Bioethics in Med School?

[thinknofu3]

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Maybe any prospective students or M1s/2s can help me out with this:

I took a Bioethics class in undergrad, and absolutely loved it. It was a subject I was *really* into, but there was really no opportunity to study it in depth given my other requirements, etc. I'd really love to be able to study it further in med school (I would do a Masters in it a heartbeat if it weren't so much damn work!). Are there any good opportunities/recommendations as to how I could continue to study it as a med student? Do med schools spend any time on bioethics (besides the obvious issues)? Any suggestions as to how I could continue to keep it a part of my academic career would be extremely helpful.

 

[Goodergirl]

Maybe any prospective students or M1s/2s can help me out with this:

I took a Bioethics class in undergrad, and absolutely loved it. It was a subject I was *really* into, but there was really no opportunity to study it in depth given my other requirements, etc. I'd really love to be able to study it further in med school (I would do a Masters in it a heartbeat if it weren't so much damn work!). Are there any good opportunities/recommendations as to how I could continue to study it as a med student? Do med schools spend any time on bioethics (besides the obvious issues)? Any suggestions as to how I could continue to keep it a part of my academic career would be extremely helpful.

Although I won't be a medical student until the fall, I think I may be able to help with your question. Bioethics has been really important to me as an undergrad and I plan to continue my studies in bioethics in med. school so I asked about bioethics courses or organizations at every interview I went to. All of the schools that I interviewed at had at least a bioethics elective or somehow integrated bioethics throughout the curriculum (some did this in some sort of medicine in society course). Other schools of bioethics clubs, centers, or just ethics committees that you may be able to get involved with- it really just depends on the school. You may want to talk to someone at one of the hospitals about perhaps getting involved with the ethics committee.

 

[notdeadyet]

Maybe any prospective students or M1s/2s can help me out with this:

I took a Bioethics class in undergrad, and absolutely loved it. It was a subject I was *really* into, but there was really no opportunity to study it in depth given my other requirements, etc. I'd really love to be able to study it further in med school (I would do a Masters in it a heartbeat if it weren't so much damn work!). Are there any good opportunities/recommendations as to how I could continue to study it as a med student? Do med schools spend any time on bioethics (besides the obvious issues)? Any suggestions as to how I could continue to keep it a part of my academic career would be extremely helpful.

Might want to address this on the Allopathic forum where most of the folks are current MD students...

 

[Flopotomist]

check out Loyola's "honors program" a bunch of ethics, but not as much as the masters.

 

[THP]

MS2 here. There are required bioethics classes but I am pretty sure you will despise them. There is so much stuff you have to learn in a short amount of time for your real classes that these fluff classes are a major pain in the neck.

 

[thinknofu3]

so do most med school administrators and/or profs consider non-hard science subjects like bioethics "fluff"? (although I consider it a lot more relevant than some of the other med school classes)

 

[THP]

so do most med school administrators and/or profs consider non-hard science subjects like bioethics "fluff"? (although I consider it a lot more relevant than some of the other med school classes)

The instructors who organize the class and give the occasional lectures obviously don't think its fluff because they spend their life learning about it. The med students, however, generally think its fluff. Nobody talks about this stuff unless we are required to for the class.

 

[thinknofu3]

that makes me sad...even as stressed out as i might get, this will always be an area i care deeply about. sometimes i think the fact that med students don't take the time to learn and fully discuss these issues and their consequences is why the medical field and science in general can be so easily portrayed as insensitive and callous when it comes to ethical issues (say, stem cell research). we can only change things one person at a time.

 

[Spitting Camel]

that makes me sad...even as stressed out as i might get, this will always be an area i care deeply about. sometimes i think the fact that med students don't take the time to learn and fully discuss these issues and their consequences is why the medical field and science in general can be so easily portrayed as insensitive and callous when it comes to ethical issues (say, stem cell research). we can only change things one person at a time.

Um, 2nd year here as well. You'll agree with us when you're in our shoes. It's easy to think you know what is more relevant or important when you don't have to study or your exams and Step one at the same time. I took bioethics, even coordinated and lead discussions for 2 years. It is something I still love it, but just don't have time.

 

[worldfamousmayo]

MS2 here. There are required bioethics classes but I am pretty sure you will despise them. There is so much stuff you have to learn in a short amount of time for your real classes that these fluff classes are a major pain in the neck.

Makes sense!

 

[snapdad]

Um, 2nd year here as well. You'll agree with us when you're in our shoes. It's easy to think you know what is more relevant or important when you don't have to study or your exams and Step one at the same time. I took bioethics, even coordinated and lead discussions for 2 years. It is something I still love it, but just don't have time.

I'm an MS2, and I have to agree with this as well. 8 weeks of bioethics are required at my school, at the same time as other courses. I enjoyed the hell out of it, and thought it was an awesome class. The problem was that it came in the middle of a really compressed block where literally every single study minute needed to be spent trying to digest the tons of info about the musculoskeletal system, and ophthalmology, and dermatology, and there was just no time. In order to get through it something else had to give, and when that "something else" is one of your big core courses, you're not too happy about that.

