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Bio/Chem/Physics in the same semester?
- Thread starter justin984
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Traditional premeds (and those in post-bacc programs) often take a similar courseload. For instance, I know many undergrads who take Bio, Chem, and Calculus in the same semester. Taking Bio, Chem, and Physics AND their accompanying labs will definitely keep you busy, but should be doable. This coming fall, I am taking Bio I (+ lab), Physics I (+ lab), and OChem I. Im anticipating a long semester, but I'm remaining optimistic that I can do it. If worse comes to worst, you could always start by taking all three and then drop one if it becomes too much...
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TOTALLY doable. I did it with a couple higher level math classes - it's no big deal if you're good with numbers and are disciplined in your studying.
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justin984 said:
I took Organic, Physics and two upper-level Bio courses at the same time for two straight semesters, and worked about 20 hours per week. Four labs a week was tough, but I made A's in all of them. So...yes, it's doable. However, you have to be very disciplined.
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I went to the OSUCOM openhouse back in april and as a nontrad I asked the question about a good course schedule in my undergrad to show I can do a medschool load. The admissions people told me as a nontrad I should not only show good numbers with an upward trend, but also show at least 1 semester with a course load of at least 15 hours of upper level science to show I can do it. In the fall I'm taking Organic I, Physics II, Histology from the department chairman(everyone knows what a hard ass they can be!)and Botony if I can fit it in. The point being, even though they all have labs and will be difficult, the admissions committe will see that I'm not taking a few science courses at a time, but that i'm taking hard classes and can handle it. My goal is nothing below a B. But realisticly I've taken zoology with the department head I mentioned and a c would be a blessing, at least straight B's in everything else in the fall will keep my upward trend intact.
The bottom line take as much as you are sure you can get good grades in, it can really help you.
The bottom line take as much as you are sure you can get good grades in, it can really help you.
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It's totally doable. I took all my pre-req's in one year.
Semester I
Chem 105 w/lab
Organic I
Phyics I w/ Lab
Biochem
Semester II
Chem 106 w/lab
Organic II
Organic Lab
Physics II w/Lab
I worked a 32 hour week and had a toddler. You just have to be organized.
Semester I
Chem 105 w/lab
Organic I
Phyics I w/ Lab
Biochem
Semester II
Chem 106 w/lab
Organic II
Organic Lab
Physics II w/Lab
I worked a 32 hour week and had a toddler. You just have to be organized.
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Can I be the umpteenth person to say that I also did it and so can you??!! I wouldn't say everyone could do it. I took Gen Bio, Gen Physics, Orgo Chem, all labs, Kaplan MCAT class and 1st born arrived 17 days before the MCAT!! Next semester same courseload but no Physics lab and no MCAT, instead worked Fri-Sun tending bar (about 23 hrs). Yes it can be done (aka 3.5 or better), yes it is very difficult. If you're not disciplined and ready to sacrifice personal time it is not a good idea, however.
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I took 4 science classes with 4 labs, volunteered 8 hours (at 2 different places) a week and commuted some 50 miles a day in the Fall. It was hell and I was not a happy person b/c I had no free time at all, didn't sleep very much and had to abandon exercise. I did get away with good grades (just one B), but honestly I didn't learn everything.
Fall: Bio 1 w/Lab, GChem 2 w/Lab, OChem 1 w/Lab, and Physics 1 w/Lab
Winter: OChem 2 plus one fun class
Spring: Bio 2 w/Lab, OChem 2 Lab, Biochem w/Lab, MCATs
Later: F/T job and Physics 2 w/Lab
If I didn't have to commute so much, I'd be much happier. Also, if I had the option to do research or other healthcare related work, I'd rather take 3 classes, 3 labs, and work 10-20 hours/week.
Fall: Bio 1 w/Lab, GChem 2 w/Lab, OChem 1 w/Lab, and Physics 1 w/Lab
Winter: OChem 2 plus one fun class
Spring: Bio 2 w/Lab, OChem 2 Lab, Biochem w/Lab, MCATs
Later: F/T job and Physics 2 w/Lab
If I didn't have to commute so much, I'd be much happier. Also, if I had the option to do research or other healthcare related work, I'd rather take 3 classes, 3 labs, and work 10-20 hours/week.
