BLS.GOV UPDATE- PHARMACY GROWTH SLOW

[Pharmerjoe77]

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I wonder what the reason of the projected decrease in demand is -- do you guys think it's from too many new pharmacists being graduated every year, or is the demand for pharmacy-related services simply going down (in other words, the demand projection has nothing to do with the number of new graduates and would still be decreased)?

It's both. Technology, automation and increased use of mail order will decrease the demand for pharmacists. But the increased number of grads is a huge issue too. Demand for work going down, supply of workers going up =disaster. Huge unemployment, no job security, slash in wages.

 

[PAtoPharm]

So there aren't a substantial number of pharmacists that are predicted to retire in the next 10 years? Like other posters in the thread made mention of -- if the BLS numbers are accurate and you crunch the numbers, then there will be thousands of pharmacists unemployed within just a year or two. So what will happen after disaster occurs? Will it be so bad for a few years that thousands of pharmacy school graduates are forced to pursue other careers, and then after a few years of massive unemployment, the market will correct itself (I.e., pharmacy schools will shut down and the job market becomes somewhat favorable again)?

 

[Pharmerjoe77]

So there aren't a substantial number of pharmacists that are predicted to retire in the next 10 years? Like other posters in the thread made mention of -- if the BLS numbers are accurate and you crunch the numbers, then there will be thousands of pharmacists unemployed within just a year or two. So what will happen after disaster occurs? Will it be so bad for a few years that thousands of pharmacy school graduates are forced to pursue other careers, and then after a few years of massive unemployment, the market will correct itself (I.e., pharmacy schools will shut down and the job market becomes somewhat favorable again)?

Pursuing other careers would be wise.. the gravy train is gone and pharmacy will never be as good as it once was. Find a medical profession that actually has a future. Again technology is going to be devastating to this field along with the oversupply of pharmacists. Both factors will ruin us.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Pursuing other careers would be wise.. the gravy train is gone and pharmacy will never be as good as it once was. Find a medical profession that actually has a future. Again technology is going to be devastating to this field along with the oversupply of pharmacists. Both factors will ruin us.

How is technology going to affect the field?

 

[Pharmerjoe77]

How is technology going to affect the field?

Have you heard of automated dispensing kiosks? Mail order? Most of what a pharmacist does can and will be replaced by robots (read this during pharmacy school). Clinical pharmacy isn't safe either because of new information technology systems ( IBM)

 

[Rukn]

Have you heard of automated dispensing kiosks? Mail order? Most of what a pharmacist does can and will be replaced by robots (read this during pharmacy school). Clinical pharmacy isn't safe either because of new information technology systems ( IBM)

Retail is actually the only area that I see where the pharmacist will never truly be replaced. I don't see the law ever changing so you will always have to have a registered pharmacist overseeing the distribution and dispensing of pharmaceuticals. A dispensing pharmacist won't be replaced.

We've had automation for years. ScriptPro, Yuyama, Parata and other automation have been around for years.

And you still need pharmacist in mail order.

I do see areas like clinical and managed care to be at risk.

 

[Pharmerjoe77]

Retail is actually the only area that I see where the pharmacist will never truly be replaced. I don't see the law ever changing so you will always have to have a registered pharmacist overseeing the distribution and dispensing of pharmaceuticals. A dispensing pharmacist won't be replaced.

We've had automation for years. ScriptPro, Yuyama, Parata and other automation have been around for years.

And you still need pharmacist in mail order.

I do see areas like clinical and managed care to be at risk.

Laws can change. Especially if it's shown technology can dispense drugs more accurately, safely and efficiently. True there are still pharmacists helping run mail order facilities but think about how much mail order can take away from community pharmacy. Plus a lot of emergency departments already have automated dispensing with no pharmacist.

 

[Jbrl]

http://www.drugchannels.net/2016/01/grim-job-outlook-for-retail-pharmacists.html

"The U.S Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) projects that total pharmacist employment will grow by 3% by 2024. Pharmacist employment at retail, mail, and specialty pharmacies, however, will decline by -0.8% by 2024. (See table below.) The decrease will be concentrated in chain and independent pharmacies, which are projected to employ about 7,000 fewer pharmacists...BLS projects that over the next 10 years, physician offices, outpatient clinics, home healthcare, and hospitals will collectively add 9,300 pharmacist jobs (+11%)."

 

[Pharmerjoe77]

http://www.drugchannels.net/2016/01/grim-job-outlook-for-retail-pharmacists.html

"The U.S Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) projects that total pharmacist employment will grow by 3% by 2024. Pharmacist employment at retail, mail, and specialty pharmacies, however, will decline by -0.8% by 2024. (See table below.) The decrease will be concentrated in chain and independent pharmacies, which are projected to employ about 7,000 fewer pharmacists...BLS projects that over the next 10 years, physician offices, outpatient clinics, home healthcare, and hospitals will collectively add 9,300 pharmacist jobs (+11%)."

