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maxxor said:
Even if the paperwork was incorrectly done, she should not have been deported without a hearing.

I believe they deported her, ignoring the judge, because she was from a “Muslim” country.
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Looks like you guys were wrong on this one. There was a reason, and it was that she seemed to be very sad about a terrorist group's leader being killed.

Imagine someone on a visa attending a candlelight vigil for Osama Bin Laden and keeping pics of him on their phone and then expecting the state department to be fine with that.

www.nytimes.com

D.H.S. Sheds Light on Why It Deported Rhode Island Doctor

Dr. Rasha Alawieh was detained in Boston and denied entry when returning from a trip to Lebanon. The government says she attended a Hezbollah leader’s funeral.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

But hey, "racism" fits the dumb narrative.

This is why no one trusts the left or the news, by the way.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
Looks like you guys were wrong on this one. There was a reason, and it was that she seemed to be very sad about a terrorist group's leader being killed.

Imagine someone on a visa attending a candlelight vigil for Osama Bin Laden and keeping pics of him on their phone and then expecting the state department to be fine with that.

www.nytimes.com

D.H.S. Sheds Light on Why It Deported Rhode Island Doctor

Dr. Rasha Alawieh was detained in Boston and denied entry when returning from a trip to Lebanon. The government says she attended a Hezbollah leader’s funeral.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

But hey, "racism" fits the dumb narrative.

This is why no one trusts the left or the news, by the way.
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Do you think the Trump administration is correct in ignoring the judge's order and deporting her based on the publicly available evidence*?

*Attending a funeral and having "sympathetic photographs"
 
rowsdower88 said:
Do you think the Trump administration is correct in ignoring the judge's order and deporting her based on the publicly available evidence*?

*Attending a funeral and having "sympathetic photographs"
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Sounds like they didn't know about the court order before she was turned away (not "deported") at the entry, and I'm far more inclined to take that at face value than the "Trump personally ordered his brownshirt border agents (who were doing their job) to ignore this judge's order because he's a fascist rabble rabble rabble!"
 
PainInTheAnes said:
Sounds like they didn't know about the court order before she was turned away (not "deported") at the entry
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She was flown out of the country. Does that sound more like deporting someone or turning them away?

Per your source:

"According to the court docket, the government said on Monday that it was not aware of Judge Sorokin’s order when Dr. Alawieh’s plane took off. But Clare Saunders, one of the lawyers who was initially involved in the case, said in an affidavit filed over the weekend that she was at the airport Friday evening and had informed Customs and Border Protection officers of the judge’s order before the flight departed. Ms. Saunders is with Arnold & Porter, the firm that withdrew from the case on Sunday night."

I'll ask again, do you support the Trump administration and CBP ignoring the court's order here?
 
rowsdower88 said:
She was flown out of the country. Does that sound more like deporting someone or turning them away?

Per your source:

"According to the court docket, the government said on Monday that it was not aware of Judge Sorokin’s order when Dr. Alawieh’s plane took off. But Clare Saunders, one of the lawyers who was initially involved in the case, said in an affidavit filed over the weekend that she was at the airport Friday evening and had informed Customs and Border Protection officers of the judge’s order before the flight departed. Ms. Saunders is with Arnold & Porter, the firm that withdrew from the case on Sunday night."

I'll ask again, do you support the Trump administration and CBP ignoring the court's order here?
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Everyone knows Trump is a thug.

But we should not discount that illegal border crossing has decreased by >90%.

We all would want him to do things within the confines of the law. Unfortunately, it's too much to ask from such a flawed individual.
 
Splenda88 said:
Everyone knows Trump is a thug.

But we should not discount that illegal border crossing has decreased by >90%.

We all would want him to do things within the confines of the law. Unfortunately, it's too much to ask from such a flawed individual.
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I broke my ankle trying to follow that pivot.
 
rowsdower88 said:
She was flown out of the country. Does that sound more like deporting someone or turning them away?

Per your source:

"According to the court docket, the government said on Monday that it was not aware of Judge Sorokin’s order when Dr. Alawieh’s plane took off. But Clare Saunders, one of the lawyers who was initially involved in the case, said in an affidavit filed over the weekend that she was at the airport Friday evening and had informed Customs and Border Protection officers of the judge’s order before the flight departed. Ms. Saunders is with Arnold & Porter, the firm that withdrew from the case on Sunday night."

I'll ask again, do you support the Trump administration and CBP ignoring the court's order here?
Click to expand...
We can debate the exact timeline of who knew what here, which we don't definitively know, though I'm inclined to believe that if they say they didn't know about the order, that's the truth. I know I've had things done on a Friday evening get lost in the weekend shuffle, personally.

Regardless, this can all be brought out in a court of law, when we determine her rights were violated, as you seem be implying happened.

