in life to worry about, but we're posting on SDN so none of us are taking on life's big challenges at the moment. However, being treated differently because of automatic assumptions people make because you're female is a problem, and I'm not sure it's cool to shame women for being bugged by it (which is essentially what your post is doing). Female physicians earn less money than male physicians even when you account for specialty choices and part-time versus full-time work -- should we stop speaking up about that, too?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I agree that there are bigger things in life to worry about, but we're posting on SDN so none of us are taking on life's big challenges at the moment. However, being treated differently because of automatic assumptions people make because you're female is a problem, and I'm not sure it's cool to shame women for being bugged by it (which is essentially what your post is doing). Female physicians earn less money than male physicians even when you account for specialty choices and part-time versus full-time work -- should we stop speaking up about that, too?
I think you're giving my post a lot more power than it has earned or deserves, not to mention reading way more into it than is warranted. I wasn't arguing that a female doc upset over being called a nurse ought to be "shamed." Nor was I talking about capital L "Life." I'm just saying that I have so many other, more stressful/important things to worry about at work (like, I don't know, doing my work), that I can't manage to muster up too much angst over some ignoramus opening their mouth and displaying their stupidity for all the world to see. I suppose it's also fair to say that I'm misanthropic enough to expect that a large percentage of the people I interact with at work are going to be ignorant, Axis II, or otherwise unpleasant to deal with at baseline. A receiving hospital is not a social club; I get paid to interact with and take care of difficult people that other docs don't want to deal with. So it's not exactly a shock to me when some of these people live down to my expectations. Nor do I care enough about what they think that it hurts my feelings if they don't (gasp) recognize my godly physician qualities because of my gender. :shrug:

Basically I'm arguing in favor of OP and others like her to develop a thicker skin, and not personalize/internalize this kind of stuff so much. Because what these people think about female physicians really doesn't matter unless she lets it matter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Was taking the elevator in the hospital the other day wearing scrubs and a white coat. There was a mother with her two young children on the elevator with me and the daughter looks at me and asks "mommy is she a nurse?" Her mother responds "well she could be a doctor." Put a smile on my face :)
Great post - thank you @Amazonian Lily.
 
I think you're giving my post a lot more power than it has earned or deserves, not to mention reading way more into it than is warranted. I wasn't arguing that a female doc upset over being called a nurse ought to be "shamed." Nor was I talking about capital L "Life." I'm just saying that I have so many other, more stressful/important things to worry about at work (like, I don't know, doing my work), that I can't manage to muster up too much angst over some ignoramus opening their mouth and displaying their stupidity for all the world to see. I suppose it's also fair to say that I'm misanthropic enough to expect that a large percentage of the people I interact with at work are going to be ignorant, Axis II, or otherwise unpleasant to deal with at baseline. A receiving hospital is not a social club; I get paid to interact with and take care of difficult people that other docs don't want to deal with. So it's not exactly a shock to me when some of these people live down to my expectations. Nor do I care enough about what they think that it hurts my feelings if they don't (gasp) recognize my godly physician qualities because of my gender. :shrug:

Basically I'm arguing in favor of OP and others like her to develop a thicker skin, and not personalize/internalize this kind of stuff so much. Because what these people think about female physicians really doesn't matter unless she lets it matter.

I agree that we all (usually) have bigger and better things to worry about.

But I think that it is bothersome because it highlights other people's biases and prejudices, and puts it right in our face.

Most people have an innate optimism/sense of denial and would probably prefer to think that most people have moved past the "old days" where men were doctors and women were nurses. It can be jarring to be reminded of how naïve it is to think that.

To put it another way, if you were a Hispanic male medical student, and someone called you the janitor, would you still be upset? Or if you were a black female physician and someone assumed that you were a worker from the cafeteria, wouldn't that continue to bother you for a while?

I'm mostly thinking out loud here. Thoughts?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I agree that we all (usually) have bigger and better things to worry about.

But I think that it is bothersome because it highlights other people's biases and prejudices, and puts it right in our face.

Most people have an innate optimism/sense of denial and would probably prefer to think that most people have moved past the "old days" where men were doctors and women were nurses. It can be jarring to be reminded of how naïve it is to think that.

To put it another way, if you were a Hispanic male medical student, and someone called you the janitor, would you still be upset? Or if you were a black female physician and someone assumed that you were a worker from the cafeteria, wouldn't that continue to bother you for a while?

