Berkeley or UCI?

[Oasis]

I am in the EXACT same position as an earlier poster who was deciding between UCLA and UCI, except my case is between Berkeley and uci. I got into Berkeley college of letters and sciences and UCI school of bio science (i am changing it to biomedical engineering if i can). I dont know which one to choose. Heres the thing, I really like berkeley and want to go there but the only thing that is making me doubt this decision is what ive heard about the difficulty of the molecular biology department there. I went to Cal Day on saturday and even the proffessors were saying how it was really hard to get an A. The funny part is that they brought students to talk about the program and they kept saying "id just like to dispell the myth that molecular bio is really competitive" then i walk outside and talk to a molecular bio student in a booth and shes like "its really competitive and difficult here"... hmmm... So i was thinking i should go to UCI ( i live 5 minuets from there) where it would be less competitive and i would be higher academically with respect to the student body. I want to go into med school or do bioengieering/tech stuff so I dont know if its worth it to go to berkeley and do poorly and get a bad GPA instead of going to UCI where i am pretty confident i would do well ( my brother and sister both went here and they said its not too tough). So whats the deal what do you guys think? I really want to go to berkeley but the difficulty of the courses with the curving situation and competitive students is really dissapointing and depressing. Another thing too is that i am a good student but i dont consider myself a genious or anything. I feel like i was pretty lucky to get into berkeley becuase i didnt get into UCLA or SAn Diego (<--- wtf) my gpa was like above 4.0 and i had a 1270 SAT. Thanks

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[scifi]

tough call...

i don't want to push you either way but i can tell you about my experiences as a mcb major at cal. it's true that it is tough, it is competitive. a lot of people can breeze through high school and ace classes without much effort but that's because there's no curve in the grading system and most of the info you need to know is covered in class. basically in order to get an A in a class at Cal (as at almost any college) you have to be in the top X%. take into consideration that the majority of students at Cal were not slackers in hs. i don't have a lot of pre-med horror stories but have met quite a few gunners.

part of the reason why the mcb courses are competitive is because so many people start out pre med and the lower div courses are meant to weed out people who are not stellar in the sciences (ie, people inspired to become doctors by watching ER.) my chem 1a class had 1500 people! (granted, not all were pre-med or pre-mcb). but you will hear many pre-med advisors warn students about the difficulties of going into medicine and encourage you to explore other options. for me, the challenges i faced made me work harder (ie, i did better in my classes when i had a heavier course load than when i had a lot of free time). i loved my experience there and wouldn't have gone to any other school if i did it over. i'm also from socal and wanted to get away and try something new but at the same time be somewhat close to home. if you want challenge and thrive off of it and really like the bay area (i want to go back there myself), then go for it. if you think you'll be more comfortable closer to home and think you fit in better with students at uci go there instead. hope that helps.

 

[souljah1]

if you think you would be 'higher academically' at uci, then what makes you so unsure about your performance at berkeley? i went to berkeley (was a transfer student) and did not major in MCB. i would say that it was more competitive than what i majored in (nutritional science and toxicology), but i took a few MCB classes and i did fine (biochemistry courses). i met students who majored in MCB that absolutely fit the sterotypical, gung-ho, premed, but i also met some that were chill. MCB is a tough program, but i don't think it is impossible. i think you can absolutely be a MCB major and not get phased by insecure people who drive competition through the roof. what can be intimidating is the size of some of the classes (premed classes expecially), but i'd imagine uci's classes to be pretty large as well.

bottom line..go where you'll be happy. don't allow fear to make decisions for you.

 

[sunflower79]

Thoughts from a fellow Bear...

I know your concern is about competitiveness, and I have to agree Cal is very competitive just by virtue of having lots of smart, anxious pre-meds, not necessarily in the cutthroat sense of competitive. You have to work hard to get an A, but a 3.6 from Cal would probably be on par with a 3.8 from Irvine.

Most ppl would jump at a chance to go to such a pretigious school as Cal... and so I'm surprised at the hesitation (not a bad thing) that ppl are showing about Cal and ucla because of their competitiveness. Let me just put out there that prestige is a small factor in med school adcoms, but it is a much bigger factor if you decide to pursue something else halfway through. Companies recruit a lot of students from Cal for internships and jobs.

Of course, if you do not thrive in competition, then Cal is probably not the school for you. That said, there are some other factors you might wanna consider about whether you would be happy at Cal (that IS the bottom line after all):

1. MCB is not the only biology major out there. Integrative biology (my major, can you tell?) is full of cool people and cool classes that you can count as a major. For one thing, human A&P are IB classes. Definitely less stressful major as a whole than MCB.