Wait a second, the lawyers ditched her? What a bunch of racists!
 
PainInTheAnes said:
We can debate the exact timeline of who knew what here, which we don't definitively know, though I'm inclined to believe that if they say they didn't know about the order, that's the truth. I know I've had things done on a Friday evening get lost in the weekend shuffle, personally.

Regardless, this can all be brought out in a court of law, when we determine her rights were violated, as you seem be implying happened.

Wait a second, the lawyers ditched her? What a bunch of racists!
Click to expand...

I'm inclined to believe the testimony of the lawyer who said she tried to stop the plane and was ignored.

I think her rights were violated, yes. Rights can still get violated on a Friday evening or during the weekend shuffle.
 
rowsdower88 said:
I'm inclined to believe the testimony of the lawyer who said she tried to stop the plane and was ignored.

I think her rights were violated, yes. Rights can still get violated on a Friday evening or during the weekend shuffle.
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Even if that individual is/was a "supporter" of Hezbollah, she should not be deported without due process.

The government can not just declare someone is [insert] and deport them without presenting their evidences in front of a court/judge. I don't think Americans of any party should turn a blind eye on stuff like that. It's a slippery slope.

Last time I checked, I am still living in the United States.
 
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rowsdower88 said:
I'm inclined to believe the testimony of the lawyer who said she tried to stop the plane and was ignored.

I think her rights were violated, yes. Rights can still get violated on a Friday evening or during the weekend shuffle.
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From what I’ve found the chief of the border people saw the order but requested a physical copy of it. Might be standard for them to need a physical affidavit.

Again the lawyers, including the one who filed the document, will be eager to defend her in the event that you’re correct.
 
Splenda88 said:
Even if that individual is/was a "supporter" of Hezbollah, she should not be deported without due process.

The government can not just declare someone is [insert] and deport them without presenting their evidences in front of a court/judge. I don't think Americans of any party should turn a blind eye on stuff like that. It's a slippery slope.

Last time I checked, I am still living in the United States.
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They totally can. Your rights at the border are different than in the country, and they’re way different if you’re asking to be let in on a visa.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
They totally can. Your rights at the border are different than in the country, and they’re way different if you’re asking to be let in on a visa.
Click to expand...
Great point. But they jail some guy that was protesting at Columbia University against Israel. He is a legal resident based on what I read on the news.

I know you are MAGA, but I don't think anyone should be ok for the government to circumvent the laws and due process.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
Looks like you guys were wrong on this one. There was a reason, and it was that she seemed to be very sad about a terrorist group's leader being killed.

Imagine someone on a visa attending a candlelight vigil for Osama Bin Laden and keeping pics of him on their phone and then expecting the state department to be fine with that.

www.nytimes.com

D.H.S. Sheds Light on Why It Deported Rhode Island Doctor

Dr. Rasha Alawieh was detained in Boston and denied entry when returning from a trip to Lebanon. The government says she attended a Hezbollah leader’s funeral.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

But hey, "racism" fits the dumb narrative.

This is why no one trusts the left or the news, by the way.
Click to expand...


Putin was an enemy of the USA until very recently. He interfered in our elections. But he’s white so he’s not a designated terrorist.
 
nimbus said:
Putin was an enemy of the USA until very recently. He interfered in our elections. But he’s white so he’s not a designated terrorist.
Click to expand...
It may be that he is the President of a very large country. Attaching the label of terrorist to a President of a super power country which has nukes may be something that would need some scrutiny.
 
rowsdower88 said:
I'm inclined to believe the testimony of the lawyer who said she tried to stop the plane and was ignored.
Click to expand...
ov7KEp.gif
 
Splenda88 said:
Great point. But they jail some guy that was protesting at Columbia University against Israel. He is a legal resident based on what I read on the news.

I know you are MAGA, but I don't think anyone should be ok for the government to circumvent the laws and due process.
Click to expand...
What does the phrase “you are MAGA” even mean? That I voted for Trump?

Non citizens have different scrutiny than citizens. It’s just how it is, and I think most Americans are ok with that idea. Even Columbia threatened to kick this guy out at one point, so it’s pretty likely he was involved with protests that a green card holder might be scrutinized for.

As with this physician, The courts will figure it out. If he has a case he’ll get paid and get exactly what he wants which is attention for his misguided cause.
 
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nimbus said:
Putin was an enemy of the USA until very recently. He interfered in our elections. But he’s white so he’s not a designated terrorist.
Click to expand...
Sounds like something you can blame Joe Biden for then? I remember he was tougher on Putin than anyone, easy to designate Putin a terrorist but he didn’t.

2021, enemy of the state
1742255419534.png
 
PainInTheAnes said:
What does the phrase “you are MAGA” even mean? That I voted for Trump?

