Biden Out of Race

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The Trump administration is reportedly discussing the possibility of providing Iran access to as much as $30 bln to build a civilian-energy-producing nuclear program, as well as through easing sanctions and freeing up blns of dollars in restricted Iranian funds, as part of a plan to deescalate tensions with Iran and bring them back to the negotiating table for a future nuclear deal with the US - CNN citing 2 sources familiar with the matter.

Sounds pretty similar to what we had before trump blew it up in multiple ways. Except now we are just trying to even talk.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
I’d say the various people surrounding Israel have always been predisposed to violence in the name of their religion. They’ve always been dealt with harshly by whoever was in charge for the past several hundred years.

The only time there’s been relative peace in the region was when the entire place was ruled by Sultans.

Similarly Today, there are no democratic states in the region that are majority Muslim, they’re all monarchies or authoritarian states.

Israel is just the latest in an incredibly long line of harsh rulers for the people surrounding the area that comprises the Israeli state. Historically, they’re much less repressive than any of the former masters of these states in Syria, Gaza, Lebanon, etc.

So I’m not going to hold Israel solely responsible for the violence of a region that has only known repression and autocracy for the last 800 years.
Click to expand...

A rather myopic and hopeless viewpoint. Just because humans annihilated other innocent humans at the whims of some sultan or monarch doesn’t mean a present day democracy gets a pass. You can look the other way all you want for whatever reason you choose. I think Israel has gone way too far and the United States needs to distance itself from the Israeli government. And I think Netanyahu should end up in The Hague.

Netanyahu

www.icc-cpi.int www.icc-cpi.int
 
How are we all feeling about the mouth of Sauron?

Screenshot 2025-06-26 at 5.54.24 PM.png
 
Southpaw said:
A rather myopic and hopeless viewpoint. Just because humans annihilated other innocent humans at the whims of some sultan or monarch doesn’t mean a present day democracy gets a pass. You can look the other way all you want for whatever reason you choose. I think Israel has gone way too far and the United States needs to distance itself from the Israeli government. And I think Netanyahu should end up in The Hague.

Netanyahu

www.icc-cpi.int www.icc-cpi.int
Click to expand...
Thanks for noticing, I do think it’s a bit hopeless haha

I think there’s a case to be made that Israel has gone too far. Unfortunately for the people who believe that, by your own admission, it’s a bit of a fringe opinion where the adults of the world are concerned, based on voting patterns related to the issue and policy responses throughout the world. Except in Iran, of course, who was willing to do something about it and got their butts handed to them promptly

I’m gonna go with the rest of the world leaders on this one. Always have
 
DocMcCoy said:
Definitely a missed opportunity on our part. We were positioned to parlay our Iran involvement with some Gaza concessions. It could have been as simple as letting a little more aid through or even getting Netanyahu to tone down the shooting of starving people waiting in food lines.
Click to expand...


Hopefully there is some truth to this.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'Trump and Netanyahu agreed to end Gaza war in weeks': Israeli media

Donald Trump and Netanyahu agreed on a rapid end to the war in Gaza during a phone call after the US bombing of Iranian nuclear sites, Israeli media has reported.
www.dailymail.co.uk
 
PainInTheAnes said:
I’d say the various people surrounding Israel have always been predisposed to violence in the name of their religion. They’ve always been dealt with harshly by whoever was in charge for the past several hundred years.

The only time there’s been relative peace in the region was when the entire place was ruled by Sultans.

Similarly Today, there are no democratic states in the region that are majority Muslim, they’re all monarchies or authoritarian states.

Israel is just the latest in an incredibly long line of harsh rulers for the people surrounding the area that comprises the Israeli state. Historically, they’re much less repressive than any of the former masters of these states in Syria, Gaza, Lebanon, etc.

So I’m not going to hold Israel solely responsible for the violence of a region that has only known repression and autocracy for the last 800 years.
Click to expand...
www.timesofisrael.com

‘A killing field’: IDF said probing troops’ near-daily shooting of Gazans near aid sites as potential war crimes

* * *
www.timesofisrael.com www.timesofisrael.com
 
Southpaw said:
investigated and charged by who?
Click to expand...
Best hope is the IDF doing internal trials. If not them, you’re basically out of luck. To my knowledge no war crime convictions have ever been made by outside powers or groups unless the government or military they’re prosecuting has fallen or lost the conflict.
 