2. I did not appreciate the lack of social support there; even in pre-med groups I felt most people were focused solely on how to get into med school 24/7. My department advisor was super nice and helpful, but L&S college advisors suck and they really do treat you like another face in the crowd. So if you go to Cal, know there is absolutely no handholding. You have to carve your own niche.

You said you would have family near Irvine if you went there. That may end up being very important. Family can be very helpful for stress relief...

3. On the other hand, I'm a sucker for intellectual challenge (call it masochism) so I really liked Cal in that respect. Classes were tough and I studied like hell, but I also learned a lot. I appreciate that everyone around me was smart and can hold their own in a conversation. And yeah, I'm proud that I survived it.

4. The other thing I absolutely loved is that there are a million things you can do on campus. There are groups for everything, free clinics, UCSF across the bay, lots of non-profits around the bay area that you can intern with. And research is not that hard to come by, I think. You just have to keep your eyes peeled and take initiative when you come across a professor's work that you wanna get involved in.

5. Finally, I'm a city girl, I love the cities of Berkeley and SF, and I love not having to drive everywhere. My political sensibilities also agree with the bay area.

Good luck! Send me a PM if you need specifics.

 

[Trix]

I too am a fellow bear. (graduated in May 2002 and majored in MCB.)

When I started at Cal I was definitely somewhat afraid of being run over by the gunners you always hear about, as I am no genius either. What I found was that most of the students at Cal are not really genius's per say, they just work really really hard. They worked hard in high school to get in, and they continue to work hard once they are there....not the place for slackers, unless you ARE a genius.

The competition is there, but I didn't think it was anything over the top, and I ended up with a good GPA in the end. I studied about 10-15 hours a week on average, and I had time to do research 20-25 hours a week.

If you decide to go to UCI over Berkeley don't do it because of the bad rap MCB gets. Most of it is hype, and there are many other majors. Integrative Bio (IB) is really interesting. One of the great things about IB is that you have so much flexibility...you could take classes in bio eng. They also have a bioengineering major you may want to check into, but I am not sure if it is part of L&S or not??

In the end, it is you who has to make the decision, but know that there is nothing to be afraid of at Cal.

 

[DoubleOSeven]

I'm a Cal grad too. Hey sunflower! I'm an IB major too! I just wanted to re-emphasize that MCB is not the only bio major at Cal. There are other options like IB or some other bio divisions in the college of natural resources (check out the website and you'll see, its not hard to transfer in there just in case you wanted to eventually...I have had a couple friends transfer to that college with no problems). If you do decide to go to cal, make sure you choose a major that is right for you. i don't want to sound like a college brochure but definitely don't jump on the MCB bandwagon just because its mainstream. it all depends on what you want your emphasis to be. also, if you have a really really specific interest and the major isn't offered, you can always design your own major thru L&S. I've had friends do this and incorporate bio courses (both MCB and IB listed classes) and courses from the school of public health in order to have a major that was more specific to certain infection diseases and health care.

If you are worried about not getting an A, well you're not alone. i think the majority of ppl that come to cal are used to doing superb in their high schools and outshining everyone but at Cal its a whole different ballgame and you definitely learn to push yourself and rise to the challenge. i definitely struggled for a while but in the end i made it and i can't say that i regret anything. i loved it! i'm sure that if you're willing to challenge yourself you will love it too. feel free to pm me with specific questions if you want.

 

[mkmk]

i despised my premed experience at Cal. i'm yet another MCB kid (with a psych double major--just to spend sometime away from some of those premed wackos). basically it comes down to your learning style and attitude.

from my perspective, the large majority of Cal premeds were those crazy gunners, obsessed with doing things that would look good on a med school application. their intensity embittered me. and it's not MCB majors only--i met plenty of IB majors were gunners too. but you can definitely find normal, chill, down-to-earth people too--if you look hard enough. needless to say all my closest friends were not MCB or premed! it's not that premeds were mean to each other, but just very focused on their own goals. very am-i-gonna-need-to-know-this-for-the-midterm instead of just enjoying the college. i actually met someone who had their personal statement written a yr in advance so she could, i dunno, edit for a year.

and in all the classes that count...all those premed requirements...you are basically anonymous, the prof ain't gonna know you exist unless you go pounding down on his/her door. that's my take on the entire admin and academic support system at Cal. you need to be ASSERTIVE to be successful. you need to know what you want, and who to talk to, and go out and get it on your own. and for me, that wasn't my style. not that i wanted someone to hold my hand, but you know, i'm not really the type to fight my way to the front of the lecture hall to talk to the prof.

but there are plenty of positives: teaching, research, SF, berkeley bowl, oh and BART, i love BART. it's great that you are discussing all these concerns now. in retrospect, i think i would have been a happier premed at a place like irvine, or davis, but i don't regret going to Berkeley. i'd be happy to tell you more--just msg me. oh and i started under bioE at Cal, but that's a different story.