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So retail and dispensing positions are projected to decline, not grow in ten years. Of course schools will say MTM, clinical pharmacy, blah blah blah but we haven't really seen that take off much. The reason a lot of clinical positions exist is the salary is supported by a school of pharmacy.

 

[Jbrl]

So retail and dispensing positions are projected to decline, not grow in ten years. Of course schools will say MTM, clinical pharmacy, blah blah blah but we haven't really seen that take off much. The reason a lot of clinical positions exist is the salary is supported by a school of pharmacy.

Seems so, unfortunately. Retail is in worse shape than the final 3% figure suggests.

 

[Digsbe]

It's all about "healthcare consolidation" to save costs and basically means more work for same pay and less jobs. The way insurance has become if you aren't a mega chain you'll have a hard time surviving, and smaller chains will get bought out.

 

[Pharmerjoe77]

It amazes me that even with all this evidence that the future no longer looks bright for pharmacy that so many people still decide to pursue it. There's much better options out there. There's no way I'd go into pharmacy now with the dismal job outlook and flooded market!

 

[pharmatme]

It amazes me that even with all this evidence that the future no longer looks bright for pharmacy that so many people still decide to pursue it. There's much better options out there. There's no way I'd go into pharmacy now with the dismal job outlook and flooded market!

What other options?
Physician- Longer school/residency, if a pharmacist works similar hours as physicians income gap becomes less, more stressful work environment, can't leave work at work/call
Dentistry- huge amount of tuition, cities/suburbs are saturated just like pharmacist. Competition with corporate dentistry, looking into people's icky mouths all day, some people are clumsy with hand eye coordination (me lol).
computer engineer-start with lower income, have to work up in in the hierarchy with no guarantee and in itself is dependent where you went to school. Stanford/MIT vs. community/junior college, outsourcing.
physician assistant-lack of opportunity to go open a solo practice.

 

[Pharmerjoe77]

What other options?
Physician- Longer school/residency, if a pharmacist works similar hours as physicians income gap becomes less, more stressful work environment, can't leave work at work/call
Dentistry- huge amount of tuition, cities/suburbs are saturated just like pharmacist. Competition with corporate dentistry, looking into people's icky mouths all day, some people are clumsy with hand eye coordination (me lol).
computer engineer-start with lower income, have to work up in in the hierarchy with no guarantee and in itself is dependent where you went to school. Stanford/MIT vs. community/junior college, outsourcing.
physician assistant-lack of opportunity to go open a solo practice.

Physicians can make significantly more income than pharmacists and are much more important and in demand. Huge stability in comparison to pharmacy. Dentistry is definitely not for everyone but there is also significantly more earning potential here and job stability. Computer software engineering salaries start in the 6 figure range and make similar to what pharmacists currently make but with potential to exceed a pharmacist salary in the long run. A huge advantage of this route is the shorter time commitment and no need to take out 6 figure student loans. You don't become a PA because you want a solo practice... Still way more in demand than pharmacists and potential to earn more than a pharmacist. Just look up the BLS job outlook of all these fields and compare it to the pitiful 3% for pharmacists.

 

[pharmatme]

Physicians can make significantly more income than pharmacists and are much more important and in demand. Huge stability in comparison to pharmacy. Dentistry is definitely not for everyone but there is also significantly more earning potential here and job stability. Computer software engineering salaries start in the 6 figure range and make similar to what pharmacists currently make but with potential to exceed a pharmacist salary in the long run. A huge advantage of this route is the shorter time commitment and no need to take out 6 figure student loans. You don't become a PA because you want a solo practice... Still way more in demand than pharmacists and potential to earn more than a pharmacist. Just look up the BLS job outlook of all these fields and compare it to the pitiful 3% for pharmacists.

I'm still a P1 in three year program. If you don't mind me asking do you work in retail? From my experience so far pharmacists who work in retail have less job satisfaction than institution and those who are own a successful independent have a very similar lifestyle to dentists. Do you agree/disagree with the previous sentence?

 

[Pharmerjoe77]

I'm still a P1 in three year program. If you don't mind me asking do you work in retail? From my experience so far pharmacists who work in retail have less job satisfaction than institution and those who are own a successful independent have a very similar lifestyle to dentists. Do you agree/disagree with the previous sentence?