I'm mostly thinking out loud here. Thoughts?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile
As a student, I have a resident who is younger than me and female, we had a patient start to address me the other day as we entered the room and look confused when the doc started talking. Actually looked at me for confirmation when the doc said out loud, "I get it, I look really young, but I'm an actual doctor". She's a total boss clearly established dominance in the room by knowing her stuff like crazy during the interview but I could tell it bothered her a bit. Not exactly on the level of women's suffrage or human trafficking but it exists and isn't cool.
 
As a student, I have a resident who is younger than me and female, we had a patient start to address me the other day as we entered the room and look confused when the doc started talking. Actually looked at me for confirmation when the doc said out loud, "I get it, I look really young, but I'm an actual doctor". She's a total boss clearly established dominance in the room by knowing her stuff like crazy during the interview but I could tell it bothered her a bit. Not exactly on the level of women's suffrage or human trafficking but it exists and isn't cool.
The "a bit" part is key. The op was talking about changing careers because of it which is taking things too far. Polite correction followed by a dazzling display of your medical competence is the best way to deal with things in the moment because it addresses those biases whereas getting so frustrated by it that you don't do a good job just reinforces their prejudice. Of course how people post here is no indication of what they do in life so perhaps i read too much into the venting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
The "a bit" part is key. The op was talking about changing careers because of it which is taking things too far. Polite correction followed by a dazzling display of your medical competence is the best way to deal with things in the moment because it addresses those biases whereas getting so frustrated by it that you don't do a good job just reinforces their prejudice. Of course how people post here is no indication of what they do in life so perhaps i read too much into the venting.
Yeah that resident chose the path of "be undeniably qualified"
 
I agree that we all (usually) have bigger and better things to worry about.

But I think that it is bothersome because it highlights other people's biases and prejudices, and puts it right in our face.

Most people have an innate optimism/sense of denial and would probably prefer to think that most people have moved past the "old days" where men were doctors and women were nurses. It can be jarring to be reminded of how naïve it is to think that.

To put it another way, if you were a Hispanic male medical student, and someone called you the janitor, would you still be upset? Or if you were a black female physician and someone assumed that you were a worker from the cafeteria, wouldn't that continue to bother you for a while?

I'm mostly thinking out loud here. Thoughts?
I'm not an optimist when it comes to the ignorance of the general populace. So if you're asking me, I'd say you could easily find someone to say/do something to offend or insult you no matter what race/gender/religion you are. The world is chock full of bigots and other a**hats who aren't really interested in being enlightened. You have no control over someone else's words or actions, but you do have control over your own reactions. Internalizing that stuff and taking it personally means you give that person power over you. Me? I'd rather just roll my eyes and get on with my day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
To put it another way, if you were a Hispanic male medical student, and someone called you the janitor, would you still be upset? Or if you were a black female physician and someone assumed that you were a worker from the cafeteria, wouldn't that continue to bother you for a while?

People have a right to their feelings because after a lifetime of stereotypes, it just gets incredible old! But being stereotyped never ceases to be annoying, especially if/when your colleagues don't stick up for you.

And I'm especially tired of women ALWAYS being told to just "suck things up"!
 
People have a right to their feelings because after a lifetime of stereotypes, it just gets incredible old! But being stereotyped never ceases to be annoying, especially if/when your colleagues don't stick up for you.

And I'm especially tired of women ALWAYS being told to just "suck things up"!
FWIW, I know smq and I can easily think of 3 reasons why she is probably regularly stereotyped.

Just saying. Not disagreeing with you at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Female physicians earn less money than male physicians even when you account for specialty choices and part-time versus full-time work -- should we stop speaking up about that, too?

Source?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

The gender pay-gap in medicine is basically impossible to "prove", because there's always something else you can potentially control for. This, for example, is a reference to a recent article about gender pay gap amongst academic physicians, and that one seemed to persist even after adjusting for "age, experience, specialty, faculty rank, and measures of research productivity and clinical revenue". That said, they still didn't have access to hours worked, so you could argue that's the reason the wage gap persisted.