This is my final piece of advice: Pick the school that'll make you happiest for the next 4 years. Screw all that other premed BS and figure out the answer that is right for you. GOOD LUCK, you'll need it.

 

[Street Philosopher]

Do you always shy away from challenges? If so, medical school is not for you. Berkeley is tough, but so is the MCAT, and so is applying to medical school. Medical school itself is difficult, as is residency. A career in medicine is not easy. It's best to have the right attitude about medicine early in your academic career.

Berkeley.

 

[sunflower79]

One common complaint from Cal students is that it's hard to know professors for the purpose of writing a good LOR. I just wanna share my experience because, on the contrary, I actually had a relatively easy time getting LORs. I chose:

an IB prof whose class I took was 40 (way cool!)
an awesome English prof who taught 2 seminars I took
a psych prof for whom I did research
and the only LOR written by a grad student was co-signed by the MCB professor.

(Other letters I got for research outside of Cal)

I went to office hours often, sure, but not every week or even every other week. And not for the sole purpose of getting an LOR but to ask questions about course content. Cal is definitely not for the shy type.

Also, I sought out smaller classes, not so much to get an LOR as because I just liked smaller classes.

Hope that provides some perspective!

 

[sunflower79]

Originally posted by Street Philosopher
Do you always shy away from challenges? If so, medical school is not for you. Berkeley is tough, but so is the MCAT, and so is applying to medical school. Medical school itself is difficult, as is residency. A career in medicine is not easy. It's best to have the right attitude about medicine early in your academic career.

Berkeley.

And I don't agree with this approach. Being a pre-med is tough enough. If Cal is not for you, I don't think you should a) go to Cal just to enjoy the additional stress you would feel or b) NOT go there and feel guilty about having "shied away from a challenge". At the same time, realize there are rewards for the price you pay for being a Cal student; you just might find the price too high. It's different for everyone. As previously said, just go where you feel the most happy. This will do wonders for you both personally and professionally.

Good luck w/your difficult decision!

 

[Joe Joe on da Radio]

i agree with SP. Going to college is about realizing your full potential. If you aren't challenged, then there's no way you can realize it. If you shy away from some perception that you can't cut it at a particular school, it speaks volumes about your self-confidence.

 

[Street Philosopher]

I just want to elaborate on my statements a little. I don't think you should take on needless challenges to prove yourself. I'm not advocating that you take electrical engineering just to prove you can handle medical school. I just think Berkeley is far and away a much better institution than Irvine, and fear shouldn't get in the way of you taking advantage of the opportunity to attend one of the truly great schools in the nation.

 

[Sophie]

I'd say go to Berkeley. I got into Berkeley, LA, and Davis, and am still somewhat regretting not choosing to go to Cal. I picked Davis partly for scholarship money, and partly because it was close to home. LA got eliminated because I hate the city. Berkeley was axed because when I went there none of the students I saw were smiling. It was a stupid reason to not attend a great school, and I've definitely grown up a lot since making that decision. Plus I totally thrive on competition, can slack and still do well, and ended up completely and totally slacking at Davis because the competition just wasn't there (argh. *kicks self*)

Anyway, there's my two cents. Don't be scared off by competition/toughness because that is often what makes you perform at your best. And no matter what anyone says, no school is THAT hard.

 

[Retro]

I recommend Berkeley for the following reasons:

1) You are assuming that you will be "way above average in UCI".

2) You are assuming that you will "not do well" in Berkeley.

3) The undergrad UC rank goes something like: Cal, UCLA, Davis, Irvine, San Diego, Santa Cruz, and Riverside.

3) Therefore, purely based on your assumptions, you are willing to jump from the top of the ladder to the middle (no offense to UCI people.) The name "Berkeley" will carry you a long way even if you do average there.

But, here are the truth about Berkeley:

1) I studied my butt off and I still get B+ in all of mine MCB core classes. (Not an easy school)

2) Biomedical engineering is not a good pre-med major. (its average GPA is something like a C+, and Chem E is about C, back in 1998). What sounds cool is not always cool for med school.

3) If MCB is your thing, then think Cell & Developmental Biology, or Neurobiology (they are M.D.-makers); and avoid BMB, Genetics or Immunology (they are Ph.D.-makers). I recall, my 6 pre-med friends entered BMB major in 1996, by 1998 - two went to Harvard, one went to MIT, one went to Princeton, one went to Johns Hopkins, and one went to UCSD (all Ph.D. students now).

