Biden Out of Race

[UscGhost]

I think blame for that lies squarely with the government allowing the border crossings to get this bad the last 20 years.

Allowing illegal immigration creates problems when you have people who can be arrested at any moment chronically. Crappy fallout is inevitable and the entire governmental apparatus is at fault. The alternative is amnesty granting partial or full citizenship to millions of people through a backdoor and that would be catastrophic for the country and impossible politically.

This is another one of our American gordian knots. The health insurance middlemen, the illegal immigration, the housing/construction regulation, and the aging lawmakers. All impossible to get around except through direct means.

It sucks but it’s inevitable. Similar to a criminal with children being arrested for some crime. It’s sad and awful for the children, but we don’t not send people to prison because they have children out there.

Impossible politically? Yes. Because the GOP made it that way

Catastrophic? Why?
Immigrant populations, on avg, are younger, commit less crime, higher participation in the workforce, provide cheap labor.

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[UscGhost]

A complete redrawing of political power and interest groups nearly overnight is the sort of thing that leads to real violence and upheaval.

Are you ready for the entire unemployment, social security, and medical system to finally break? Because that’s what I think would happen. Already strained entitlement systems cannot possibly take on a massive group of non assimilated outsiders. I believe the reason they haven’t crumbled is because their usage by illegal immigrant populations is currently naturally restrained.

That's easy to solve. Give them a 5/10/15 year path to citizenship with certain guidelines and restrictions, rewards, penalties.

Economically speaking, they contribute more to the US than they utilize in entitlement.

Unless the argument is to keep them illegal, so we can utilize the benefits to the US, without having to support them socially. Cruel sure. But then why deport them?

 

[PainInTheAnes]

That's easy to solve. Give them a 5/10/15 year path to citizenship with certain guidelines and restrictions, rewards, penalties.

Economically speaking, they contribute more to the US than they utilize in entitlement.

Unless the argument is to keep them illegal, so we can utilize the benefits to the US, without having to support them socially. Cruel sure. But then why deport them?

They contribute more because they aren’t citizens with usual access to entitlement programs. If you all of a sudden guarantee these millions of people healthcare via the ACA, do you not think their utilization will increase? Ditto for making all of their work above board. If they’re subject to minimum wage laws and normal workplace requirements, the economic benefit will go away soon after.

Again it’s a Gordian knot now that can’t be tamed by any normal means. We let it get this bad over 25 years.

I wouldn’t argue for amnesty and in fact benefit from their illegal status being an educated person. I also doubt the number of deportations is all that much higher under Trump than it was under Biden and Trump round 1.

The only difference this time around is the crossings are being discouraged and deportations are being publicized. No one cared when Obama and Biden did it and I doubt their strategy was mistake free. The difference is the press coverage and the insane alarmism over it.

Liberals seem 100% certain that this is “total authoritarianism” and “fascism” and “we’re already doing concentration camps, YOU could be next”.

It’s so transparently performative and the result of the “anxious generation” having media visibility.

But hey it’s easy to scream “this is now Germany 1942, we’re doomed” when you have a desire to be hopeless

 

[chessknt]

The alternative offered in this incident seems to be a case by case suspension of current immigration rules. Completely non viable solution in my opinion.

So selective adherence to the Constitution when convenient then? Too much work so **** it just deport citizens without due process then pretend like we can't get them back when SCOTUS orders it? You don't see any issue with how massive of a problem that will become over the next 1-3 years? Should immigration law supersede core constitutional rights all the time or just when Trump/the right say so?

 

[PainInTheAnes]

So selective adherence to the Constitution when convenient then? Too much work so **** it just deport citizens without due process then pretend like we can't get them back when SCOTUS orders it? You don't see any issue with how massive of a problem that will become over the next 1-3 years?

Explain how big of a problem this becomes on that timeline to me. So far after about 100 days we have 5-10 incidents that have been publicized and mostly seem to stem from clerical errors. That’s not exactly a blazing clip in a country with 10 million illegal immigrants and who knows how many people on visas.

There’s 1500 days in a presidency. What day are you predicting this will actually start moving the needle with the 95% of Americans who aren’t politically engaged?