There's other articles looking at survey data (that includes hours worked) or medicare billing, but none of them can adjust for everything because data detailed enough to adjust for everything you can ever think of just doesn't exist. I'd hazard to guess that there is some bias, particularly in employed positions (which would be congruent with research of gender pay gaps in general), but a number of the research methodologies have over-estimated just how much there is (ex: medicare billing is a flat $ for # RVUs worked determined on a federal level, there's no possible way that a gender pay gap there can be reflective of anything except # patients seen/hour, # hours worked, or aggressiveness in coding).

Read the JAMA IM article's introduction and discussion for a bunch of the references to the above.
 
The gender pay-gap in medicine is basically impossible to "prove", because there's always something else you can potentially control for. This, for example, is a reference to a recent article about gender pay gap amongst academic physicians, and that one seemed to persist even after adjusting for "age, experience, specialty, faculty rank, and measures of research productivity and clinical revenue". That said, they still didn't have access to hours worked, so you could argue that's the reason the wage gap persisted.

There's other articles looking at survey data (that includes hours worked) or medicare billing, but none of them can adjust for everything because data detailed enough to adjust for everything you can ever think of just doesn't exist. I'd hazard to guess that there is some bias, particularly in employed positions (which would be congruent with research of gender pay gaps in general), but a number of the research methodologies have over-estimated just how much there is (ex: medicare billing is a flat $ for # RVUs worked determined on a federal level, there's no possible way that a gender pay gap there can be reflective of anything except # patients seen/hour, # hours worked, or aggressiveness in coding).

Read the JAMA IM article's introduction and discussion for a bunch of the references to the above.
Nice post. I'll read up. I think the gender wage gap in general population is kind of a blown up issue. With regards to medicine it seems nearly ludicrous to me. The vast majority of payment comes from Medicare/Medicaid and insurance billing. How could this possibly be affected by the chromosomes of the physician.
 
Maybe I'm naive but if you walk into the patients room and introduce yourself as "Dr X" right off the bat, maybe even showing them the badge as you do, can't most of this be nipped in the bud?

Sort of. Sometimes.

But for many female doctors- we've had the experience of going into a room, wearing white coat, introducing ourselves as Dr X, and then, within the next 2-3 minutes, the patient will refer to us as "nurse". Often it's as if the "Doctor" part simply doesn't sink in.

I remember on one of my first rotations in general surgery, I was doing my pre-rounds on the floor in early morning, wearing the same scrubs that all the residents wore, wearing my resident white coat with "Dr X, Department of Surgery" embroidered on it. One of the plastic surgery attendings approached me as if I were one of the nurses about one of his patients. When I told him I was the intern covering Trauma, he became very embarrassed.

Sometimes just the fact that one is female is enough to offset any other clues.

It can be incredibly frustrating. That's why I don't think OP should be berated for venting frustration here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Sort of. Sometimes.

But for many female doctors- we've had the experience of going into a room, wearing white coat, introducing ourselves as Dr X, and then, within the next 2-3 minutes, the patient will refer to us as "nurse". Often it's as if the "Doctor" part simply doesn't sink in.

Every freaking day. Every day. Except when you work in a MH setting, everyone asks if you're the social worker. Patients who I introduce myself to very specifically as Dr then immediately call me by my first name (which they read off my badge as I don't tell them my first name) or Ms. last name if they're trying to be respectful. This doesn't seem to happen to our male psychiatrists. No one asks if they're the social worker or calls them Joe. I actually think it's amazing that male posters here might assume this comes from us not introducing ourselves as the doctor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Nice post. I'll read up. I think the gender wage gap in general population is kind of a blown up issue. With regards to medicine it seems nearly ludicrous to me. The vast majority of payment comes from Medicare/Medicaid and insurance billing. How could this possibly be affected by the chromosomes of the physician.

There was an article recently speculating that women might underbill compared with their male colleagues which means that we do generate less revenue from payers. The salary gap is real, though, and not fully explained by women working parttime or picking lower paid specialties. I also think for salaried positions that women are likely less likely to ask for more money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
There was an article recently speculating that women might underbill compared with their male colleagues which means that we do generate less revenue from payers. The salary gap is real, though, and not fully explained by women working parttime or picking lower paid specialties. I also think for salaried positions that women are likely less likely to ask for more money.

You keep making the bolded claims. What is your source?