4) Professors at Berkeley dislike premeds in general (because of a lack of school of medicine, faculties are basic research-oriented).

5) General inferiority complex of MCB people toward Chem E, EECS and Biom E people. (pre-med vs. engineering)

6) Berkeley is tough, but so is life... Challenge yourself!

 

[Jet915]

WTF.........you are putting San Diego under Davis or Irvine????? Man, I think the rank is: Cal, UCLA, SD, Davis=Irvine=SB, Others.........I think SD has the best bio department out of all the UC's, and they are top five in calibre of faculty and NIH funding in the NATION. I personally wouldnt go to Cal if you are scared if its gonna be tough. I personally got into LA, SD and Irvine and chose SD cause I thought it would be less competitive than LA but more prestigious than Irvine.......plus, I didnt want to live too close to home which Irvine would be. I didnt even bother applying to Cal because I heard the horror stories and I really dont like the standard of living/culture there. Also, I know alot of friends who ended up changing majors or getting a really low gpa who went to Cal who were really smart in high school. This is just my experience......

Jetson

 

[Garibaldo]

I'll avoid restating a lot of things that have already been said. Basically, you can major in IB instead of MCB if you want to avoid taking the difficult (read MUCH more difficult) Math 1A/B series rather than the 16A/B series. The MCB upper division courses are much more interesting than the IB upper division courses IMHO. The difficulty is really only in undergraduate courses. The chemistry courses are KILLER. Ochem requires at least 15 hours a week to get a decent grade. The upper division courses are cake compared to the lower division courses. Don't dig yourself an early grave by letting the competition overwhelm you in the first few years and ruin your GPA (I have some experience with this). MCB is cake compared to something like Electrical Engineering and Computer Sciences (EECS), so you can always think about that when you're up at 4 am studying for your ochem exam

There are plenty of diehard premeds who are very unpleasant. They'll hesitate to help you, constantly compare grades and talk about nothing but school. UNPLEASANT. However, you'll find just as many who could really care less about competition and where they stand compared to their peers. They'll be easy to spot because they're the ones who will avoid asking you about your scores and probably won't hang around after exams to compare answers.

Letters of rec are difficult to get in lower division courses because of the number of people in the courses. However, they're fairly easy to get in upper division courses because most students don't bother attending office hours until test time, so you can get to know the professors at any other time.


The political atmosphere is pretty bad if you're even a little conservative. The campus is INCREDIBLY intolerant towards conservative viewpoints. Conservative speakers such as Ward Connerly, David Horowitz, etc were met with crowds that shouted them down and they often had to be escorted away from speaking events by security. The conservative paper, the Cal Patriot, was often stolen and thrown in the trash. The politics on the campus are so polarizing that most of my peers avoided politics like the plague. Liberal professors in the humanities outweight conservatives by about 16:1 (American Enterprise Institute study). I'm not sure what the ratio is in the sciences, but it really doesn't matter because you don't touch on politics much. Freedom of speech is a joke on the campus. The mayor of Berkeley was recently caught stealing issues of the campus newspaper (the Daily Cal) that featured an unfavorable editorial of him and threw them into the trash (this happened before the election). If you're a liberal, welcome to the motherland!!!!

MISC:
Berkeley has great places to eat
Housing is quite expensive
Parking is impossible
Hippies and homeless people are everywhere (esp Telegraph and Shattuck)
The BART is a great way to go to SF for a day
The campus is very nice
Humanities classes are a great way to pad your undergraduate GPA
Lower division courses and most upper division courses are HUGE (several hundred people)
If you're considering doing Biotech stuff in the future, Berkeley is the way to go!! (note: avoid Prof. Sydney Kustu like the plague...)

 

[BMBiology]

GO Bears!

---UC Irvine c/o 2002

 

[paisley1]

Hi there,

It's been a LONG time since I've posted on SDN but I felt compelled to write after reading your post. I graduated from Cal in 2002 and am currently a first year med student at UCSF.

I was in precisely the same predicament as you when I was in high school, the only difference being that I was choosing between UC Davis and Cal. I nearly went to Davis--had the intent to register form filled out and everything--but changed my mind at the last minute and have NEVER regretted it. Yes, Berkeley is a challenging and sometimes intimidating environment but aren't you curious to find out what you are capable of doing? How will you know just how far you can go if you don't put yourself up to the challenge? You just might surprise yourself (I did!).

