Bisexuality and diversity question

[DuraFlame]

I have a question.

I am a bisexual male. I have never been in a relationship with anyone, male or female. I do not have any volunteering history with the LGBT community. Given all of these, how wise - or unwise - do you believe it is to mention my bisexuality in diversity secondaries? Might it be seen as a somewhat insincere move to gain Diversity Points or something like that - will it count against me in that way? I did not have many significant experiences regarding my bisexuality, other than being beaten at a summer camp in high school because a bully believed I was gay, and the minor, insignificant prejudice I sometimes encounter when I come out to my friends.

Any opinions? Include, or not?

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[Medic741]

I'd imagine that you have more unique experiences/traits to contribute to the diversity your class than a non-normative sexual orientation -- does anything else come to mind that you could write about?

 

[wholeheartedly]

As someone else who is bi, I'd be very careful here. Being gay or lesbian is much more widely accepted than being bi. Even within the gay community you can face a lot of derision for being bi. A lot of straight people seem think its a cop out or phase and you're just too chicken to admit you're truly gay or think you should just be able to pick the heterosexual option if you have a choice.

Quite a few members of the lgbt community also think bi people are just too chicken to stand up and be counted. Then there's the perception that bi people are promiscuous and just don't want to commit. It sucks because it can be hard to feel like you belong anywhere. People just have a harder time wrapping their heads around this and quite a few bi people don't do much to counter these stereotypes.

I would say that if you aren't out in some fashion, you might not want to claim it in your diversity question. But it's a really personal decision. You have had experiences as a bi person that have likely shaped your perspective on things even if you haven't had the full gamut of experiences. Valuing diversity is about getting different perspectives and experiences and giving others the chance to see through a different set of eyes. If you are out or decide to use being bi, then I might frame it as "being a member of the lgbtq community" rather than use the word "bi" but I tend to be very cautious.


also, we have a lgbt area on here and I can move your thread there so you can get more responses from people who've been in similar situations

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I am interested in who you are as a person. I'm not interested in who you are attracted to. I would not mention it. Good luck and Best Wishes!

 

[Goro]

I have a question.

I am a bisexual male. I have never been in a relationship with anyone, male or female. I do not have any volunteering history with the LGBT community. Given all of these, how wise - or unwise - do you believe it is to mention my bisexuality in diversity secondaries? Might it be seen as a somewhat insincere move to gain Diversity Points or something like that - will it count against me in that way? I did not have many significant experiences regarding my bisexuality, other than being beaten at a summer camp in high school because a bully believed I was gay, and the minor, insignificant prejudice I sometimes encounter when I come out to my friends.

Any opinions? Include, or not?

The bolded is why it's not worth mentioning.

A gay DO colleague of mine (now in private practice) used this in interviews at times whenever people have tried to play the Bi card. "A fair number of my gay friends insist that "bi" is used by uppity men who think they're too good for "gay". What would you say to them?"

EDIT just read wholeheartedly's response above. Apparently my colleague wasn't the only one who thought that way!

 

[DuraFlame]

Goro: thank you! I could write instead about how I was a computer-science major, raised by hippies whose idea of "fun" was to move every year or two for "new experiences" and adventure.

 

[Medic741]

As someone else who is bi, I'd be very careful here. Being gay or lesbian is much more widely accepted than being bi. Even within the gay community you can face a lot of derision for being bi. A lot of straight people seem think its a cop out or phase and you're just too chicken to admit you're truly gay or think you should just be able to pick the heterosexual option if you have a choice.

Quite a few members of the lgbt community also think bi people are just too chicken to stand up and be counted. Then there's the perception that bi people are promiscuous and just don't want to commit. It sucks because it can be hard to feel like you belong anywhere. People just have a harder time wrapping their heads around this and quite a few bi people don't do much to counter these stereotypes.

I would say that if you aren't out in some fashion, you might not want to claim it in your diversity question. But it's a really personal decision. You have had experiences as a bi person that have likely shaped your perspective on things even if you haven't had the full gamut of experiences. Valuing diversity is about getting different perspectives and experiences and giving others the chance to see through a different set of eyes. If you are out or decide to use being bi, then I might frame it as "being a member of the lgbtq community" rather than use the word "bi" but I tend to be very cautious.


also, we have a lgbt area on here and I can move your thread there so you can get more responses from people who've been in similar situations

Jeez, very sorry to hear that this has been your experience -- sounds like a tough place to be

 

[LizzyM]

Goro: thank you! I could write instead about how I was a computer-science major, raised by hippies whose idea of "fun" was to move every year or two for "new experiences" and adventure.

