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Just wondering if you guys know which programs do a lot of cleft's...
Thanks.
Thanks.
Big Cleft Palate Programs
- Thread starter oms fan
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Carle Foundation Hospital.... http://www.carle.com/OMFSresidency/
The Junior residents are heavily involved in the patient care and do scrub in as 2nd assistants. The senior residents cut 1/2 these cases. Initial Lips, Palates, Lip Revisions, Bone Grafts, Pharyngeal Surgery for Velopharyngeal Insufficiency/Speach Probs, Distraction Osteogenesis, Orthognathics etc...
Basically the only things they leave for the patient to have done by somebody else are Genetics Counseling by the geneticisits, Peds medicine by the pediatrics specialists, Ear Tubes by ENT, and the final Nasal Revision by a plastic surgeon.
The Junior residents are heavily involved in the patient care and do scrub in as 2nd assistants. The senior residents cut 1/2 these cases. Initial Lips, Palates, Lip Revisions, Bone Grafts, Pharyngeal Surgery for Velopharyngeal Insufficiency/Speach Probs, Distraction Osteogenesis, Orthognathics etc...
Basically the only things they leave for the patient to have done by somebody else are Genetics Counseling by the geneticisits, Peds medicine by the pediatrics specialists, Ear Tubes by ENT, and the final Nasal Revision by a plastic surgeon.
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I understand that Little Rock Arkansas Children Hospital has a great OMS program they get to travel to foreign countries and get to practice probably 175 to 250 cases per medical brigade in one week.
Also Mayo Clinic has a super OMFS program involving TMJ, ENT surgery and Cancer reconstruction, I've made my grad Thesis in New Surgical Tech's for correction of Hare Lip and Cleft Palate, palato-plasties and quielosplasties , using Tennisson-Randall and Ralph Millard for lips, combined with Wardill's (push-back) for palatal corrections. Rhynoplasties is very useful regarding the reintegration of the little patient's facial appearance.
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Harvard/MGH does a fair amount of cleft-associated surgery...At MGH, the lip repairs/nasal revisions are done by plastics, the palates often done by OMFS/Plastics. The cleft clinic is based out of OMFS. The chiefs do most of the cleft-orthognathic procedures, hemifacial microsomia (Kaban is considered an expert in the area), distraction (mandibular and midface), lots of pediatric maxillofacial surgery for giant cell lesions, along with a significant amount of implant placement for cleft patients. At Boston Children's, the residents rotate with Dr. Padwa (Mulliken-trained CF OMFS) doing orthognathics (LF 1, 2, 3), bone grafting with Padwa; complex craniofacial surgery (craniosynostoses, etc.) is done in conjunction with plastics.
I'm not certain, but I think UPitt and Parkland also do a fair amount
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Dr.OMS FAN, as you are now, I was very enthusiastic when I started my OMS residency and I thought that if I knew the most surgical tech's I would be very much successful, first, once you get to your own practice believe me you dont have to worry about income but quality professionalism, second, the best money is made through facial deformities, Laser Resurfacing and Rejuvenations techs, Blepharoplasties, Rhynoplasties, Chin Implants, and most of all Minor surgical procedures as well as to Traumatologies cases. Big time money is Dental Implants, bone grafts like Ridge augmentation and Sinus bone grafts, even the Subperiostical Implants are very useful in thin Madibular bones, TMJ are an excellent source of important income and of course if you like to perform Third's is up to you, I find it very time consuming so I pass those.
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I understand that Little Rock Arkansas Children Hospital has a great OMS program they get to travel to foreign countries and get to practice probably 175 to 250 cases per medical brigade in one week.
Also Mayo Clinic has a super OMFS program involving TMJ, ENT surgery and Cancer reconstruction, I've made my grad Thesis in New Surgical Tech's for correction of Hare Lip and Cleft Palate, palato-plasties and quielosplasties , using Tennisson-Randall and Ralph Millard for lips, combined with Wardill's (push-back) for palatal corrections. Rhynoplasties is very useful regarding the reintegration of the little patient's facial appearance.
Ok, first of all, there is no OMFS program in Arkansas...
Second, going on a cleft mission to a third world country is not the same as doing clefts routinely in a modern hospital setting. The cleft patients you see on those missions are certainly not your common cleft surgery patients... You end up doing primary lips on like 6 or 7 year old kids... Hardly the same as on a 3-6 month old infant.
