Below 3.0 gpa Support Group/Thread

[Lil Mick]

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Seeking advice, here is my story.....When I began playing my respective sport in the 1st grade, winning at the pinnacle of the game quickly became my goal. In my sport, the pinnacle is a Division 1 National Championship. After dedicating the majority of my high school years to the sport, I had scholarship offers at many of nations top colleges.
The University of Virginia seemed to have the best blend of athletic and academic excellence. When I arrived on campus, I focused on achieving my childhood dream, a D1 National Championship. While my peers were putting in hours in library I was in weight room and on the filed practicing. I was relentless. Finally, my senior year, as co-captain of the team, I lead the UVA program to a D1 National Championship title, mission success.
Upon graduation, I pursued another childhood goal, a job in U.S. Special Operations. After a few arduous years of training, I have achieved that goal. As I write this, I am sitting in land far away in a Crye Precision multi-cam uniform w/ an IR US flag on my right shoulder. Having traveled to third world countries and active combat zones, I have witnessed the need for medical professionals.
Further, I have found myself in situations in which my limited scope of practice, essentially a glorified EMT, has proved beyond frustrating. Now, at age 25 I want nothing more than to become a doctor. Upon becoming a doctor, I want to do more time in military before moving on to an organization like Médecins Sans Frontières.
However, I am plagued by a sub-par undergraduate GPA. I started my academic career on the pre-med track. However, half-way through both my performance on field and in the classroom were suffering. I had to chose one or the other. In the end it was sport, not academia that was funding my tuition. So, I changed majors and graduated with a 2.669 B.A. in Foreign Affairs. Things are further complicated since I attempted many pre-med classes and produced sub-par results:

MATH 121 B-

BIOL 201 C+
BIOL 202 B-
BIOL 203 B-
BIOL 204 B
BIOL 300 F
BIOL 3010 W

CHEM 14 B-
CHEM 141L B
CHEM 142 C+
CHEM 142 L C+
CHEM 241 C-

PHYS 201 C+
PHYS 203 B-

Now, what is the best manner in which to proceed? I realize that correcting my uGPA is the first thing that I need to address. What is the best way to do this? Post-Bacs seem out of the question given my low uGPA. Is it as simple as just taking classes at a community college? Any and all advice / criticism is welcome. Thank you for your time.
V/r, Tom

Retaking classes will replace those grades for DO (can practice in just about any specialty as MD). Post-bac is also an option, though it might be hard for you to do on a SF schedule. If you can boost your gpa to 3.0 (the level set by most MD schools as screening), you will probably have a good shot. There are some schools that welcome vets, especially medics and infantry (Columbia, UFlorida, MUSC, and Harvard seemed particularly receptive when I was interviewing).

Another option is to do physician assistant school. The PA degree was basically created for returning medics who wanted to continue to practice (especially with WHO, Docs without Borders...), and many schools are more lenient about grades from students with your experiences (have a friend who's finishing up PA school this semester who had a background like that).

Send me a PM if you want to talk more. I had some pretty bad grades before serving, too, and had success applying MD and MD/PhD. Happy to help a fellow vet 🙂

 

[ærospallo]

Seeking advice, here is my story.....When I began playing my respective sport in the 1st grade, winning at the pinnacle of the game quickly became my goal. In my sport, the pinnacle is a Division 1 National Championship. After dedicating the majority of my high school years to the sport, I had scholarship offers at many of nations top colleges.
The University of Virginia seemed to have the best blend of athletic and academic excellence. When I arrived on campus, I focused on achieving my childhood dream, a D1 National Championship. While my peers were putting in hours in library I was in weight room and on the filed practicing. I was relentless. Finally, my senior year, as co-captain of the team, I lead the UVA program to a D1 National Championship title, mission success.
Upon graduation, I pursued another childhood goal, a job in U.S. Special Operations. After a few arduous years of training, I have achieved that goal. As I write this, I am sitting in land far away in a Crye Precision multi-cam uniform w/ an IR US flag on my right shoulder. Having traveled to third world countries and active combat zones, I have witnessed the need for medical professionals.
Further, I have found myself in situations in which my limited scope of practice, essentially a glorified EMT, has proved beyond frustrating. Now, at age 25 I want nothing more than to become a doctor. Upon becoming a doctor, I want to do more time in military before moving on to an organization like Médecins Sans Frontières.
However, I am plagued by a sub-par undergraduate GPA. I started my academic career on the pre-med track. However, half-way through both my performance on field and in the classroom were suffering. I had to chose one or the other. In the end it was sport, not academia that was funding my tuition. So, I changed majors and graduated with a 2.669 B.A. in Foreign Affairs. Things are further complicated since I attempted many pre-med classes and produced sub-par results:

MATH 121 B-

BIOL 201 C+
BIOL 202 B-
BIOL 203 B-
BIOL 204 B
BIOL 300 F
BIOL 3010 W

CHEM 14 B-
CHEM 141L B
CHEM 142 C+
CHEM 142 L C+
CHEM 241 C-

PHYS 201 C+
PHYS 203 B-

Now, what is the best manner in which to proceed? I realize that correcting my uGPA is the first thing that I need to address. What is the best way to do this? Post-Bacs seem out of the question given my low uGPA. Is it as simple as just taking classes at a community college? Any and all advice / criticism is welcome. Thank you for your time.
V/r, Tom

I'm going to guess: CRO.

