Bitcoin... currency of the future or fraud/scam/bubble?

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Bitcoin is a speculation not an investment.

Its not a currency (may be at some point)..requires stability in value in order to be used as a transactional medium

Sone speculations do extremely well, some dont.

Thats all
 
UscGhost said:
Bitcoin is a speculation not an investment.

Its not a currency (may be at some point)..requires stability in value in order to be used as a transactional medium

Sone speculations do extremely well, some dont.

Thats all
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This is the perfect example of the argument made by someone who has not made any/much money on bitcoin, a tale as old as time
 
sevo00 said:
It’s the equivalent of someone thousands of years ago saying Gold is not an investment
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Of course it's an investment. Semantics over whether it's speculation or some kind of zero-sum currency trading game hardly matter; you bought some and made some money. Congrats. How well it will do from here out is uncertain - the notion that its market cap will exceed that of gold seems optimistic to me, but maybe you're right.

It's odd. You don't see people who bought Amazon or Apple or Nvidia stock and made truckloads of money on them prancing about, talking about their world-changing effects and pretending that people who didn't buy those stocks are going to be left behind, luddites condemned to the dustbin of history.

But you bitcoiners (and TSLA believers) are absolutely insufferable. It's as if you think everyone else hasn't also made money hand over fist investing in, well, just about anything, over the last 15-20 years. These have been good years for everyone.

Enjoy your profits. I wish you luck in making more. There's no need to be a **** about it.
 
stillpremed said:
This is the perfect example of the argument made by someone who has not made any/much money on bitcoin, a tale as old as time
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Buying 100k in Amazon stock is investing. You are buying part of a business, with an established business plan, assets, cash flow, structure..with an expectation of appreciation and gains

Buying 100k in bitcoin is speculation. There is no well established business uses, business plan, cash flow, structure or governance. You are speculating that the price will go up because the price went up before.

Gold was a currency for thousands of years. Has industrial as well as cultural and personal uses.

Whether you make money on any specific investment or not is entirely irrelevant to the discussion of whether its an investment or a speculation
 
UscGhost said:
Buying 100k in Amazon stock is investing. You are buying part of a business, with an established business plan, assets, cash flow, structure..with an expectation of appreciation and gains

Buying 100k in bitcoin is speculation. There is no well established business uses, business plan, cash flow, structure or governance. You are speculating that the price will go up because the price went up before.

Gold was a currency for thousands of years. Has industrial as well as cultural and personal uses.

Whether you make money on any specific investment or not is entirely irrelevant to the discussion of whether its an investment or a speculation
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It’s a speculative investment
 
It's a way to make more USD than your peers who are stuck on defining what is an investment and what is speculation
 
stillpremed said:
It's a way to make more USD than your peers who are stuck on defining what is an investment and what is speculation.
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Right or wrong, you are way too sure of yourself. At some point whether it's Bitcoin or something else you'll learn nothing is a sure thing. The investment graveyard is littered with young people like yourself saying the same thing during the dot com era as well as many others times in history.
 
We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes said:
Right or wrong, you are way too sure of yourself. At some point whether it's Bitcoin or something else you'll learn nothing is a sure thing. The investment graveyard is littered with young people like yourself saying the same thing during the dot com era as well as many others times in history.
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Im cocksure, damn straight. Gotta have conviction and no gonadopenia in this game xoxo
 
Can’t believe the original thread was 2013. I hope Moscow is long retired by now with their future thinking with bitcoin.

Lots of should have could have back than.

It was on my radar late 2014. Except our private anesthesia contract was under fire by Sheridan trying to steal the contract and my kids were toddlers/pre k back than on single income and the job market was getting very tight in Florida as group after grouo (it seemed every 2 months was selling or loosing contracts). Even mangar of the infamous Tampa area snooped and tried to negotiate with the hospital.
 
stillpremed said:
Im cocksure, damn straight. Gotta have conviction and no gonadopenia in this game xoxo
Click to expand...

We are so early. I get no one is going to put money into something based on some internet rando but the point is to be aware and do your own in depth research. The ultinate payoff is being able to retire a few years earlier than if you just stick to VOO so 55 instead of 60 if someone was doing a 3-5% allocation and just starting to get a position.