The accusations that are being levied here such as “complete authoritarianism” and “disappearing anyone they want” seem pretty serious so I’d like to know how serious you think it is to that 95% of Americans

 

[UscGhost]

They contribute more because they aren’t citizens with usual access to entitlement programs. If you all of a sudden guarantee these millions of people healthcare via the ACA, do you not think their utilization will increase? Ditto for making all of their work above board. If they’re subject to minimum wage laws and normal workplace requirements, the economic benefit will go away soon after.

Again it’s a Gordian knot now that can’t be tamed by any normal means. We let it get this bad over 25 years.

I wouldn’t argue for amnesty and in fact benefit from their illegal status being an educated person. I also doubt the number of deportations is all that much higher under Trump than it was under Biden and Trump round 1.

The only difference this time around is the crossings are being discouraged and deportations are being publicized. No one cared when Obama and Biden did it and I doubt their strategy was mistake free. The difference is the press coverage and the insane alarmism over it.

Liberals seem 100% certain that this is “total authoritarianism” and “fascism” and “we’re already doing concentration camps, YOU could be next”.

It’s so transparently performative and the result of the “anxious generation” having media visibility.

But hey it’s easy to scream “this is now Germany 1942, we’re doomed” when you have a desire to be hopeless

From the US perspective, I would agree that cheap below market immigrant labor is the most beneficial economically.

That's fine. But the GOP seems determined to demonize the immigrants as a problem. Any many on this board seem to agree with that sentiment... that immigration is a problem and the immigrants should be deported.

What many fail to realize, is that it's much better to keep them, let them provide cheap labor and we utilize the economic benefits.

Politically, it's a fake problem

 

[PainInTheAnes]

From the US perspective, I would agree that cheap below market immigrant labor is the most beneficial economically.

That's fine. But the GOP seems determined to demonize the immigrants as a problem. Any many on this board seem to agree with that sentiment... that immigration is a problem and the immigrants should be deported.

What many fail to realize, is that it's much better to keep them, let them provide cheap labor and we utilize the economic benefits.

Politically, it's a fake problem

It’s a fake problem with a fake solution. Deportations aren’t that much if at all higher than under Biden or Obama.

All of this is performative in my eyes by both sides except the management of the border itself and some pretty unimpactful procedural legal concerns. People are talking about a “constitutional crisis” as if Donald Trump is rolling tanks through the streets of nyc calling for all democrats to report for inspection.

 

[UscGhost]

It’s a fake problem with a fake solution. Deportations aren’t that much if at all higher than under Biden or Obama.

All of this is performative in my eyes by both sides except the management of the border itself and some pretty unimpactful procedural legal concerns. People are talking about a “constitutional crisis” as if Donald Trump is rolling tanks through the streets of nyc calling for all democrats to report for inspection.

Well,

Blatant disregard for court decisions is pretty unprecedented. Would it directly affect me or you? Probably not

But I have a big problem with any political leader blatantly ignoring and refusing court orders..as that's the foundation of our system of government. So small things lead to slightly bigger and bigger and bigger..

 

[Splenda88]

If they come here illegally, they should be deported. But I think Trump should start with people who committed crimes first and do it in a lawful manner.

I admit that it won't be good for the economy if we round up all these people and deport them. Most of these people want to work compared to a bunch of entitled Americans that are gaming the system using fake disability claims.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

Well,

Blatant disregard for court decisions is pretty unprecedented. Would it directly affect me or you? Probably not

But I have a big problem with any political leader blatantly ignoring and refusing court orders..as that's the foundation of our system of government. So small things lead to slightly bigger and bigger and bigger..

I don’t find the slippery slope argument compelling personally. If anything, this admin has shown it responds to public and corporate pressure given the 180s on tariffs the past week.

Best I can tell this regime isn’t doing that much major that its constituents disagree with, which is the majority of the voting population. You may think that’s the most authoritarian the USA has ever been but I strongly disagree. I found the Covid emergency orders and governors turning into dictators from both political parties much more alarming as it relates to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. This is nothing compared to the bipartisan overreach there in my view

 

[nimbus]

Impossible politically? Yes. Because the GOP made it that way

Catastrophic? Why?
Immigrant populations, on avg, are younger, commit less crime, higher participation in the workforce, provide cheap labor.

Biden handed Trump an economy with one of the lowest unemployment rates in modern history. When Trump onshores all those high paying manufacturing jobs, we’re either going to need massive robotic dark factories or immigrants.