And if the reasons are related to underbilling and negotiating worse contracts then it's not really a sexist issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
To all who think that female doctors shouldn't be insulted when patients think we are nurses, or that it's just our ego, or that we should be complemented because that means they think we are "cute" (seriously??)... It's not so much about being seen as a nurse. It's about the fact that, because we aren't white males, that means we couldn't possibly be a doctor.

The recent in flight incident of flight attendants refusing to believe an African American woman is a doctor is shedding light on a society wide problem. I've never been on a fight where assistance was called for, but I have no idea what "credentials" I'm supposed to be carrying to "prove" to a flight attendant that I'm a doctor.

This article lists stories of many female (mostly non-white) physicians who were treated horribly for offering to help an in flight emergency>

http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/blo...2cfb0596a534f15b8b86fa45c308afcb5006f9324e137
 
To all who think that female doctors shouldn't be insulted when patients think we are nurses, or that it's just our ego, or that we should be complemented because that means they think we are "cute" (seriously??)... It's not so much about being seen as a nurse. It's about the fact that, because we aren't white males, that means we couldn't possibly be a doctor.

The recent in flight incident of flight attendants refusing to believe an African American woman is a doctor is shedding light on a society wide problem. I've never been on a fight where assistance was called for, but I have no idea what "credentials" I'm supposed to be carrying to "prove" to a flight attendant that I'm a doctor.

This article lists stories of many female (mostly non-white) physicians who were treated horribly for offering to help an in flight emergency>

http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/blo...2cfb0596a534f15b8b86fa45c308afcb5006f9324e137

i have been on a flight and they asked if anyone was a doctor...they took my word for it...(i was a resident then as well...)

ridiculous what that woman went through...i hope that waitress in the sky gets fired...and i hope that passenger didn't suffer from her stupidity...
 
As I mentioned previously, the stupidity and ignorance of the human race continues to impress me with its omnipresence and varieties of expression. But FWIW, I disagree that there is no ego at work here. Just because you're a doctor and you (maybe) know the most about how to manage a medical emergency versus everyone else on that flight, doesn't make you in charge or grant you the right to start giving orders like you're in your own ER/OR/ward/office. On an airplane, you're a paying customer like everyone else, and you should abide by the airplane crews' instructions like everyone else. Oh, I know, doctors aren't used to being told to sit down and shut up. We're used to being the ones running the show. But maybe we need to be reminded to butt out of other people's business once in a while, even though basing that decision upon the race or gender of the physician is sheer idiocy on the part of the airline crew.

I do carry my hospital ID with me at all times and would not object to someone asking me to produce it in a situation like this. But if the flight attendant told me to sit down because I'm female or s/he didn't believe I was "really" a physician, I'd totally be like, "ok, good luck with that." And I'd sit my a** down with a completely clear conscience. I volunteered to help; my help was declined; and I have no duty to care for this patient. While I'm heartily sorry if someone's health or life suffers for a bad decision made by an airline employee, hey, this is their show to run, not mine. I'm sure at heck not going to get into a pissing match to try to prove myself to the airline staff or "learn them" anything. Because from the crew's perspective, they probably feel the same about some "crazy" passenger "insisting" on helping in a medical emergency, as I feel when some patient or patient's family member "insists" on telling me how to do *my* job.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
As I mentioned previously, the stupidity and ignorance of the human race continues to impress me with its omnipresence and varieties of expression. But FWIW, I disagree that there is no ego at work here. Just because you're a doctor and you (maybe) know the most about how to manage a medical emergency versus everyone else on that flight, doesn't make you in charge or grant you the right to start giving orders like you're in your own ER/OR/ward/office. On an airplane, you're a paying customer like everyone else, and you should abide by the airplane crews' instructions like everyone else. Oh, I know, doctors aren't used to being told to sit down and shut up. We're used to being the ones running the show. But maybe we need to be reminded to butt out of other people's business once in a while, even though basing that decision upon the race or gender of the physician is sheer idiocy on the part of the airline crew.