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My first try wasn't successful with it as a freshman in college..but I was stupid, unprepared and undiciplined. (not really "upper level" but hard enough at the time) Accelerated Calc, Chem 1+lab, Calc based physics+lab, gen bio +lab and architecture theory...the calc stuff was what really sent me in the hole though since I had never had calc before and it was just a vicious downward circle. Id ropped most of the courses to prevent from hurting too much but starting next spring I'm going to try this shiznit again.lol
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Other posters show how it can be done, but my experience is that to do well in these classes and actually understand the material (at least in G-chem and physics) you need to do lots of studying outside class. For G-chem, class met 5 days a week and there was one 3 hour lab per week. Physics meets 5 days a week and there is one 2-hour lab per week. I spent about two hours each day after G-chem doing the day's homework. Physics I probably put in another 5 hours per week outside of class. So just those two alone for me = G-chem @ 8 hours of class time + 10 hours of studying = 18 hours, + Physics @ 7 hours of class time + 5 hours of studying outside of class = 12 hours, for a total of 30 hours.
For biology, class met 4 times per week and one 3-hour lab per week, so that alone is 7 hours. Plus about 4 hours a week studying (including preparing for tests, etc.), comes out to 11 hours.
Add the above and you have >40 hours of school alone. Do you work? I worked between 40 and 50 hours a week when taking the courses and have two kids at home. I only took two courses per quarter, so approx. 30 hours total class+study / week + 40 hours working = 70 hours per week.
I guess my point is, yes it can be done but it sucks, and if you have to work it becomes difficult to balance your time. You'll have to make a job of the classwork - do it everyday after class and keep up.
Hope my perspective is food for thought.
For biology, class met 4 times per week and one 3-hour lab per week, so that alone is 7 hours. Plus about 4 hours a week studying (including preparing for tests, etc.), comes out to 11 hours.
Add the above and you have >40 hours of school alone. Do you work? I worked between 40 and 50 hours a week when taking the courses and have two kids at home. I only took two courses per quarter, so approx. 30 hours total class+study / week + 40 hours working = 70 hours per week.
I guess my point is, yes it can be done but it sucks, and if you have to work it becomes difficult to balance your time. You'll have to make a job of the classwork - do it everyday after class and keep up.
Hope my perspective is food for thought.
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I just want to add that I have significantly cut back on work (40/50 hours to approx 30 hours) over the last year in order to have more time with my family. The above schedule was killing me. I am much happier and motivated (just got Physics III this summer and then I am done!!!).
So if you are doing it for only one year, then maybe it would work. Don't burn out though.
RisingSun
So if you are doing it for only one year, then maybe it would work. Don't burn out though.
RisingSun
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RisingSun said:
I agree with RisingSun. What I noticed, for myself at least, is that I got so burned out (and crispy) that I ended up half-assing the MCATs. Well, I was very focused for the first 4 weeks of studying for the MCATs, then I hit a blank wall b/c the weather was getting really nice and my brain just couldn't process variations of the same basic sciences anymore. Now that you don't want!!!
So plan accordingly, with extended rest breaks (mini-vacations).
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I also want to add that when I was starting to burn out in the middle of the semester -- I finally asked my undergrad classmates what kind of load they're taking. And the consensus was either A) 2 science classes + labs, 1 non-science, and 10 hrs of work... or B) 3 science classes + labs. This was coming from A students in the top 10%.
So at 4, I maxed out more than anyone else. And again, I don't recommend the misery.
So at 4, I maxed out more than anyone else. And again, I don't recommend the misery.
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i did
Bio w/lab
OChem w/lab
Physics w/lab
English/History
for one year and it was evil. no really really evil. i wouldn't do it again because i feel i really sacrificed full understanding (esp for physics) i had labs due almost everyday, which is so time consuming and as some posters have said, physics and ochem need lots of time to study/work problems. i had no life and was burnt by october and again by march. they only good thing was it forced me to be disciplined and learn how to say no.
Bio w/lab
OChem w/lab
Physics w/lab
English/History
for one year and it was evil. no really really evil. i wouldn't do it again because i feel i really sacrificed full understanding (esp for physics) i had labs due almost everyday, which is so time consuming and as some posters have said, physics and ochem need lots of time to study/work problems. i had no life and was burnt by october and again by march. they only good thing was it forced me to be disciplined and learn how to say no.
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Sporky said:
I took my classes in Alaska.
I should also say that I already had my degree when I took that year for med school admission prep. Most classes I already took so I didn't have to worry about having Chem I before taking OChem (I already had it for my degree) so it wasn't the first time around for me.
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RisingSun said:
I would second this notion. Yes it can be done. But only do it if you are strong in the sciences, or you may end up with a slate of B's when you really could have paced it better and gotten A's. This isn't a race. If adding an extra year means you get the grades that make you competitive, then you owe it to yourself to do so.
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Law2Doc said:
Can anyone comment on my Fall schedule:
5 units of Bio II (with lab)
3 units of OChem I (no lab)
4 units of Physics I (calculus-based with lab).
4 units of Quantitative Chem (with lab).