 

[Quik]

Tom, great story, and in my opinion a great start to a personal statement that answers both why medicine and how you are qualified (showing evidence of an ability to obtain lofty goals you've set out for is compelling in itself).

However, if your sights are set on MD, a 2.66 is going to be tough. Definitely consider DO; with grade replacement you can quickly bring that up, and with quite a few credit hours you can also boost that to somewhere near a 3.0 (or above) to compete for MD seats. Learning that many schools apply a cut-off formula for applications, you need a solid mcat score as well in order for your application to be read. These formulas often are as follows (GPA x average sectional MCAT score). It is beneficial to know how this works, just so you have a good idea of what to prepare for, and for an applicant with great experiences and EC's like yourself, it is essential to have your application read.

As soon as you're able, begin taking/re-taking pre-reqs and upper division sciences, and don't stop at the minimum... it may be two years of pre-reqs before you're ready to apply, but you have plenty of time.

As someone mentioned, also consider PA. It does offer an excellent career as a clinician.

Best of luck!

 

[Tom M]

Thank you to TwinsFan, Lil Mick, and Quick for your time. Your prompt responses each provided helpful content. Though, I have further questions / comments for each of you:

I would take some basic science classes at a CC

Does the reputation of the CC at which I take these classes matter? When I am in garrison, I am geographically restricted. The two community colleges in the immediate vicinity of base are accredited but are not exactly stellar institutions of higher education. The U.S. News 2014 edition of Best Colleges refers to one of them as a "Tier 2 Regional University." Further, how do admissions committees look upon online course work?

Post-bac is also an option, though it might be hard for you to do on a SF schedule.

You are correct. In my current line of work, I spend a third of the year abroad, a third in specialty schools, and a third training with my team. Its an endless cycle. Under such circumstances, a full time post-bac program while still on active duty is out of the question. My current debate is do I just wait until I ETS in OCT '16 before attempting to go down this road? Or, do I try and take classes at the local CC while in garrison and/or online courses.

If your sights are set on MD, a 2.66 is going to be tough......As someone mentioned, also consider PA. It does offer an excellent career as a clinician.

Initially, MD was the goal. But, the more research I do on the DO vs. MD debate the less I am sold on the prospect of only pursuing MD programs. I had a great discussion with a trauma surgeon that augments my unit. He said line between DO / MD is fading and will continue to do so. When treating his patients, he said not one has ever asked him about his credentials or medical school ranking. "They don't care about those things, what they care about is your ability to save and/or improve their quality of life." To that end, I am increasingly apathetic to the MD vs. DO debate. At the end of the day, I care more about obtaining knowledge and experience that will allow me to provide the highest care possible to the wounded Heroes of our great nation and eventually the disadvantaged people of the world. If I have to go to a DO school on planet Mars, so be it.
As far as the PA option is concerned, I brought the idea up with the same surgeon and a PA organic to our operation. For a multitude of reasons, both encouraged to pursue the doctor route over PA. The PA said "I knew I could have been a doctor, but, by the time I realized this I had a wife and two kids. Given my family commitments, PA made more sense." Both agreed that since I have no major commitments other than the current one to the country, the doctor route should be pursued. Though, they both warned that it was a longer more challenging path. One made only more difficult by my age (Currently 25, will be 28 by the time I ETS). But, they concluded that it was worth the years of sacrifice. I digress. Again, thank you to all who provided helpful and meaningful insight.
V/r,
Tom
P.S.

I'm going to guess: CRO.

I am surprised you know CROs exist. Most civilians are oblivious to any SOF beyond squids (I believe civilians refer to them as seals). However, CSAR is not my game. DA on the other hand is my bread and butter.

 

[TwinsFan]

Tom,
Doing classes at a CC and online (if it notes it this way on the transcript) can hurt in some cases. However, you are in a situation where you absolutely must take some bio-science classes to prove you can handle the material and retake a few of the lowest grades to boost your GPA. If the only reasonable way to do this is a CC then so be it. Otherwise get the retakes and a few science classes under your belt then try to do one year full time of science at a 4 year to really prove you can hang.

I took a few of my post bacc classes at a CC and a couple online and still did extremely well this cycle and not a single interviewer asked about them. (10 acceptances, 6MD/4DO)

 

[Lil Mick]

Tom,

Don't worry about the community college/online route. I had to take some of mine at random places, too, and it wasn't a big deal when I applied. If you feel the need, you could look for a short post-bac to attend after you ETS. However, if you retake some classes online or at a CC, it's probably not necessary for DO. It might help with MD, but as long as you're above a 3.0 when you apply, you'll meet the minimum gpa threshold and have the rest of your application considered (MCAT, military service...). Hope that helps 🙂

 

[ærospallo]

P.S. I am surprised you know CROs exist. Most civilians are oblivious to any SOF beyond squids (I believe civilians refer to them as seals). However, CSAR is not my game. DA on the other hand is my bread and butter.

...that's because I'm not a civilian. Obviously not a frogman, but with DA being your forte, SF?

 

[Tom M]

Tom,
Doing classes at a CC and online (if it notes it this way on the transcript) can hurt in some cases. However, you are in a situation where you absolutely must take some bio-science classes to prove you can handle the material and retake a few of the lowest grades to boost your GPA.