I do carry my hospital ID with me at all times and would not object to someone asking me to produce it in a situation like this. But if the flight attendant told me to sit down because I'm female or s/he didn't believe I was "really" a physician, I'd totally be like, "ok, good luck with that." And I'd sit my a** down with a completely clear conscience. I volunteered to help; my help was declined; and I have no duty to care for this patient. While I'm heartily sorry if someone's health or life suffers for a bad decision made by an airline employee, hey, this is their show to run, not mine. I'm sure at heck not going to get into a pissing match to try to prove myself to the airline staff or "learn them" anything. Because from the crew's perspective, they probably feel the same about some "crazy" passenger "insisting" on helping in a medical emergency, as I feel when some patient or patient's family member "insists" on telling me how to do *my* job.
and there is a lot in there that i agree with...but if the story is accurate...after she told her to sit down, the airline actually made an announcement for a doctor and when she answered that call, the stewardess still didn't believe her...at that point if you are asking for medical help, you should accept it...if someone tells you where they work and what their specialty is, well, you would think they could believe that...

you may feel justified that you did all you could, but if the passenger died, is feeling justified really going to feel that good?
 
and there is a lot in there that i agree with...but if the story is accurate...after she told her to sit down, the airline actually made an announcement for a doctor and when she answered that call, the stewardess still didn't believe her...at that point if you are asking for medical help, you should accept it...if someone tells you where they work and what their specialty is, well, you would think they could believe that...

you may feel justified that you did all you could, but if the passenger died, is feeling justified really going to feel that good?
Not sure exactly what to think about the story spreading around, but Delta's statement did have some discrepancies with regards to her account that there were only two people (one herself, the other white and male) and neither had identification as medical professionals.

"Three medical professionals identified themselves on the flight in question. Only one was able to produce documentation of medical training and that is the doctor who was asked to assist the customer onboard. In addition, paramedics met the flight to assist the customer further."

http://news.delta.com/message-about-allegations-discrimination-recent-delta-flight

If the flight attendant was in fact consistent in how she treated the various volunteers, the worst she's guilty of is rudeness IMO.
 
Not sure exactly what to think about the story spreading around, but Delta's statement did have some discrepancies with regards to her account that there were only two people (one herself, the other white and male) and neither had identification as medical professionals.

"Three medical professionals identified themselves on the flight in question. Only one was able to produce documentation of medical training and that is the doctor who was asked to assist the customer onboard. In addition, paramedics met the flight to assist the customer further."

http://news.delta.com/message-about-allegations-discrimination-recent-delta-flight

If the flight attendant was in fact consistent in how she treated the various volunteers, the worst she's guilty of is rudeness IMO.
if that was the case, then that's a different story...
 
So I feel kinda frustrated with patients sometimes calling me the nurse or assistant. I've never have had this happen in previous residency training. I definitely look young and I am petite. Even when I introduce myself as Dr. X, it's not infrequent. Even happened today! I introduced myself to Dr. X and stuff and about 4 minutes later, the parent's mom calls me Dr. So and so's assistant. It's so frustrating! I do a great job, my attendings think I do a great job but this really bothers me. It's also not the first time. Do I correct them? Do I tell them hey I'm actually dr. so and so again? Not sure how to deal with it.
I'm a guy so I don't know any of what you've been through wrt gender bias. At the same time, is it unreasonable for someone not in medicine to think of a resident as Dr. so and so's assistant? I'm positive I've been called that a lot. I don't blame my gender because I can't. I don't mind because it's basically true.
 
I'm a guy so I don't know any of what you've been through wrt gender bias. At the same time, is it unreasonable for someone not in medicine to think of a resident as Dr. so and so's assistant? I'm positive I've been called that a lot. I don't blame my gender because I can't. I don't mind because it's basically true.
frankly i think a lay person is not going to know the difference between a resident and an attending...doctor is doctor...plus i doubt she told them she was a resident...that probably came out later.
 
and there is a lot in there that i agree with...but if the story is accurate...after she told her to sit down, the airline actually made an announcement for a doctor and when she answered that call, the stewardess still didn't believe her...at that point if you are asking for medical help, you should accept it...if someone tells you where they work and what their specialty is, well, you would think they could believe that...