That said, your experience at Berkeley (or any college you choose to go to, for that matter) will be what you chose to make out of it, for the most part. I was an MCB-Genetics major and yes, some of my classmates were the annoying, pre-med, gunner-types. Do your own thing, work to accomplish your OWN goals (DON"T compare yourself to others), study hard and play hard. Trust me, it will pay off.

If you have any questions, feel free to send me a PM.

Best of luck to you!
paisley

 

[dpy]

Another Cal MCB student here....

Definitely go to Berkeley! I think just based on the fact that 95% of those who responded here are Cal students/grads is probably a pretty good indication of why Berkeley is the best...(I don't know how it's related..hehe..but it's probably not a bad sign)

Coming to Berkeley was the best choice of my life...not once did I ever regret my decision to come here...


on a random note...anyone notice that there are tons of people with names of ucla..something..something (like uclaman, uclakid, uclamendoza, uclaparatrooper, and lots more i think) but there's almost no one with ucb as their name? maybe we just don't have as much pride in our school....oh well....I was kinda bored and thought that it was interesting...

 

[Oasis]

Well thanks for everyone who replied, I am really going to take into consideration everything you guys said. I think when it comes down to it, I am scared like you said. I am scared that i will Fail before i even start. Also, another thing i forgot to mention was that I am coming from a VERY competitive high school. Now that high school is almost over and i reflect back on the experience I am partly glad that I went to this school because i was challenged and I learned alot. At the same time i regret going here because Im not sure that all this stress was nescessary. I always like to think that hard work should be rewarded, which means if you put in the time and effort your grades will reflect it. Im just worried this might not happen at berkeley. I dont think this has to do with whether im up for a "challenge" or anything like that, but where I will be able to accomplish my goals and succeed. That being said, I am really leaning towards Cal because of its academic reputation and the sense of history it has behind it ( you definately dont get that feel at UCI). Thanks again

 

[scifi]

cal is a great school but definitely not for everyone. i am guessing most people here are posting b/c their pre-med experiences there were positive and they did well and were able to get interviews/acceptances by this point.

i will give you a few scenarios of people who started out pre-med (two of them were people very close to me so i know their sentiments well).

-one girl started out as a pre-med because she loved the idea of becoming a doctor and working with people, helping them, etc. had a good heart but not a strong interest in science. after her first semester she dropped the pre-med track and decided to go into teaching instead. she is happy with her choice.

-a guy who started out pre-med/pre-dent took a few of the required courses during first and second years. did okay in a few of the classes but did horribly when it came to ochem and bio1a. this screwed up his gpa and when he later tried to change his major, he wasn't able to get in due to these grades. graduated after 5 years with a major he wasn't interested in and is bitter about his cal experience but has a good job and makes a great salary.

-one guy was pre-med and majored in mcb plus a non-science major. did fairly well in classes, graduated with a 3.4. when he applied to med schools, he only got 1 interview and was told that if his gpa was at least 3.5 it would have helped him make the cutoff. he took post-bacc courses to raise his gpa and is re-applying with more success.

i coudl tell you negative stories about huge classes, professors disliking pre-meds, anal competitive students, being treated like a number, etc. but i can also tell you about my experiences having glen seaborg (famous chemist) sign my periodic table, having a class taught by sydney brenner, volunteering at a homeless clinic, etc etc. okay i'm rambling here but my advice would be that if you are the type of person who takes the initiative and doesn't need to have yoru hand held through your undergrad experience you will do fine at cal and the experience there is definitely worth it. if you need prodding or supportive faculty, or you like having a car with you at all times, cal is not the place to be. good luck and feel free to pm me with any questions.

 

[garnetgirl]

I absolutely loved my social experiences at Berkeley- but I hated Berkeley academically. Well, maybe hate is a strong word. I was an MCB major and I knew alot of cutthroat study-all-the-time people, but my friends were all total slackers(who eventually dropped out of the MCB major). One down side is that the classes are large and the professors aren't exactly available all the time. But it really depends on you if you want to get an A. I think that if you really want it, you could get A's at UCI or UCB. I had one friend who was so hardcore about getting A's he got at least 3 B's changed into A's after grades came out by whining to profs- maybe not the best way to go about it, but it worked for him.
The only regret I have is not being focused and not realizing that I wanted to go into medicine early enough- I kind of coasted by. So you already have one-up on me. Basically, Berkeley isn't the toughest place you could be. I think that if you work hard you will do well. If you have direction, you will do well. If you have a good support system, you will do well. If you go to office hours, you will do well. Don't count yourself out. The name means alot to people in the long run.....no offense to UCI...Berkeley is a great place to hang out, to eat and to learn many, varied things. So if you're leaning towards UCB, just have a clear picture of what you're getting into and know that you can't slack off, but that you can get A's in those impossible MCB classes! Good luck!

