Binghamton University Pre-Med vs. Stony Brook

[DocZajStuDoc259]

I know that there have been many posts addressing this issue. However, I'm still undecided about which college to attend and the deadline for deposits is approaching. People say that Stony is known more for its sciences and mathematics, but Bing is known more for its humanities, social sciences and business. There are others who say that Bing's science programs aren't so terrible that one wouldn't be prepared as a pre-medical student. Which school has the environment? People say that Stony Brook is pretty dead on weekends and doesn't have that great of a social life. People claim that Bing is more fun and has a stronger sense of community. However, is Stony Brook's living conditions truly that bad, or can one still be happy at Stony Brook and if so, how easily? Although Bing is apparently more fun, it is located in an isolated town. Does that mean fewer opportunities for research and internships? Also are the professors, especially the science professors, better at Stony or Bing? I hear that Bing's professors rely on TAs a lot. Is that true? Also which school offers better volunteer/researach opportunities?
As a student, yes, I want to go to a school that will prepare me well for what I want to do. However, I also want to enjoy myself. If I don't feel enthusiastic about the school, I feel that my grades will suffer, especially if the program is competitive. At a fun school, despite the competition, I feel that I'll have the motivation to do better, but who knows until then? Binghamton offers a crew and swimming club, both sports of which I am interested in. However, Stony only offers a crew club and I prefer swimming to crew.
Also, I can't help thinking about the possibility of being weeded out from the pre-med track. If so, wouldn't going to a school that is known for its excellent academics overall, not just science (Binghamton) would that be a better fit for me? Would going to Binghamton be a disadvantage for a pre-med student, or does Bing prepare students just as well for medical school? Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks for your help!

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[YankeesMD]

I'm a current senior in the same exact situation and I chose Binghamton for a few reasons.

Number one, the amount of pre-meds at Stony Brook. Stony Brook is a science school, there's no doubt about it. 40% or so of the students that go there major in some type of pre-health. That's an overwhelming amount. I can imagine how competitive the atmosphere is there in the pre-med classes. I wouldn't be able to deal with that. There's a pretty solid amount of kids doing pre-med at binghamton, but it's nothing close to Stony Brook. It's probably more like 10% or 15% compared to almost half the school at Stony Brook. Pre-med at binghamton seems more relaxed and I like how there's more diversity in terms of what people major in. There's enough people doing pre-med that I'll be able to find a group of people to study with but not to the point where there's hundreds of kids competing for grades/internships/research positions.

Second, I visited Stony Brook (3 times, actually) and was not impressed at all. The campus was absolutely dead (on both week ends and school days) and there seemed to be no school spirit or cohesion among the students at all. It looked like a continuation of high school, people walked to class, sat through class, then went home or back to their dorm. At bing there were kids hanging out outside and in the dining halls and stuff. I knew from the first time I visited that I would not be happy at Stony Brook. Doing pre-med is a huge commitment and is going to require a ton of work. I know myself. If I'm not happy/comfortable where I am, my grades will suffer.

There are other, smaller, things that I liked about bing. The dorms are a million times nicer, the food was better, more things to do on campus, etc.

I'm also going for the early assurance programs that bing offers with SUNY Upstate and SUNY Buffalo. Basically if you maintain a certain GPA (3.5 for upstate and 3.75 for Buffalo), got a certain M/CR SAT score (1300 for upstate and 1400 for buffalo), you can get guaranteed acceptance at one of the schools. You need a 30 MCAT for the upstate and the MCAT requirement is waived for the Buffalo one. My goal is the Buffalo one but I'll have to see how that goes. You can read more about those here: http://www2.binghamton.edu/pre-health/Fr-SoHandbook2012Revised.pdf (pages 19 and 20)

Although Bing is apparently more fun, it is located in an isolated town. Does that mean fewer opportunities for research and internships?

When I visited/talked with students, the general consensus is that the research is there, you just have to be active about getting it and it won't just come to you (like at any college). Nobody who wanted and actively pursued a research position couldn't get one. There were a few bioengineering kids doing amazing things like alzheimers/cancer research that people think is only at Stony Brook. There are a few hospitals around the area and labs on campus you can do research in.

My main point is that college in general, and especially pre-med specifically, is a huge commitment and I wasn't going to sacrifice being happy for a school that has a "reputation" for being a science school when all I've heard is that you can get the same things at Binghamton. It might take a little more effort to do these things but to me it's worth it.

