Best US programs for Canadians?

[Dr_Dan_the_man]

Hi everyone,

I know this question has been asked over and over but I havent been able to find the information i'm looking for.
I am a canadian resident and wish to apply to US for the 2008 cycle.
I have a 3.65 GPA and 32 MCAT with average ECs. Didnt get an acceptance this year

My questions are these:

1) Will all of the private schools put me in an equal pool with US applicants or will the americans always be favored? (academically, not in terms of tuition)

2) If I want to go to school in the Northeast (i.e. NY, NJ, NH, ME, MA, PA), which schools are "friendliest" to canadians [for lack of a better term, which have been known to accept the most canadians]

I dont feel like applying to 40 schools and I dont want to travel the country to interview.....

Any help is appreciated

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[Yehosh]

Hi, I'm Canadian (from Toronto) and I applied this year to a bunch of private US schools (and 1 state).

To try and asnwer your questions:

1) Will all of the private schools put me in an equal pool with US applicants or will the americans always be favored? (academically, not in terms of tuition)

Probably not on completely equal basis, but if you do you applications right (good LOR, personal statement, resume) then you should have a good chance. Play the numbers game more schools = higher chance

2) If I want to go to school in the Northeast (i.e. NY, NJ, NH, ME, MA, PA), which schools are "friendliest" to canadians [for lack of a better term, which have been known to accept the most canadians]

Schools you may want to consider:
Albert Einstein - NY
NYMC - NY
SUNY Upstate - NY (not private, but I applied and got interviewed, they accept Canadians)
Yale - CT (Its a long shot, but why not try? they have a great financial aid for foreign students, they explained it all to me on interview day, so for more info on that send me a pm and I'll get back to u)
Cornell - NY
NYU - NY
Boston U - MA
Albany - NY
GW - DC (not on your list, but its a great school and I recommend giving it a shot)
Mt. Sinai - NY
Tufts - MA

I also applied to Vermont but haven't heard back yet and I doubt I will (anything positive that is). I think it is hard enough to get into that school if you are out of state.

The AMCAS application is very different the the OMSAS (for Ontario) application, so keep that in mind.

and for the most important bit of advice.... APPLY AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE

 

[senioritaelena]

Am too a Canadian


Other schools that accept Canadinas a lot
Wayne State, MI
EVMS, VA
other Virginian Schools,
also if you are a minority yuo may wan tto try to apply to Howard or Meharry,
MOunt Sinai, NY

Yah applying early is important. I didn't and i totally regret it. If I had, I would have had time to do more secondaries ( I only did 6 or 7), but I am content with my four interviews.

Good luck. You can PM me if you have more questions.

Us Canadians have got to stick together.

 

[morris121]

I am a canadian resident and wish to apply to US for the 2008 cycle.
I have a 3.65 GPA and 32 MCAT with average ECs. Didnt get an acceptance this year

Is this your Canadian (presumed OMSAS) GPA?
From the sound of your post I take it you have not applied to the US before. Your AMCAS GPA may differ greatly from your "Canadian" GPA and it is dependent on your school.

What school do you go to?
Perhaps we can give you an idea of which GPA conversion scale is used.

 

[Dr_Dan_the_man]

Is this your Canadian (presumed OMSAS) GPA?
From the sound of your post I take it you have not applied to the US before. Your AMCAS GPA may differ greatly from your "Canadian" GPA and it is dependent on your school.

What school do you go to?
Perhaps we can give you an idea of which GPA conversion scale is used.

no i havent applied to the US before.
My UG was done at McGill.
Is there a link where I can find info to convert my GPA?

 

[MadHopsMD]

no i havent applied to the US before.
My UG was done at McGill.
Is there a link where I can find info to convert my GPA?

If you go to UofT than your GPA is the same as your UofT calculated one. The OMSAS and UofT are little different, but in the end your GPA is about the same. However, if you go to queens or western you do get a boost b/c 80+ is a 4.0. unlike omsas which gives a 3.7 for 80-85.

2) If I want to go to school in the Northeast (i.e. NY, NJ, NH, ME, MA, PA), which schools are "friendliest" to canadians [for lack of a better term, which have been known to accept the most canadians]

Schools you may want to consider:
Albert Einstein - NY
NYMC - NY
SUNY Upstate - NY (not private, but I applied and got interviewed, they accept Canadians)
Yale - CT (Its a long shot, but why not try? they have a great financial aid for foreign students, they explained it all to me on interview day, so for more info on that send me a pm and I'll get back to u)
Cornell - NY
NYU - NY
Boston U - MA
Albany - NY
GW - DC (not on your list, but its a great school and I recommend giving it a shot)
Mt. Sinai - NY
Tufts - MA

I also applied to Vermont but haven't heard back yet and I doubt I will (anything positive that is). I think it is hard enough to get into that school if you are out of state.