In the past (not recent) Israel has disciplined soldiers who behaved badly. Including prison. I suspect that has flown south for the winter.
 
Conservative Supreme Court just ruled on Trump's blatantly unconstitutional birthright citizenship order and decided to join in themselves by blocking national injunctions. Just completely ignoring the law and making up what they want. One of the most fundamental checks and balances set up by the Constitution has just been removed. Every day, we take a step toward dictatorship while MAGA cheers on.
 
Dragonite7 said:
Conservative Supreme Court just ruled on Trump's blatantly unconstitutional birthright citizenship order and decided to join in themselves by blocking national injunctions. Just completely ignoring the law and making up what they want. One of the most fundamental checks and balances set up by the Constitution has just been removed. Every day, we take a step toward dictatorship while MAGA cheers on.
Click to expand...
IMG_9975.jpeg
 
MirrorTodd said:
Doesn't matter...he was an illegal and very likely battle hardened secret MS-13 gang member, exactly the type the president said he'd go after.
Click to expand...
Yup.

I am sure that after they convict him, they will find all kinds of things to charge him with.
 
Sneaking back in for a quick look and read. Some of you still can't think straight with DJT derangement syndrome clouding your thoughts.

1. Hamas invaded Israel and Palestinians by active or passive means have supported Hamas. Israel found the opening to obliterate Hamas and Hezbollah. You start it, you better expect a stronger country to finish hit. If Cuba invaded the US and captured/killed thousands, you bet I would want the US to see the opening to end the communist regime along with any proxies.

2. Tarrifs - the sky is falling, economy will crash. Stock market all time high, prices seems about the same, current inflation rate is 2.3% which is much better than under JB.

3. Supreme court and Birth right - Look at the map and see that the majority of countries do not have birth right. Remember the left mantra of "let the courts decide". I guess this only applies to when JB was president.

4. Iran - Opening for Israel and to a lesser extent the US to destroy their military leadership/infrastructure while doing the same to their nuclear program. No one knows if the damage was equivalent to the "leaked" report or if it was DJT "obliterated". I expect it to be somewhere in the middle and put them back years. All of their head scientists are dead, their military in shambles, their leadership destabilized, their economy wrecked, their nuclear sites bombed. Add all of this up, and their nuclear program has been set back years if not decades. But some on here will hang their hat on some "leaked report" similar to the Steele Dossier as bible. The left sometimes never learn.

5. Immigration - DJT can't touch Obama's deportation with a 10 ft pole. There has been about 60K deported since DJT took over in Jan. I don't remember any "king" protest when Obama deported 400K+ year in 2013. I am sure the millions Obama deported were all gang bangers. Where was the left uproar when their people's president deported millions? Wake me up when DJT gets even close to the same stratosphere as Obama or even JB. JB deported more than DJT = kind man of the people who loves immigrants. Lets not let facts cloud the fake outrage.

6. DJT brokered the Congo/Rwanda deal that has killed 6 millions during the prolonged/multiple wars. But wait, lets focus on the 50K or so who died in Gaza and nothing to see over in Africa. Selective outrage is great.

If JB won the presidency and the exact same past 6 months happened, you guys would allude this as a great start to his presidency with the wins in the Middle east, lower inflation rate, all time high stock market, and improved immigration.

The left continue to grasp at straws to find anything to criticize DJT. I fear some of you guys will be mentally unstable in 3.5 yrs. As I said, let the man cook and in 4 years everything will be fine.
 
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What exactly did the Supreme Court rule on birthright? Seems like they didn’t rule anything lol.

These Supreme Court justices go off on side tangents you guys claim I do all the time and not sticking to the original arguments.

So they didn’t rule on birthright? But rule federal judges can’t impose nation wide injunction on presidential executive orders?? Like wtf
 
UscGhost said:
Yup.

I am sure that after they convict him, they will find all kinds of things to charge him with.
Click to expand...
Correct. If you dig enough at anyone. You will find evidence. That’s why Biden pardons all his family members. Preemptively.
 