 

[nimbus]

I don’t find the slippery slope argument compelling personally. If anything, this admin has shown it responds to public and corporate pressure given the 180s on tariffs the past week.

Best I can tell this regime isn’t doing that much major that its constituents disagree with, which is the majority of the voting population. You may think that’s the most authoritarian the USA has ever been but I strongly disagree. I found the Covid emergency orders and governors turning into dictators from both political parties much more alarming as it relates to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. This is nothing compared to the bipartisan overreach there in my view

We need to protect the minority, not just the “majority of the voting public”. I used to work with a bariatric surgeon who spent part of his youth in a shack in Manzanar. Still work with his son who is an ortho hand surgeon. I also work with an ENT whose family lost their large farm in Utah when his grandparents, father and uncles were sent to an internment camp. We are currently repeating that dark stain on our history.

 

[nimbus]

While my family arrived to the United States “legally”, our visa lapsed several times making us technically “illegal” for periods of months while we were working with an attorney and applying for permanent residency. At one time our neighbors in Brooklyn who were mostly Russian Jewish immigrants warned my parents that immigration officers were knocking on our door while they were at work. Shortly thereafter we moved to Cleveland, Ohio of all places. This was in the early 1970s when nobody in town looked like me except for my brother and sister. We were just kids and my parents were basically clueless about how things work in America. We were helped at each step by the Catholic Church and Catholic charities. That’s how I ended up becoming a Midwest Asian who loves pierogis and kielbasa.

All this to say that legal vs illegal is not always black and white. There are likely tens of millions of Americans with very similar stories who’s journey to becoming American is not neat and orderly but more seat of our pants.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

We need to protect the minority, not just the “majority of the voting public”. I used to work with a bariatric surgeon who spent part of his youth in a shack in Manzanar. Still work with his son who is an ortho hand surgeon. I also work with an ENT whose family lost their large farm in Utah when his grandparents, father and uncles were sent to an internment camp. We are currently repeating that dark stain on our history.

I disagree that we’re in any way repeating Japanese internments, neither in scale of number or scale of injustice. There is no comparison that I can even think of drawing.

 

[nimbus]

I disagree that we’re in any way repeating Japanese internments, neither in scale of number or scale of injustice. There is no comparison that I can even think of drawing.

Maybe not yet in scale but we have begun to deport American citizens. And the fearmongering and othering are very similar.

 

[aneftp]

I met one of the VA docs (icu/pulmonologist) who moonlights at a local private hospital today.

He’s said all the VA workers who got let go were the wrong people. The people who actually do work like the ekg techs etc.

All the dead weight at the government with inflated salaries still work at the VA. Can’t fire them. Typical VA non sense. I’m sure it’s the same at most govt entities Elon finally gave up trying to let go.

The laziness ones still hang on to their jobs. The more productive ones not vested get tired of the BS and move on

He’s in his early 60s and just waiting for his med student daughter to graduates and he will just retire from the VA with 20 plus years. So he’s at the tail end n

 

[UscGhost]

I don’t find the slippery slope argument compelling personally. If anything, this admin has shown it responds to public and corporate pressure given the 180s on tariffs the past week.

Best I can tell this regime isn’t doing that much major that its constituents disagree with, which is the majority of the voting population. You may think that’s the most authoritarian the USA has ever been but I strongly disagree. I found the Covid emergency orders and governors turning into dictators from both political parties much more alarming as it relates to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. This is nothing compared to the bipartisan overreach there in my view

Well, given that his poll approval ratings have tanked...I am not sure his constituents agree with him that much.

COVID protocols were pretty much universal across the entire world, based upon best available scientific information at the time. And only lasted a couple hours. No reason to be that alarmed by it. Government didn't gain anything by doing it, other than a slower pandemic spread

 

[chessknt]

Explain how big of a problem this becomes on that timeline to me. So far after about 100 days we have 5-10 incidents that have been publicized and mostly seem to stem from clerical errors. That’s not exactly a blazing clip in a country with 10 million illegal immigrants and who knows how many people on visas.

There’s 1500 days in a presidency. What day are you predicting this will actually start moving the needle with the 95% of Americans who aren’t politically engaged?

The accusations that are being levied here such as “complete authoritarianism” and “disappearing anyone they want” seem pretty serious so I’d like to know how serious you think it is to that 95% of Americans

Setting a precedent for it to ever be OK is a massive problem. The consolidation of power under the executive with judicial/business/corporate/legal/educational intimidation to remove opposition is setting the stage for suspension of more constitutional rights with the ultimate one being our right to actually have elections at all.