I realize that I must fist prove my academic ability in basic BCPM courses. I can start such courses at a CC and/or online while I am still on active duty. Though, you said such courses may hurt. To that end, would it be better to wait until I get out of the service in the fall of 2016 so that I can begin to take classes on a full time basis rather than a part time basis? Do admissions committees look down on students who take only a few classes a semester at CC / online rather than a student who takes a full course load at a major university / college?
I wish to be proactive now and begin doing all that I can to build my case. However, I don't want to begin taking online / CC classes for the next 3 years only to find out medical schools don't accept the course work.

 

[Niemi]

.

 

[Quik]

I realize that I must fist prove my academic ability in basic BCPM courses. I can start such courses at a CC and/or online while I am still on active duty. Though, you said such courses may hurt. To that end, would it be better to wait until I get out of the service in the fall of 2016 so that I can begin to take classes on a full time basis rather than a part time basis? Do admissions committees look down on students who take only a few classes a semester at CC / online rather than a student who takes a full course load at a major university / college?
I wish to be proactive now and begin doing all that I can to build my case. However, I don't want to begin taking online / CC classes for the next 3 years only to find out medical schools don't accept the course work.

I've met or spoken with an number of Admissions officers at an MD school who each gave me differing opinions on courses from a CC; one said no problem, go for it, the other said "there are some traditionalists on the committee who do not give them the full credit they deserve, but it is understood that the rigor has improved." I think a conclusion can be drawn that they may not be as highly favored as 4-year universities, that they [CCs and online courses] are not suitable for all of you post-bacc work, and that when possible it is best to take courses at a 4-year institution.
Remember that there are many uncommon circumstances between the traditional applicant (doing all their pre-req work at a 4-year) and yourself. The traditional is not typically on active duty in the military while also fulfilling the requirements to enter medical school. Admissions committees recognize this and understand that CC courses are a means to an end and not a defining factor of the student. The point is, do what you have to do...

Niemi does make a good point above, that schools can reject online courses... these are typically those with a lab component (chem, physics, ochem, etc).

 

[GreenBlade]

I've met or spoken with an number of Admissions officers at an MD school who each gave me differing opinions on courses from a CC; one said no problem, go for it, the other said "there are some traditionalists on the committee who do not give them the full credit they deserve, but it is understood that the rigor has improved." I think a conclusion can be drawn that they may not be as highly favored as 4-year universities, that they [CCs and online courses] are not suitable for all of you post-bacc work, and that when possible it is best to take courses at a 4-year institution.
Remember that there are many uncommon circumstances between the traditional applicant (doing all their pre-req work at a 4-year) and yourself. The traditional is not typically on active duty in the military while also fulfilling the requirements to enter medical school. Admissions committees recognize this and understand that CC courses are a means to an end and not a defining factor of the student. The point is, do what you have to do...

Niemi does make a good point above, that schools can reject online courses... these are typically those with a lab component (chem, physics, ochem, etc).

That is my only concern. I took a few courses at a CC while I was on Active Duty. I hope the adcoms don't look down upon my road to medical school.

 

[Quik]

That is my only concern. I took a few courses at a CC while I was on Active Duty. I hope the adcoms don't look down upon my road to medical school.

And I really don't think it should be, unless your sights are on Stanford, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Brown, etc... Even then, it's not a deal killer. Show up with A's in O-chem from a 4-year, some other upper division sciences as well, and a good MCAT and your few courses from a CC aren't going to hurt you.

 

[GreenBlade]

And I really don't think it should be, unless your sights are on Stanford, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Brown, etc... Even then, it's not a deal killer. Show up with A's in O-chem from a 4-year, some other upper division sciences as well, and a good MCAT and your few courses from a CC aren't going to hurt you.

Im taking the first half of o chem at the CC, but the rest at a 4 year. I am planning on applying at UTHSCSA, UTSW, and TTHSC. Nothing too fancy.

 

[careleader09]

best of luck. seems like you're on the right track. as always, we're here for tips/advice/venting, etc 🙂

Best of luck !!!

 

[careleader09]

This has always been my favorite thread. Just wanted to encourage everyone to not get discouraged or give up. I was just accepted into medical school with a undergrad GPA that was waaay below a 2.5, and a 22 mcat score. I did complete a masters degree and recently ended with a 3.7, so don't be afraid to pursue other options in your goals to become physicians. I would love it if some of you would be so kind to check out my blog where I am currently documenting my journey: www.aspiringminoritydoctor.com

OMG!! You are amazing. I am currently reading the blog and it is motivating me to keep pushing forward.

 

[TwinsFan]

I realize that I must fist prove my academic ability in basic BCPM courses. I can start such courses at a CC and/or online while I am still on active duty. Though, you said such courses may hurt. To that end, would it be better to wait until I get out of the service in the fall of 2016 so that I can begin to take classes on a full time basis rather than a part time basis? Do admissions committees look down on students who take only a few classes a semester at CC / online rather than a student who takes a full course load at a major university / college?
I wish to be proactive now and begin doing all that I can to build my case. However, I don't want to begin taking online / CC classes for the next 3 years only to find out medical schools don't accept the course work.

I would consider taking a few courses now to build your interest in the basics and test it out and do the few retakes you need to. Then after you are out of the service do one year full time of hard science and back it up with a solid MCAT, this will solidify your comeback and give you a great shot if you can perform.

