Bitcoin... currency of the future or fraud/scam/bubble?

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okayplayer said:
Good luck to you though, dude. Honestly. I’m just putting my bet on VTSAX. You’re putting yours on cryptocurrency. Shoot me a message in 20 years and we will see who is ahead (hopefully both of us).
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ok ok my bad for being a d**k. Im pretty diversified too, VTSAX is great, VOO too. Gluck to you!
 
GaseousClay said:
Foolish and lazy analogies to tulip mania. Tulips can be grown and farmed easily nothing even comparable to btc. Also this mania that you compare it to lasted a very short period of time. Bitcoin has been around since 2009. Nice try.
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I find it interesting that the bitcoin threads only come out when it rises in price.

When the apocalypse hits, strings of 1s and 0s will be useless when we don't have electricity
 
As someone who has put some money into a few major cryptos, I believe in the tech behind blockchain and potential applications. The issue is there are so many coins/protocols and it seems likely that most will fall to zero in value and many are scams.
 
Wait until the 1st nation state backs their worthless fiat (all currency) with bitcoin and you see 1-10 million dollar for one bitcoin. It’s a long game and I have time. If you study economics, game theory and hard money, you’ll become a believer like me. The volatility in this nascent market is expected. Wait till we see the next bull run. Personally I’m patiently waiting for the bullrun after that.
 
Direct Laryngoscopy said:
Wait until the 1st nation state backs their worthless fiat (all currency) with bitcoin and you see 1-10 million dollar for one bitcoin. It’s a long game and I have time. If you study economics, game theory and hard money, you’ll become a believer like me. The volatility in this nascent market is expected. Wait till we see the next bull run. Personally I’m patiently waiting for the bullrun after that.
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Is this a paragraph from the Onion, or....
 
Direct Laryngoscopy said:
Wait until the 1st nation state backs their worthless fiat (all currency) with bitcoin and you see 1-10 million dollar for one bitcoin. It’s a long game and I have time. If you study economics, game theory and hard money, you’ll become a believer like me. The volatility in this nascent market is expected. Wait till we see the next bull run. Personally I’m patiently waiting for the bullrun after that.
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I'd stick to medicine.
 
I hope you speculators make a ton of money. I think the odds are against you, the longer you stay in this game. And a game it is.

I just wish more of you would acknowledge that it's just a zero-sum gambling game, and that every real dollar of profit extracted from the process represents someone else's gambling loss. This isn't investing; there's no value created or generated; its existence or use doesn't enable or facilitate growth in any value-generating industry (save perhaps certain black markets). I hope you win your game, the same way I hope my friends who are poker players win.

Beyond that, I hate Bitcoin. Despise it, actually. It has no redeeming value, even philosophically; the libertarian in me would like truly anonymous e-currency but Bitcoin is neither. The math is cool but this thought experiment ceased being interesting except as a study of social pathology a long time ago.

It's harmful, considering the resources wasted to "mine" it. Not since the pyramids were built has so much human time and capital been squandered in pointless work - at least the pyramids are neat to look at and are a monument to a great culture and civilization.

The people who believe in it as some kind of useful spendable currency are the same kind of people who believe voting over the internet is or ever will be a good idea - excessively infatuated with technology to the point that actual utility and risk are afterthoughts.

If it is ever adopted by some non 2-bit-3rd-world-bananaland kleptocracy "nation" it'll lose what tiny bit of state-free credibility it enjoys now.

Bitcoin and its wannabe cousins have been a net drain on the real wealth of the world and that is not going to change.
 
I won’t debate anyone here on the merits of this emerging asset of hard money (I’m not going to change anyone’s mind), but bitcoin is entering the store of value stage and development is occurring fast. Yes we still at the speculation stage (and willing to take the risk) and i will be rewarded handsomely in the future if BTC becomes more adopted. I will tell you big institutions are in the game and are mining, accumulating, getting exposure and working on rolling out products ro to retail.

I anticipate a snowball effect and the momentum till take this asset to heights we’ve never seen. But hey I can’t predict the future, I’m just preparing for it [emoji4]
 
Don't fool yourself thinking gold has its current price per ounce because of its real world uses. It is just as speculative as bitcoin. Massive percentage of the worlds gold is just sitting around as a store of value. In the end its just a shiny rock that is harder to use as a medium of exchange and relies on a 3rd party to safely hold/store it. That being said I don't think investing in gold is dumb but neither is investing in bitcoin.
 