Dragonite7 said:
Conservative Supreme Court just ruled on Trump's blatantly unconstitutional birthright citizenship order and decided to join in themselves by blocking national injunctions. Just completely ignoring the law and making up what they want. One of the most fundamental checks and balances set up by the Constitution has just been removed. Every day, we take a step toward dictatorship while MAGA cheers on.
Click to expand...
Not going to argue any particular point but during JB presidency, left activists judges was explained to me as "let the judicial process work and be patient". Now the new mantra is "checks and balance removed to dictatorship"

Can't have it both ways. Seems like the tune changes depending on your "feelings"
 
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emergentmd said:
Sneaking back in for a quick look and read. Some of you still can't think straight with DJT derangement syndrome clouding your thoughts.

1. Hamas invaded Israel and Palestinians by active or passive means have supported Hamas. Israel found the opening to obliterate Hamas and Hezbollah. You start it, you better expect a stronger country to finish hit. If Cuba invaded the US and captured/killed thousands, you bet I would want the US to see the opening to end the communist regime along with any proxies.
Click to expand...

While the rest of your post, like all of your posts, is easy enough to ignore bc it’s all ‘DJT is so good for reasons’ nonsense, you really need to do some reading on Israel and Palestine. Any sort of analogy would be difficult, but blinding tossing out ‘if Cuba invaded the US….’ nonsense is just intellectual laziness.
 
Southpaw said:
While the rest of your post, like all of your posts, is easy enough to ignore bc it’s all ‘DJT is so good for reasons’ nonsense, you really need to do some reading on Israel and Palestine. Any sort of analogy would be difficult, but blinding tossing out ‘if Cuba invaded the US….’ nonsense is just intellectual laziness.
Click to expand...
More feelings and selective outrage. Maybe you should consider giving people the benefit of the doubt and let them do the job they were elected to do instead of jumping on every single MSNBC talking point and parroting your feeeeeeeelings.....

But carry on. Only another 3.5 yrs until Vance gets elected if things DJT continues to rack up wins.

Be back in a month or so to get a good laugh at the DJT derangement syndrome gone amok
 
emergentmd said:
More feelings and selective outrage. Maybe you should consider giving people the benefit of the doubt and let them do the job they were elected to do instead of jumping on every single MSNBC talking point and parroting your feeeeeeeelings.....

But carry on. Only another 3.5 yrs until Vance gets elected if things DJT continues to rack up wins.

Be back in a month or so to get a good laugh at the DJT derangement syndrome gone amok
Click to expand...

Read what I wrote:

- a desired understanding of the Israel/Palestinian conflict, and not some lazy ‘hey let’s say Cuba invaded the US…what would we do???’ analogy)

Read your response:

- something unrelated to my post

These things are incongruous. Unless you attempt to make them congruous I don’t care to engage. There’s really nothing interesting anymore related to arguing all things Trump. Everyone has their heels dug in.
 
emergentmd said:
Not going to argue any particular point but during JB presidency, left activists judges was explained to me as "let the judicial process work and be patient". Now the new mantra is "checks and balance removed to dictatorship"

Can't have it both ways. Seems like the tune changes depending on your "feelings"
Click to expand...
What are you even talking about? The tune never changed. I never supported, or even thought of this as a possibility because it's an insane dismantling of fundamental railguards. And Biden was never a corrupt autocrat wiping his ass with the Constitution like Trump.
 
Dragonite7 said:
And Biden was never a corrupt autocrat wiping his ass with the Constitution like Trump.
Click to expand...
More feelings. SCOTUS will slap him down if he violates the rule of law and constitution. Looks like DJT has been more on the right side of the law than not. I will agree that JB was not capable of wiping his A$$.
 
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Southpaw said:
Read what I wrote:

- a desired understanding of the Israel/Palestinian conflict, and not some lazy ‘hey let’s say Cuba invaded the US…what would we do???’ analogy)

Read your response:

- something unrelated to my post

These things are incongruous. Unless you attempt to make them congruous I don’t care to engage. There’s really nothing interesting anymore related to arguing all things Trump. Everyone has their heels dug in.
Click to expand...
I’m actually changing my opinions on the Israel Palestine situation in some ways the past few weeks.

I think the people in the region have been used as pawns for far too long by outside entities to the point where it’s stunted their own ability to properly self determine without the influence of foreign governments pushing extremism in the area.

Hamas is currently funded by Iran, and given quarter by a bunch of other petrostates in the area. If Israel meaningfully destroys irans ability to do this it could cut off the body of the Hamas snake and render the leadership useless in continuing their government of Palestine.