How did this affect YOU? Moving every year or two did, perhaps, make you more adaptable and adept and sizing up a situation and determining how to fit in as "the new kid". It may have also given you exposure to different ways of life, different customs and slang than you would be familiar with if you had lived in a single small town your whole life. Those are skills that might be of value as you move through life.

 

[DuraFlame]

Agreed. Thanks. How about a sentence like "It is my humanity, more than my gender, socioeconomic status, or sexual orientation, that defines me."...it sort of implies that I'm not 100% straight, but doesn't say so outright. Thanks for telling me that I might run the risk of being BBQ'd for writing about bisexuality - it might be seen as an insincere attempt to gain Diversity Points or some other such BS'ing attempt.

 

[Sagebrush]

As someone else who is bi, I'd be very careful here. Being gay or lesbian is much more widely accepted than being bi. Even within the gay community you can face a lot of derision for being bi. A lot of straight people seem think its a cop out or phase and you're just too chicken to admit you're truly gay or think you should just be able to pick the heterosexual option if you have a choice.

Quite a few members of the lgbt community also think bi people are just too chicken to stand up and be counted. Then there's the perception that bi people are promiscuous and just don't want to commit. It sucks because it can be hard to feel like you belong anywhere. People just have a harder time wrapping their heads around this and quite a few bi people don't do much to counter these stereotypes.

I would say that if you aren't out in some fashion, you might not want to claim it in your diversity question. But it's a really personal decision. You have had experiences as a bi person that have likely shaped your perspective on things even if you haven't had the full gamut of experiences. Valuing diversity is about getting different perspectives and experiences and giving others the chance to see through a different set of eyes. If you are out or decide to use being bi, then I might frame it as "being a member of the lgbtq community" rather than use the word "bi" but I tend to be very cautious.


also, we have a lgbt area on here and I can move your thread there so you can get more responses from people who've been in similar situations

I absolutely second this. I did choose to write about my orientation in some of my applications, but I very carefully avoided explicitly stating my orientation and instead stuck to things along the lines of "member of the lgbt community". The only time I explicitly identified myself as bisexual was on a particular secondary application that listed every orientation/gender identity you could possibly think of and asked you to choose the one(s) that applied.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I think its worth noting that it really depends on the app question we're referring to:

If its the personal statement, i would only include sexuality if it's relevant to your path to wanting to become a physician and is evidenced by your actions and activities.

If it's the how would you add diversity to our class question, then go ahead and put it here. Again I'd stick with lgbt rather than bi. I'm not an adcomm, but for this one I don't think you necessarily need volunteering in the lgbt community or those activities, though it helps. Even without those you're still bi and it's still impacted who you are and how you see the world. It's still impacted your decisions andfriendships, etc.

 

[Goro]

Agreed. Thanks. How about a sentence like "It is my humanity that defines me."...it sort of implies that I'm not 100% straight, but doesn't say so outright. Thanks for telling me that I might run the risk of being BBQ'd for writing about bisexuality - it might be seen as an insincere attempt to gain Diversity Points or some other such BS'ing attempt.

FTFY. Give example as proof for the bolded. This will go far more than being LGBT (although there are schools that consider LGBT as URM).

I get the sense that announcing your gender orientations in the app is important to you. Can you tell us why?

 

[LizzyM]

FTFY. Give example as proof for the bolded. This will go far more than being LGBT (although there are schools that consider LGBT as URM).

I get the sense that announcing your gender orientations in the app is important to you. Can you tell us why?

Because saying "I'm a 25 year old virgin" might not add that much diversity to the class.

 

[Mad Jack]

I have a question.

I am a bisexual male. I have never been in a relationship with anyone, male or female. I do not have any volunteering history with the LGBT community. Given all of these, how wise - or unwise - do you believe it is to mention my bisexuality in diversity secondaries? Might it be seen as a somewhat insincere move to gain Diversity Points or something like that - will it count against me in that way? I did not have many significant experiences regarding my bisexuality, other than being beaten at a summer camp in high school because a bully believed I was gay, and the minor, insignificant prejudice I sometimes encounter when I come out to my friends.