 

[dpy]

Originally posted by scifi
having a class taught by sydney brenner

what class did he teach? I never knew he taught at cal..

 

[sunflower79]

Originally posted by Oasis
I always like to think that hard work should be rewarded, which means if you put in the time and effort your grades will reflect it. Im just worried this might not happen at berkeley. I dont think this has to do with whether im up for a "challenge" or anything like that, but where I will be able to accomplish my goals and succeed.

"The greatest thing we have to fear is fear itself."- fdr

You can do whatever you put your mind to! And you are ALWAYS rewarded by your efforts. Whenever I worked hard in my classes it always paid off. (well, except chem 3b!)

And who said bears don't have school pride to rival ucla?
GO BEARS!

Let us know when you're officially a bear, oasis!

 

[dpy]

Originally posted by sunflower79


And who said bears don't have school pride to rival ucla?
GO BEARS!

I have TONS AND TONS of cal pride...but I was wondering why so many SDNers nicknames start with ucla while that's not the case for Cal students (myself included)

Go Bears!

 

[Garibaldo]

Our rival is Stanford

 

[dpy]

Originally posted by Garibaldo
Our rival is Stanford

dang it! get it right! it's Stanfurd

 

[BMBiology]

Originally posted by sunflower79
"The greatest thing we have to fear is fear itself."- fdr

I thought FDR said "...the only thing you have to fear is fear itself--nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance"

 

[goldenbears18]

Originally posted by dpy
I have TONS AND TONS of cal pride...but I was wondering why so many SDNers nicknames start with ucla while that's not the case for Cal students (myself included)

Go Bears!

I didn't even go to Cal, but as you can see in part from my SDN name, I have been a die-hard fan practically since birth. I probably have more Cal pride than even the average Cal student. GO BEARS!!!!

 

[LoneCoyote]

Originally posted by Oasis
Well thanks for everyone who replied, I am really going to take into consideration everything you guys said. I think when it comes down to it, I am scared like you said. I am scared that i will Fail before i even start. Also, another thing i forgot to mention was that I am coming from a VERY competitive high school. Now that high school is almost over and i reflect back on the experience I am partly glad that I went to this school because i was challenged and I learned alot. At the same time i regret going here because Im not sure that all this stress was nescessary. I always like to think that hard work should be rewarded, which means if you put in the time and effort your grades will reflect it. Im just worried this might not happen at berkeley. I dont think this has to do with whether im up for a "challenge" or anything like that, but where I will be able to accomplish my goals and succeed. That being said, I am really leaning towards Cal because of its academic reputation and the sense of history it has behind it ( you definately dont get that feel at UCI). Thanks again

Hi Oasis,

I did not go to Cal but have been reading this thread out of interest since I have many family members and friends who did go there. All had positive experiences overall, by the way. I can tell you that I had very similar feelings coming out of my ultra-competitive high school and had a similar college choice to make between a big "name" state school and a closer to home, decent state school (this school had given me $ but the cost difference was inconsequential). I took the state school closer to home primarily to get away from the stress i had gone thru in high school and partially because I just wanted to rebel and get away from all the driven, crazy competition. By Thanksgiving I knew I had made a mistake as I was bored, unstimulated, and felt I was not learning what I wanted to. I stayed finished the year, transferred, and ended up an elite liberal arts college, the type of school I had initally wanted to avoid due to the competitiveness. Yes, there were tons of driven, unhappy people, and it could get depressing, but I found some friends who weren't like that and we were able to laugh at it and still do very well. If I could do it over I think I would have chosen the "name" state school... I think I would have been happier there overall and not have had to transfer. So I am with the others that you should go to Cal. And if it doesn't work out for you, you can always transfer to UCI. But I think you'll find your niche there. Good luck

 

[jtheater]

Originally posted by dpy
dang it! get it right! it's Stanfurd

Ok, so I am Stanford grad. Frankly, I never really understood why Cal students think mispelling the name of our school is so funny. If anything is funny about our name, it is the fact we are a "Junior University."

As far as this poster goes... coming from someone who obviously has some bias against Cal (not really), definitely go to Cal. Cal graduates are respected throughout the world and this could be important if medicine isn't what you really want to do. I've had gunner pre-med friends realize that they didn't want to be doctors and instead went to Haas Business school and loved it. Irvine is a good school, but definitely won't have the name recognition that Cal does. And yeah, name recognition goes a long way in the real world. Goind to Cal will open a whole lot more doors than Irvine (in my opinion), even if you don't go into medicine.