If Hamas is dependent on Iran there could still be hope for a multinational effort to rebuild Gaza since once the funding dries up for extremism it could very well dial back after a few years.

No one around to recruit to Hamas? No more Hamas. No one to fund the next extremist groups? No more extremist groups. Even grass roots organization takes some monetary backing these days
 
PainInTheAnes said:
I’m actually changing my opinions on the Israel Palestine situation in some ways the past few weeks.

I think the people in the region have been used as pawns for far too long by outside entities to the point where it’s stunted their own ability to properly self determine without the influence of foreign governments pushing extremism in the area.

Hamas is currently funded by Iran, and given quarter by a bunch of other petrostates in the area. If Israel meaningfully destroys irans ability to do this it could cut off the body of the Hamas snake and render the leadership useless in continuing their government of Palestine.

If Hamas is dependent on Iran there could still be hope for a multinational effort to rebuild Gaza since once the funding dries up for extremism it could very well dial back after a few years.

No one around to recruit to Hamas? No more Hamas. No one to fund the next extremist groups? No more extremist groups. Even grass roots organization takes some monetary backing these days
Click to expand...

Well I definitely feel like Gazans are being used as both pawns and target practice. It's disgusting on a human level. Hamas has been supported historically by Qatar by way of both Netanyahu and multiple American administrations (to the tune of $30 million a month). This was their way of 'controlling Hamas'. Worked out great for everyone, right? If you look at this from Netanyahu's perspective, he's gotten/getting everything he wanted. Netanyahu doesn't want the war to end. When it does he'll have to face the corruption charges for which he's likely guilty, and either head to exile or The Hague (where he really belongs). If Israel really cared about crushing Hamas they'd treat Gazans fairly and with equality. They wouldn't starve them with blockades or murder women and children. I think all Israel has done with their actions has created the next wave of Hamas militants, with perhaps even more resolve.
 
emergentmd said:
Sneaking back in for a quick look and read. Some of you still can't think straight with DJT derangement syndrome clouding your thoughts.

1. Hamas invaded Israel and Palestinians by active or passive means have supported Hamas. Israel found the opening to obliterate Hamas and Hezbollah. You start it, you better expect a stronger country to finish hit. If Cuba invaded the US and captured/killed thousands, you bet I would want the US to see the opening to end the communist regime along with any proxies.

2. Tarrifs - the sky is falling, economy will crash. Stock market all time high, prices seems about the same, current inflation rate is 2.3% which is much better than under JB.

3. Supreme court and Birth right - Look at the map and see that the majority of countries do not have birth right. Remember the left mantra of "let the courts decide". I guess this only applies to when JB was president.

4. Iran - Opening for Israel and to a lesser extent the US to destroy their military leadership/infrastructure while doing the same to their nuclear program. No one knows if the damage was equivalent to the "leaked" report or if it was DJT "obliterated". I expect it to be somewhere in the middle and put them back years. All of their head scientists are dead, their military in shambles, their leadership destabilized, their economy wrecked, their nuclear sites bombed. Add all of this up, and their nuclear program has been set back years if not decades. But some on here will hang their hat on some "leaked report" similar to the Steele Dossier as bible. The left sometimes never learn.

5. Immigration - DJT can't touch Obama's deportation with a 10 ft pole. There has been about 60K deported since DJT took over in Jan. I don't remember any "king" protest when Obama deported 400K+ year in 2013. I am sure the millions Obama deported were all gang bangers. Where was the left uproar when their people's president deported millions? Wake me up when DJT gets even close to the same stratosphere as Obama or even JB. JB deported more than DJT = kind man of the people who loves immigrants. Lets not let facts cloud the fake outrage.

6. DJT brokered the Congo/Rwanda deal that has killed 6 millions during the prolonged/multiple wars. But wait, lets focus on the 50K or so who died in Gaza and nothing to see over in Africa. Selective outrage is great.

If JB won the presidency and the exact same past 6 months happened, you guys would allude this as a great start to his presidency with the wins in the Middle east, lower inflation rate, all time high stock market, and improved immigration.

The left continue to grasp at straws to find anything to criticize DJT. I fear some of you guys will be mentally unstable in 3.5 yrs. As I said, let the man cook and in 4 years everything will be fine.
Click to expand...