 

[DreamingDoc]

OMG!! You are amazing. I am currently reading the blog and it is motivating me to keep pushing forward.

Wow! Thank you! Glad you like it 🙂

 

[Major]

Just had my first immunology exam!


Feel like I crushed that sucka! But hopefully it's not just over-confidence. Lol

 

[Major]

Just had my first immunology exam!


Feel like I crushed that sucka! But hopefully it's not just over-confidence. Lol

90/100!!!


1st A of the semester babay !!

 

[isquared]

I need some advice please.
How would I go about managing my time for my postbac classes I'll begin in the summer while working?
I'm considering working parttime so I won't feel overwhelmed. I'll be taking organic chem 2 and physics 2 this coming summer. I'm very eager to get back into the class room but I'm also nervous about taking these two classes together. I'm ready to put in the necessary work to get that "A" and master the material for the mcat. I just need advice on how to juggle a job and school cause I have never done it before.

Orgo 2 over the summer is a bad idea. The labs are excruciatingly long, and you will have two lab days each week.
You have to put in 20 hours minimum outside of class work each week to do well in the class, unless you are some kind of memorizing machine.

 

[Shotekk]

Orgo 2 over the summer is a bad idea. The labs are excruciatingly long, and you will have two lab days each week.
You have to put in 20 hours minimum outside of class work each week to do well in the class, unless you are some kind of memorizing machine.

I'm definitely not taking organic chem II over the summer (I need a solid foundation of organic chem I before I proceed to take the second sequence). I'm going to retake organic chem I and physics I in the summer while working a fulltime job. I'm going to prepare a schedule that I can follow so I can stay on top of my studies. I'm definitely going to take these great tips I've received on this thread and follow them like its my personal bible. I'm not nervous anymore about taking these classes together because I'll encounter greater challenges as I continue down this path to become a doctor.

 

[crazy87]

.

 

[frosted_flake]

Tom,
Doing classes at a CC and online (if it notes it this way on the transcript) can hurt in some cases. However, you are in a situation where you absolutely must take some bio-science classes to prove you can handle the material and retake a few of the lowest grades to boost your GPA. If the only reasonable way to do this is a CC then so be it. Otherwise get the retakes and a few science classes under your belt then try to do one year full time of science at a 4 year to really prove you can hang.

I took a few of my post bacc classes at a CC and a couple online and still did extremely well this cycle and not a single interviewer asked about them. (10 acceptances, 6MD/4DO)

Congrats on all of your acceptances!!

 

[Quik]

I think I might look into taking higher level science courses at a 4 year university part time.... I don't know how difficult it is to become a student at large at good universities. I'm sure some of you have done that though?? That way I could still work and earn income while applying to med school.

Anyway, I love that this thread is here!! Have been reading SDN for years and just started posting. Hadn't seen this thread yet though. Camaraderie 🙂

I think you have a good plan, but spend some time working out the details; volunteering, clinical experience, building leadership experience are all very important and necessary aspects of an application. Put all of these activities in the priority list as well, and build an application that displays a commitment to service in a medical setting, and that you have strong leadership qualities. Set goals for yourself in these areas, like how many hours of service you can accumulate for each category. Volunteering in a hospital is a great way to serve and get clinical experience in the same activity.

A SMP isn't absolutely necessary, and might also not allow adequate time to fulfill the rest of the necessary aspects of a robust application.

 

[Major]

Thinking of pushing the mcat back to may. Suppose to take the march 22nd one but it feels like I am rushing it. I'm not having a great time at finding that right balance at studying for my classes And the mcat

 

[thinkbeyond7]

The details of my application are very similar to this.

Chemical engineer about 12 years out of undergrad. Married with 2 kids (though only 1 kid when I studied for the MCAT).

Undergrad GPA (both c and s) - 3.0
Grad GPA - 3.1
Recent coursework - PhD level pharmaceutics courses at USP and Biochem + Cell Biology about a year ago to demonstrate recent ability to to take courses - 4.0

I used EK Audio Osmosis for a pretty good while; have probably listened to everything >10 times. Used the 10 week plan with all of their study materials. Did not use anything else. Studied at night when the wife and kid were asleep until ~2am almost every night. Walked out of the exam thinking I probably wasted 4 months of my life. Ended up scoring a 33.

Applied to 3 MD schools, 2 in-state and one in state next door. Interviewed at 2. Accepted at both.

I start medical school in a little over a month.

Good luck to everyone.

Thank you very much for your post. You actually make me realize that I still have hope to go forward my dream.

 

[Quik]

Thinking of pushing the mcat back to may. Suppose to take the march 22nd one but it feels like I am rushing it. I'm not having a great time at finding that right balance at studying for my classes And the mcat

Then why not push it back, but considering there won't be much difference between March and May in the load you have, why not push it back till June? I know I'll want a month of study time dedicated ONLY to the MCAT.

 

[Major]

Then why not push it back, but considering there won't be much difference between March and May in the load you have, why not push it back till June? I know I'll want a month of study time dedicated ONLY to the MCAT.

True. I'm seeing now why so many will use summer break to study only mcat and take it in august/sept

 

[Quik]

True. I'm seeing now why so many will use summer break to study only mcat and take it in august/sept

Does your school schedule allow that month for a June/July test date? I know the resounding advice is to apply early, but I would certainly prefer a better MCAT score over an application submitted on day 1. Even then, you can submit your app and post your score after it's received. My advice is prioritize adequate preparation and an optimal MCAT score over the alternative.

