Board Exam Pass/Fail?? I just learned that today

[hk64]

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I am a student who has applied in this cycle.
I have heard that the board exam is now pass/fail system, which was quite surprising for my previous understanding.

In my mind, I thought board exam score of ~95 is quite good score to aim at specialty, and I heard some schools focus on getting high score on these exams rather than actual clinical education, and so these schools are more advantageous for specialty, while suck at clinics.

Like NYU and Columbia..
As far as I read on the forum, people say that lots of students specialize out of Columbia, while NYU is not that advantageous for specialty as it more solely focuses on clinics (which I even heard from the tour guide). I thought it is because Columbia satisfy clinics and let students spend more time to get high board score (and perhaps that's why they have honor, pass, fail system, although also heard students get pressured to achieve honors over pass) that with those high scores they are getting more seats for specialty compared to other schools.

But, if the board exam is pass/fail, I think there is no point to solely prepare for getting high board exam score while sacrificing clinics, and it feels like Columbia is no more advantageous over NYU. What are current situation on this? Or, does Columbia or some other schools still has "name value" that help their students for specialty? Or, from now on, is the class rank much more serious factor?

 

[EpicDentist]

Post-grad programs will judge you based on your GPA and performance in classes. I actually like this better, since it's a great indicator as to how you'll do in their program.

 

[AlbinoPolarBear]

It just means they will measure you with another standardized test that is scored.

For oral surgery, you have to take the nbme cbse.

For orthodontics, you have to take the GRE.

 

[AlbinoPolarBear]

And Columbia does "rank".

They separate their class into thirds. Top third, middle third, bottom third. You'll have a harder time specializing if you don't honor your classes and get in the top third.

 

[NDPitch]

It just means they will measure you with another standardized test that is scored.

For oral surgery, you have to take the nbme cbse.

For orthodontics, you have to take the GRE.

Right. Not to mention some schools are P/F, and then the boards are P/F. I think, eventually, all specialty programs will have their own exams, just like OMS.

 

[hk64]

so,

the school doesn't matter anymore.. right?

If I am going to NYU, it doesn't mean that I am starting behind some who enroll in Columbia, correct?

I am curious, when I had the tour last september, the tour guide mentioned me that they focus on the clinics so that it is disadvantageous to specialize as a fact. He even mentioned that his friend who ranked #5 in school didn't make into specialty (I don't know which specialty he was aiming).

Anyway, seriously GRE for Orthodontics???

Shoot, I have to take verbal classes again..

 

[predent12]

the school doesn't matter anymore.. right?

If I am going to NYU, it doesn't mean that I am starting behind some who enroll in Columbia, correct?

First of all, I would disagree with this completely. Of course the school matters. About half of Columbia's class specializes. This makes sense because they bring in many of the top candidates in the country. However, having the Columbia name will also help gain your choice residency. It is a highly regarded program, for good reason.

However, if you went to NYU at any point, you would never "start behind" someone at Columbia. You might have a harder time gaining a top residency, but you will still be attending a great school with lots of opportunities in the future. There are really no "bad" dental schools! Just some that may be a better fit for you.

The Columbia name will always be advantageous. They eliminated grades because the competition was nasty and cutthroat, and they wanted students to help each other out rather than try to harm each other. That being said, it is still P/F/H, so there are grades, to a certain degree.

Also, I don't know why anyone would say you need to be in the top third at Columbia to specialize. This isn't true at all. First of all, about half of the class specializes. Secondly, it isn't even the top half necessarily- sometimes students in the top half will decide to go into GPR instead.

Finally, a few other things to think about. First of all, Columbia has the med school curriculum, which tends to prepare a person better for the academic side of dentistry. The boards were changed to P/F because they didn't want their score to be used as an indicator for performance in one field. This means that each field will have to come up with their own exam, so that applicants can be better evaluated. That being said, Columbia's academics are more comprehensive than NYU, (NYU doesn't even use cadavers! They teach you anatomy some other way that was vaguely introduced in our tour,) and so if you want to be better prepared, then I would think Columbia would be the better option. Secondly, NYU's tuition and fees are about $20,000 a year more than NYU, as well as the cost of living is cheaper (Wash Heights vs. Kips Bay) so that is something to consider as well. Essentially, a better academic program and name for a cheaper price. It's a no brainer.

I am biased of course. I think the med school curriculum should be required by all schools, personally, but that's just my opinion. Anyway, I would say that Columbia is a much, much better option than NYU. That doesn't mean, however, that NYU isn't a good program or a good choice.

 

[CedarZ4]

First of all, I would disagree with this completely. Of course the school matters. About half of Columbia's class specializes. This makes sense because they bring in many of the top candidates in the country. However, having the Columbia name will also help gain your choice residency. It is a highly regarded program, for good reason.

