board certification process

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cincincyreds

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Someone asked me a question about how many times one could take the written exam. I looked it up on the ABA website but couldn't find an answer except for an individual needs to be boarded 7 years from finishing residency.

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sounds about right, but in 2017 it will be an entirely different process than it is presently
 
Unlimited attempts on written and/or oral.

If you complete residency after January 2012, you have seven years to complete all aspects of certification.

You can take one exam (written or oral) per calendar year.

-In essence you could take the written 6 times and the oral once, and you would meet the requirements.

If you don't meet the criteria within seven years, I think you have to reapply for certification. Not sure how far back u have to go though.

-Note that the examinations are going to a staged system. THREE exams soon for certification. BASIC, ADVANCED, and APPLIED. BASIC will be taken after CA1 year. ADVANCED upon residency graduation. APPLIED is the oral (with some changes from current format--I believe there will be simulation scenarios)

All this can be found in ABA newsletter 2013

http://www.theaba.org/pdf/Newsletters/ABA-Newsletter-2013.pdf
 
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THREE exams soon for certification. BASIC, ADVANCED, and APPLIED. ]

3 exams? What on earth for? What can possible be gained except money by having three exams. This is assinine!!
 
3 exams? What on earth for? What can possible be gained except money by having three exams. This is assinine!!

Precisely.

Instead of one written exam that covers pharm, monitors, gen anesthesia, and specialty anesthesia, the first exam will cover pharm, monitors, some gen anesthesia. The second exam will cover everything else. GENIUS!!

CHA-CHING!!! CHA-CHING!!!
 
3 exams? What on earth for? What can possible be gained except money by having three exams. This is assinine!!

In talking briefly with my chairman about these changes, he stated the ABA felt that too many residents were simply "cramming" for boards at the end of residency. I'm certain this practice isn't limited to anesthesiology alone and is widely prevalent across all fields of medicine, but the anesthesia powers that be decided that something had to be done. And thus we have a third exam to make sure residents are studying throughout their training, while also squeezing more money from their pockets.

One interesting situation will arise with residents who fail the first exam, as apparently you only have two attempts to pass it. With a greater number of residents forced to repeat their CA1 year, and only a limited amount of funding for residency positions, I have a feeling we may be seeing an increased number of residents being dismissed from their training programs. No bueno.
 
In talking briefly with my chairman about these changes, he stated the ABA felt that too many residents were simply "cramming" for boards at the end of residency. I'm certain this practice isn't limited to anesthesiology alone and is widely prevalent across all fields of medicine, but the anesthesia powers that be decided that something had to be done. And thus we have a third exam to make sure residents are studying throughout their training, while also squeezing more money from their pockets.

One interesting situation will arise with residents who fail the first exam, as apparently you only have two attempts to pass it. With a greater number of residents forced to repeat their CA1 year, and only a limited amount of funding for residency positions, I have a feeling we may be seeing an increased number of residents being dismissed from their training programs. No bueno.

These changes sound like a way of making more money. But the worst part is failing the first part after first year 2 times. What does someone do after that? Imagine an 85% pass rate on that with lets say 2000 resident per year. That is like 300 people being screwed over yearly. Imagine all that time and the 300 grand to go to college and medical school and now you are out of a residency. Not very nice. What is little Johnny supposed to do next?

When is this ingenious plan going to start? I can't wait until they add more exams for our MOCA. I'm sure that is coming down the pipeline.

And lastly, if we have to do this, so should the cRNA's who carry the doctor of nursing degrees. In fact, they should pass steps 1,2, and 3 and then pass these exams also. They should also do MOCA. I mean, they claim there equal on the commercials I hear on the radio.

Look, I believe there needs to be some certification process. But why change something that has worked for the last 30 years.
 
These changes sound like a way of making more money. But the worst part is failing the first part after first year 2 times. What does someone do after that? Imagine an 85% pass rate on that with lets say 2000 resident per year. That is like 300 people being screwed over yearly. Imagine all that time and the 300 grand to go to college and medical school and now you are out of a residency. Not very nice. What is little Johnny supposed to do next?