you may feel justified that you did all you could, but if the passenger died, is feeling justified really going to feel that good?
Yes, if I knew I had done everything reasonably possible (offer my services, show my ID, etc.), and my help was still refused, I would accept that outcome with grace, because I would know there was nothing more I could have done under the circumstances to change it. Maybe part of it is that I deal with death-and-dying issues at work on a regular basis; there is a reason why some people only half-jokingly call this state "God's waiting room." It is not uncommon for patients here to die in spite of my best efforts and the best efforts of my team. While certain losses are particularly painful (especially young patients and unexpected deaths), I've had several years now to come to terms with the fact that, sometimes, in spite of me giving my very best effort, I'm not going to be able to save them all. And I can also accept that in some cases, there are limits to how hard I should push the issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
frankly i think a lay person is not going to know the difference between a resident and an attending...doctor is doctor...plus i doubt she told them she was a resident...that probably came out later.
I introduce myself as a resident. Guess everyone doesn't. In any case, if the patient came to clinic to see a doc, they likely know the attendings name, not some random resident. And if it's ip, the attendings name is possibly written on the dry erase board along with the nurses and na's. It's really not hard to fathom that people can consider residents both drs and assistants. I'm a resident, I know they're not mutually exclusive. Not saying there aren't biases, but every time something doesn't happen exactly how you always dreamed it would, its not necessarily due to your gender and the ignorance of "lay people," some of whom may have even seen gray's anatomy.
 
I introduce myself as a resident. Guess everyone doesn't. In any case, if the patient came to clinic to see a doc, they likely know the attendings name, not some random resident. And if it's ip, the attendings name is possibly written on the dry erase board along with the nurses and na's. It's really not hard to fathom that people can consider residents both drs and assistants. I'm a resident, I know they're not mutually exclusive. Not saying there aren't biases, but every time something doesn't happen exactly how you always dreamed it would, its not necessarily due to your gender and the ignorance of "lay people," some of whom may have even seen gray's anatomy.
I introduce myself as "Dr. Quimica, the supervising doctor," because no, the majority of my patients do not understand what an attending is. My ID, scrubs, and white coat are all clearly labeled with my name, degrees, position, and hospital, but a fair number of my patients struggle to read and write their own names. So yes, I do roll my eyes a bit whenever I get asked as I'm leaving a room, "when is the doctor coming to see me?" But I just tell the patient, "I'm the doctor." Then I tell my "assistants," no dilaudid for that one. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I introduce myself as a resident. Guess everyone doesn't. In any case, if the patient came to clinic to see a doc, they likely know the attendings name, not some random resident. And if it's ip, the attendings name is possibly written on the dry erase board along with the nurses and na's. It's really not hard to fathom that people can consider residents both drs and assistants. I'm a resident, I know they're not mutually exclusive. Not saying there aren't biases, but every time something doesn't happen exactly how you always dreamed it would, its not necessarily due to your gender and the ignorance of "lay people," some of whom may have even seen gray's anatomy.
If a patient is coming to a resident's clinic they should have made an appointment to see that resident. I have very rarely had patients sophisticated though to ask which attending is precepting and pick a resident appointment based on that. Ip both my residency and fellowship hospitals have white boards with a doctor section with attending and resident lines.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J120AZ using Tapatalk
 
If a patient is coming to a resident's clinic they should have made an appointment to see that resident. I have very rarely had patients sophisticated though to ask which attending is precepting and pick a resident appointment based on that. Ip both my residency and fellowship hospitals have white boards with a doctor section with attending and resident lines.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J120AZ using Tapatalk

Patients many times have no clue who they are there to see, sometimes they don't even know what they are coming for. The point is that it's not infrequent where you introduce yourself as Dr. X when you are a woman, and even now for me they tell me oh I feel so much better (after whatever procedure I've done), and say to my attending "thanks doc!" and tell me thanks so much sweetie! You did a great job.
 
If a patient is coming to a resident's clinic they should have made an appointment to see that resident. I have very rarely had patients sophisticated though to ask which attending is precepting and pick a resident appointment based on that. Ip both my residency and fellowship hospitals have white boards with a doctor section with attending and resident lines.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J120AZ using Tapatalk

At my program, wee don't have individual schedules for the residents. Our continuity clinic is just a side that up to 30 patients get scheduled on, and whoever is ready next is seen by the next available resident, unless they have continuity with another resident. In the mornings, the patients are scheduled with the attending preceptors, and the resident and/or student working with them sees the patient first. So multiple parents come in asking when they are going to see the specific attending that they normally see.

It's actually one of my biggest complaints about my program--the residents don't really have ownership of the patients in clinic.
 