Regardless, most on here are in the 400-500+ range and investing most of their careers so even if they keep doing what they are doing they get to their finish line so i get there point as well not to mess with whats been a great bull run for them over the last 10-15 years.

But based on the title of this thread this asset is now a 2 trill MC, us pres and vp and treasury sec are pro along with many in congress and middle east soverign funds allocating. The odds of this being a scam/bubble is minimal at this point.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
Eh, like anything else it gets pretty easy with experience.
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To each their own. 🙂

My brother is an ER doc and I can't understand how he stays sane.

He can't understand how I don't die of boredom listening to beeps and the narcissistic drone of surgeons all day.
 
stillpremed said:
Im cocksure, damn straight. Gotta have conviction and no gonadopenia in this game xoxo
Click to expand...
The great thing about being young with a high income is that you can afford to go after some higher risk investments, even if you don't need to. If it doesn't work out, still plenty of time to recover. If it does ... maybe there are riches to be had. Good luck. 🙂
 
We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes said:
Right or wrong, you are way too sure of yourself. At some point whether it's Bitcoin or something else you'll learn nothing is a sure thing. The investment graveyard is littered with young people like yourself saying the same thing during the dot com era as well as many others times in history.
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It’s been out since 2007. If it was a scam we would know by now
 
finalpsychyear said:
We are so early. I get no one is going to put money into something based on some internet rando but the point is to be aware and do your own in depth research. The ultinate payoff is being able to retire a few years earlier than if you just stick to VOO so 55 instead of 60 if someone was doing a 3-5% allocation and just starting to get a position.

Regardless, most on here are in the 400-500+ range and investing most of their careers so even if they keep doing what they are doing they get to their finish line so i get there point as well not to mess with whats been a great bull run for them over the last 10-15 years.

But based on the title of this thread this asset is now a 2 trill MC, us pres and vp and treasury sec are pro along with many in congress and middle east soverign funds allocating. The odds of this being a scam/bubble is minimal at this point.
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Yup. Do you want to sacrifice 2 years of income for a potential 5-20 year earlier retirement (if you so choose to retire)? If not thats cool. If so, more power to you. That's what I ask myself all the time and the answer is always yes 100 times out of 100.

Freedom is time in the form of health + financial independence. Health is no guarantee but you can tilt the odds in your favor with FI.

The tulip mania and beanie baby craze analogies are dead on arrival with BTC going from 0 market cap to 2T market cap over 16 years.
 
pgg said:
To each their own. 🙂

My brother is an ER doc and I can't understand how he stays sane.

He can't understand how I don't die of boredom listening to beeps and the narcissistic drone of surgeons all day.
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The boredom I could handle, but y'all are kinda like OB: when **** hits the fan it can do so extremely quickly. I want no part of that.
 
stillpremed said:
Yup. Do you want to sacrifice 2 years of income for a potential 5-20 year earlier retirement (if you so choose to retire)? If not thats cool. If so, more power to you. That's what I ask myself all the time and the answer is always yes 100 times out of 100.

Freedom is time in the form of health + financial independence. Health is no guarantee but you can tilt the odds in your favor with FI.

The tulip mania and beanie baby craze analogies are dead on arrival with BTC going from 0 market cap to 2T market cap over 16 years.
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Plenty of ways to get high returns with high risk without investing in something that has no basis for its value.

Bitcoin (as a technology/social thing) is cool, I have been following it since early days (back when you could CPU mine it!). I’ve made $xxx,xxx with bitcoin, even though if I had miraculously held until today all my btc it would be probably low 8-figures. Thing is 1: virtually everyone sells. Taking profits is a normal and good thing. 2: this is not remotely early.

If you think you’re early, sorry to let you know, this is late. Hell, you weren’t early when it was being mentioned in nytimes and cnn etc. now maybe btc goes to 11 quadrillion, its entirely arbitrary after all, but if you’re buying btc now you’re about as “early” as someone buying Nvidia. Maybe you’ll make $, not saying you won’t, but this isn’t some obscure early stage thing. The president has mentioned bitcoin in nationally televised addresses. What does “late” look like to you? Because bitcoin is inherently unusable as an actual globally used currency as the transaction limit is insufficient for the state of texas alone, there isn’t much else to be accomplished other than everyone knows about it.
 