 

[Major]

Does your school schedule allow that month for a June/July test date? I know the resounding advice is to apply early, but I would certainly prefer a better MCAT score over an application submitted on day 1. Even then, you can submit your app and post your score after it's received. My advice is prioritize adequate preparation and an optimal MCAT score over the alternative.

Agreed !

 

[BlastedHeath]

Hello everyone, I've been lurking around SDN for a few months and decided this is the thread for me.

After 4 years of taking classes off and on, I had a 1.51 GPA after 80 units attempted. I worked too much and kept signing up for courses I couldn't finish, and I'd either withdraw past the drop deadline or just stop going to class and get an F. Long story short, my transcript looked like a warzone, I was dismissed and I had no motivation. I finally said forget it and worked for a few years.

When I finally got my act together, I started over at a community college. Got an AS with a 3.96 GPA, and now I'm finishing up my bachelor's at a different 4 year. I'm a non-science major and I should graduate next Spring.

Assuming I added everything up correctly, I'm currently at a 2.66 combined GPA. The number of units I've taken means GPA lifts are increasingly incremental, but it is still a far cry from the 1.51 I had. My loftiest estimates tell me that I could have up to a 3.3 GPA when all is said and done.

My plan is to finish my bachelors and then do a 2 year post bacc to further raise the GPA and complete my science prerequisites. DO grade replacement is going to be my best friend, but I will probably apply to some MD schools as well.

 

[Patassa]

Hello everyone, I've been lurking around SDN for a few months and decided this is the thread for me.

After 4 years of taking classes off and on, I had a 1.51 GPA after 80 units attempted. I worked too much and kept signing up for courses I couldn't finish, and I'd either withdraw past the drop deadline or just stop going to class and get an F. Long story short, my transcript looked like a warzone, I was dismissed and I had no motivation. I finally said forget it and worked for a few years.

When I finally got my act together, I started over at a community college. Got an AS with a 3.96 GPA, and now I'm finishing up my bachelor's at a different 4 year. I'm a non-science major and I should graduate next Spring.

Assuming I added everything up correctly, I'm currently at a 2.66 combined GPA. The number of units I've taken means GPA lifts are increasingly incremental, but it is still a far cry from the 1.51 I had. My loftiest estimates tell me that I could have up to a 3.3 GPA when all is said and done.

My plan is to finish my bachelors and then do a 2 year post bacc to further raise the GPA and complete my science prerequisites. DO grade replacement is going to be my best friend, but I will probably apply to some MD schools as well.

Before committing to a post-bac talk to some medical schools in your area. A strong upward trend and a strong MCAT is sometimes all it takes. Overall GPA doesn't tell the whole story, I was recently accepted with an overall of 3.1, science gpa was even lower I think. GPA matters in some circumstances more than others and at some places more than others.

 

[impossibletobepossible]

here is my story and i would like to hear from everyone.
i graduated with a bachelor degree in cell and molecular biology back in 2009. however, my g.p.a. is pretty low and here is my stat for the pre-req: cGPA: 2.7 and sGPA is even lower.

Biology 1 with lab: B
Biology 2 with lab: B

General Chemistry 1 with lab: C
General Chemistry 2 with lab: B

Organic Chemistry 1 with lab: C
Organic Chemistry 2 with lab: C

Physics 1 with lab: C
Physics 2 with lab: B

English 101: B
English 103: B

Calculus 1: C
Calculus 2: B

Speech/Public speaking: B
Psychology: A
Sociology: B

I'm currently taking Statistics/Anatomy/Physiology/Microbiology in a CC and aiming to get all As for this semester and summer semester. Hope this can help me to bring up my g.p.a. a little bit.

I did also earned 3 Ds in upper science courses such as Immunology, Endocrinology, and Bioinformatics. I earned Ds in immunology and endocrinology due to the difficulty of the materials and i didn't really know what to study for those 2 classes at that time. I would blame myself to earn D in bioinformatics because i was working so much and was not paying attention much to the course. I can guarantee that if i could re-take these again, i would have earned a much better letter grades.

I've been working volunteering in different hospitals, shadowing MD docs/PA, and planning to apply to PA school to graduate as physician assistant b/c i was kinda giving up to go for MD/DO. But as seeing what PA does at a hospital where i was volunteering, i could assure it was not what i wanted to be in the future and it was not the job i wanted to do for the rest of my life.

i really want to be in MD/DO schools no matter what it takes for me to get there. I hope that you guys here in this forum could give me some advice of what i need to do and what i can do from here. is it too late for me to pursuit my dream? i will not give up as long as it still has just a little light at the end of the tunnel.

during the last few weeks, i've been screening throughout the sdn pre-med forum, i feel like i still have hope to go for what i want even though it's still long road ahead.

my g.p.a. is so low to apply to any post-bac program. what i can do to get into any post-bac program and to take post bac upper bio division courses to improve my g.p.a., and what does "DO grade replacement?" I'm really confused of these processes and can't find any helpful information online.

thanks guy for reading my post and i look forward seeing your advice.

 

[impossibletobepossible]

how did u calculate your ACOMAS gpa and could you explain ACOMAS grade replacement procedure please?

So I'll get things started here
Almost 27 years old.