Just think about what you need to be a successful med school applicant, and whether you can find these things at Binghamton:

A high GPA and good MCAT score? Of course, you can do that at any school.
Hospital volunteering/doctor shadowing? Yep, there are 3 hospitals in the city of Binghamton.
Research positions? Yes.
ECs? There are plenty, I plan on doing the volunteer EMT service, joing a pre-med club/society, IEEE Engineering in Medicine and Biology Society (Binghamton Bioengineers), and maybe an intramural sport just to name a few.

It's all there. People blow the fact that Stony Brook is a science-oriented school way out of proportion. If you go to Stony Brook, you can go to medical school if you apply yourself and do well. If you go to Binghamton, you can go to medical school if you apply yourself and do well. It's as simple as that. Going to the school you will be unhappy just because it ranks higher in science (which are mostly grad school rankings anyway) is not a smart move in my opinion.


If you have any more questions about why I made my decision just let me know.

Good luck.

 

[DocZajStuDoc259]

Thanks! Let's say that you don't want to participate in the Early Assurance Programs. Can you still go to a stellar med school like Weil Cornell if you apply yourself? I was just so uncertain about Bing because they don't really advertise their med school acceptances in terms of percentage and what schools people get accepted to, while Stony Brook does. Also, I tried e-mailing the adviser some questions but never received any reply. However, Stony Brook's adviser replied as soon as possible, within 3,4, or 5 days after my two e-mails. Isn't that a bad sign about the availability of Bing's pre-med advisers? Also, did you visit Bing's campus? I never got a chance to because the accepted student days for both schools were on the same days. I went on Saturday for Stony, but could not find someone to carpool with to go to Bing on Sunday. If so, didn't you feel that Bing is in the middle of nowhere? Yes, the research is there, but to me isn't it better to have the opportunities at your finger tips (Stony Brook's hospital is like a block away)? This is why I'm having trouble deciding which college to choose. Yes, Bing does seem fun and great on campus and Stony seems to be dull and depressing (though there are people who like it) on campus, but is fun more important than academics? I'm not so sure. Bing does offer me the clubs I'm interested in (crew, swimming) and people seem to update club info more so than Stony's (if you check their website). It seems Bing is more into their sports than Stony. But do sports really take precedence over academics? I don't know. Also, if I just put in the work and sit it out at Stony, wouldn't I still do as well? I actually went to a high school that didn't exactly contribute to my happiness, though I eventually found my niche and got used to it. My school was overcrowded and did not have a swimming team. I really wanted to participate in competitive swimming in high school. Despite all of the unfavorable characteristics of my high school, I still found my niche and the group of friends who shared the same or similar ideals as me. Can't I just adapt to college the same way I did in high school? If you give me more input, that would be great thanks!

 

[YankeesMD]

Thanks! Let's say that you don't want to participate in the Early Assurance Programs. Can you still go to a stellar med school like Weil Cornell if you apply yourself? I was just so uncertain about Bing because they don't really advertise their med school acceptances in terms of percentage and what schools people get accepted to, while Stony Brook does. Also, I tried e-mailing the adviser some questions but never received any reply. However, Stony Brook's adviser replied as soon as possible, within 3,4, or 5 days after my two e-mails. Isn't that a bad sign about the availability of Bing's pre-med advisers?

Of course you can. The general consensus is that your school name doesn't carry that much weight in the med school application process, unless it's something like Harvard vs. a community college. Stony Brook and Binghamton are on the same tier so neither one would have a name advantage over the other. If you have the stats (which can definitely be done at either school), going to either one wouldn't hold you back from getting into a top med school.

In terms of the med school acceptance rate, it says on Stony Brook's website:

"71% of first-time applicants applying to enter M.D. programs in the United States for 2012 with a cumulative grade point average of 3.5 or above and an MCAT score of 30 or above were accepted."

Now, that sounds really good, but if you look at https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/2012factstable25-4.pdf it says that students who averaged a 3.6 GPA (I averaged the 3.40-3.59 and 3.60-3.79 categories to get 3.6) and 30-32 MCAT range had about a 65% acceptance rate. And that's representing the entire country, so it's probably safe to assume there are schools with lower quality programs bringing that rate down a bit. So as you can see, people who had about a 3.6 GPA and 30-32 MCAT (what's considered to be the minimum for a "strong" applicant) had a 70% acceptance rate for med schools coming from Stony and a 65% acceptance rate on average over the entire country. In my opinion, that's a minimal difference. And the numbers are still skewed a bit towards Stony because that's counting the stellar outlier applicants from Stony with 3.9+/36+ that would have gotten in no matter where they went to undergrad, while the national average only counts for people with 3.6/30-32.