<(^_^)> said:
Plenty of ways to get high returns with high risk without investing in something that has no basis for its value.

Bitcoin (as a technology/social thing) is cool, I have been following it since early days (back when you could CPU mine it!). I’ve made $xxx,xxx with bitcoin, even though if I had miraculously held until today all my btc it would be probably low 8-figures. Thing is 1: virtually everyone sells. Taking profits is a normal and good thing. 2: this is not remotely early.

If you think you’re early, sorry to let you know, this is late. Hell, you weren’t early when it was being mentioned in nytimes and cnn etc. now maybe btc goes to 11 quadrillion, its entirely arbitrary after all, but if you’re buying btc now you’re about as “early” as someone buying Nvidia. Maybe you’ll make $, not saying you won’t, but this isn’t some obscure early stage thing. The president has mentioned bitcoin in nationally televised addresses. What does “late” look like to you? Because bitcoin is inherently unusable as an actual globally used currency as the transaction limit is insufficient for the state of texas alone, there isn’t much else to be accomplished other than everyone knows about it.
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s and p 500 will near 7k in the next 12 mo. Most on here will be thrilled since they are heavy in VOO. If we near 7k in the S&P then btc will likely be near 200 and that crowd will be also be thrilled. Lets see how it plays out.
 
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I haven't been in bitcoin since the beginning but have owned it now for multiple years. All I would add to this thread is if you compare the costs of things in bitcoin terms; over the years things are getting cheaper vs the usd. Bitcoin can fail as a currency and just be a store of value and still go much higher in USD terms. It doesn't need to be a currency that's where you guys are mistaken. It also has 24/7 liquidity. That is something your can't say for you stock portfolio.
 
Scotty_G said:
I haven't been in bitcoin since the beginning but have owned it now for multiple years. All I would add to this thread is if you compare the costs of things in bitcoin terms; over the years things are getting cheaper vs the usd. Bitcoin can fail as a currency and just be a store of value and still go much higher in USD terms. It doesn't need to be a currency that's where you guys are mistaken. It also has 24/7 liquidity. That is something your can't say for you stock portfolio.
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Why do I need my stock portfolio to have 24/7 liquidity? If someone breaks into my house at gunpoint will I need to be able to liquidate it to pay them to go away? If I wake up at 3 am and need to buy a motorcycle on eBay?
 
chessknt said:
Why do I need my stock portfolio to have 24/7 liquidity? If someone breaks into my house at gunpoint will I need to be able to liquidate it to pay them to go away? If I wake up at 3 am and need to buy a motorcycle on eBay?
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Well you might need to conduct an international real estate transaction during a 20-minute window at 2 AM on a Sunday, and it needs to be a "smart" contract, so the traditional banking system and escrow process is obviously just totally inadequate and obsolete. Luddite.
 
pgg said:
Well you might need to conduct an international real estate transaction during a 20-minute window at 2 AM on a Sunday, and it needs to be a "smart" contract, so the traditional banking system and escrow process is obviously just totally inadequate and obsolete. Luddite.
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are you really defending the traditional escrow process? that is the most absolute dog**** proces in the world and you know it. yeah let me go ahead and pay this random company 5 figures to "hold" my money as a neutral third party. with smart contract you totally elimate this expensive middle man and as a result real estate itself will get cheaper. wow i really cant belive there are people defendingescrow companies lmao. most unnecessary entity there is. right there with real estate agents and car salesmen
 
these are the same people who prob thought the invention of the internet was a fad and that email will never replace fax machine
 
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sevo00 said:
are you really defending the traditional escrow process? that is the most absolute dog**** proces in the world and you know it. yeah let me go ahead and pay this random company 5 figures to "hold" my money as a neutral third party. with smart contract you totally elimate this expensive middle man and as a result real estate itself will get cheaper. wow i really cant belive there are people defendingescrow companies lmao. most unnecessary entity there is. right there with real estate agents and car salesmen
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lol
 
sevo00 said:
these are the same people who prob thought the invention of the internet was a fad and that email will never replace fax machine
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Please explain to us why having your entire net worth in immediate liquid form at all times is necessary for the general population. It sounds dangerous to me because at least if I get robbed the thief can't reasonably expect to extract my entire savings in an irreversible transaction. Very different from being able to communicate all over the world instantly which is actually useful.
 