ACCOMAS cgpa = 2.54, sgpa= 2.1, non-science = 2.85

No kids, single, live alone with my dog, work part time, volunteer at two different organizations, and now I am retaking classes part time

I finished all of my undergrad degree requirements in the spring so I wanted to get my diploma/graduate and then stay at my university as a post-bach But my school has this goofy policy have only allowing non-degree seeking students to only be allowed to take classes for 2 semesters then no more.


So my advisor basically told me to just file for graduation whenever I get accepted to grad school. I can keep taking as many classes as I want/need for as along as I want. I just can't apply for graduation lol. I could graduate then seek another degree but then I would have to be taking more classes I don't need.

So technically I can't call my self a post-bach but I have finished all my degree requirements. All there is to do now is start retaking all my F classes and work my way up through the C's...

My schedule looks like this:

Summer 2013: Microbiology- 3 credits
Ochem Lab- 2 credits


Fall 2013: Microbiology Lab- 2 credits
History of Science- 3 credits
Genetics - 3 credits


Spring 2014: Immunology - 3 credits
Ecology - 3 credits
Algebra&Trig - 4 credits


Summer 2014: Ochem 1 - 3 credits
Ochem 2- 3 credits


Fall 2014: Gen. Biology I - 4 credits
Gen. Chem I - 5 credits


Spring 2015: Physics I - 4 credits


Summer 2015: Physics II - 4 credits


After that I don't know what else to take. I'll have every F and C replaced except Spanish I which is 5 credits....


I take the mcat this September 12th. So I know I need to score really really well on it....

 

[BlastedHeath]

Before committing to a post-bac talk to some medical schools in your area. A strong upward trend and a strong MCAT is sometimes all it takes. Overall GPA doesn't tell the whole story, I was recently accepted with an overall of 3.1, science gpa was even lower I think. GPA matters in some circumstances more than others and at some places more than others.

Thanks. While I'd like to get to med school as soon as possible, I'm pretty sure I'm destined for post-bac. Other than one semester of gen chem, I don't have any of my science prerequisites done and I can't complete them in my current program. I can use more time to beef up my extra curriculars as well. If that is what it takes to get me where I want to go, I'll gladly do it all.

 

[Patassa]

Thanks. While I'd like to get to med school as soon as possible, I'm pretty sure I'm destined for post-bac. Other than one semester of gen chem, I don't have any of my science prerequisites done and I can't complete them in my current program. I can use more time to beef up my extra curriculars as well. If that is what it takes to get me where I want to go, I'll gladly do it all.

Oh sorry I misunderstood your situation. I thought you were taking the pre-reqs now. Bon courage!

 

[Quik]

Hello everyone, I've been lurking around SDN for a few months and decided this is the thread for me.

After 4 years of taking classes off and on, I had a 1.51 GPA after 80 units attempted. I worked too much and kept signing up for courses I couldn't finish, and I'd either withdraw past the drop deadline or just stop going to class and get an F. Long story short, my transcript looked like a warzone, I was dismissed and I had no motivation. I finally said forget it and worked for a few years.

When I finally got my act together, I started over at a community college. Got an AS with a 3.96 GPA, and now I'm finishing up my bachelor's at a different 4 year. I'm a non-science major and I should graduate next Spring.

Assuming I added everything up correctly, I'm currently at a 2.66 combined GPA. The number of units I've taken means GPA lifts are increasingly incremental, but it is still a far cry from the 1.51 I had. My loftiest estimates tell me that I could have up to a 3.3 GPA when all is said and done.

My plan is to finish my bachelors and then do a 2 year post bacc to further raise the GPA and complete my science prerequisites. DO grade replacement is going to be my best friend, but I will probably apply to some MD schools as well.

You do have one thing going for you, and that is your poor grades are confined to a distinct period. The "upward trend" theory is real and powerful. It may take an additional few years of work to improve your GPA, but it's certainly possible. As I've said before to others in this thread, make sure you spend time building a robust application that is strong in every category, try and gather intriguing EC's. Do well on the MCAT, and you will have a good shot at an acceptance to a DO and/or MD.

 

[Mitt]

I apologize in advance if this is the incorrect place to ask this question. If a person has a low GPA from an ivy league school but plays varsity sports (football) do medical school admissions take this into consideration? My son is looking at colleges and has interest from a few ivy league schools but I am concerned that the level of academic competition will be pretty intense, plus the time committment for football will also negatively impact his ability to attain a good GPA. Unfortunately, he has ADD and test anxiety so the MCAT will be a challenge. I've been somewhat discounting the ivy league schools due to these potential hurdles for his future medical school aspirations, but I wouldn't want to rule them out if he can enjoy college and still be able to pursue his dream of being a physician. Thank you for any input.

 

[LivingOnAPrayer123]

I apologize in advance if this is the incorrect place to ask this question. If a person has a low GPA from an ivy league school but plays varsity sports (football) do medical school admissions take this into consideration? My son is looking at colleges and has interest from a few ivy league schools but I am concerned that the level of academic competition will be pretty intense, plus the time committment for football will also negatively impact his ability to attain a good GPA. Unfortunately, he has ADD and test anxiety so the MCAT will be a challenge. I've been somewhat discounting the ivy league schools due to these potential hurdles for his future medical school aspirations, but I wouldn't want to rule them out if he can enjoy college and still be able to pursue his dream of being a physician. Thank you for any input.