When is this ingenious plan going to start? I can't wait until they add more exams for our MOCA. I'm sure that is coming down the pipeline.

And lastly, if we have to do this, so should the cRNA's who carry the doctor of nursing degrees. In fact, they should pass steps 1,2, and 3 and then pass these exams also. They should also do MOCA. I mean, they claim there equal on the commercials I hear on the radio.

Look, I believe there needs to be some certification process. But why change something that has worked for the last 30 years.

It starts with the current interns. They will be the first to take the basic boards.
 
In talking briefly with my chairman about these changes, he stated the ABA felt that too many residents were simply "cramming" for boards at the end of residency. I'm certain this practice isn't limited to anesthesiology alone and is widely prevalent across all fields of medicine, but the anesthesia powers that be decided that something had to be done. And thus we have a third exam to make sure residents are studying throughout their training, while also squeezing more money from their pockets.

One interesting situation will arise with residents who fail the first exam, as apparently you only have two attempts to pass it. With a greater number of residents forced to repeat their CA1 year, and only a limited amount of funding for residency positions, I have a feeling we may be seeing an increased number of residents being dismissed from their training programs. No bueno.

That "cramming" theory is bogus.

With the new system residents who are crammers will just cram the pharm, physio, physics, and monitors before the BASIC exam at the end of CA-1. Then they will cram the rest at the end of residency for the ADVANCED exam.

Prior system had one exam at the end of three years covering topics 1-100.

New system has two exams over the three years. Exam 1 will cover topics 1-30 and exam 2 will cover topics 31-100.

So instead of the crammers "cramming" all at the end, they will just cram at two points in their residency
 
That "cramming" theory is bogus.

With the new system residents who are crammers will just cram the pharm, physio, physics, and monitors before the BASIC exam at the end of CA-1. Then they will cram the rest at the end of residency for the ADVANCED exam.

Prior system had one exam at the end of three years covering topics 1-100.

New system has two exams over the three years. Exam 1 will cover topics 1-30 and exam 2 will cover topics 31-100.

So instead of the crammers "cramming" all at the end, they will just cram at two points in their residency

Exactly.
 
When I was interviewing this year, I spoke with a few attendings at various programs who are on the board of the ABA/intimately involved with developing the basic exam. They said that the purpose of the new exam was to help identify weaknesses early on in residency. Without prompting, one or two of them flat out said that if a resident fails the basic exam they would likely be fired, so I guess you can only work on your weaknesses if you don't outright fail it...
 
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I wish there was more transparency with the financials of the ABA. For example, show us exactly how much of our board exam fees are going to the actual exam administration versus how much goes to the ABA coffers. And I agree --doctors of every specialty screw each other!
 
When I was interviewing this year, I spoke with a few attendings at various programs who are on the board of the ABA/intimately involved with developing the basic exam. They said that the purpose of the new exam was to help identify weaknesses early on in residency. Without prompting, one or two of them flat out said that if a resident fails the basic exam they would likely be fired, so I guess you can only work on your weaknesses if you don't outright fail it...

I just don't buy this reasoning at all.

IT'S ALL BECAUSE OF MONEY!!!!

They simply SPLIT the written examination's content into two exams now. Over the course of the three years they are now going to be earning DOUBLE for testing residents on the EXACT same content they were previously.

The material and format have not changed. They have just turned the previous exam into the Written Parts 1 and 2.

Some thoughts....

If you read the newsletter, the ABA grants an UNLIMITED amount of times to take any exam with the caveat that you have to complete certification requirements within SEVEN years of graduating residency. I repeat...SEVEN YEARS. This was a recent change as well. Previously (as of three or four years ago) you had three attempts at the written or oral exam and if you failed your third attempt, you essentially had to start over. It appears the ABA felt that this was too harsh, so now they adopted the unlimited attempts at exams and complete certification requirements within seven years from graduating residency. With the beleif that you pass the BASIC after CA1 year, this means you have SEVEN years to pass two exams. That now is what the ABA beleives to be reasonable.

So a dude could fail the ADVANCED (written part 2 at end of CA3 year) five times, pass on his sixth, then pass the APPLIED on his first attempt, and be considered a board certified anesthesiologist.