Yes retail. There aren't nearly as many jobs outside retail. I would disagree on the independent pharmacy owner part. It's extremely difficult to own a profitable independent pharmacy. Unfortunately. It's very common in dentistry but rare in pharmacy. I just wouldn't recommend pharmacy over these other options because there's not nearly as many openings/opportunities. It's not worth the gamble and the continuing decline happening in the profession.

 

[JakeSill]

Engineering vs Computer Science?

 

[torontopharm]

What other options?
Physician- Longer school/residency, if a pharmacist works similar hours as physicians income gap becomes less, more stressful work environment, can't leave work at work/call
Dentistry- huge amount of tuition, cities/suburbs are saturated just like pharmacist. Competition with corporate dentistry, looking into people's icky mouths all day, some people are clumsy with hand eye coordination (me lol).
computer engineer-start with lower income, have to work up in in the hierarchy with no guarantee and in itself is dependent where you went to school. Stanford/MIT vs. community/junior college, outsourcing.
physician assistant-lack of opportunity to go open a solo practice.

Perhaps Optometry? Solo practice possible, cheaper tuition than dental, start at 80-90k but work your way up. Looks decent to me from an outsider's perspective.

I can only speak anecdotally for CS/comp. Engineering etc. Yes, they start at a lower salary on average. But they're making 80k-ish straight from undergrad with minimal debt. That's not a bad position to be in. Accounting, Actuary etc. are also great fields if you're into that. It's just that these aren't fields that would attract most science grads.

 

[UofK]

How much do we really think salary will drop?

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I think that the answer to that question is irrelevant if you can't even obtain a job, but to answer your question, zero. Salaries will continue to remain stagnant, in effect leading to a 3% salary decrease per year due to inflation.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I think that the answer to that question is irrelevant if you can't even obtain a job, but to answer your question, zero. Salaries will continue to remain stagnant, in effect leading to a 3% salary decrease per year due to inflation.

Tell me more about this 3% inflation you project.

 

[UofK]

Tell me more about this 3% inflation you project.

Consumer Price Index.

Historical rates are readily available via the web.

 

[wagrxm2000]

In that case someone correct me if I'm wrong but since 2008 we've seen less then 2% average inflation and actually closer to 1% but I'm too lazy to confirm.

 

[genesis09]

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUUR0000SA0?output_view=pct_1mth There hasn't been significant inflation in years. We might start seeing some because the federal reserve is starting to raise interest rates.

 

[Digsbe]

Perhaps Optometry? Solo practice possible, cheaper tuition than dental, start at 80-90k but work your way up. Looks decent to me from an outsider's perspective.

I can only speak anecdotally for CS/comp. Engineering etc. Yes, they start at a lower salary on average. But they're making 80k-ish straight from undergrad with minimal debt. That's not a bad position to be in. Accounting, Actuary etc. are also great fields if you're into that. It's just that these aren't fields that would attract most science grads.

From what I've read optometry seems pretty saturated too.

Seems like much of healthcare is saturated except for primary care, certain physician specialties, and mid levels. Personally I think the biggest growth and opportunity is going to be among the mid levels (PA, NP).

 

[Humble Sloth]

I wonder what the reason of the projected decrease in demand is -- do you guys think it's from too many new pharmacists being graduated every year, or is the demand for pharmacy-related services simply going down (in other words, the demand projection has nothing to do with the number of new graduates and would still be decreased)?

pharmacy related services? is this a joke? MTM and provider status don't exist outside of university fairy tails. Clinical pharmacy positions are on life support.


GG pharmacy

make as much money as you can before the big bubble bursts

 

[bulldog1123]

pharmacy related services? is this a joke? MTM and provider status don't exist outside of university fairy tails. Clinical pharmacy positions are on life support.


GG pharmacy

make as much money as you can before the big bubble bursts

you must have a lot of time on your hands to go dig up 10 month old posts.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Over 50% of pharmacists were born in the 1960s or before, and 53% of pharmacists are women when as late as 2009 that number was 44%. So maybe it's 8,000/year instead of 6,900 but it is still a problem.

Pharmacists born in the 50's & 60's aren't retiring anytime soon, pharmacists born in 1951 are just turning 65 this year. Not to mention "full retirement" is 66 for anyone born between 1955 - 1959, and 67 years for anyone born in 1960 and afterward. You are also assuming that pharmacists retire when they hit 65, and from what I've seen they aren't. There are lots of senior citizens phamacists still working, and they aren't going to quit working because they didn't bother to save for retirement. When I think about it, I have never personally known a pharmacist to retire. Not even 1, which does seem really bizarre. I have known senior citizen pharmacists who died while they were still employed. So, yeah n=1, but in my experience pharmacists work until they die, they don't retire.