Do you think it was going to start with him arresting judges, lawyers, and political opponents? This is stage 1, start working on the process on marignalized and impotent groups then start working up to the real threats. The tariff exceptions where people have to come privately negotiate/bribe him to stay in business is another huge red flag. Going after law groups clearances without basis unless they obey his commands is another. Killing funding and visas to universities unless they sign on to his policy ideals is yet another. Trying to assert control over state voting procedures is another.

But keep right on assuming everything will work out fine and that some magical process will prevent the worst from happening even as you sat there and watched them systemically be unraveled.

 

[aneftp]

Well, given that his poll approval ratings have tanked...I am not sure his constituents agree with him that much.

COVID protocols were pretty much universal across the entire world, based upon best available scientific information at the time. And only lasted a couple hours. No reason to be that alarmed by it. Government didn't gain anything by doing it, other than a slower pandemic spread

Some USA states were much stricter with COVID than others. It wasn’t universal. Some allowed business to return earlier.

It wasn’t quite a mess at least in the USA that I’m aware of.

I don’t think any one really had any clear protocol. All a guessing game during the first 12-18 months of Covid.

 

[maxxor]

Setting a precedent for it to ever be OK is a massive problem. The consolidation of power under the executive with judicial/business/corporate/legal/educational intimidation to remove opposition is setting the stage for suspension of more constitutional rights with the ultimate one being our right to actually have elections at all.

Do you think it was going to start with him arresting judges, lawyers, and political opponents? This is stage 1, start working on the process on marignalized and impotent groups then start working up to the real threats. The tariff exceptions where people have to come privately negotiate/bribe him to stay in business is another huge red flag. Going after law groups clearances without basis unless they obey his commands is another. Killing funding and visas to universities unless they sign on to his policy ideals is yet another. Trying to assert control over state voting procedures is another.

But keep right on assuming everything will work out fine and that some magical process will prevent the worst from happening even as you sat there and watched them systemically be unraveled.

People who have no personal experience with authoritarian regimes are the ones ok with this. They simply don’t know how it goes in these places. It’s like bankruptcy, slow, and then all at once.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

Setting a precedent for it to ever be OK is a massive problem. The consolidation of power under the executive with judicial/business/corporate/legal/educational intimidation to remove opposition is setting the stage for suspension of more constitutional rights with the ultimate one being our right to actually have elections at all.

Do you think it was going to start with him arresting judges, lawyers, and political opponents? This is stage 1, start working on the process on marignalized and impotent groups then start working up to the real threats. The tariff exceptions where people have to come privately negotiate/bribe him to stay in business is another huge red flag. Going after law groups clearances without basis unless they obey his commands is another. Killing funding and visas to universities unless they sign on to his policy ideals is yet another. Trying to assert control over state voting procedures is another.

But keep right on assuming everything will work out fine and that some magical process will prevent the worst from happening even as you sat there and watched them systemically be unraveled.

And if you’re wrong, do I get to point and laugh at how much of a swing and a miss this was? If you seriously think these things are possible then you should be making your exit plans now.

But my guess is you aren’t, because…too busy I guess? I’d think this is top of the to-do list.

What’s stage 2 look like? How many stages? What’s the final stage? Where does your anxiety cascade go on this?

 

[PainInTheAnes]

People who have no personal experience with authoritarian regimes are the ones ok with this. They simply don’t know how it goes in these places. It’s like bankruptcy, slow, and then all at once.

Ok, let’s play it out to bankruptcy in this analogy. What’s it look like, what’s your percentage chance of that happening?

 

[Splenda88]

No one thought January 6 was possible, but it happened.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

No one thought January 6 was possible, but it happened.

I would take 1000 January 6s versus 1 Kent State. That happened within my parents lifetime.

 

[Splenda88]

I would take 1000 January 6s versus 1 Kent State. That happened within my parents lifetime.

None of them should have happened.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

None of them should have happened.

Yes, and saying things like "no one thought Jan 6 was possible" doesn't say much.

No one thought the Great Recession was possible. No one thought 9/11 was possible. But they happened...

 

[Splenda88]

Yes, and saying things like "no one thought Jan 6 was possible" doesn't say much.