Any opinions? Include, or not?

Probably won't work for you. LGBT status tends to matter either when it had impacted your life, is a major part of your identity, is a focus of your volunteering/ECs, or you are politically active in the arena.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Because saying "I'm a 25 year old virgin" might not add that much diversity to the class.

That's kinda diversity in and of itself.

 

[LizzyM]

That's kinda diversity in and of itself.

That's ORM at some schools.

 

[Goro]

That's ORM at some schools.

 

[Medic741]

Agreed. Thanks. How about a sentence like "It is my humanity, more than my gender, socioeconomic status, or sexual orientation, that defines me."...it sort of implies that I'm not 100% straight, but doesn't say so outright. Thanks for telling me that I might run the risk of being BBQ'd for writing about bisexuality - it might be seen as an insincere attempt to gain Diversity Points or some other such BS'ing attempt.

Cringe.

 

[Medic741]

Have you been employed outside of your school/academics/research?

Having soft skills acquired in the non-ivory tower world can be spun really well as ‘diversity’

 

[herdofturtles]

I think its worth noting that it really depends on the app question we're referring to:

If its the personal statement, i would only include sexuality if it's relevant to your path to wanting to become a physician and is evidenced by your actions and activities.

If it's the how would you add diversity to our class question, then go ahead and put it here. Again I'd stick with lgbt rather than bi. I'm not an adcomm, but for this one I don't think you necessarily need volunteering in the lgbt community or those activities, though it helps. Even without those you're still bi and it's still impacted who you are and how you see the world. It's still impacted your decisions andfriendships, etc.

there are schools that consider LGBT as URM

Probably won't work for you. LGBT status tends to matter either when it had impacted your life, is a major part of your identity, is a focus of your volunteering/ECs, or you are politically active in the arena.

I kind of agree with all of these viewpoints. If being bisexual hasn't had a major impact or been a focus of volunteering, I wouldn't emphasize it too much. However, in the diversity essay, I think it's perfectly fine to briefly mention it - ie write a sentence or two about how it adds diversity of experience/thought to your class - and then go on to talk more in depth about something else that is more personal to you.

A good compromise may be to talk about it in some apps and not others. As Goro mentioned, some schools are extra LGBT-friendly. You might mention it in your diversity essay for these schools, where perhaps it's less likely to be negatively judged, and leave it out of your essays for other schools.

 

[DuraFlame]

It is not the personal statement - it is the "how would you add diversity to our class" question. What effect would writing a sentence or two about this have - would it help me? Hurt me? I did not mean to make it the focus of my essay by any means - that is being saved for how moving around every couple of years altered my perspective and gave me unique skills - such as learning how to be a part of communities, how to adapt, adjust, and overcome. And how to pack the godawful quantities of stuff that we had into rented moving trucks.

 

[DuraFlame]

FTFY. Give example as proof for the bolded. This will go far more than being LGBT (although there are schools that consider LGBT as URM).

I get the sense that announcing your gender orientations in the app is important to you. Can you tell us why?

Hmm. I've always held somewhat-strong convictions regarding LGBT rights and whatnot. And if not me, who - if not now, when?

 

[DuraFlame]

Cringe.

Garbage tier sentence? Schlockmeistery, and full of saccharine junk?

 

[DuraFlame]

@Goro: write about it? Don't write about it? I'm getting a lot of conflicting answers here - even from you, and the responses you like!

 

[RNtoMD87]

Man the irony of homosexuals putting down on bisexuals. Its so thick you can cut it with a knife.

 

[Goro]

@Goro: write about it? Don't write about it? I'm getting a lot of conflicting answers here - even from you, and the responses you like!

Mention in secondary for diversity; omit for PS is my advice.

Man the irony of homosexuals putting down on bisexuals. Its so thick you can cut it with a knife.

You should see my gay friends eye roll on this topic.

 

[Goro]

Hmm. I've always held somewhat-strong convictions regarding LGBT rights and whatnot. And if not me, who - if not now, when?