Third, maybe it's just me, but why are you talking about Tennison flaps? My understanding was that those were so old school that they were considered archaic and barbaric for cleft repair. Millard is one of the more common approaches to cleft repair in North America. Delaire probably being second, depending on where you are.
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I don't know why he's mentioning everything else under the sun. And he's misinforming you too... Arkansas does not have an OMFS residency. Beware of what Dr. Franky has to tell you. So far he's not making a very good impression on the rest of us.
Most strong OMFS programs will have some exposure to it. A handful of residencies will give you an excellent exposure to it. Even if you don't get the exposure you want, you can do a fellowship afterwards and then do all the clefts and craniofacial surgeries you can get your hands on.
Most strong OMFS programs will have some exposure to it. A handful of residencies will give you an excellent exposure to it. Even if you don't get the exposure you want, you can do a fellowship afterwards and then do all the clefts and craniofacial surgeries you can get your hands on.
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Dr.OMS FAN, as you are now, I was very enthusiastic when I started my OMS residency and I thought that if I knew the most surgical tech's I would be very much successful, first, once you get to your own practice believe me you dont have to worry about income but quality professionalism, second, the best money is made through facial deformities, Laser Resurfacing and Rejuvenations techs, Blepharoplasties, Rhynoplasties, Chin Implants, and most of all Minor surgical procedures as well as to Traumatologies cases. Big time money is Dental Implants, bone grafts like Ridge augmentation and Sinus bone grafts, even the Subperiostical Implants are very useful in thin Madibular bones, TMJ are an excellent source of important income and of course if you like to perform Third's is up to you, I find it very time consuming so I pass those.
You're saying a set of thirds takes you longer than all that other crap?
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Thanks Guys. I appreciate the info.
So lets say you want to do a fellowship in an area that your particular program wasn't really strong but you somehow got exposure and got all worked up over it. Example, you go to UCLA where you get essentially no cancer, but you try to get into a fellowship in Onc...Does this make it very difficult? I guess what I'm asking is should you really focus on programs that tend to do a lot of procedures in the area that you guess you may really like? I would lean towards looking at programs that tend to be pretty well rounded without a major slant toward any given area so that I get some decent exposure to all and then get to really make an eduated choice.
So lets say you want to do a fellowship in an area that your particular program wasn't really strong but you somehow got exposure and got all worked up over it. Example, you go to UCLA where you get essentially no cancer, but you try to get into a fellowship in Onc...Does this make it very difficult? I guess what I'm asking is should you really focus on programs that tend to do a lot of procedures in the area that you guess you may really like? I would lean towards looking at programs that tend to be pretty well rounded without a major slant toward any given area so that I get some decent exposure to all and then get to really make an eduated choice.
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oms fan, I apologize to you , I meant to offer my very humble professional and personal info, unfortunally as we all know there certain types of unsecure students or maybe resident beginer that perhaps have read some literature about OMS and now they are feeling like experts, These are the cases where all professional jelousy starts old problems within the OMS community, I wonder how many of this kids have gotten a law suit for talking to much. Maybe they need a GLOSSOPLASTY reduction combined with a glossograft into their anal esphinter so they can fulfill and satisfy their own ego. Again I apologize and my best recommendation is that you, as I did, send an email to ADA and ask for the OMS programs and just find out by yourself. Any program is excellent, Cleft Lip and Palate is NOT a source of any income due to the fact of its incidence, mainly pretty much public hospital and private entities do them for free. And for your future specialty just because you have done some CLP doesn't mean that suddenly you've became a Pediatric Plastic Surgeon. Carry with pride you post-doctoral degree OMS. THE worlds best OMFS programs are not in USA, if you are able to try England, France, Germany has a super OMS program, and last but least you could even try Japan medical /dental School, which they have one of the best OMS program worldwide.
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I am a DSII at Oklahoma, and last summer I did a retrospective study of cleft pt's with one of our OMF surgeons. He has worked on about 175 cleft patients in the last 10 years including one Tessier cleft patient (managed by both him and an ophthalmologist).
We have a pediatric hospital and two Drs that do a lot of cleft work. One is a DDS with an OMFS certificate and a fellowship in cleft palate. The other is a DDS/MD with a plastics fellowship. They do a lot of palatoplasies, pharyngoplasties, chelioplasties, and rhinoplasties on cleft pt's. They handle all of the surgical care themselves. I don't think the other OMF surgeons do cleft, and the plastics and ENT surgeons don't seem to do much cleft stuff.