I'm afraid I'm going to be killed with this schedule since I am also volunteering and working part time.
I wanted to take Quant over the summer, but the course was full; I'm taking Calculus instead.
I'm tempted to drop the Physics and take just 2 lab courses. Note: Quantitative chem is not required for med school but is required to take uppper division courses for my major (biochemistry/microbiology). Physics is a dead-end course; it is not required by any other upper division course I need.
Does this same advice apply to older nontrads? I'm already over 40.Law2Doc said:
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dasta said:
No med school is going to see any difference whether you are, say, 41 when you apply or 43. You will face the same hurdles, and will likely end up being the oldest one in any school that accepts you. But schools will definitely see a difference if you apply with a slate of A's over two years versus a slate of B's in one. That's my two cents.
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Only you can decide whether you can handle that schedule or not, but I know I wouldn't be able to. Quantitative Chem (or Analytical Chem at my school) takes a sh#$load of time. Lab at my school is 4 hours once a week but you also have to go in on average for at least a couple more hours each week to analyze stuff or redo things when you get crappy results, and then the write-ups are insanely long. I tried taking Analytical with Organic II (+ lab), Genetics (+ lab), Calc I, and a history class and it was too much. I ended up withdrawing. You're looking at 3 very time-consuming courses and your "fluff" course would be the bio which isn't really a "fluff" course. I'd definitely wait on Physics.dasta said:
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Olddodger said:
Yep, I had to take it last term. I ordered an ACS General Chemistry study guide, which helped my preparation quite a bit since there is so much information that was covered (i.e. it coverd Gen Chem I and II).
The study guide can be found at:
http://www3.uwm.edu/dept/chemexams/guides/index.cfm
Well worth the $12 + shipping. Good luck.
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JamieMac said:
Sort of a bump here, but the ACS seemed to have wreaked havok with a LOT of people, as it does every year (national average is around %57). If this test is in your future, MAKE SURE you get the test guide from the above address! The questions, as asked, are very different than what you find in your typical chem text.
I went through EVERY question in the book and made SURE I understood the concepts for each, and I pulled off a decent grade, but it was a ton of work (about 3 weeks prep), and there were still more than a few questions on the test that had me 😕 .
Good luck!
Oldie
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VERY DOABLE. I took Bio I, Gen Chem II, Physics II, and a very rough English class in the same semester. I made all A's except for the English class, which I made an A- in. Don't mean this as blowing my own horn. Just for encouragement. Also worked part time and baby sat my 3 year old daughter (at the time) while I did this. Honestly, I remember just squeaking by with the A's in Bio I, and Physics II. It all came down to having to rock the final exams in those classes.
Just don't hesitate to drop a class if you need to early on in the semester. It's better to take only 2 of the classes and get A's than it is to take all three and one or more of the grades is less than an A. I think the adcoms give extra scrutiny to the BCPM grades, so make them shine.
Just don't hesitate to drop a class if you need to early on in the semester. It's better to take only 2 of the classes and get A's than it is to take all three and one or more of the grades is less than an A. I think the adcoms give extra scrutiny to the BCPM grades, so make them shine.
N
njbmd
dasta said:
Hi there,
This is a very busy schedule with loads of lab time. Organic is going to take some time in terms of sitting down and doing loads of problems as will the Physics course. You also need to know both your organic and physics well enough to apply your knowledge for the MCAT. These courses take some digestion time so be sure that you have the time to give what they demand.
You cannot afford to not do well in any of these courses. You just do not need to show any poor grades so drop something or even a couple of things since you have some volunteering slated at the same time.
Being over 40 is not a detrement to getting into medical school provided your application is competitive. (Another reason to slow down a bit). A year or two later if your grades are outstanding is not going to make much of a difference. (The oldest person in my medical class started at age 53. He now practicing Family Medicine.). Take your time and do well. You schedule is doable but as many people have warned, you might be pretty overworked and miserable.
njbmd 🙂
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I hate the ACS exams! I've taken them for both gen chem and organic. You're right - they are nothing like the regular exams we took all year. I never saw a multiple choice question in chem other than the ACS exams. And they aren't straightforward multiple choice questions for the most part either. My gen chem class was an honors class(so nobody made below a B in Gen chem I for acceptance into the honors Gen chem II) and we all did so dismally on it our prof ended up having to drop it completely. We all used the study guides for it too. Organic was just as bad(for me anyway - overall my class did a bit better than they had in gen chem). Just remember that the ACS exams aren't a true representation of what you've actually learned in the subject because the questions are so different from what most students are used to.Olddodger said:
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Can't second this enough. If you're in a competitive program with tough instructors, taking those three classes with three labs will dominate your life. And if you want to know the material well, you'll pretty much be hitting the books full-time.medworm said:
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Skaterbabe74 said:
Hiya Skate,
No such luck for us. The ACS Gen Chem test was the final exam for Gen Chem 2, and counts as a whopping %30 percent of your lecture grade (which is %75 overall, with the lab being the other %25).