Also, apparently Bing does publish a statistic here:

http://www2.binghamton.edu/think/results/achievement/alumni-achievement.html

It says that "Sixty-five percent who apply to medical school are accepted, compared with 46 percent nationally". Now, they don't say anything about GPA and MCAT like it does on Stony's website but I'm assuming their counting what they believe to be "qualified applicants" (3.5+/30+). Notice how Acceptance rate for Bing = Acceptance rate for "qualified applicants" nationally = (approximately) Acceptance rate for Stony.

As for emailing the adviser. I don't really know what to tell you. Since right now is the end of an applicant cycle (I believe), he might have been really busy. When I went to Bing's open house, I actually didn't get to talk to the adviser, but I did get to talk to a professor in the Biology department who put it very simply, "those who want it will get in". People who try to breeze through classes and don't make the extra effort to actively pursue and contact professors to do research will get rejected and those who go the extra mile and do well in their classes and want it bad enough are the ones who get in. Which is pretty much the case at every school.

I'm not sure the advising at binghamton is great. It's good to have good advising, but I don't expect someone to hold my hand through the process. I know (roughly) what I have to do to get in. The premed handbook that I linked you to before in my previous post has a ton of good stuff and I think talks about the advising a little.

Also, did you visit Bing's campus? I never got a chance to because the accepted student days for both schools were on the same days. I went on Saturday for Stony, but could not find someone to carpool with to go to Bing on Sunday. If so, didn't you feel that Bing is in the middle of nowhere? Yes, the research is there, but to me isn't it better to have the opportunities at your finger tips (Stony Brook's hospital is like a block away)?

I did. Bing is kind of in the middle of nowhere, I'll be honest. Kids who go there tell you it's not but they're lying. However Stony Brook is in an equally crappy location (I mean, it's Long Island, ew...) and there's nothing to do off-campus unless you take a train into the city which I wouldn't want to do. Bing has lots of stuff to do on campus to make up for lackluster city of Vestal, NY.

Like I said before, there are 3 hospitals in the city of Binghamton and a walk-in clinic (USH) literally across the street from the campus that you can volunteer/shadow at. There is a hospital and lab right on campus for Stony, but just think about how many other pre-health students are competing for those spots. I'm not saying you won't be able to get the spots, but the odds are against you. With 40% of 16k kids doing premed at Stony and 15% or so of 12k kids at Bing doing premed you can see the difference. 1,800 vs. 6,400.

Yes, Bing does seem fun and great on campus and Stony seems to be dull and depressing (though there are people who like it) on campus, but is fun more important than academics? I'm not so sure. Bing does offer me the clubs I'm interested in (crew, swimming) and people seem to update club info more so than Stony's (if you check their website). It seems Bing is more into their sports than Stony. But do sports really take precedence over academics?

For me, it's not fun vs. academics. I don't plan on partying much at all at school. Will I go out on weekends? Of course. But academics and grades will always be put first, even if that means sacrificing a few weekends. It's more of a comfortability issue. I was not comfortable at Stony Brook. I want to go to a school where people stay on campus except on breaks, not where half the school majors in the same subject and wants to pursue the same career. And yes, diversity is great and all, and I consider myself pretty liberal, but 50% asian/hispanic isn't exactly appealing to me, sorry. Binghamton has plenty of diversity that isn't really skewed towards one ethnicity.

Stony actually has better sports haha. Their Baseball team made it to the College WS last year and their basketball team almost made the NCAA tourney (they lost in the conference championships to SUNY Albany). That wasn't a major consideration in my opinion. If I cared about that I would have went to a big 10 or ACC school like Wisconsin or Maryland.

Also, if I just put in the work and sit it out at Stony, wouldn't I still do as well? I actually went to a high school that didn't exactly contribute to my happiness, though I eventually found my niche and got used to it. My school was overcrowded and did not have a swimming team. I really wanted to participate in competitive swimming in high school. Despite all of the unfavorable characteristics of my high school, I still found my niche and the group of friends who shared the same or similar ideals as me. Can't I just adapt to college the same way I did in high school?

Yes and yes. If you put 110% into being a premed student and make it your goal to get into med school from day 1 you step onto campus, you will get in. If you can be happy at Stony Brook, go there. But for me, the pros did not outweigh the cons. I know if I go down the premed route it will be 11-12 years before I can really start enjoying the benefits. I'm not going to sacrifice my college experience when, as I've shown, you can get the same results from either school.

I could go on and on defending my choice, but I think you get the point.

Good luck man, you only have like 30ish hours left!