...But you are telling me that the reason for the BASIC is to identify which residents are weak after CA1 year, and could possibly be terminated after a failed attempt or two??????????

...Does not make sense.

...I will tell you the reason and the reality.

The reason for the BASIC is mo' money. Plain and simple. Any reasoning for improved education, avoidance of cramming, encouragement of three year long studying, is all window dressing. All you have to do is look at the facts.

The ABA felt the previous restrictions on certification were too harsh--three strikes and you're out?? Ouch. Imagine you failed your orals twice--people here have failed the oral twice (just look at the most recent thread)--can you imagine going to oral for a third time knowing that if you don't pass (remember you have a job and are like 3-4 years out of residency), you have to .... START OVER (maybe even do another year in residency??). Ouch!! ABA thought that was harsh. New system is more lenient. Take the tests as many times as you want (one test per calendar year), but you gotta get it done within seven years of residency, otherwise you gotta re-apply for certification (and I don't think you have to go back to a year of residency anymore).

So since they obviously are trying to be more lenient in the certification process, you are telling me that the ABA wants this BASIC examination early to fire people early on??? That is a complete contradiction from their most recent rule change in allowing unlimited attempts. So again the reason is money. Another fact--The original written exam is just split now into two exams!! It's not like there is a written and a skilled exam early. They just divided the traditional written content into two parts.

In radiology there are three exams for board certification. These are taken during residency. You have a physics board, a written board, and an oral board. The physics board is taken after your PGY2 year i believe. Anyway, when I heard this, I just thought that was interesting because our boards are all after residency. I also thought that someday the ABA would say we have to pass a pharmacology board after CA1 year. Why? Because they can. It would be tough to argue. Anesthesiologists should know their pharm. It would also be a source of extra income for the ABA. And guess what. That's what they did.

The reality. In the newsletter they are clear on what failure of the BASIC exam will mean. If resident fails in July, they can take it in January. If they fail in January that resident will require to receive an unsatisfactory report for medical knowledge in their residency report. If they fail a third time, they require an additional six months of training. From there on, the resident will require an additional six months of training for every subsequent failure of the BASIC.

THE REAL REALITY. Program directors can fire residents. Failure of the BASIC will be ammunition to FIRE a resident. Why do I know this? Because I know some residencies fire residents for not doing well on the ITE's.

I am not saying all programs will do this, but it gives ammuntion to some.

What I see most likely occurring is that if you fail the BASIC a second time, some programs will fire that resident based on their belief that the resident is lacking in medical competence, but this will not be in accordance with what the ABA says. Furthermore, being fired from anesthesiology residency for failing the BASIC twice is going to make it extremely difficult for you to get back into an anesthesiology residency and ever get board certified. Yet if you pass the BASIC and graduate residency, you could fail the ADVANCED and APPLIED multiple times within seven years and the ABA says that is OK.

So the reality is the ABA still feels it is OK to fail the BASIC a few times, but there needs to be some punishments if you are failing it multiple time. The real REALITY is that residencies are likely not going to tolerate multiple failures and FIRE you (not what the ABA recommends based on the newsletter), and then it will be very difficult to enter a new residency and become board certified
 
I certainly don't think that the ABA intended for the basic exam to be used to fire residents--I was just simply sharing what I heard while on the interview trail.

I'm sure that money is a big factor in the splitting of the exams, hidden under the guise of "we don't want residents to cram for the boards" and "we want to identify weaknesses early on in training".

I mean after all, don't ITEs help identify weakness in the core knowledge of residents?
 
I certainly don't think that the ABA intended for the basic exam to be used to fire residents--I was just simply sharing what I heard while on the interview trail.

I'm sure that money is a big factor in the splitting of the exams, hidden under the guise of "we don't want residents to cram for the boards" and "we want to identify weaknesses early on in training".

I mean after all, don't ITEs help identify weakness in the core knowledge of residents?