 

[mgw519]

I'm the black sheep of the family. First Stanford grad in a long line of Golden Bears and Aggies.... My grandmother and grandfather even went to Cal for Pete's sake! The cool part was when I took Chem 3B at Cal during summer school to finish up my prereqs, and it made me a 3rd generation student attending Cal, albeit just for the summer. Although my true love will always be my beloved Cardinal.

Bottomline: Although, I don't know much about Irvine, but go Cal.

 

[scifi]

Originally posted by dpy
what class did he teach? I never knew he taught at cal..

he lectured for the 3rd part of my mcb41x class (genetics & society)--basically bio for non-bio majors. i took it as a pre-req for psych and later found out i didn't need it after taking bio 1a. it was cool but i don't think most of the class appreciated who he was.

 

[tej77]

Yet another Cal grad here. I have a different perspective, though. I was in the college of engineering. I did undergrad and grad school there, both in engineering.

I second and third the notion the Cal isn't for everyone. But what I appreciate about my time spent there was that I grew as a whole person. It was a great school academically and a great school in terms of social conciousness. I'm definitely a better person for having gone there.

I don't think UCI people could say the same thing. I wasn't a gunner (this term not really used for engineers), and I did work really hard, BUT when I did well there, I knew I could do well anywhere.

Just something to think about.

 

[Jaded03]

I'm the one who was choosing between UCLA and UCI. I personally think you should go to Cal. Your reasoning to attend UCI is relatively weak, whereas I am considering it because it's the same setting (stereotypical suburbia) and a lot of my friends are attending: a comfort zone. I mean the argument is to wonder if you have greater opportunities at UCI...but you're going to do that anywhere with every choice; I'm going to take a stab in the dark and assume that these SDNers know what they talk about when they say it all depends on you, the pre-med. I didn't apply to Berkeley for its stereotyping (sad, I know). You've indirectly made your choice, so I'm only guessing that your waiting for a UCI student to pull you out of a decision you have for yourself. Just my guess. Good luck on your choice.

PS. I didn't apply to UCB for the fact that I'm a SoCali and I really don't like the whole forest setting they have up north. It's a bad reason to not apply for something, but I had to narrow my choices..($120 for 3 UC apps). Well, I'm posting my choice tomorrow after a few final phone calls.

 

[paean]

I spend 5.5 years as an undergrad at Berkeley, and finally graduated in IB. I highly recommend doing IB, because the classes are cooler IMHO, and there's a lot more flexibility.

Berkeley definately isn't for everyone, but if you have some ideas about what you want to do when you get it, and are stimulated by a challenging, predominately intellectually oriented environment, you should do well there.

They key to doing well is to only take 2 lower division science/math classes at a time, and take at least one class that has fewer than 35 students each semester. And take advantage of the freshman seminar classes. I really regret not doing that.

By the time you finish your first ochem semester, you'll have a better idea of how much you have to study, and if taking more science classes at a time is reasonable for you or not.

Another factor is cost, and if you want to move out of your parents house/easy dropping by range.

 

[chapinsita]

I posted this for Jaded, but it may help you make a decision as well so here goes.

I'm a 4th year bio major at UCI.

I was in a similar situation out of high school. I was holding acceptances at Harvard and UCI among other schools. For several reasons (tuition costs, location, my dad was a prof at Harvard med school and I found out he went behind my back to talk to the admissions commitee), I decided on UCI. It was the hardest moment ever when I commited to UCI instead of internationally respected Harvard. But I think I made the best decision I could have possibly made.

Irvine DOES have an honors program, and also an honors neurobiology major to which you can apply your second year. There is competition, and it can get dirty sometimes. We even had a "notes" police at the science library because encrazed premeds were sabotaging notes and books left unwatched. But if you do want straight A's you will have to study as everything is on a curve. Biology is a more difficult major to get into so the stats on UCI are actually a bit higher for the bio students (same for engineering). However, I don't imagine I am studying as much as I would be at Harvard (assuming no grade inflation). I have so much time to focus on other things. I got involved in research my sophmore year and have now travelled the US presenting at conferences and symposiums. UCI has given me grants and scholarships for my research and I have no trouble balancing everything out. True that the med center is in a different city, but the med school is on campus. I do research there and rarely do I ever find the need to go to the med center. There are so many hospitals and clinics around that offer so many opportunities. A nearby hospital offers a 1 year internship in which you get to rotate through departments like plastic surgery, main OR, ER, labor and delivery, etc. I've seen breast implants done and babies delivered! Then we have a underpriveledged city nearby where there are tons of free clinics and health education programs available. Since the competition is less, there are less people at office hours and I have become great friends with many professors. There is so much to do and enough time to do it all here at UCI. And I don't think it's podunk university either. We have profs that have won nobel prizes, and one won the National Medal of Science last year (the US version of the nobel prize). All in all, I have no regrets about my choice, and while name recognition may help the average applicant, if you get great grades and strong letters with a good MCAT score, you won't even need the added name recognition to get you in to your top choice. Hope this helps.