chessknt said:
Please explain to us why having your entire net worth in immediate liquid form at all times is necessary for the general population. It sounds dangerous to me because at least if I get robbed the thief can't reasonably expect to extract my entire savings in an irreversible transaction. Very different from being able to communicate all over the world instantly which is actually useful.
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I have no idea what you’re talking about. My bitcoin is all stored in a cold wallet in a safe lock box in the bank. Please atleast get a basic understanding of bitcoin before saying things that don’t even make sense. What I was referring to in the escrow example was smart contracts (ethereum etc.)
 
sevo00 said:
I have no idea what you’re talking about. My bitcoin is all stored in a cold wallet in a safe lock box in the bank. Please atleast get a basic understanding of bitcoin before saying things that don’t even make sense. What I was referring to in the escrow example was smart contracts (ethereum etc.)
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How is that different than waiting for the ****ing stock market to be open in the morning then? You can't access that 24/7 bro.
 
Scotty_G said:
I haven't been in bitcoin since the beginning but have owned it now for multiple years. All I would add to this thread is if you compare the costs of things in bitcoin terms; over the years things are getting cheaper vs the usd. Bitcoin can fail as a currency and just be a store of value and still go much higher in USD terms. It doesn't need to be a currency that's where you guys are mistaken. It also has 24/7 liquidity. That is something your can't say for you stock portfolio.
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But but but but its not a company and there's no cash flow man!!!
 
Bitcoin will continue to go up as long as government keeps debasing the currency. If they choose to do some of the "right" things bitcoin will go down in value. You cannot stop peer to peer. But yes sending a million dollars via the "bitcoin network" to a person across the world permisionless and cheaper than a wire is something useful I would say :0 You can verify on chain as well. Bitcoin as an investment is different than bitcoin the network and innovation. O and the boomers in here who want the banks to custody it for them will be able to. Also you can buy via the ETF's which will eventually be converted to in-kind redemption.
 
sevo00 said:
I have no idea what you’re talking about. My bitcoin is all stored in a cold wallet in a safe lock box in the bank. Please atleast get a basic understanding of bitcoin before saying things that don’t even make sense. What I was referring to in the escrow example was smart contracts (ethereum etc.)
Click to expand...
Sounds very easy to use when you need it
 
Scotty_G said:
Bitcoin will continue to go up as long as government keeps debasing the currency. If they choose to do some of the "right" things bitcoin will go down in value. You cannot stop peer to peer. But yes sending a million dollars via the "bitcoin network" to a person across the world permisionless and cheaper than a wire is something useful I would say :0 You can verify on chain as well. Bitcoin as an investment is different than bitcoin the network and innovation. O and the boomers in here who want the banks to custody it for them will be able to. Also you can buy via the ETF's which will eventually be converted to in-kind redemption.
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Pretty niche use. And cant you basically use any mainstream crypto for that?
 
UscGhost said:
Sounds very easy to use when you need it
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See that's the thing is if you store it any other way you can get robbed irreversibly. If some rando breaks into your house they can't steal your entire stock market portfolio in an irreversible transaction at gunpoint but if you believe in the magic use case of Bitcoin they can!

So if you have millions in crypto you have to secure it in a bank vault because you want self custody, but in a safe way where you put it in the bank's custody. All so you can do large transactions at a moments notice... As long as the bank is open and you have to physically go to it of course. Also if you die or get in to an accident it is all lost forever of course... Unless you put the keys to your wallet somewhere which of course means it can again be stolen irreversibly as above by anyone that finds them. It is just vastly superior to the crappy system we have now where people can reverse fraudulent transactions and recover funds from deceased relatives.
 
chessknt said:
See that's the thing is if you store it any other way you can get robbed irreversibly. If some rando breaks into your house they can't steal your entire stock market portfolio in an irreversible transaction at gunpoint but if you believe in the magic use case of Bitcoin they can!