Since OU is a comprehensive health sciences center we have the ability to do interdisciplinary stuff, and we have a Cleft Clinic one morning each month where the cleft patients come (usually about twice per year). At the clinic they are seen by OMF, orthodontics, pediatric dentistry, audiology, speech pathology, social workers, genetic counselors, and patient advocates. After the clinic all the professionals meet for lunch to discuss the cases and their recommendations for each patient.
We have a pediatric hospital and two Drs that do a lot of cleft work. One is a DDS with an OMFS certificate and a fellowship in cleft palate. The other is a DDS/MD with a plastics fellowship. They do a lot of palatoplasies, pharyngoplasties, chelioplasties, and rhinoplasties on cleft pt's. They handle all of the surgical care themselves. I don't think the other OMF surgeons do cleft, and the plastics and ENT surgeons don't seem to do much cleft stuff.
Since OU is a comprehensive health sciences center we have the ability to do interdisciplinary stuff, and we have a Cleft Clinic one morning each month where the cleft patients come (usually about twice per year). At the clinic they are seen by OMF, orthodontics, pediatric dentistry, audiology, speech pathology, social workers, genetic counselors, and patient advocates. After the clinic all the professionals meet for lunch to discuss the cases and their recommendations for each patient.
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oms fan, I apologize to you , I meant to offer my very humble knowledge of US residencies , based on my current position in a US residency, and the fact that I researched the Majority of the US residencies before applying , Becaause I thought you were a US Citizen desiring a US residency , unfortunately as we all know there certain types of unsecure foreigners who feel like experts in US oral surgery residency because they heard about it in Munchen.
WHat on earth are you talking about Frank?!?
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Programs I know get pretty good exposure to craniofacial are Pittsburgh w/Costello, Louisville w/Tiwana, Maryland w/Caccamese (not sure how busy these days, but trying to build his practice), Shreveport w/Ghali (I think... he pretty much does everything...), and Michigan just got a Costello trained guy there. Here at UAB, we do a lot of ICBG for cleft pt's around 6-9 years old, and a week long mission trip to Mexico for primary closure yearly. Hope this helps...
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Louisville seemed to have some of the best exposure in the country. At their interview they said the residents split the case and Tiwana doesn't scrub. Costello has a fellow and still does a LOT of the cutting. UAB is gay but just because of the residents. We have a guy that does some, not sure how much because it is a 5th year rotation. I've post-op'ed a couple of his distractions. No primary lips or anything.
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This reminds me of the ol' saying, "It is better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
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I thought OMS Fan was asking about training, not his potential for future income.
Anyway, back to the subject, I have been told that Carle does the most primary cleft work.
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I wouldn't doubt it. All 3 full-time Attendings do cleft surgery, even though one of them doesn't do it very much anymore. They have a very well run Cleft Lip and Palate team.
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UT-Memphis has a Costello craniofacial fellow trained attending that has already starting doing primary clefts.
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Now that our good buddy Frank is gone, I thought I'd repost this to see if there are any takers.
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Again, Stick to well rounded programs... This way you will experience more, and really see if there is an area you wish to focus more on. Some very well rounded programs may provide you with all you need to do anything you chose.
In the end, if you want to do a fellowship, just apply. You are just as likely to get into a fellowship if you have proven yourself in ANY residency you attend. (OF course there are some limitations, because some fellowships require MD's etc... but you get the point).
In the end, if you want to do a fellowship, just apply. You are just as likely to get into a fellowship if you have proven yourself in ANY residency you attend. (OF course there are some limitations, because some fellowships require MD's etc... but you get the point).
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Oklahoma has a massive cleft program and fellowship with Dr Smith
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1. Maxillofacial prosthodontics programs will do a lot of these (unless you're in a major cancer center).
2. Also Case Western Reserve University has a craniofacial orthodontic fellowship.
Both of these require you to do Prosthodontics and Orthodontics residencies first, respectively.
2. Also Case Western Reserve University has a craniofacial orthodontic fellowship.
Both of these require you to do Prosthodontics and Orthodontics residencies first, respectively.
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The topic is primary and secondary cleft repairs.