The portability of BTC (gosh I’m getting sucked in to the convo [emoji30]) is just one of the benefits. We take advantage of the security of our nation. But right now you can cross borders with your net worth in your brain. No need to lug gold, tape cash to your body, or anything else. Don’t even have to have your ledger nano or other hard wallet. Remember your key words cross the border and you’ve just moved all your money. One world currency is here.

As far as Silk Road the most popular currency for drugs and money laundering is the good ole US dollar. If someone wants to do something nefarious, they will find a way to do it. Currently all the transactions are on the blockchain and chainanalysis companies exist, but with coin joins, you’ll be able to have total fungibility and your privacy. The future is here and quite exciting.
 
Direct Laryngoscopy said:
The portability of BTC (gosh I’m getting sucked in to the convo [emoji30]) is just one of the benefits. We take advantage of the security of our nation. But right now you can cross borders with your net worth in your brain. No need to lug gold, tape cash to your body, or anything else. Don’t even have to have your ledger nano or other hard wallet. Remember your key words cross the border and you’ve just moved all your money. One world currency is here.

As far as Silk Road the most popular currency for drugs and money laundering is the good ole US dollar. If someone wants to do something nefarious, they will find a way to do it. Currently all the transactions are on the blockchain and chainanalysis companies exist, but with coin joins, you’ll be able to have total fungibility and your privacy. The future is here and quite exciting.
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There is no privacy in the 21st century, just the illusion of it.

Also, to paraphrase your words: steal other people's keywords, don't even have to cross the border, and you've just moved all their money.

I honestly don't give a crap about anybody's opinions, until they have actually invested a serious sum in something (at least $100K). The best American saying is: put your money where your mouth is.
 
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In countries like Venezuela, Zimbabwe, etc who do not have stable governments to support a stable currency, bitcoin is making life easier and better. It has already found viable uses. Just because it had bubble (or several) doesnt mean it isnt a useful technology.

Plus, Lambos on the moon!

Having this thread reappear means we are about to see another run!

Yay, FOMO!
 
Deanmonster said:
In countries like Venezuela, Zimbabwe, etc who do not have stable governments to support a stable currency, bitcoin is making life easier and better. It has already found viable uses. Just because it had bubble (or several) doesnt mean it isnt a useful technology.

Plus, Lambos on the moon!

Having this thread reappear means we are about to see another run!

Yay, FOMO!
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acknowledging that block chain technology has usefulness does not mean that bitcoin has any real value
 
BTC is so fickle... I put 1K into it a few months ago as an alternate way to pay for online goods given a few sites where I buy things use BTC. I forgot about it...log back in today and it's worth $3100, lol. Makes me wish I had bought 10K. Of course, I realize that the minute I purchase more of them, the value will plummet and I'd probably lose all my money.
 
Bitcoin is what it is.

Personally, after going from top to bottom to top again Bitcoin is most likely gold. Ive invested/speculated the money, read the books and have had/having my fun.

I got my first taste in October 2017. I made a little, lost a lot and have now gained it back. Overall, its probably been similar to being in the market just lower lows and higher highs. Ive put money in alts and put money in bitcoin. I cannot predict the future but I am sure that a few alts will be the FANGs of 2030. Imho Bitcoin is the only sure thing the same way gold is a sure thing in the long run. Its a store a value. There are a few real world uses of gold but its real value is in its store a value. People mine it, people buy it, people hope its worth more than when they bought it.

I bought bitcoin at 15k and I bought bitcoin at 3.5k. Finally sold some at 10.5k. People invest in "mining" bitcoin and wont give it up for less than they spent trying to get it. Similar to gold. Bitcoin will always be worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it and I believe that will be something. It wont be a way to spend and send money as its too slow and annoying to get but so is gold. Anyways my 2 cents.
 