However, if you went to NYU at any point, you would never "start behind" someone at Columbia. You might have a harder time gaining a top residency, but you will still be attending a great school with lots of opportunities in the future. There are really no "bad" dental schools! Just some that may be a better fit for you.

The Columbia name will always be advantageous. They eliminated grades because the competition was nasty and cutthroat, and they wanted students to help each other out rather than try to harm each other. That being said, it is still P/F/H, so there are grades, to a certain degree.

Also, I don't know why anyone would say you need to be in the top third at Columbia to specialize. This isn't true at all. First of all, about half of the class specializes. Secondly, it isn't even the top half necessarily- sometimes students in the top half will decide to go into GPR instead.

Finally, a few other things to think about. First of all, Columbia has the med school curriculum, which tends to prepare a person better for the academic side of dentistry. The boards were changed to P/F because they didn't want their score to be used as an indicator for performance in one field. This means that each field will have to come up with their own exam, so that applicants can be better evaluated. That being said, Columbia's academics are more comprehensive than NYU, (NYU doesn't even use cadavers! They teach you anatomy some other way that was vaguely introduced in our tour,) and so if you want to be better prepared, then I would think Columbia would be the better option. Secondly, NYU's tuition and fees are about $20,000 a year more than NYU, as well as the cost of living is cheaper (Wash Heights vs. Kips Bay) so that is something to consider as well. Essentially, a better academic program and name for a cheaper price. It's a no brainer.

I am biased of course. I think the med school curriculum should be required by all schools, personally, but that's just my opinion. Anyway, I would say that Columbia is a much, much better option than NYU. That doesn't mean, however, that NYU isn't a good program or a good choice.

I don't disagree that given the choice, you should choose Columbia over NYU because Columbia, if anything, does have the name. However, I think what you're saying about people coming from Columbia have a higher specialization rate because of Columbia's superior program or opportunity is not true. I think it is more that since Columbia has the name, more competitive applicants and "top candidates" as you put it apply to the school. These people generally are "smarter" or "better" for a lack of better word, so of course they will get the higher grades required to specialize. Since NYU accepts less competitive students compared to Columbia, they are less likely to get as high of a grade compared to a Columbia student, not because they are at NYU, but because they could only get into NYU because they were not "smart" enough to get into Columbia in the first place. As in, the same student who specialized in Columbia would have specialized as well if he went to NYU. At the same time, the student who did not get into a specialty residency at NYU wouldn't have gotten into one even if he went to Columbia. Don't get me wrong, I think going to Columbia will give you a very very slight edge and a little push, but it is not as significant as you make it seem. There's a very large lurking variable that I think you are missing and you're making everything too simple.

Without opening another can of worms but for example's sake - it's like the Caribbean Medical Schools. Percentage of students who get into residency programs are lower, but that's because they are inherently "less smart" which is why they didn't get the grades to go to a US medical school. It's not the fact that the Caribbean Medical School "has a bad rep" that they didn't get into a hospital.

Also, this post wasn't meant to offend anyone. I'm not saying if you get into Columbia that you are actually smarter than someone who went to NYU, or if you go to a Caribbean Medical School that you are actually less smart, but just using those words for simplicity sake.

 

[predent12]

LOL, you think I make it too simple, but then do the same! Also if you read my post you would see that I also said that students who go to Columbia are inherently more competitive.

I don't think any one of us know how much a name really matters. But going to Columbia might help you get your CHOICE of residency, rather than just any residency. For example, a pediatric residency in NY, rather than just any pediatric residency.

Also, I never said that students have a higher rate of specialization because of their superior program!!

 

[CedarZ4]

LOL, you think I make it too simple, but then do the same! Also if you read my post you would see that I also said that students who go to Columbia are inherently more competitive.

I don't think any one of us know how much a name really matters. But going to Columbia might help you get your CHOICE of residency, rather than just any residency. For example, a pediatric residency in NY, rather than just any pediatric residency.

Also, I never said that students have a higher rate of specialization because of their superior program!!

I said you made it seem too simple in that you took it for the face value and overlooked lurking variables. I made it simple in the words I used, like "smarter" and "better" because we don't actually know if they are "smarter", or just "tried harder" or that the "less smart" person just didn't try as hard. It doesn't really effect my argument though.

Regardless, I do agree that Columbia will be a "better choice." But I think too many people are giving a school name too much credit than the weight it actually has. With that said, there are some schools that are worse than others for the students just due to their lack of organization, different focus (profit) etc. Other than the outliers, I would say most dentals will give you essentially the same opportunity to specializeas long as you do well. And I don't think doing well or not has to do with a specific program, rather how hard the student actually tried and his inherent capability in succeeding. That's all I'm trying to say.

In the end, none of us actually know, and it is all speculation. So it is just my .02s, but what you said may very well be right and Ivy names carry a big weight. I just don't think so.