 

[thinknofu3]

alright, so I get that I'm not going to have time necessarily for the academic study of bioethics. But do you think there might be a possibility, perhaps in M1 to shadow on ethics rounds? I know my undergrad prof does them with residents, etc - does anybody know anything about the subject? Any info would be appreciated. And thank you all for your opinions on the subject - I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.

 

[nosugrefneb]

So I guess I'll be the one in favor of bioethics. Our school, like most, has a bioethics course in the curriculum, and there are a few opportunities to TA the course in later years. We are also able to sit in on the ethics case conferences every week (all students, not just TAs) with all the ethics fellows and faculty. Also, several people in my class did summer research in ethics and have written papers as a result of their work.

My point is that yes, there is a lot of other things to worry about in medical school, but there is plenty of opportunity at most schools to pursue whatever you like, bioethics included. It's all a matter of how much time you're willing to put in on it and how much of the rest of it you're willing to sacrifice for it. If you really love bioethics, the opportunities are there and you should pursue them.

 

[MollyMalone]

So I guess I'll be the one in favor of bioethics. Our school, like most, has a bioethics course in the curriculum, and there are a few opportunities to TA the course in later years. We are also able to sit in on the ethics case conferences every week (all students, not just TAs) with all the ethics fellows and faculty. Also, several people in my class did summer research in ethics and have written papers as a result of their work.

My point is that yes, there is a lot of other things to worry about in medical school, but there is plenty of opportunity at most schools to pursue whatever you like, bioethics included. It's all a matter of how much time you're willing to put in on it and how much of the rest of it you're willing to sacrifice for it. If you really love bioethics, the opportunities are there and you should pursue them.

👍 And Pritzker goes up another several notches in my estimation.

 

[deuist]

My school also has required ethics courses. Most students wouldn't go to class if it weren't for the required attendance. I wouldn't go---and I love bioethics! The problem is that the material is boring, given at a time when we should be focusing on classes, and not pertinent to what we're doing now (i.e., I had to read cases today about clinical rotations, yet I'm only a first year).

If you are interested in pursuing bioethics further in medical school, contact the philosophy department to see if anyone specializes in the field. You might be able to to part-time research under this person. Also, some schools such as The University of Virginia have combined MD/PhD and MD/MA programs in ethics.

Edit: A few students in my program are taking a year off between MS2 and MS3 to complete Alden March's online masters program in bioethics.

 

[brats800]

check out Loyola's "honors program" a bunch of ethics, but not as much as the masters.

loyola actually has an MD/MA program....check out the website:
http://bioethics.lumc.edu/education/MD_MAprogram.htm

 

[chandelantern]

Not a med student yet but Mayo just sent us their new curriculum for next year and we have a 3 week block (not much, but definitely there) in our first year where we JUST have bio ethics, medical economics, and humanism in medicine - no hard sciences. I didn't think about it before I read some other MS responses, but perhaps the 3 weeks with just these courses will allow the students to get into the material and not just let it slip into the background of anatomy, biochem, etc, etc?

 

[thinknofu3]

Hey Shanlee 🙂

That sounds cool, also I bet the small class size at Mayo will make for some really good discussion on ethical issues. That's the best part of Bioethics, in my opinion - these issues must be discussed and picked apart for their nuances. I'm jealous 🙂

 

[SoCuteMD]

Maybe any prospective students or M1s/2s can help me out with this:

I took a Bioethics class in undergrad, and absolutely loved it. It was a subject I was *really* into, but there was really no opportunity to study it in depth given my other requirements, etc. I'd really love to be able to study it further in med school (I would do a Masters in it a heartbeat if it weren't so much damn work!). Are there any good opportunities/recommendations as to how I could continue to study it as a med student? Do med schools spend any time on bioethics (besides the obvious issues)? Any suggestions as to how I could continue to keep it a part of my academic career would be extremely helpful.

I, too, love bioethics. Unfortunately I've found that I have very little spare time, and that the ethics classes we have in med school are far more basic than anything I encountered in undergrad. Luckily some of our ethics faculty are cool, and if you want to work with them individually you can. Just approach one and ask if there's an interesting case report or something. Or if you can attend the ethics committee meetings at the hospital (THOSE were interesting...sometimes). Some of the same ideas might work at your school.

 

[LizzyM]

To the OP: You'll be a student at University of Illinois Chicago, no?

I suspect that you will have some bioethics in your curriculum. Timothy F. Murphy is a Professor of Philosophy in the Biomedical Sciences in the Department of Medical Education there. He is the author of Case Studies in Biomedical Research Ethics which is a very easy read; 149 cases (really pithy - less than 2 pages of text each) followed by study questions. It's focused on research but I suspect the same approach is taken with curriculum around clinical issues.