Precisely
 
If you read the newsletter, the ABA grants an UNLIMITED amount of times to take any exam with the caveat that you have to complete certification requirements within SEVEN years of graduating residency. I repeat...SEVEN YEARS. This was a recent change as well. Previously (as of three or four years ago) you had three attempts at the written or oral exam and if you failed your third attempt, you essentially had to start over. It appears the ABA felt that this was too harsh, so now they adopted the unlimited attempts at exams and complete certification requirements within seven years from graduating residency.

The new "7 years to get certified" rule is the work of ABMS, not the ABA.

http://www.theaba.org/Home/notices

New ABA Policy on Duration of Candidate Status for Primary Certification in Anesthesiology

The ABMS is striving to establish consistency amongst its 24 Member Boards regarding the time frame in which a physician must complete the requirements for certification relative to the physician’s satisfactory completion of an ACGME-accredited residency program. On September 21, 2011, the ABMS created a new policy mandating that no more than seven (7) years can elapse between a physician’s completion of residency training and achievement of Board Certification.

Emphasis mine.


Splitting the written into two parts is all ABA though, and it's hard to see any point to it beyond money. It's a bureaucracy justifying its own existence. We already have annual ITEs and the level-appropriate AKTs to help residents assess their academic progress.
 
excalibur, you have touched on quite a few good points here. When the exam was being considered, the ABA said clearly that the purpose was not to be a means to fire a resident. That was at the beginning. Once the exam was established and a straw poll of a room full of program directors was done, about 2/3 said they would release a resident who failed it twice. Failing twice is an automatic unsatisfactory (on the medical knowledge portion of the 6 core competencies) on the resident's six month report for the previous 6 months and any 6 month periods that follow up until the point that the resident successfully passes the exam. Most of you know that if you get 2 consecutive unsatisfactories, you get no credit for the entire year and are forced to repeat a year. In addition, a resident may not progress to the CA-III year until the basic science exam is passed.

I would hope that no program in the country would fire a resident for not passing on the first try without giving them a second (or third) chance with a better monitored study plan..

Many pessimists might say that this is a way for each program to improve their overall board pass rate, since people who (might) will fail the exam will never get to that point (ie, poor test takers get weeded out early). So this will be quite an equalizer for programs whose board pass rate has been dismal.

So, the ABA seems to have started off with the intention that this exam would not be a weed out exam, but I doubt they will stay true to that. They expressed no remorse/concern at the meeting when the majority of PD's told them that it would be a weed out exam.

In addition, at the same meeting, it was stated that there would be no additional fee for the candidate for splitting the exam as it will be done next year. That promise will be difficult to verify since the exam fee has escalated astronomically every year, even without the split exam. I suspect they will say it is the normal fee increase and account for it that way.
 
Has to be about the money. It always is.

Looks like there'll be plenty of open residency spots in the next 2-3 years as junior residents get fired. How's that for correcting the "anesthesiologist shortage."

No worries. We got CRNAs to fill the need, baby. :naughty:
 
College application fees is all about $$
Cost of College and medical school is all about $$
Rising student loan interest rates is all about $$
USMLE Step II CS is all about $$
MOCA is all about $$
This ABA Basic Exam is all about $$
Crazy hoops to jump through to get state license is all about $$

How many other things that I have left out that are all about $$

Who is going to fight the system and put their license at jeopardy? The whole system is run by bullies.
 
College application fees is all about $$
Cost of College and medical school is all about $$
Rising student loan interest rates is all about $$
USMLE Step II CS is all about $$
MOCA is all about $$
This ABA Basic Exam is all about $$
Crazy hoops to jump through to get state license is all about $$

How many other things that I have left out that are all about $$

Who is going to fight the system and put their license at jeopardy? The whole system is run by bullies.

and don't forget the (in)famous SECONDARY MED SCHOOL APPLICATION FEE.

Will there soon be a tertiary application??
 
and don't forget the (in)famous SECONDARY MED SCHOOL APPLICATION FEE.

Will there soon be a tertiary application??

I wonder if the aba program directors read this forum. In this thread, we are boarded attendings concerned about the next generation. In fact, these guys made sure they are grandfathered so they don't have to spend time and money on moca.

If I was a senior in college knowing what I know, I would still want to do anesthesia, but I would have concerns. Student loan rates of 8 percent on 500,000 debt for private college and med school. Now a more difficult certification process in anesthesia.