I'm not sure about the Ivy League part of your question, but I did play a sport at a Division 1 school. It was extremely difficult having to attend morning practices at 4am, and afternoon/evening practices, film time, etc...We were provided tutors free of charge so that helped but most of us had issues with grades because we were expected to put in 110% and there was an understanding that "the team and our band of brothers always came first."

GPA I think is super important and playing a D-1 sport with a low GPA can close some doors for medical school down the line. As someone that struggled with ADHD I can tell you, your son can do well in college he will just have to work harder than most and will have to learn how to be a wizard at managing his time.

I haven't been accepted to medical school yet but hopefully soon!

 

[Patassa]

I apologize in advance if this is the incorrect place to ask this question. If a person has a low GPA from an ivy league school but plays varsity sports (football) do medical school admissions take this into consideration? My son is looking at colleges and has interest from a few ivy league schools but I am concerned that the level of academic competition will be pretty intense, plus the time committment for football will also negatively impact his ability to attain a good GPA. Unfortunately, he has ADD and test anxiety so the MCAT will be a challenge. I've been somewhat discounting the ivy league schools due to these potential hurdles for his future medical school aspirations, but I wouldn't want to rule them out if he can enjoy college and still be able to pursue his dream of being a physician. Thank you for any input.

Another way to look at this that if his ADD and anxiety is too severe for him to do well on the MCAT, he'll still have an Ivy League education when he's done. That certainly won't hurt him in whatever he decides to do. ADD and test anxiety could shoot him in the foot no matter where he goes to school with regards to GPA and MCAT. So there really isn't a downside to the Ivy route. There won't really be much impact from "academic competition" that I can see. Most bio classes are multiple choice.

 

[Mitt]

I'm not sure about the Ivy League part of your question, but I did play a sport at a Division 1 school. It was extremely difficult having to attend morning practices at 4am, and afternoon/evening practices, film time, etc...We were provided tutors free of charge so that helped but most of us had issues with grades because we were expected to put in 110% and there was an understanding that "the team and our band of brothers always came first."

GPA I think is super important and playing a D-1 sport with a low GPA can close some doors for medical school down the line. As someone that struggled with ADHD I can tell you, your son can do well in college he will just have to work harder than most and will have to learn how to be a wizard at managing his time.

I haven't been accepted to medical school yet but hopefully soon!

Thank you very much. He is just starting recruiting and has some interest from a D1 in the West and what you stated is what I also feared with the large public universities. One thing with the ivy, no athletic scholarships, so if it's too tough he can stop playing and focus on school (of course, by then he may already be in the GPA hole). Best of luck to you!

 

[Mitt]

Another way to look at this that if his ADD and anxiety is too severe for him to do well on the MCAT, he'll still have an Ivy League education when he's done. That certainly won't hurt him in whatever he decides to do. ADD and test anxiety could shoot him in the foot no matter where he goes to school with regards to GPA and MCAT. So there really isn't a downside to the Ivy route. There won't really be much impact from "academic competition" that I can see. Most bio classes are multiple choice.

Thanks- my thought on the GPA was that if he went to a D2 school, he would hopefully have a shot at a higher GPA, which may help offset the lower MCAT a bit. If he goes ivy and gets a low GPA and then also ends up with a low MCAT he would seem to be in worse shape (unless the ivy background helps).

 

[LivingOnAPrayer123]

Thank you very much. He is just starting recruiting and has some interest from a D1 in the West and what you stated is what I also feared with the large public universities. One thing with the ivy, no athletic scholarships, so if it's too tough he can stop playing and focus on school (of course, by then he may already be in the GPA hole). Best of luck to you!

If I were to do it all over again, I would gladly not have played and focused on my GPA. The extra ~5 hours a day would have freed up so much time to study. I didn't realize the Ivy League schools didn't provide scholarships, that could be another factor to consider. I imagine the cost of those schools would put him in quite the hole just for undergrad plus the 4 years of medical school debt that he will aquire. I was fortunate to have my scholarship pay for my tuition and books and graduated debt free.

 

[Patassa]

Thanks- my thought on the GPA was that if he went to a D2 school, he would hopefully have a shot at a higher GPA, which may help offset the lower MCAT a bit. If he goes ivy and gets a low GPA and then also ends up with a low MCAT he would seem to be in worse shape (unless the ivy background helps).

Well, the fact that you expect the IV school to be "harder" demonstrates that some people do perceive IV schools to be more difficult. If that's the case, say a 3.4 at Harvard vs. a 3.8 at a state school, maybe the difference is a wash?

There really is just no way to know how he'll do GPA wise at either, nor is there any way to tell how it will be perceived by the adcoms. No matter where he goes, if he wants to get into medical school he needs to be near perfect GPA wise and score well on the MCAT. I think most would agree that the best way to do that is to major in something you're actually interested in. IV schools have the luxury of having incredible faculty teaching really interesting and novel courses. He might be much more engaged there as opposed to a state school.