No one thought the Great Recession was possible. No one thought 9/11 was possible. But they happened...

If you can't see the difference between January 6 and your two examples, I can't help you.

 

[chessknt]

And if you’re wrong, do I get to point and laugh at how much of a swing and a miss this was? If you seriously think these things are possible then you should be making your exit plans now.

But my guess is you aren’t, because…too busy I guess? I’d think this is top of the to-do list.

What’s stage 2 look like? How many stages? What’s the final stage? Where does your anxiety cascade go on this?

I have six figures in liquid cash or equivalent on hand and have citizenship in another country. First sign that it is starting to fully unravel all I need is a plane ticket for the family. I have accounts set up to get my assets out of US custody as well with a single button click

I wish I loved authoritarian fascism as much as you apparently do and could care less if it happened. I just don't have your confidence that the educated won't be subsequently targeted as well. The good news is your team wins no matter what I guess so you pwned the libs hard. I genuinely don't understand what, as an anesthesiologist making six figures, made you personally feel like complete upheaval of our social and legal order was necessary. What in your life was so intolerable that made that seem like a good idea?

 

[PainInTheAnes]

If you can't see the difference between January 6 and your two examples, I can't help you.

Two were decidedly worse than the other, and I'd trade 1000 of the one for each of the other two.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

I have six figures in liquid cash or equivalent on hand and have citizenship in another country. First sign that it is starting to fully unravel to all I need is a plane ticket for the family.

I wish I lived authoritarian fascism as much as you apparently do and could care less if it happened. I just don't have your confidence that the educated won't be subsequently targeted as well. The good news is your team wins no matter what I guess so you pwned the libs hard.

So where do we go from here? What happens when "the educated" are "targeted?" Is that stage 2 or 3?

For what it's worth I don't want to live in authoritarian fascism and I would care deeply if it happened.

 

[chessknt]

So where do we go from here? What happens when "the educated" are "targeted?" Is that stage 2 or 3?

For what it's worth I don't want to live in authoritarian fascism and I would care deeply if it happened.

But it is happening and you don't....

At what point will you care? We have already established that exiling marginalized minor citizens of this country and depriving them of their 5th amendment rights isn't enough. Neither is openly threatening judges/lawyers/universities that disagree the regime. Open bribery for pardons for criminals and CEOs making backroom deals to avoid financial ruin is also OK.

So where is your threshold? Do you need to see the US military deployed against the general populace? Political rivals arrested? Elections suspended? And when that happens do you think it will even be fixable? Do you think it happens with no warning or do we work our way up there?

 

[Splenda88]

But it is happening and you don't....

At what point will you care? We have already established that exiling marginalized minor citizens of this country and depriving them of their 5th amendment rights isn't enough. Neither is openly threatening judges/lawyers/universities that disagree the regime. Open bribery for pardons for criminals and CEOs making backroom deals to avoid financial ruin is also OK.

So where is your threshold? Do you need to see the US military deployed against the general populace? Political rivals arrested? Elections suspended? And when that happens do you think it will even be fixable? Do you think it happens with no warning or do we work our way up there?

Why are you expecting a MAGA to care about what Trump is doing?

 

[chessknt]

Why are you expecting a MAGA to care about what Trump is doing?

I genuinely don't. The cognitive dissonance of 'I don't support fascism/authoritarianism' and being MAGA at the same time will be the downfall of us all. The fact that some in that camp seem to think they will see a problem with Trump if it actually arises makes me wonder what they think a problem actually looks like.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

But it is happening and you don't....

At what point will you care? We have already established that exiling marginalized minor citizens of this country and depriving them of their 5th amendment rights isn't enough. Neither is openly threatening judges/lawyers/universities that disagree the regime. Open bribery for pardons for criminals and CEOs making backroom deals to avoid financial ruin is also OK.

So where is your threshold? Do you need to see the US military deployed against the general populace? Political rivals arrested? Elections suspended? And when that happens do you think it will even be fixable? Do you think it happens with no warning or do we work our way up there?

We disagree on definitions of authoritarian fascism. If any of those things you asked about happened then yes I'd be worried. I also think anything in America is fixable (2nd amendment).

As for when I'll care about what's happening, when it's something that I would know about if I didn't use the internet, or greatly affects one of the many hundreds of people I know personally, then it'll move the needle. This would mean we were in something resembling other authoritarian regimes throughout history.