Non citizens have different scrutiny than citizens. It’s just how it is, and I think most Americans are ok with that idea. Even Columbia threatened to kick this guy out at one point, so it’s pretty likely he was involved with protests that a green card holder might be scrutinized for.

As with this physician, The courts will figure it out. If he has a case he’ll get paid and get exactly what he wants which is attention for his misguided cause.
Click to expand...
Trump is your God.

Americans are ok with the government label someone and then put him/her in jail! I guess anything is possible. Trump is the president for god sake.
 
Splenda88 said:
Trump is your God.

Americans are ok with the government label someone and then put him/her in jail! I guess anything is possible. Trump is the president for god sake.
Click to expand...
That’s sort of the governments job in many circumstances. Have you ever been on an airplane? The TSA does this stuff all the time. Ever heard of a no fly list?

I think Trump is a monkey for gods sake. He’s the least surgical most hamfisted politician we’ve ever had, and often says and does dumb things that I disagree with. On the balance though, I think he’s doing a decent job with things he’s promised that were actually achievable. Hardly a god to me.
 
Gern Blansten said:
It may be that he is the President of a very large country. Attaching the label of terrorist to a President of a super power country which has nukes may be something that would need some scrutiny.
Click to expand...


So when are we going to start deporting Russian grad students? I’m sure some of them support Putin.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
That’s sort of the governments job in many circumstances. Have you ever been on an airplane? The TSA does this stuff all the time. Ever heard of a no fly list?

I think Trump is a monkey for gods sake. He’s the least surgical most hamfisted politician we’ve ever had, and often says and does dumb things that I disagree with. On the balance though, I think he’s doing a decent job with things he’s promised that were actually achievable. Hardly a god to me.
Click to expand...
TSA put people in jail without charging them of a crime?
 
Splenda88 said:
TSA put people in jail without charging them of a crime?
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en.m.wikipedia.org

Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, which provides that migrants in the U.S. may be removed if the U.S. Secretary of State deems their presence incompatible with U.S. foreign policy.

Seems like his activity is incompatible with the foreign policy of the USA. He’s been detained lawfully on that basis. This would not work if he was a citizen, but unfortunately for him he is not. His freedom is subject to the Secretary of States opinion on his presence in this instance.

His crime is engaging in activities incompatible with our foreign policy. A trial will determine if this is enforced by evidence.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
en.m.wikipedia.org

Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, which provides that migrants in the U.S. may be removed if the U.S. Secretary of State deems their presence incompatible with U.S. foreign policy.

Seems like his activity is incompatible with the foreign policy of the USA. He’s been detained lawfully on that basis. This would not work if he was a citizen, but unfortunately for him he is not. His freedom is subject to the Secretary of States opinion on his presence in this instance.

His crime is engaging in activities incompatible with our foreign policy. A trial will determine if this is enforced by evidence.
Click to expand...
I clicked on the links, but I am not seeing the part that the Secretary of State can remove someone if they deem their presence is incompatible with US foreign policy.

In any case, I think it's crazy. The Secretary of State can decide to remove a legal immigrant because they disagree with US foreign policy.
 
Splenda88 said:
I clicked on the links, but I am not seeing the part that the Secretary of State can remove someone if they deem their presence is incompatible with US foreign policy.

In any case, I think it's crazy. The Secretary of State can decide to remove a legal immigrant because they disagree with US foreign policy.
Click to expand...

It’s not soon before citizens start disappearing into some legal abyss Trump and his cronies will create. Their crimes will be protests or boycotts. One day they may be on their way to work and they will be pulled over and taken away. They will not be allowed lawyers or contact with family. If you know anything about the history of right wing movements and dictatorships throughout history this is exactly the next phase of the playbook.
 
PainDrain said:
It’s not soon before citizens start disappearing into some legal abyss Trump and his cronies will create. Their crimes will be protests or boycotts. One day they may be on their way to work and they will be pulled over and taken away. They will not be allowed lawyers or contact with family. If you know anything about the history of right wing movements and dictatorships throughout history this is exactly the next phase of the playbook.
Click to expand...
No one has been “disappeared”. Could you be any more melodramatic? Good lord go outside
 
PainInTheAnes said:
No one has been “disappeared”. Could you be any more melodramatic? Good lord go outside
Click to expand...
If I had told you in 2019 that Trump would lose the upcoming election and then encourage his followers to storm the capital building, assault cops, threaten to hang the VP and smear **** on the walls would you have said I was being melodramatic? You should go read a history book.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
Looks like you guys were wrong on this one. There was a reason, and it was that she seemed to be very sad about a terrorist group's leader being killed.