 

[eddiesolebury23]

Hello everyone
I am a non trad student 28 years old now, seeking for some advices here. I did my undergraduate at a Canadian institution EcE from 2005-2009 and my overall GPA was 2.23. After being lost for few years, I decided to change my career path to medicine, I have completed g chem physics, college English , organic for the past 1 year and right now taking biochem sequence and genetics. My overall GPA at this institution is 3.83 and will take MCAT on the upcoming June. I have done shadowing, volunteer over 200 hours and been involved in a research right now, however after read all these posts. I started to wonder if all my effort will pay off since lots of you mentioned about cut off GPA for med school and I don't think my 2 years here will cover that up.
So can someone please answer my questions....
1. What is the cutoff GPA for medical school application?
2. In my previous undergrad, I didn't get a chance to do any prereq because my program was engineering and the courses offered were completely different from a&s. How will the AAMC access these courses?
3. Since canada is a foreign institution, will they still take into account for these courses?
4. I haven't applied yet but is there way to know ahead what will be overall GPA be before the cycle start? So I can better plan my next step.

This is my first time post stuffs here. I hope I can regain some confidence here...

 

[CapCrunch]

Use the GPA calculator posted here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/amcas-gpa-calculator-revised.590424/
The cutoff is usually listed as a 3.0. However, you may or may not be granted leniency based off of your recent performance. Do you plan on returning to Canada to practice? You may also want to consider DO programs, as they will allow grade replacement. In addition, since your background is engineering, your AACOMAS (DO version of AMCAS) sGPA may not be as low as you think due to the exclusion of math courses in the calculation of the sGPA.

 

[MDwanna1324354]

Do you think your engineering background helped you in your application? I just graduated with a BS in biomedical engineering from a reputable school but only achieved a 2.97 (death in the family during senior year finals week brought me from above a 3.0 to below). I have a solid resume with research, internships, publications, and now a full time bme job. But I've decided to pursue medicine and just applied to Columbia, nyu, tufts, bu post bac schools. I'm terrified that despite my resume and recommendations, my 2.97 gpa will get my application tossed out instantly.

I'm so terrified of getting stuck at this job I'm having trouble sleeping at night. If someone has been in my position and can help I'd greatly appreciate it. I keep reading about how admissions doesn't even look at apps below a 3..how accurate is that?

The details of my application are very similar to this.

Chemical engineer about 12 years out of undergrad. Married with 2 kids (though only 1 kid when I studied for the MCAT).

Undergrad GPA (both c and s) - 3.0
Grad GPA - 3.1
Recent coursework - PhD level pharmaceutics courses at USP and Biochem + Cell Biology about a year ago to demonstrate recent ability to to take courses - 4.0

I used EK Audio Osmosis for a pretty good while; have probably listened to everything >10 times. Used the 10 week plan with all of their study materials. Did not use anything else. Studied at night when the wife and kid were asleep until ~2am almost every night. Walked out of the exam thinking I probably wasted 4 months of my life. Ended up scoring a 33.

Applied to 3 MD schools, 2 in-state and one in state next door. Interviewed at 2. Accepted at both.

I start medical school in a little over a month.

Good luck to everyone.

 

[guspilgrim]

I think that the engineering background helped. I had about 12 years of experience in pharma / med devices and I am certified in Six Sigma / Lean, which may have also helped because there is a pretty big Lean push in health care currently. I think my MCAT and success in recent upper level coursework helped. I decided it was something I wanted to do so I gave it my best effort - if I got in, great. If I didn't get in - I'd continue doing what I was doing and it wouldn't be terrible.

I ended up delaying my application for a year to take a couple of courses (Biochem + Cell Biology) to demonstrate an ability to do well in that type of coursework and I think that was helpful. It was difficult to delay that year (I started school at 38) but I felt getting that coursework (at Adcom recommendation) was important to put my best application forward.

I was fairly surprised with the interview invites / acceptances. Will the 2.97 kill the application? Impossible to say (at least for me - what do I know) but I would do your best to do really well with the other components of the application (sounds like you have a lot of really good components already). I continued to work full time while I took the extra classes so if you happen to have a university near you that might be an option.

I would also recommend giving your job a good chance. BME will give you the opportunity for really challenging work - find something you can get really interested in at work (if you have that kind of flexibility - I did, luckily) and work hard and do well. If you don't get into medical school there are still plenty of things you can do. If you don't get in this cycle you can try the SMP or post-bac route and see how that goes.

We have about 2 months left of first year. It is really quite challenging but the good news is it is definitely possible. I was hoping my experience and degree would give me some level of advantage once we started but for the most part it doesn't really matter where you came from (we have English majors and a Dance major and they are doing fine) what really matters (as far as I can tell) is how diligent you are and how hard you work. Maybe that's where my experience helps to pay off because working efficiently for 8-10 hours a day is not much of a stretch over what I was doing previously.

Good luck with the application cycle and whatever you decide.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I get nostalgia coming back to this thread. I remember when I started my journey with a broken GPA. I would play with that stupid GPA spreadsheet imagining what classes I'd take and what I'd do if a class was unavailable, etc. God, I'm infinitely grateful that I got in. Trust me guys, the journey may be long and hard, but the payoff is so sweet.

 

[Rusty1331]

How do Withdrawls factor in to the whole Postbac/retaking process? I imagine it certainly doesn thelp but does it hurt in a major way? For example I just started a DIY postback this last fall retaking a lot of science classes I did poorly in. In some tho instead of facing the C or D i'd just withdraw. In fact for 2 semsters I withdrew from ALL my classes rather than face all Cs and Ds.

It was a poor decision and Im trying to overcome them now, Just took Ochem 1 and Bio last semester both A's! (Ochem was originally a W and Bio was a C)