The problem with the analogies here is that most, if not all, authoritarian regimes have a widespread effect on local communities. What matters to me is my immediate town and people I care about. That's a pretty good litmus test for when I would start to take notice. This would've held true for all of the injustices in America since 1945 that have taken place before Trump.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

Why are you expecting a MAGA to care about what Trump is doing?

What is a MAGA? A Trump voter?

 

[nimbus]

I met one of the VA docs (icu/pulmonologist) who moonlights at a local private hospital today.

He’s said all the VA workers who got let go were the wrong people. The people who actually do work like the ekg techs etc.

All the dead weight at the government with inflated salaries still work at the VA. Can’t fire them. Typical VA non sense. I’m sure it’s the same at most govt entities Elon finally gave up trying to let go.

The laziness ones still hang on to their jobs. The more productive ones not vested get tired of the BS and move on

He’s in his early 60s and just waiting for his med student daughter to graduates and he will just retire from the VA with 20 plus years. So he’s at the tail end n

Since he wasn’t let go, is still there, and is biding his time, does that make him part of the dead weight with inflated pay?

 

[Splenda88]

What is a MAGA? A Trump voter?

Not all Trump voters are MAGA.

For instance, @aneftp is a Trump voter but he is not a MAGA. On the other hand, you ARE a MAGA.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

I disagree that we’re in any way repeating Japanese internments, neither in scale of number or scale of injustice. There is no comparison that I can even think of drawing.

Geezz, next you're going to say Trump isn't Hitler 🙄

😉 😉

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

I would take 1000 January 6s versus 1 Kent State. That happened within my parents lifetime.

Damn I feel old

 

[aneftp]

Since he wasn’t let go, is still there, and is biding his time, does that make him part of the dead weight with inflated pay?

He’s hustling for extra pay in the private world to pay for his daughter’s med school.

The lazy docs (or nurses ) at the va are not hustling in the private world trying to make extra cash.

Think about it.

If you are a mommy track or close to retired doc at the VA collecting a paycheck. Are you gonna to moonlight on a Saturday when you can be chilling at home? Those are the type of VA employees trump needs to get rid of. Those employees aren’t moonlighting.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

Not all Trump voters are MAGA.

For instance, @aneftp is a Trump voter but he is not a MAGA. On the other hand, you ARE a MAGA.

Whatever, you can pretend like I’m an unreachable fool but the only fools I see are people who are taking years off their lives imagining some boogeyman taking them away from their 5000 sqft houses and Porsches because Trump is “targeting the educated”.

 

[nimbus]

Long interview. Perhaps of interest. This is exactly what my few Chinese friends say. We don’t understand China.

 

[aneftp]

Not all Trump voters are MAGA.

For instance, @aneftp is a Trump voter but he is not a MAGA. On the other hand, you ARE a MAGA.

Correct. Most of the maga stuff is non sense to me.

But I like to argue on principals of ideology just to make a mockery out of things.

 

[Splenda88]

Correct. Most of the maga stuff is non sense to me.

But I like to argue on principals of ideology just to make a mockery out of things.

It's unfortunate that US politics have become a lot more tribal since Clinton became president.

People don't argue on policies anymore. I am noticing that a lot MAGA loyalists talking like Bernie Sanders during that Tariff debacle.

 

[NumTacos]

Same ideology as Harvard restricting Asian admissions to 18%.

Two wrongs? Don’t you agree? That’s what trump administration is telling Harvard. The same thing the liberals were telling Augusta national in 2003.

The principal is the same. Stop discriminating against certain people. Now u may not agree with me global discriminating against admitting women to private golf course is different than limiting Asian enrollment to 18% at Harvard.

But the end principal is the same. Discrimination is discrimination.

Come on man. Are you serious?

 

[DocMcCoy]

So where is your threshold? Do you need to see the US military deployed against the general populace? Political rivals arrested? Elections suspended? And when that happens do you think it will even be fixable? Do you think it happens with no warning or do we work our way up there?

When they come for the guns.

Mao, Stalin, Castro, Mussolini, Chavez, and on and on and on, all the way back to the ancient freaking Persians … One thing all of these fascist/authoritarian/dictators had in common, a populace and political opponents hamstrung to defend themselves.