Imagine someone on a visa attending a candlelight vigil for Osama Bin Laden and keeping pics of him on their phone and then expecting the state department to be fine with that.

www.nytimes.com

D.H.S. Sheds Light on Why It Deported Rhode Island Doctor

Dr. Rasha Alawieh was detained in Boston and denied entry when returning from a trip to Lebanon. The government says she attended a Hezbollah leader’s funeral.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

But hey, "racism" fits the dumb narrative.

This is why no one trusts the left or the news, by the way.
Click to expand...
Alleged terrorist sympathizer or not, due process is important as we live under rule of law. It is unamerican to abrogate the law in this manner and ignore judicial orders.
 
maxxor said:
Alleged terrorist sympathizer or not, due process is important as we live under rule of law. It is unamerican to abrogate the law in this manner and ignore judicial orders.
Click to expand...
Ok, then immigration lawyers will take on their cases and they will be due big settlements, book deals, and regain their freedom. Many lawyers will be eager to take their cases if what you say is true.

Both cases have been done by the letter of the law, but they can easily hire defense if they have a case and be given due process. Same as if you or I had an unlawful interaction with law enforcement.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
Ok, then immigration lawyers will take on their cases and they will be due big settlements, book deals, and regain their freedom. Many lawyers will be eager to take their cases if what you say is true.

Both cases have been done by the letter of the law, but they can easily hire defense if they have a case and be given due process. Same as if you or I had an unlawful interaction with law enforcement.
Click to expand...
Except they *can't* now. This is why the "deport before people have time to react" is so insidious. The US courts do not have jurisdiction once the person is out of the country. There is no recourse in the current legal system.

They always start with a complex, unfavorable set of people that can be easily demonized, then once people don't protest/complain/outcry/stop them, they go incrementally to "declare this person who once wrote negative things about the government on a forum a noncitizen and deport them before the judge can have a hearing".

This is wrong. If the government is acting lawlessly, why do you think the legal system will offer any remedy? Your "book deal" thing won't happen and can't happen now that we are in this "new world".
 
Dragonite7 said:
Did we skip the parallel story where Trump and his goons ignored an explicit court order and proceeded with illegal deportations to El Salvador?
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I think this is the same multiprong approach: attack difficult to defend people as a way to undermine rule of law. They declared the Venezuelans “gang members” with no hearings or evidence to the assertion. The right wing noise machine will bleat about “violent gang members”. Maybe some of them are. But we have no proof. Nothing.

Those of us with backgrounds from countries who operate this way know what’s coming.

It boggles my mind that Biden simultaneously had the presence of mind to issue prospective pardons but also not doing anything to avert this storm. He had the immunity ruling. He should have used it to force the court to backpedal.
 
nimbus said:
It’s a power grab by the executive branch. It’s un-American. Everybody should be against this regardless of which side you lean politically.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the 21st century. If we had to wait on congress or the courts to do anything, our country would be as nimble as that bullet train you guys have in California shuttling people from LA to San Francisco.

Every president this century has expanded executive power, period.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
Welcome to the 21st century. If we had to wait on congress or the courts to do anything, our country would be as nimble as that bullet train you guys have in California shuttling people from LA to San Francisco.

Every president this century has expanded executive power, period.
Click to expand...


Sure it’s American realpolitik
 
PainInTheAnes said:
I hate it, but a 95% incumbency rate in congress and lifetime court appointments means there's no motivation to act, unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Term limits in the Senate and the House and at least a discussion about non-lifetime appointments for judges is probably an area of agreement between left and right populist wings. I’m just not sure the ruling wealthy elite see it as a priority. It’s much easier for them to own a few politicians and judges than have to chase down and bribe new ones every few years.
 
Chief Justice Roberts issued a rare public statement, on the growing talk of impeaching judges. “For more than two centuries, it has been established that impeachment is not an appropriate response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision,” he wrote. “The normal appellate review process exists for that purpose.”
 
Splenda88 said:
I lived in a couple Spanish countries for a total of 6 yrs. I speak Spanish really well. Racism is A LOT more prevalent in Latin America than it is in the US.

When these Hispanics move to the US (especially the one from upper middle class in their homeland), they want/try to "fit in", meaning they want to be "grouped" with Caucasians instead of other minorities (especially AA).

When I moved back to the US (Miami suburbs), I quickly realized there was a big percentage of African Americans as well that felt like Hispanic immigrants are given preferential treatment over them. I remember vividly an AA colleague that I worked with in college as math tutors said that.

Trump seems to understand how to dice and slice these dynamics. That is the reason he did better than most republicans with minorities.
Click to expand...
Well, if the left's sentiment is that the average black and Hispanic Trump voter is a "white nationalist", the rest of us republicans have no chance.

1742320021905.png
 
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