Patients many times have no clue who they are there to see, sometimes they don't even know what they are coming for. The point is that it's not infrequent where you introduce yourself as Dr. X when you are a woman, and even now for me they tell me oh I feel so much better (after whatever procedure I've done), and say to my attending "thanks doc!" and tell me thanks so much sweetie! You did a great job.
you do have to take "honey" or sweetie" in context...especially down South...if a little old lady is calling me sweetie or dear i'm not really going to take offense...its the generation...I just say thank you...its like people up North getting upset when i say ma'am or sir...for them it makes them feel old...for me its the way i was raised to show respect...i try to watch it, but sometimes it just comes out..
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
you do have to take "honey" or sweetie" in context...especially down South...if a little old lady is calling me sweetie or dear i'm not really going to take offense...its the generation...I just say thank you...its like people up North getting upset when i say ma'am or sir...for them it makes them feel old...for me its the way i was raised to show respect...i try to watch it, but sometimes it just comes out..

I don't mind it so much when the little old ladies say it, but when the men say it - it's typically in a more pervy or condescending way. And the men docs don't get called sweetie.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I don't mind it so much when the little old ladies say it, but when the men say it - it's typically in a more pervy or condescending way. And the men docs don't get called sweetie.
those little old ladies do...well at least in Virginia and Georgia they do! :)

but agree some of those young guys...it is a bit annoying!
 
As a resident, I developed a habit of saying, hi Mr./Mrs. patient, it's Dr. Hello1234, how are u doing? Literally every time I walk in the room I address myself as being a doc ... ... one time on day 5 of seeing my patient and introducing myself as a doctor multiple times a day, the patient is on the phone and says to the person on the other line, oh wait a sec, my physical therapist is here ... ... :penguin: .. ... I guess I did stress the importance of her getting out of bed every time I saw her ... ..
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The only part of being called a nurse or anything besides what you are that you can control is your reaction to it. If you decide to take it as a slight and be offended by it all the time you will be much unhappier than if you just figure someone is ignorant about your role and means no offense. The assumption that women must be in an appropriate gender role isn't inherently rude, it is just a sign that the general population isn't as aware of the alternate roles women can have. I would rather politely correct their misperception and let them see me as a calm and competent professional, rather than get upset and have that come out in the interaction-potentially reinforcing gender stereotypes. Then again, i use to be a nurse so being called one doesn't feel like an insult to me but perhaps it does to someone who considers them inferior rather than just another member of the healthcare team.


I agree its not an insult. It just gets weird when there was a whole team of female physicians in a room and you get a page that the patient is complaining they haven't seen a doctor yet today..... Especially when you've been in there multiple times and introduced yourself as doctor ___ every time.

I usually politely correct people but I don't know it still happens. It happens in white coats and out of white coats. Hair up or down. Makeup on or off. I do feel bad for the minority colleagues who always get called housekeeping though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
don't worry...when you are 70 and they think you are in your 40s you will be happier about the mistake....:)


The chief of my department got asked if she was a surgical colleagues fellow. She was so excited to be called a fellow.... she's quite a few years out of fellowship:).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Ugh it really blows! I don't know what to do. Maybe start wearing my white coat? More make up? I feel like I
Won't be able to have a successful practice once I'm done if pts don't see me as the dr. And I'm really good at what I do which sucks even more. I have been. Told countless times by pts what gentle hands I have, or how awesome/painless etc the procedures I do are. I feel really disheartened. And not that young I'm in my 30's! Ugh. Sometimes I feel like quitting.

Every female physician gets called a nurse occasionally. Patients often mistake my male medical students as the senior resident on rounds, many patients call me nurse on post op checks, etc. It's annoying but THIS issue is bothering you so much (feel like quitting??? what???). Female physicians have wage gaps, sexual harassment, family planning issues etc. to deal with (which are way more disheartening). Wear your white coat, wear more make up, wear whatever you want that's going to get you past this supposed affliction of being a young, physically fit physician lol.
 
Last edited:
Every female physician gets called a nurse occasionally. Patients often mistake my male medical students as the senior resident on rounds, many patients call me nurse on post op checks, etc. It's annoying but THIS issue is bothering you so much (feel like quitting??? what???). Female physicians have wage gaps, sexual harassment, family planning issues etc. to deal with (which are way more disheartening). Wear your white coat, wear more make up, wear whatever you want that's going to get you past this supposed affliction of being a young, physically fit physician lol.
Wage gaps? Do explain...with data
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
mmm i was called occupational therapist just last week.
cools
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Top