The AMCAS application is very different the the OMSAS (for Ontario) application, so keep that in mind.

and for the most important bit of advice.... APPLY AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE

Anyways, I am a Canadian too (3.7/34). And I got interviews to SUNY upstate (Low priority waitlist) and University of Vermont (acceptance). So definitely apply to University of Vermont (UVM)! In fact I know 2 other canadians who have interviews there with similar stats like you. I think like all schools they look for something different in your application. Some of this "something different" doesnt over lap, since I didnt get any love from many of those above schools

My strongest suggestion as a Canadian is: APPLY EARLY (J months) and APPLY BROADLY. B/c with this process you never know for sure...

 

[Yehosh]

Good point YankeeCanuck, I guess I just struck out with Vermont, so it's good to know Canadians got accepted at Vermont. I have other acceptances so far so I'm not too disraught about it. Congrats on Vermont

Regarding the GPA, what has been said is all very true. I went to UWO for undergrad and my Omsas GPA was 3.89. When my AMCAS was verified, I was surprised to this that my US GPA was 3.94, 0.05 is a BIG differenece.

I am pretty sure your GPA conversion for McGill will be just as "generous" has UWO, so my guess is that any 80+ is a 4.0. But you may want to call AMCAS for more details.

One last bit of advice. Demand Victory. Sounds cliche, but my point is, don't think for some schools "I got no chance because I'm Canadian/GPA/Resume... so there is no point in applying". Instead, apply broadly and early to anywhere you think you have the slightest chance of getting into. That includes the top schools.

 

[mikkey]

Hey
I check on the AMCAS website and I found their tables for conversions and there seems to be no such thing as GPA increases...
Where did you guys find this info?

 

[DrZeke]

no i havent applied to the US before.
My UG was done at McGill.
Is there a link where I can find info to convert my GPA?

Hey DantheMan,

There are a lot of good schools here that you can apply to that will look favorably upon your application. I have American residence, so I am in a different category, but Yankee Canuck and Yehosh are making very good points. Apply to every school they mentioned and I'm confident that you will be accepted. It's typical for people to apply to 15 schools in an application cycle.

 

[MadHopsMD]

Hey
I check on the AMCAS website and I found their tables for conversions and there seems to be no such thing as GPA increases...
Where did you guys find this info?

your GPA DOES NOT INCREASE! It's they way they calculate it.

For Western/Queens:

4.0 = 80-100
3.0 = 70-79
2.0 = 60-69

For UofT:

4.0 = 85-100
3.7 = 80-84
3.3 = 76-79
3.0 = 72-75

It sucks to go to UofT -- when you realise that the AMCAS people do not use the Western/Queens scale. Because I have a bucket load of marks between 80-85, my cumulative GPA goes up from 3.72 to 3.86. But since I went to UofT it stays 3.72. Anyways, I am not sure how the scale is for York/Mac/McGill and other universities, but I bet its similar to the Western/Queens scale. The only way to find out is when you submit your AMCAS, or ask a SDN member who went to that school and has applied before...

And to the OP: I agree Yehosh said apply everywhere even top 20s. You never know where you will get an interview! And of course make sure you apply to UVM so you can join me

 

[fruits&passion]

hmmmm what if you transfer from toronto to uwo or queen's? would that change how your grades are calculated? lol. probably not.

 

[Kiara]

your GPA DOES NOT INCREASE! It's they way they calculate it.

For Western/Queens:

4.0 = 80-100
3.0 = 70-79
2.0 = 60-69

For UofT:

4.0 = 85-100
3.7 = 80-84
3.3 = 76-79
3.0 = 72-75

It sucks to go to UofT -- when you realise that the AMCAS people do not use the Western/Queens scale. Because I have a bucket load of marks between 80-85, my cumulative GPA goes up from 3.72 to 3.86. But since I went to UofT it stays 3.72. Anyways, I am not sure how the scale is for York/Mac/McGill and other universities, but I bet its similar to the Western/Queens scale. The only way to find out is when you submit your AMCAS, or ask a SDN member who went to that school and has applied before...