Translation:


1. I don't mind the genocide of tens of thousands of children and non-combatants, and I'm so ignorant I think the entire Israel-Palestine conflict started on Oct 7.

2. I'm apparently unaware that Wall St is pricing in the TACO trade where they believe trump will eventually back down to 10% everywhere and/or the International Trade Court block will stand. I forgot when Wall St *actually* believed they were going into effect, the market was down 20%. I'm also ignorant of the fact that the lag time for price increases with tariffs is months because companies front run their inventory in anticipation. Also also, I don't care that trump has been screaming over and over for months to fire Powell and cut rates prematurely, which would've spiked inflation dramatically.

3. Who cares that the 14th Amendment is crystal clear on the issue? Daddy DJT tells me otherwise and those meanie courts who are upholding the Constitution are trying to stop daddy.

4. Please don't remember that just 5 minutes ago we MAGA were proclaiming that trump was the president of peace and Kamala and Nikki Haley were the warmongers. I also don't care one lick whether there is any verifiable, 3rd party evidence that the uranium hasn't been moved or whether the centrifuges have actually been destroyed .

5. Let me imply how tough Obama and JB were on immigration with all their deportations and simultaneously bitch about how weak Democrats are on immigration. No cognitive dissonance there!

6. My daddy trump has a heart of gold. I'm sure there was no ulterior motive in brokering peace in countries (i.e. "sh|thole countries") he couldn't find on map to save his life. Trump: ""We're getting, for the United States, a lot of the mineral rights from the Congo as part of it. They're so honored to be here. They never thought they'd be coming.""
 
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vector2 said:
Translation:


1. I don't mind the genocide of tens of thousands of children and non-combatants, and I'm so ignorant I think the entire Israel-Palestine conflict started on Oct 7.
Click to expand...

Agree that the conflict didn't start October 7. Wouldn't use the term "genocide". I care about as much as the average American of he past generations did about the innocents of Dresden, Hiroshima, etc.


vector2 said:
2. I'm apparently unaware that Wall St is pricing in the TACO trade where they believe trump will eventually back down to 10% everywhere and/or the International Trade Court block will stand. I forgot when Wall St *actually* believed they were going into effect, the market was down 20%. I'm also ignorant of the fact that the lag time for price increases with tariffs is months because companies front run their inventory in anticipation. Also also, I don't care that trump has been screaming over and over for months to fire Powell and cut rates prematurely, which would've spiked inflation dramatically.
Click to expand...
Agree.
vector2 said:
3. Who cares that the 14th Amendment is crystal clear on the issue? Daddy DJT tells me otherwise and those meanie courts who are upholding the Constitution are trying to stop daddy.
Click to expand...
THe Supreme Court did not rule on the merits of the case. It was a procedural issue, namely that a single federal district court could not void an executive order and set national policy. There will be continuing proceedings. I do agree that this order does seem to violate the 14th amendment.

vector2 said:
4. Please don't remember that just 5 minutes ago we MAGA were proclaiming that trump was the president of peace and Kamala and Nikki Haley were the warmongers. I also don't care one lick whether there is any verifiable, 3rd party evidence that the uranium hasn't been moved or whether the centrifuges have actually been destroyed .
Click to expand...
No objection to taking steps to prevent a country from having nukes that calls us the Great Satan and has "Death to America Day' Has sponsored monstrous proxies and responsible for the deaths of American servicemen in Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon.
vector2 said:
5. Let me imply how tough Obama and JB were on immigration with all their deportations and simultaneously bitch about how weak Democrats are on immigration. No cognitive dissonance there!
Click to expand...
Obama was reasonable on immigration. Joe Biden not at all. Shameful in fact.
vector2 said:
6. My daddy trump has a heart of gold. I'm sure there was no ulterior motive in brokering peace in countries (i.e. "sh|thole countries") he couldn't find on map to save his life. Trump: ""We're getting, for the United States, a lot of the mineral rights from the Congo as part of it. They're so honored to be here. They never thought they'd be coming.""
Click to expand...
Agree.
 