 

[SaraMac13]

GO BEARS!!

I am a senior MCB major who majored in MCB because I actually LIKED studying molecular bio, not because it is the "pre-med" major. There is nothing to be scared of in MCB, every horror story you hear is usually from some bitter gunner pre-med who only cared about "what is going to be on the midterm" rather than actually focusing in the concepts and understanding them. (You don't know how many times I have rolled my eyes when people freak out about what is or is not on the tests). I honestly don't feel that it is that competative, especially the upper division work- I work 10 hours a week and sing about 15 hours a week and I have gotten As in all my lower division pre-reqs and upper division classes (except for physical chem- $(*& Prof. Arkin) You can have fun at Berkeley and there are sooo many opportunities out there for students. Berkeley will open so many doors for you, you just have to find the major and the subject you are interested in and go from there, whether it is MCB or Comparative Lit. If you do major in MCB, try Immunology, the professors are amazing and I feel it is so much more interesting than regular cell development. I was a campus guide for three years, so if you or anyone else has any questions about Berkeley, PM me

 

[Oasis]

Alright so after thinking about it for a while i sent my SIR to CAL. This was mainly from my realization that cal is a better school, and although it is very difficult academially, i should not choose a school becuase i am scared. Also, another thing that played a small role in the matter was that the UCI administration pissed me off. When i called them to talk about changing my major they didnt call back, and when i called their financial aid department to find out why my parents would be paying the same amount and i would be getting the same amount of loans if i went to UCI ( i live right by) as i would get if i went to berkeley, the lady was just rude to me. On the other hand Berkeley has been extremeley generous in the way they deal with their students AND they offered me a 5,000 scholarship. All in all i hope i will be happy at Cal; i think i most likeley will. Thanks for your help everyone.

CALIFORNIA

 

[pathstudent]

Dude,

go for Berkeley all the way. SF is the only place that is kinda cool in Cali as far as city goes (yeah the whole state is beautiful) but if you want urban action along with a kick ass education go with Cal. Besides So Cal is for *******

 

[SocietyRed]

You could also avoid taking those upper division classes in MCB. I think the Haas School of Business has a higher med applicant acceptance rate anyway.

Go Bears!

 

[generallobster]

Cal=good choice. But along with everyone else who has replied, let me just add my thing to prepare you a little for what you are getting into. I got my ass kicked academically at berkeley in lower division classes like ochem and physics (even though everyone agrees pre-med physics 8a-8b is not REAL physics!). I was pulling a 3.3 for a while, and my chances of getting into any allopathic med school were going down the drain. I was working my ass off too this whole time, but I just wasn't thriving in the competition. I had 3 friends from high school go to cal with me and also choose MCB as a track to get into med school, and by the end of sophomore year two had abandoned the idea of going into medicine because of grades. One kept trying up until senior year, but after taking the mcat also chose a new calling but was bitter about the whole experience. 3 other friends I met freshmen year also changed to dentistry by junior and senior year simply because of their gpa. So it was a little disheartening. I had to get my act together and kickass academically in my bio 1a/1b and all upper division classes. I did. I became a cut-throat and slashed my way to the A's loosing a bit of my humanity along the way! Advance to the present: stone cold and heartless but with solid mcats, a decent gpa and 3 acceptances--I look back at my experience and wonder if I would have been happier at another school. Maybe, but I think it is true that I discovered what I was capable of at cal--becoming an ice cold gunner, but if that discovery was worth it is a different question. I can honestly say that I became something that I disliked for a couple years, and I would not want to do it for life, and I chose my med school because the atmosphere of the campus was a polar opposite to what I felt in some lower division cal classes. Would I do it again? Yes because I was forced to dig deep into my source of motivation, and it would be a boring life lived if one never experienced true fear and boundless pride. So my advice to you is to be ready to work from the beginning, but find your niche and don't let the pre-med mindset take you over completely. Cal is a fun school with some great people who you will meet in your classes. Some faculty are wonderful while others are complete a-holes (my major advisor advised me start choosing a different path because he didn't think med schools would accept me--because of a few B's). I think you know that college is what you make of it, but it makes you a little as well. Study hard, but don't let your entire college experience be consumed with getting into med school--that's a waste of an opportunity to experience life.