And to the OP: I agree Yehosh said apply everywhere even top 20s. You never know where you will get an interview! And of course make sure you apply to UVM so you can join me

Heyy, Im just a bit confused about the grade conversion

I found the whole grid for Canadian universities on Amcas and their breakdowns dont correspond to the one you talked about. Their breakdown doesnt even correspond to any of UofT's breakdown's!

http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/
2008amcasgradeconversionguide.pdf

Anyone else figure this out?

p.s. im applying this year too..and im canadian, from uoft and mac

 

[omegaxx]

Heyy, Im just a bit confused about the grade conversion

I found the whole grid for Canadian universities on Amcas and their breakdowns dont correspond to the one you talked about. Their breakdown doesnt even correspond to any of UofT's breakdown's!

http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/
2008amcasgradeconversionguide.pdf

Anyone else figure this out?

p.s. im applying this year too..and im canadian, from uoft and mac

Your AMCAS GPA will be higher or equal to your OMSAS GPA. That appears to be the consensus.

Re: schools, I'd definitely chuck out Boston U as none of my friends ever got an interview there, including a brilliant girl who's now attending UT.

Also I've heard that American schools put more emphasis on the reference letters, which in some Canadian schools (e.g. UBC) are only used as screening tools, so it's worth your while to get the best ones you can get.

 

[WKK]

I compared by OMSAS and AMCAS GPA calculations. My AMCAS GPA is higher because AMCAS considers 85 and above to be 4.0, whereas OMSAS considers 85-89 to be 3.90. Both consider 80-84 to be 3.70.

The advantage to AMCAS is that your GPA will be higher if you have 85-89's. But if you have lots of 90+, it doesn't distinguish you as well from other applicants. In my applicant version of the completed AMCAS, there's a column for "OT (Official Transcript) Grade" where A's (85-89) and A+'s (90+) are listed. But the "AMCAS Grade" is listed in another column and all 85+ marks are listed as A's (However, they distinguish between A's and A-'s...). The actual number grade doesn't appear. I don't know whether the schools see both columns.

definitely, APPLY EARLY. I really regret not having submitted my AMCAS until around the OMSAS deadline...

good luck!

 

[seekingwisdom]

How are you guys planning to come back to Canada for residency? Do we have to take Canadian boards and USMLE or what's the deal?

 

[holafarita]

i don't know if this helps, but over the past two years in my 5 interviews (and no acceptances ) i've only met 1 Canadian and that was at an SLU interview....so i know they're Canadian-friendly. just my little tidbit...

Maybe add SLU to the list?

 

[hp540]

As a canadian as well, you might also consider the school's financial aid policy towards non-US citizens.

Of some of the schools mentioned by previous posters, i.e. Mt. Sinai/Northwestern, they make it clear on their website that they provide NO financial aid/help whatsoever to international applicants. This is in sharp contrast to other schools such as Yale etc. It'll be worth your while to go over their admissions websites before throwing down the $30AMCAS fee + secondary fees only to realize there's no way for you to foot the tuition.

 

[M.Furfur]

i don't know if this helps, but over the past two years in my 5 interviews (and no acceptances ) i've only met 1 Canadian and that was at an SLU interview....so i know they're Canadian-friendly. just my little tidbit...

Maybe add SLU to the list?

SLU? I thought they dont accept international students.

 

[Lonelion87]

I'm a Canadian attending an American liberal arts school...are there any of you out there in a similar situation with any success stories/tips regarding the application process?

I'm assuming I would be considered a Canadian by nationality, but American by credentials. I also recognize that there are schools that don't like to offer Canucks funding...this was made quite clear in my undergraduate school search.

Other than that, any tips for Canadians already studying in the U.S.?

 

[cleothecat]

Chicago Medical School (Rosalind Franklin University) has an awesome program, and is Canadian friendly.

The Canadian Medical Association has helped Canadians studying down south to arrange financing and LOC from Canadian banks.

 

[jochi1543]

I'm a Canadian attending an American liberal arts school...are there any of you out there in a similar situation with any success stories/tips regarding the application process?

I'm assuming I would be considered a Canadian by nationality, but American by credentials. I also recognize that there are schools that don't like to offer Canucks funding...this was made quite clear in my undergraduate school search.

Other than that, any tips for Canadians already studying in the U.S.?

I'm also a Canadian (permanent resident) who attended a US high school and liberal arts college. I was explicitly told by a couple of adcoms - although I don't remember which schools, specifically - that having a US degree is an advantage.

What LAC do you attend? You can PM me if you don't wanna post it in public.

 

[jochi1543]

The Canadian Medical Association has helped Canadians studying down south to arrange financing and LOC from Canadian banks.