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Southpaw said:
Well I definitely feel like Gazans are being used as both pawns and target practice. It's disgusting on a human level. Hamas has been supported historically by Qatar by way of both Netanyahu and multiple American administrations (to the tune of $30 million a month). This was their way of 'controlling Hamas'. Worked out great for everyone, right? If you look at this from Netanyahu's perspective, he's gotten/getting everything he wanted. Netanyahu doesn't want the war to end. When it does he'll have to face the corruption charges for which he's likely guilty, and either head to exile or The Hague (where he really belongs). If Israel really cared about crushing Hamas they'd treat Gazans fairly and with equality. They wouldn't starve them with blockades or murder women and children. I think all Israel has done with their actions has created the next wave of Hamas militants, with perhaps even more resolve.
Click to expand...
There’s no real reason to assume that the next generation is radicalized by the oppression of Israel once the conflict ends. It could truly be Hamas doing the majority of the propaganda work, I’m coming around to that idea personally.

Once Hamas is defunded and made defunct by more pressure on Iran, things could certainly change for the better. This assumes a multi national governing effort is made to rebuild Gaza and deradicalize the schools and media there, which has been done to great effect in other conflicts without violence. Also assumes continued pressure on Iran to stop funding various proxies against the west. High time they stopped all of their terror cell support

I think your read on the Netanyahu situation is wrong though. No one is going to run him up on charges after this conflict. Any opposition based on his conduct in the war would be seen in mass rioting and protest which doesn’t seem to be there in Israel. Like it or not, Israel elected him and he enjoys a lot of popular support, or at least his party still does.
 
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nimbus said:
Radicalization and indoctrination starts early in the ME.


From 2012, pre-AI.


Click to expand...

I thought you hated when Republicans said "Both sides are the same"

Anyway, here's some interesting reading from the official government charter of Palestine and Gaza. Fair warning, very touchy subject matter discussed.

 
Huge revelation about MS-13 and Trump's deal with El Salvador: Bukele had a corrupt pact with MS-13 to siphon money, including money coming from US aid, to them in exchange for political support. This was first discovered years ago with extensive evidence, but US prosecutors were only just starting to investigate Bukele personally and the trail of money. Then Trump wins and strikes the deal with El Salvador. He gets his concentration camp, and El Salvador gets not just money, ... but a bunch of key arrested MS-13 leaders removed to El Salvador where they can disappear without any problematic testimony getting out. Investigators that Trump himself had appointed in his first term as part of the Vulcan task force were shocked at having their cases suddenly dropped and charges dismissed after years of work. It has a dark genius to it really - Trump gets to take credit for cracking down on MS-13 despite actually preserving a corrupt alliance, and he has Bukele's loyalty for keeping his corruption quiet.
 
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PainInTheAnes said:
I thought you hated when Republicans said "Both sides are the same"

Anyway, here's some interesting reading from the official government charter of Palestine and Gaza. Fair warning, very touchy subject matter discussed.

Click to expand...

No one here has denied Hamas is a terrorist organization and the world would be better off without. Some here, you included, seem invested emotionally in not admitting Israel engages in the same propaganda and brainwashing. If you don’t think the current Israeli government is radicalized you’re just looking the other way.
 
Southpaw said:
No one here has denied Hamas is a terrorist organization and the world would be better off without. Some here, you included, seem invested emotionally in not admitting Israel engages in the same propaganda and brainwashing. If you don’t think the current Israeli government is radicalized you’re just looking the other way.
Click to expand...
No I agree, look at the facts and both sides are the same. Just talk to any Israeli about how they feel about Gaza and Palestinians.

Like I said before, if they’re both hopelessly radicalized, the best solution may be to let them fight it out and see who wins.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
No I agree, look at the facts and both sides are the same. Just talk to any Israeli about how they feel about Gaza and Palestinians.

Like I said before, if they’re both hopelessly radicalized, the best solution may be to let them fight it out and see who wins.
Click to expand...
If both sides were the same, Israel would be carpet bombing and shelling population centers killing as many Palestinians as possible. Also not be putting their own soldiers in harms way.
 
Southpaw said:
In my opinion this is what they’ve done.
Click to expand...
As a qualifier to this, I would assume what’s meant is that they have killed as many Palestinians “as possible” based on what the international community will tolerate, rather than what they’re physically capable of doing.

The fact that Israel seems to bend to international pressure is a little weird though, given the wide support they enjoy throughout the democratic world.
 
Lab Lover said:
If both sides were the same, Israel would be carpet bombing and shelling population centers killing as many Palestinians as possible. Also not be putting their own soldiers in harms way.
Click to expand...
that's exactly what's happening, you have to be blind to not see that
 
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