FFP said:

Only 3% Of Millionaires Own Bitcoin | The Conservative Income Investor

On Twitter right now, the hashtag “BitcoinIsBack” is trending as the price of the cryptocurrency has now exceeded $11,000 per Bitcoin. When the price fell from $19,000 to the $3,000 range between December 2017 and December 2018, I was hopeful that this speculative folly would be tossed into the...
theconservativeincomeinvestor.com
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Interesting read. I agree bitcoin is not an investment in a conventional sense that it generates a fixed return or pays dividends but like stock in a corporation it provides "rights" to participate in a transaction network which could replace the current inefficient wealth transfer systems in place. the IRS and other governments can do what they want but tracking custody of bitcoin wallets is logistically challenging...I would think the rich would jump on board any chance to find a wealth transfer loophole.
 
caveat87 said:
Interesting read. I agree bitcoin is not an investment in a conventional sense that it generates a fixed return or pays dividends but like stock in a corporation it provides "rights" to participate in a transaction network which could replace the current inefficient wealth transfer systems in place. the IRS and other governments can do what they want but tracking custody of bitcoin wallets is logistically challenging...I would think the rich would jump on board any chance to find a wealth transfer loophole.
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If history is ANY guide and more than a very small number of yuppies actually engage in legit BTC investments, expect the IRS to fully come knocking for its slice when you cash out.
 
caveat87 said:
the IRS and other governments can do what they want
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Aye, there's the rub

What the bitcoin faithful never seem to get is that if bitcoin somehow becomes useful as a medium of trade, those governments aren't just going to passively watch it. There's all manner of regulation and taxes and laws that can impact its use, so long as there are exchanges for trading bitcoins for other currencies.

It's just incredibly naive to think this can't happen, because "internet" and "math" and "3673636 bit cryptologically secure".

The fiat dollar isn't backed by gold, but it's backed by a stable government, the largest economy in the world, and a whole lotta guns and nuclear weapons.

Clever speculators extracting wealth from foolish speculators won't change any of that.
 
I see crypto as a good way to get accused of tax evasion, if capital gains are not declared. There is no reason cryptocurrencies would be exempt of any rules that apply to investments in general. There is no wealth transfer "loophole", just tax evasion. Those who need loopholes should use an estate lawyer.
 
FFP said:
I see crypto as a good way to get accused of tax evasion, if capital gains are not declared. There is no reason cryptocurrencies would be exempt of any rules that apply to investments in general. There is no wealth transfer "loophole", just tax evasion. Those who need loopholes should use an estate lawyer.
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Yes you can get accused if you evade taxes just like evading taxes from any capital gains you make. All these exchanges have your transaction history and when you are audited you will be screwed just like everyone else. I have paid 2 years worth of long term and short term capital gains based on my transactions on coinbase and binance.
 
lakersbaby said:
Yes you can get accused if you evade taxes just like evading taxes from any capital gains you make. All these exchanges have your transaction history and when you are audited you will be screwed just like everyone else. I have paid 2 years worth of long term and short term capital gains based on my transactions on coinbase and binance.
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I have a friend of a friend that made 7 figure profit playing around with bitcoin from years ago and actually moved to Puerto Rico to avoid the federal taxes on it.
 
Look at what Ecuador's currency is now. ($).
 
Mman said:
I have a friend of a friend that made 7 figure profit playing around with bitcoin from years ago and actually moved to Puerto Rico to avoid the federal taxes on it.
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Puerto Ricans don’t pay federal taxes?
 
Mman said:
not on capital gains
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Yes on stuff outside of Puerto Rico. Get ready to pay up.

Seriously, this thread is actually pretty funny. If you think this is some magic bullet or a great way to launder your cash, you’re in for a rude awakening. The government can and will get its share. Hate hearing that? Then vote accordingly.

At least hide it in the Caymans like a normal monster not in a US territory! Maybe a bank there will take your flash drive with your mountains of bitcoin and stash it.
 
AdmiralChz said:
Yes on stuff outside of Puerto Rico. Get ready to pay up.

Seriously, this thread is actually pretty funny. If you think this is some magic bullet or a great way to launder your cash, you’re in for a rude awakening. The government can and will get its share. Hate hearing that? Then vote accordingly.

At least hide it in the Caymans like a normal monster not in a US territory! Maybe a bank there will take your flash drive with your mountains of bitcoin and stash it.
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a capital gain doesn't become a capital gain until you make a sale. If you are a resident of Puerto Rico for the capital gain, that is money earned in Puerto Rico. It's already been there and done that and 2018 tax return not audited. He knows several others that made a ton in bitcoin that also were advised by attorneys to move to Puerto Rico for that very reason. There are hundreds of articles about it.
 
I heard a TED talk where the guy was arguing that bitcoin prices were a complete scam and being driven by russian mobsters that take bitcoin as payment for ransomware attacks. When there was a surge in attacks, shortly after they'd pump up the price of the bitcoin and unload it for a bigger profit. He had graphs overlaying the price of bitcoin along with notations about the biggest ransomware attacks and it was definitely an intriguing idea.
 
pre med 2014 said:
I'm going to start buying one a month for the next year. Eventually each bitcoin is going to be worth $10,000 and stabilize at around that value is my prediction.