 

[DocZajStuDoc259]

Thanks! I'm actually not interested the sports mentioned lol. It just seems that Bing's crew has quite a number of awards and they seem to keep their website updated, vs. that of Stony, whose website is basically empty. Also, a little more about myself. I'm not the sort of person who would just walk up to any stranger and be like, "Hello, my name is.....Nice to meet you!....Let's be friends!" I'm more of an introvert. I guess you could say that I'm socially awkward and I really don't know how to approach people like that. Wouldn't I make more friends via clubs? In that case, would the general campus life really make a difference? And also, yes maybe there are more pre-meds at Stony, but does that necessarily mean that there are better pre-meds at Stony than Bing? What if the top of Stony's pre-med is as good if not slightly worse than Bing's? Then isn't the competition the same? There are also less than stellar students who enter as pre-meds. Isn't that true? This is also why I'm insecure. Yes, it's a risk since I don't know for sure. If I end up in Stony and end up hating it, I'll regret it, but I'll just have to work with what I have. Also, have you asked people around for grading curves and professor reviews? Did you ask family members, relatives, friends, etc. for reviews? Thanks again!

 

[YankeesMD]

I think the campus life definitely makes a difference. And I'm not extremely outgoing myself, so having lots of clubs to meet people is definitely a plus. In my opinion, happiness directly correlates with higher grades.

Even if the premeds are weaker at Stony, you'll still be competing with them for things that don't have to do with grades like hospital volunteering and stuff like that. I just can't picture there being intense premed competition at bing. Especially with the amount of kids that do business and liberal arts there. It just seems more relaxed. I could be completely wrong, I guess I'll find out after my first semester.

It's a risk, but to me it's worth it. If I absolutely hate it, then I guess I'll be even more motivated to get really good grades so I can transfer out.

I didn't get any info really about grading or curves or anything, and the only people I talked to were the ones who were at the open house who all had good things to say (obviously, that's why they were chosen to be there haha)

 

[DocZajStuDoc259]

Doesn't that go for Stony as well?

 

[YankeesMD]

Which part?

But in general this advice applies to pretty much any school yes. (except for the competition part)

 

[DocZajStuDoc259]

"It's a risk, but to me it's worth it. If I absolutely hate it, then I guess I'll be even more motivated to get really good grades so I can transfer out." This part.

 

[DocZajStuDoc259]

Oh shoot, and I totally forgot to ask. Isn't it harder to get into Bing? Doesn't that mean there are smarter people there, which means that there's more competition regardless, pre-med or no pre-med? Also, there are general requirements. What if the people do better in the liberal arts than you? That also went across my head when I tried to make a decision. Thanks.

 

[YankeesMD]

Yeah, that's pretty general advice that would apply to any undergrad school.

Isn't it harder to get into Bing?

Overall, I would say so yes. The acceptance rates are both around 40% but the average SAT/ACT and GPA are much higher at bing.

Doesn't that mean there are smarter people there, which means that there's more competition regardless, pre-med or no pre-med?

Not necessarily. Harpur College of Arts and Sciences is probably the second easiest college in bing to get into (behind the College of Community and Public Affairs), and that's where most of the pre-med students are. The overall numbers of the school are driven up by the students who get into the School of Management and Watson (engineering school), which are much harder to get into. I personally got into Watson for bioengineering but I'm considering switching to neuroscience in Harpur.

Also, there are general requirements. What if the people do better in the liberal arts than you?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You do have to take english and other gen eds, but I don't think those classes are really curved-based like Bio and Chem are. I don't think liberal arts majors who take those classes would really affect you.

 

[DocZajStuDoc259]

Oh, and you said that " but 50% asian/hispanic isn't exactly appealing to me, sorry." Is it true that the Asian population there is that bad? I'm Asian myself, and yes, I would like more diversity and would like to interact with people other than Asians. But is that a factor I should really consider in decisions?

 

[DocZajStuDoc259]

Oh, and do the teachers teach at Bing or rely on TAs? Do you know? How about Stony?

 

[YankeesMD]

It's 25% asian and 10% hispanic, you can find those numbers online. I got them off the collegeboard website. And yes, it's pretty prevalent when you are on campus.

Is that a factor you should consider? Only you can answer that. I did, though.

When I went, they said that you will never be taught by a TA unless the professor is sick or cannot make it to class for whatever reason. In the pre req science classes, you will be taught by a professor in probably a large lecture hall with anywhere between 100 and 300 kids and then you will break into smaller groups of 20-30 and go over the material with a TA.

I'm not sure about Stony but I'd assume it's the same thing.