Words are easy, doing is harder. Give evidence from your ECs that you have converted your convictions into actions. Walk the walk, not merely talk the talk.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Anyone who puts much emphasis on their sexuality whatever it may be really makes me wonder how diverse their life can be that it is what stands out about them. I don't care what color your skin is, what your sexual preference is, etc. What do you know? What are you talented at? What makes you able to contribute to society?

Now standing up for LGBT people, is different. Because anyone who stands up for others, no matter what the reason is noble in my opinion.

 

[DuraFlame]

@Goro Thanks for clarifying that! I didn't think it was important enough to mention in the personal statement. @LizzyM what's your take on mentioning it in the diversity secondary - a sentence or two, before talking about how all that moving gave me skills and perspectives and so forth?

 

[LizzyM]

@Goro Thanks for clarifying that! I didn't think it was important enough to mention in the personal statement. @LizzyM what's your take on mentioning it in the diversity secondary - a sentence or two, before talking about how all that moving gave me skills and perspectives and so forth?

I love the idea of using frequent relocations in a diversity secondary.

 

[DuraFlame]

I love the idea of using frequent relocations in a diversity secondary.

@LizzyM, is your answer a way of suggesting a course of action without potentially being undiplomatic or insensitive? Do you agree with Goro's advice, or do you think it should be left out altogether?

 

[LizzyM]

I love the idea of using frequent relocations in a diversity secondary.

I meant this just as I said it. I would like to read a diversity essay that addressed what you've learned and how you stand out in the crowd based on your frequent relocations as a kid. I think that it would set you apart and I think that there are valuable lessons to be learned.

What I understood Goro to mean when he wrote

Words are easy, doing is harder. Give evidence from your ECs that you have converted your convictions into actions. Walk the walk, not merely talk the talk.

I understood this to be in response to the idea of using your bisexuality as a topic for the diversity essay. What I took away from that remark is that just saying that you believe in equality or health care access or health education etc for members of the LBGTQI community is not enough but that you have in some way engaged in volunteerism with that community if you want to gain any credibility to your words.

 

[Goro]

I meant this just as I said it. I would like to read a diversity essay that addressed what you've learned and how you stand out in the crowd based on your frequent relocations as a kid. I think that it would set you apart and I think that there are valuable lessons to be learned.

What I understood Goro to mean when he wrote


I understood this to be in response to the idea of using your bisexuality as a topic for the diversity essay. What I took away from that remark is that just saying that you believe in equality or health care access or health education etc for members of the LBGTQI community is not enough but that you have in some way engaged in volunteerism with that community if you want to gain any credibility to your words.

My learned colleague understand exactly what I meant! Not for nothing I call her the "Divine Miss M"

To follow up, it's bad enough that too many applicants suddenly discover their Native American or Hispanic heritage only upon application to medical school. As such, Adcoms are leery of people who claim diversity by being part of a group with no evidence of having anything to do with said group.

Thus, my fear is that unethical applicants will suddenly start outing themselves in PS;'s or secondaries, in order to gain a perceived advantage in the app process, as some schools consider LGBT as URM..

Asking for evidence of commitment to one community, whatever that is, shows the "doing" part that we want.

 

[whatbout2morrow]

From my understanding, among many other things, diversity is about what you bring to the conversation. We still live in an age where open lgbtq folks face many kinds of discrimination (including doctors refusing to treat them because they "don't agree with their lifestyle") and are subject to hate crimes as a result of expressing themselves. Hence, their human experience is fundamentally different from the majority. The experiences of LGBTQ folks in my class offered unique perspectives in many topics/discussions, and interactions across diverse groups help promote a culture of respect. For these reasons, someone who is more vocal about their orientation, volunteers for LGBTQ causes, etc may be seen as having the potential to contribute more to the diversity of a med school class than someone who is mostly private about it.

 

[DuraFlame]

Thank you for your clarity, @Goro. It is not good to be potentially viewed as an insincere applicant attempting to game the system, like the applicants that suddenly discover their Native American heritage on application day!

To add to this: my situation is in essence the same as that of a Native American applicant - with no community involvement, who does not live on a reservation - wanting to write about his Native heritage. Our hero might be viewed favorably...or he might be viewed less than kindly by people thinking he's hunting for Diversity Points™ and seeking to impress adcoms by demonstrating proficiency in the use of bovine-derived organic fertilizer.

Besides, the nays have it, twenty-three to five against inclusion as of 6:51 Pacific time, August 17, 2018.