At $180 per coin It is still optimal time to cash in on the next big surge, we are reaching the point where mining new bitcoins will become impossible. In a year or so we'll see a huge rise in value once no new bitcoins can mined because the cost of mining one new coin will be astronomical.
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WOW, VERY NICE PREDICTION
 
Wonder if anyone hit it big and “deferred” medical school/medical training/career in medicine
 
Sadly I thought I hit it big in 2017 when my one $300 BTC went to almost 20k. I tried to push my luck by converting it all to various alt ****coins that have all but plummeted to zero.

At least i have my TSLA and ZM stocks that are making me happy. Now to figure out how to ruin these gains.
 
I can see another washout like we had in March, when the equities market has its blow off top (I think the $SPX could hit 3700-4000). That would be a great time BTC accumulation for me (I have some equities I’ve been researching as well). I think deflationary forces will crater all the markets and thereafter see the inflationary effects of all this money printing. I Could be wrong, but I’m ready.

I would recommend “The price of tomorrow” by Jeff Booth really quick, succinct read about the deflationary forces of technology.
 
pre med 2014 said:
I'm going to start buying one a month for the next year. Eventually each bitcoin is going to be worth $10,000 and stabilize at around that value is my prediction.

At $180 per coin It is still optimal time to cash in on the next big surge, we are reaching the point where mining new bitcoins will become impossible. In a year or so we'll see a huge rise in value once no new bitcoins can mined because the cost of mining one new coin will be astronomical.
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wow. hope this poster from 2013 has not sold their coins yet. He/she was buying one coin a month at $180 and now almost hitting $20k a coin...
 
pgg said:
I'm a nerd so I find the protocols and math/cryptography interesting. Although completely anonymous currency holds some appeal to the libertarian in me, I think idle observation is the closest I'll get to it.

While Bitcoin itself looks secure, the exchanges that permit purchase/sale in other currencies have had some security issues. Recent valuation looks bubbly from a distance.

I wouldn't put any money into it, either by converting $ to bitcoins or by mining. At this point only the people running custom dedicated hardware have a hope of coming out ahead by mining.


Time will tell, but it reminds me a lot of the Freenet project. Very interesting. Laudable goals. Never widely adopted for anything, and ultimately used for more shady purposes than not.
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hopefully no one listened to this guy. he said not to buy in 2013. you'd only be up 67,641.94%...
that too in a market with massive liquidity now and be able to borrow against that value as well. With price expected to increase even further.
 
sevo00 said:
hopefully no one listened to this guy. he said not to buy in 2013. you'd only be up 67,641.94%...
that too in a market with massive liquidity now and be able to borrow against that value as well. With price expected to increase even further.
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hahaha I'm sure he is a happy doctor seeing 30 patients a day and multi hour posting on SDN with his 20K posts lol
 
sevo00 said:
hopefully no one listened to this guy. he said not to buy in 2013. you'd only be up 67,641.94%...
that too in a market with massive liquidity now and be able to borrow against that value as well. With price expected to increase even further.
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If only ....

I'd bought Bitcoin at $3 (I'd probably have sold at $7)
Or Apple stock in 1995 ....
Or Amazon stock in ....

Oh well.


stillpremed said:
hahaha I'm sure he is a happy doctor seeing 30 patients a day and multi hour posting on SDN with his 20K posts lol
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If I had to see 30 patients in a clinic every day I'd put a gun in my mouth. I'm an anesthesiologist, edging toward early retirement. Life is good.
 
stillpremed said:
hahaha I'm sure he is a happy doctor seeing 30 patients a day and multi hour posting on SDN with his 20K posts lol
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Bump this in 5 years when the price is 400-500k. Even then not everyone will be on board. As a bonus tesla will be the largest MC stock and i hope i have my own robot troll posting for me 😉
 
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finalpsychyear said:
Bump this in 5 years when the price is 400-500k. Even then not everyone will be on board. As a bonus tesla will be the largest MC stock and i hope i have my own robot posting for me.
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For anyone who has a 5 year old child or less, 1 BTC will comfortably pay for their entire undergraduate private school experience (and private grad school if they so choose that route). Wild to think about.

The question for me anyway, then becomes “do I tell them about it or have them take out loans and grind and I pay it off for them when they graduate?”
 
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