To be somewhat fair, they "norm" the scores very slightly because not all of the material on the ACS is covered in the two course sequence, and there is a slight curve on the overall class grade, but all in all, it was the toughest A I ever pulled.
I had to dig myself out of a hole from the B on the first test, but I got a marginal A on the 2nd test (not enough to pull the other one up), but I totally rocked on the Acid/Base/Thermo test (whoo hoo!). My lab grade was shaping up really well, so I was going into the final with an A that was mine to lose (ugh!). Needless to say, I was sweating bullets considering the rep the test has.
Best,
Oldie
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njbmd said:
Agreed. I took Bio 2, Gen Chem 2 (both with labs) and Statistics over the summer (12 week semester), in addition to TA'ing a Gen Chem 1 lab. It was WAY too much, and I pretty much had to work at it constantly every day with very little free time. By the end of the semester, I was toasted.
I'm taking Orgo 1, Genetics and Microbio this semester (all with labs) and probably TAing again, and I'm leaving it at that. No heroics from me this fall...it's my favorite time of year. I need to leave some time for holding my couch down.
Best,
Oldie
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Ouch. That sux. I go to a little state school so they just make the grading scheme for the chem classes lower than the rest of the classes rather than truly curve them. And actually every Gen Chem class did so badly on the ACS that semester the entire dept dropped them rather than just our prof being cool about it. It used to be an 85 was an A, now it's an 87. But you still only need a 60 or 65 for a C. That helps things a bit. I ended up not making the A in gen chem. Got a B+, but I'm ok with that. The lab for honors Gen Chem II was cool tho. We basically ran a single project all semester making a compound and then running the necessary tests to make sure it was the right compound, and then writing it all up into a publication style paper. The worst B+/B's I've gotten were the 89.25's I got in calc-based physics II and Intro to Programming(basically intro java).Olddodger said:
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Your summer load sounds as bad as mine lol. I took 16 credits this summer (they were all online classes tho - no prereqs, I'm done with those, just doing prereqs for my physics minor plus microbio over the next couple semesters).Olddodger said:
To the OP - personally I wouldn't do that load. I have to earn money to pay the bills too, and I wouldn't be able to do that with your load. I tried taking Ochem II, Analytical chem (quantitative) with Calc I, a US history course, and a critical thinking course, and that was too much along with work. I ended up dropping A chem. Then another semester I took Immunology, Orgo II (orgo is my absolute nemesis - had to retake it a couple times to get a decent grade), Molecular Bio, and Calc based physics II. I survived that one decently but taking the bio prereqs, the physics prereqs, organic, and analytical (or quantitative) is going to be a major haul. If you don't have to work at the same time it'll be doable. You won't have a life but you'll survive. If you do have to work it's a disaster waiting to happen. Bio shouldn't be too bad - out of your load that would be considered the easy class. Organic is going to be majorly time-consuming regardless of whether you are good at it or not. Physics will probably be time-consuming simply because of having to work so many problems to get it down (and worse if you aren't a natural physics person like me). Quantitative is a bear - especially labs. We'd have a 4 hour lab each week and then have to go in for another hour or two minimum to run tests or redo it if our yields didn't turn out well, and then add another 3 hours minimum into writing the lab reports because they had to be so detailed.
Spread them out. It's better to keep your sanity and do well in all 4 classes than try to rush and end up not doing as well as you'd like. Remember this is a marathon not a sprint.
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while working full time:
general chemistry 1 & 2 at local community college
after i quit
semester 1:
Physics 1 w/ lab
Orgo 1 w/ lab
Bio 110 w/ lab
semester 2:
Physics 2 w/ lab
Orgo 2
Cell Physiology w/ lab
Zoology w/ lab
Genetics
I did all A's minus a B+ in physics for semester 2. I needed that extra motivation to keep me on my toes. But yeah, this forum is much better than the other one where kids cry about getting 36's on practice MCats
general chemistry 1 & 2 at local community college
after i quit
semester 1:
Physics 1 w/ lab
Orgo 1 w/ lab
Bio 110 w/ lab
semester 2:
Physics 2 w/ lab
Orgo 2
Cell Physiology w/ lab
Zoology w/ lab
Genetics
I did all A's minus a B+ in physics for semester 2. I needed that extra motivation to keep me on my toes. But yeah, this forum is much better than the other one where kids cry about getting 36's on practice MCats
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