Trump is an idiot, egotistical, and self centered. What he isn’t, is insane. He’s a populist. To compare him to any of the above is ridiculous. He will flip his policy with the changing tides of his polling numbers, and he will always appease his base.

That’s why he won’t come after the guns. That combined with the rest of the checks and balances (which seem to be holding strong) is why we will get to continue to argue about clerical immigration errors, tariffs, drunken SECDEFs, cell phones causing autism, and the rest of the agendas stupid political minutiae instead of why his liberal opponents are “falling out of windows”, or randomly blowing up in their cars, why the midterms are cancelled, or why are US citizens who vote democrat mysteriously disappearing to gulags.

So the lot of you they truly think we are on the brink of a permanent quasi-totalitarian, or fascist dictatorship form of government should be thanking your neighbors that own a firearm. Sounds like it would be game over otherwise.

 

[nimbus]

It's unfortunate that US politics have become a lot more tribal since Clinton became president.

I don’t remember the Clinton vs Bush, the Clinton vs Dole, or the Obama vs McCain campaigns to be particularly tribal. I do remember McCain defending Obama as “a decent family man” during one of his campaign events when his own supporters questioned Obama’s qualifications and trustworthiness. The tribalism escalated after Obama won. Many people had visceral reactions, both positive and negative, after his victory. Before Obama, no one questioned the birthplace or eligibility of a POTUS or made conjectures about their religion. The tribalism went to another level with Trump because Trump inflamed it instead being a grownup like McCain.

 

[aneftp]

Come on man. Are you serious?

It’s about ideology.

Dems or left leaning ideology feel it’s ok to tell partial lies. (Discrimination against Asians is ok because it’s “benefits” another class of races. Like wtf. Discrimination is discrimination. There is no shades of grey with what Harvard does to Asians in limiting their admissions. The USA Supreme Court made that loud and clear.

As for trump witholding government research grant support from Harvard. The administration wrote their reasons.

https://www.harvard.edu/research-funding/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2025/04/Letter-Sent-to-Harvard-2025-04-11.pdf

I see nothing wrong. It’s like a worker getting called into the office of their superior.

Get with the program or get fired.

Do you not agree Harvard shouldn’t be audited for their policies?

Harvard has a choice. Take the govt grants and submit to audit. Or lose the govt grant.

You have a choice as well. If you want your money. Get with the program.

Harvard is a private institution. They can do whatever they want. But when you take government or anyone’s money. You are at the mercy of the government or the donors rules.

 

[aneftp]

I don’t remember the Clinton vs Bush, the Clinton vs Dole, or the Obama vs McCain campaigns to be particularly tribal. I do remember McCain defending Obama as “a decent family man” during one of his campaign events when his own supporters questioned Obama’s qualifications and trustworthiness. The tribalism escalated after Obama won. Many people had visceral reactions, both positive and negative, after his victory. Before Obama, no one questioned the birthplace or eligibility of a POTUS or made conjectures about their religion. The tribalism went to another level with Trump because Trump inflamed it instead being a grownup like McCain.

You don’t remember. I do. Political ads are brutal and nasty at times. The Clinton propaganda machine went after bob dole for being too old.

Still Running;Is Age-Bashing Any Way to Beat Bob Dole? (Published 1996)

www.nytimes.com

This is why I feel it’s absolutely hypocrisy of Dems to defend Joe Biden about his age while going after bob dole about his age in 1996.

I voted for Clinton in 1996 as well because I felt Dole had been in politics too long (another type of being old).

 

[nimbus]

You don’t remember. I do. Political ads are brutal and nasty at times. The Clinton propaganda machine went after bob dole for being too old.

Still Running;Is Age-Bashing Any Way to Beat Bob Dole? (Published 1996)

www.nytimes.com

This is why I feel it’s absolutely hypocrisy of Dems to defend Joe Biden about his age while going after bob dole about his age in 1996.

I voted for Clinton in 1996 as well because I felt Dole had been in politics too long (another type of being old).

What does that have to do with tribalism? Everybody gets old if they’re lucky enough.

“In an odd twist, Mr. Dole may confront the issue head-on this week. As majority leader, he said he would bring to the Senate floor consideration of a bill that would allow state and local governments to impose mandatory retirement on firefighters and police officers on the ground that the physical demands of those jobs are especially taxing. Mr. Dole has not stated his position.“

Is this tribalism too?

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/aging-docs.1507291/