And the worst. Nurses saying they are equivalent to what we do. If the aba could do something about this, I would not mind the expenses and time spent on the journey.
 
I wonder if the aba program directors read this forum. In this thread, we are boarded attendings concerned about the next generation. In fact, these guys made sure they are grandfathered so they don't have to spend time and money on moca.

If I was a senior in college knowing what I know, I would still want to do anesthesia, but I would have concerns. Student loan rates of 8 percent on 500,000 debt for private college and med school. Now a more difficult certification process in anesthesia.

And the worst. Nurses saying they are equivalent to what we do. If the aba could do something about this, I would not mind the expenses and time spent on the journey.

I am on your side, but to be fair, the ABA requires all of it's examiners and officers to be active in the MOCA process and recertification. I think that it won't be long before hospitals will require their physicians to be recertified in order to maintain privileges. Whether right or wrong, I think medicine is headed that way.
 
I'm actually for pretty stringent certification/recertification processes, however I still cannot wrap my head around the dichotomy (or is it hypocrisy?) of making physician certification harder & more expensive, while at the same time allowing non-physicians - with much less training - to do the job of a physician.
 
I agree with you cincincyreds. I hope this money is used to further our profession from the political standpoint. You hear all this crap about better quality of care and education, but docs are the only ones being forced with all this nonsense. Lesser trained nurses of a higher quality than a doc who has gone through a extensive training, testing and application process? I don't think so.
 
I'm actually for pretty stringent certification/recertification processes, however I still cannot wrap my head around the dichotomy (or is it hypocrisy?) of making physician certification harder & more expensive, while at the same time allowing non-physicians - with much less training - to do the job of a physician.

Extremely hypocritical. Docs are an easy target. We are the upper one percent as far as intellect. The common joe can't relate with us. Nurses on the other hand, unions and blue collar joes can relate to, therefore politicians know to not hurt nurses, therefore, since we are considered a less risky political target, we are targeted politically. Gotta love democracy. This political system fosters ineptitude, laziness, and poor quality.
 
Wait till u guys become attendings.

I have to pay a stupid $250 NICA Fee to Florida each year. A $400 tennesse professional privilege tax. These fees are in addition to the regular renewal fees and are annual.

You will have to pay for medical staff privileges if you are not employed. Those run $200-500 a year usually.

The list goes on. It doesn't get any cheaper
 
Wait till u guys become attendings.

I have to pay a stupid $250 NICA Fee to Florida each year. A $400 tennesse professional privilege tax. These fees are in addition to the regular renewal fees and are annual.

You will have to pay for medical staff privileges if you are not employed. Those run $200-500 a year usually.

The list goes on. It doesn't get any cheaper

Also known as the "incidental additional overcharge"
 
Precisely.

Instead of one written exam that covers pharm, monitors, gen anesthesia, and specialty anesthesia, the first exam will cover pharm, monitors, some gen anesthesia. The second exam will cover everything else. GENIUS!!

CHA-CHING!!! CHA-CHING!!!

How sure are you that the ABA is charging more for the test in two parts instead of one? I was told by someone that should know that the price will be the same for both parts as it is currently for the single written exam, but I have no way to verify it.
 
How sure are you that the ABA is charging more for the test in two parts instead of one? I was told by someone that should know that the price will be the same for both parts as it is currently for the single written exam, but I have no way to verify it.

As I said above, I was told the same thing. I suspect it will be the same for a couple years and then there will be separate fees. There used to be only one fee (for writtens and orals) that was all paid at once. After the fees went up so much, they began to divide them (since residents could not afford the huge fee). This occurred in the early 2000's IIRC.
 
As I said above, I was told the same thing. I suspect it will be the same for a couple years and then there will be separate fees. There used to be only one fee (for writtens and orals) that was all paid at once. After the fees went up so much, they began to divide them (since residents could not afford the huge fee). This occurred in the early 2000's IIRC.

This.

There may be a grace period where it's one price for both exams for an allotted transitional time period, but then it will just go up.

I think I remember reading someone posting that the first MOCA written exam cost x amount of dollars and the very next year it was 2x.
 
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