So if you have millions in crypto you have to secure it in a bank vault because you want self custody, but in a safe way where you put it in the bank's custody. All so you can do large transactions at a moments notice... As long as the bank is open and you have to physically go to it of course. Also if you die or get in to an accident it is all lost forever of course... Unless you put the keys to your wallet somewhere which of course means it can again be stolen irreversibly as above by anyone that finds them. It is just vastly superior to the crappy system we have now where people can reverse fraudulent transactions and recover funds from deceased relatives.
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You guys are clowns and still don’t have a basic understanding. No one is using bitcoin as currency. It’s digital gold. Do you carry your gold around and use it for transactions?
 
sevo00 said:
You guys are clowns and still don’t have a basic understanding. No one is using bitcoin as currency. It’s digital gold. Do you carry your gold around and use it for transactions?
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My wife absolutely carries our Gold around, except when she’s doing procedures I think she removes it. I do make her leave it at home when we travel internationally though.
 
HemeOncHopeful19 said:
My wife absolutely carries our Gold around, except when she’s doing procedures I think she removes it. I do make her leave it at home when we travel internationally though.
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Did you not see the second part of my question…does she use that gold for transactions?

Michael saylor has been stacking BTC for years now. Do you ever try to see him buy anything with it?
 
1752498853318.png
 
Didnt realize there was a dedicated bitcoin thread. If you dont see that bitcoin is God's money, then you dont know enough about bitcoin. There has never in history, been currency that is fully decentralized and operates on a consensus mechanism. Meaning every computer that functions as a bitcoin node has to agree to a transaction before its added to the blockchain. What does this really mean? It means that bitcoin is unstoppable, uncensorable, uninflatable, non-sovereign, and highly portable. Even gold does not tick all those boxes. Theres a saying it bitcoin that goes "everyone who buys into bitcoin gets in at the price they deserve". Meaning if you're smart to buy in early you will reap the most benefits. Bitcoin will have bull runs and drawdowns according to its 4-year halving cycle, but if you are looking for a long term investment with exceptionally high yield over the course of 10-20-30 years, bitcoin is an excellent investment. As an added plus you're buying "freedom money" that you will always have with you wherever you go and they can never take it from you. THATs what makes bitcoin essentially priceless. It has the power lift whole countries and communities out of poverty.
 
sevo00 said:
You guys are clowns and still don’t have a basic understanding. No one is using bitcoin as currency. It’s digital gold. Do you carry your gold around and use it for transactions?
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Yes, but there are new layers in the works that make bitcoin much more efficient for transacting. At that point it really will be usable currency and michael saylor will be the bank of bitcoin.
 
HemeOncHopeful19 said:
My wife absolutely carries our Gold around, except when she’s doing procedures I think she removes it. I do make her leave it at home when we travel internationally though.
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yea, cuz if you tried to take gold across borders they'd arrest you on the spot. They'd arrest you on the spot for a suitcase full of cash too. That should tell you something.
 
Scotty_G said:
Bitcoin will continue to go up as long as government keeps debasing the currency. If they choose to do some of the "right" things bitcoin will go down in value. You cannot stop peer to peer. But yes sending a million dollars via the "bitcoin network" to a person across the world permisionless and cheaper than a wire is something useful I would say :0 You can verify on chain as well. Bitcoin as an investment is different than bitcoin the network and innovation. O and the boomers in here who want the banks to custody it for them will be able to. Also you can buy via the ETF's which will eventually be converted to in-kind redemption.
Click to expand...
There is another saying in bitcoin- "not your wallet, not your bitcoin". and thats because your ETF shares can be seized or frozen. Your cold crypto wallet cant.
 
sevo00 said:
I have no idea what you’re talking about. My bitcoin is all stored in a cold wallet in a safe lock box in the bank. Please atleast get a basic understanding of bitcoin before saying things that don’t even make sense. What I was referring to in the escrow example was smart contracts (ethereum etc.)
Click to expand...
A bank lockbox is the absolute last place I'd store my wallet or seed phrase. What happens during a natural disaster? or any similar event? banks closed. how about when the fed decides to seize your assets for questionable reasons? or how about when the bank goes under and your property and funds could technically become theirs? etc etc
 
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