Oh? Care to elaborate? I don't have a cosignor in either US or Canada, so unless I get support from my father, I cannot afford to attend a US med school. But if I can somehow get around the cosignor/equity requirement, it'd be awesome. One day my father says he'll pay for everything AND buy me an apartment, the next day he's screaming that he will not send me another dime for applications, so he's not particularly reliable, and I really need another funding source that's more predictable.

 

[Lonelion87]

Oh? Care to elaborate? I don't have a cosignor in either US or Canada, so unless I get support from my father, I cannot afford to attend a US med school. But if I can somehow get around the cosignor/equity requirement, it'd be awesome. One day my father says he'll pay for everything AND buy me an apartment, the next day he's screaming that he will not send me another dime for applications, so he's not particularly reliable, and I really need another funding source that's more predictable.

Jochi, thanks for lending a hand. Oddly enough, my situation is similar to yours.

I too attended an US High School (the Berkshire School) and I'm currently entering 3rd year of Honors Biology at Hamilton College in Clinton, New York. It is in the middle of no where so I suspect you may have never heard of it.

Where did you go?

 

[dideoxy]

Anyone know which scale they would use for UBC? None of those listed on the AMCAS conversion guide match our grade:letter grade conversion exactly so I'm wondering which they'd pick...

 

[jochi1543]

Jochi, thanks for lending a hand. Oddly enough, my situation is similar to yours.

I too attended an US High School (the Berkshire School) and I'm currently entering 3rd year of Honors Biology at Hamilton College in Clinton, New York. It is in the middle of no where so I suspect you may have never heard of it.

Where did you go?

I've heard of Hamilton, but not of Berkshire. Which state is it in?

I attended HS in Maryland and college in Minnesota.

 

[Lonelion87]

I've heard of Hamilton, but not of Berkshire. Which state is it in?

I attended HS in Maryland and college in Minnesota.

Berkshire is in south west Massachusetts...also in the middle of no where. See a trend?

I asked this in the 'Canada' forum, but what do you think the chances are of Canadian citizens studying in the U.S. are when they apply back to Canada? I have heard conflicting reports. I have a relative who serves on the UofT admissions committee from time to time, and he says GPAs and MCATs aren't typically very high, but the fact that I come from a "no-name" university may complicate things a bit.

And oh, this site is so dizzying. There is WAY too much stuff on here eh?

 

[jochi1543]

Berkshire is in south west Massachusetts...also in the middle of no where. See a trend?

I asked this in the 'Canada' forum, but what do you think the chances are of Canadian citizens studying in the U.S. are when they apply back to Canada? I have heard conflicting reports. I have a relative who serves on the UofT admissions committee from time to time, and he says GPAs and MCATs aren't typically very high, but the fact that I come from a "no-name" university may complicate things a bit.

And oh, this site is so dizzying. There is WAY too much stuff on here eh?

What do you mean by "GPAs and MCATs aren't typically very high" - for all of U of T's applicants (which is not true) or for Canadians applying to U of T from US undergrads?

 

[Lonelion87]

What do you mean by "GPAs and MCATs aren't typically very high" - for all of U of T's applicants (which is not true) or for Canadians applying to U of T from US undergrads?

Well the discussion went as follows...

I was ranting to him how it is rediculous that the "cut-offs" for MCATs and GPAs at Ontario universities are higher than the average accepted stats for 'ivy' quality American medical schools. He said, speaking for his experiences at UofT, that the admissible MCAT and GPAs aren't nearly as high as they are hyped up to be at UofT.

I guess I should quantify 'very high' as MCAT 35+ and GPA 3.8+. These were also the stats that I gave him.

EDIT: I have zero knowledge about Canadians applying from US Undergrads, have you heard any stories from people who have done this?

 

[jochi1543]

Well the discussion went as follows...

I was ranting to him how it is rediculous that the "cut-offs" for MCATs and GPAs at Ontario universities are higher than the average accepted stats for 'ivy' quality American medical schools. He said, speaking for his experiences at UofT, that the admissible MCAT and GPAs aren't nearly as high as they are hyped up to be at UofT.

I guess I should quantify 'very high' as MCAT 35+ and GPA 3.8+. These were also the stats that I gave him.

EDIT: I have zero knowledge about Canadians applying from US Undergrads, have you heard any stories from people who have done this?

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense given how U of T's own website "hypes up" that you need a 3.8 GPA to be competitive. Granted, this is weighted GPA, so realistically it's probably a 3.7 cumulative, but still. Also, the weighting formula doesn't apply to everyone - I took "only" 26 credits in my senior year, and can't take advantage of it, so I'm not applying.

 

[Lonelion87]

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense given how U of T's own website "hypes up" that you need a 3.8 GPA to be competitive. Granted, this is weighted GPA, so realistically it's probably a 3.7 cumulative, but still. Also, the weighting formula doesn't apply to everyone - I took "only" 26 credits in my senior year, and can't take advantage of it, so I'm not applying.

Don't shoot the messenger! I'm just relaying what he told me...but, I just can't believe he's making it up considering he donates time for the AdComm and would probably know these things. I brought up the fact about the website and he still felt the same about the numbers. I see him again in a week so I'll bug him about it and let you know what he comes back with.

 

[viscous]

I constantly keep on hearing that international students SHOULD apply early. Would anyone care to elaborate what month is considered 'early'?

Also, on AMCAS 2008 conversion guide, if you look on page 3 in table titled 'Five or more Passing grades, alpha +/-', youll find the scheme used by UofT. More specifically, the second row of 'Alpha' grades exactly correspond to the system used by UofT.

 

[cleothecat]

Early means have AMCAS submitted along with transcripts by second week in June

Have all required LOR's in your Interfolio account ready to go by early June

Complete all received secondaries and submit them within 2 weeks of receiving the secondary apps

Hope to start interviewing early September.

 

[relf]

can anyone elaborate on the process that a Canadian who is trained at a US school would take to either enter residency in the USA or Canada?

 

[viscous]

Early means have AMCAS submitted along with transcripts by second week in June

Have all required LOR's in your Interfolio account ready to go by early June

Complete all received secondaries and submit them within 2 weeks of receiving the secondary apps

Hope to start interviewing early September.

thanks. And what would be considered 'early' for the secondaries? More specifically what kind of information do secondaries ask for?

 

[ColKurtz]

thanks. And what would be considered 'early' for the secondaries? More specifically what kind of information do secondaries ask for?

Completing a secondary within a week or two is pretty good turn around time. Some have you write additional essays, and some just have you fill out personal information (address, schools attended, etc.).

 

[stixx]

Well the discussion went as follows...

I was ranting to him how it is rediculous that the "cut-offs" for MCATs and GPAs at Ontario universities are higher than the average accepted stats for 'ivy' quality American medical schools. He said, speaking for his experiences at UofT, that the admissible MCAT and GPAs aren't nearly as high as they are hyped up to be at UofT.

Um, what?

Considering there's less than 15 medical schools in Canada, what's stopping top applicants from applying to every single one? Nothing. That forces them to use GPA/MCAT heavily because that's the only way to handle all the volume. They can't afford to read through all the apps and say, "oh, well this person has a really great life story so we'll forgive the GPA" like the ivy league.

I'd say 3.75 is the bare minimum to even bother applying to UofT. (cue: but my one friend of a friend of a friend got in with a 3.0 8 years ago!)

 

[Vihsadas]

Um, what?

Considering there's less than 15 medical schools in Canada, what's stopping top applicants from applying to every single one? Nothing. That forces them to use GPA/MCAT heavily because that's the only way to handle all the volume. They can't afford to read through all the apps and say, "oh, well this person has a really great life story so we'll forgive the GPA" like the ivy league.

I'd say 3.75 is the bare minimum to even bother applying to UofT. (cue: but my one friend of a friend of a friend got in with a 3.0 8 years ago!)

I did the math a while ago...There are the same number of medical school seats per capita in Canada and in the US. In fact, I think that Canada actually had a few more because of the french schools.

I'm not quite sure why there is generally a higher GPA avg in Canada...but it definitely is harder to get into medical school in canada unless you are in in province student anywhere other than Ontario, Quebec, and Alberta. I have a feeling that this is because, on average, canada graduates more Bachelor's degrees than the US per capita.

 

[littlealex]

Case Western seems friendly towards Canadians.

 

[M3dhop3ful]

I did the math a while ago...There are the same number of medical school seats per capita in Canada and in the US. In fact, I think that Canada actually had a few more because of the french schools.

I'm not quite sure why there is generally a higher GPA avg in Canada...but it definitely is harder to get into medical school in canada unless you are in in province student anywhere other than Ontario, Quebec, and Alberta. I have a feeling that this is because, on average, canada graduates more Bachelor's degrees than the US per capita.

I think there is more to it like that. IP and OOP pools are very disparate, moreso than OS and OOS in the US. Given NOSM's commitment to rural medicine and the french schools, the seats become 'trapped' by certain applicant pools. Thus you can't really look at seats/capita because 'capita' is not homogenous