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yeah I found the opposite somewhat... maybe because I was overly afraid of CP... I studied the hell out of it and found it to be a lot more manageable than AP. Who knows!??
 
“Lasciate ogni speranza voi ch'entrate “

This should be the sign above the entrance to the exam room in Tampa
 
Doctor Zaius said:
I recently took the test as well. I'm an AP-centric resident and I didn't think the AP portion was all that hard with the exception of all of the cytology images in the 3rd part of the test. If I had to study again, I'd focus on going through either baby demay or cibas prior to the test.

The CP portion was a different story. I studied long and hard via clinical compendium and osler notes and I still thought that this part of the test was a total beatdown. I felt like the images weren't that hard but on the other sections there were lots of regulatory questions and clinical chemistry esoterica. If I had to study again, I'd focus way more on chemistry and way less on molecular/genetics (very few questions in this area). The only consolation for me coming out of this part of the test is the fact that everyone I know that's taken it has thought they'd failed at the end.
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Just finished in Tampa. Totally agree with the above assessment. AP was hard, but reasonable I thought, except for several of the gyn cytology images which were ambiguous and I flat out guessed on.

CP was a different story. I knew probably 90% of Quick Compendium and Osler, and I felt like a good portion of the questions were unstudyable esoterica (that or outdated crap I've never heard of). I thought many of the CP practical questions were brutal, and I flat-out guessed on many--probably 20 questions or so I had no idea, and probably the majority I could narrow it down to two. I only really knew maybe twenty or so answers on the last portion.

I (and everyone else I talked to) thought they failed CP. I guess that's reassuring . . . The worst part about CP is that if I did fail, I'm not sure how I'd prepare differently next time.

Also, I realize that everyone's experience varies in this department, but I literally had almost no molecular or forensics on my test--probably 5 questions tops from each area, and probably only about 15-20 or so micro questions, several of which were on anaerobes (which I didn't study much....). There were a million coag questions, probably about 1/3 of the CP exam was coag, and a huge percentage of the AP questions were GYN. Almost no neuropath. I'm sure they mix this up though, so your mileage will probably vary.

The facility and testing staff were very nice. The Starbucks across the street is a lifesaver. If I passed, I will look back on this experience with such fondness 🙂
 
Just finished in Tampa x2. Someone (yaah?) previously said that AP was harder than they expected, while CP was easier than expected. I agree - that was pretty much my boards experience. And while it seems the test questions vary with every sitting, I took the same test as LoaLoa so clearly YMMV. I guess part of it is what you expect, and what your program prepares you for.

I felt like the first portion of AP (glass/virtual slides) was pretty straightforward (though for some you really had to hunt around for the level that had some normal residual tissue to give you an idea where TF in the body you were). But then things turned, and the written was particularly horrible.

I stayed at the Embassy Suites and studied often by the very nice pool, free happy hour libation in hand and snacks by my side. Only 3 blocks away with a free shuttle that will take you anywhere within an 8-mile radius every half hour. I think I was the youngest person there. Much more relaxing than at the Intercontinental, where it seemed every chair in the lobby was taken up by someone cramming Osler.

Was very glad to get on the first plane out. I made a 6pm flight with time to spare for a hot dog (carry-on bags only, though that trolley bag could've killed someone on impact with the weight of the binders and books I had stashed in it). On the flight back I sat down with my laptop and hammered out every single question I could remember, in case I failed and had to retake it. And then I went out with long-suffering husband and got sloshed at dinner.

The thought of having to do this every 10 years just kills me. Thank god I'm not taking subspecialty boards.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I go in another week. Some people told me to focus on the remembrances and know them and the differentials well. Do you guys feel that the remembrances were helpful or is it a waste of time?
 
There's not really one straightforward answer to that question (assuming they exist). If you're looking at it at the last minute, the level of esoterica for some of the stuff is just going to scare you unnecessarily, so that won't help. At the same time, they are useful to get a feel for the breadth of the questions.

One approach I've heard is that residents at some programs take a very organized approach to remembrances e.g. going through them systematically and archiving answers/images in one digital file. That probably works better (not that I was so fortunate as to have any such experience personally).
 
Took the same AP test as LoaLoa and deschutes.

I agree that the AP written was ridiculous. First question was forensics based (which of these tissues has the highest resistance, in ohms. Probably electrocution-related), and set the stage. I felt like keyboard cat should play me off after that part.

Virtual/glass slides were managable. Anything goes, but if you've been paying attention during residency, particularly if you're from a large program, you've seen everything there at least once. A lot of the glass was way faded, and there was a nonscreened ThinPrep as a virtual slide. Overall it was tough, but fair.

The practical section was IMO not too bad, but I've got a lot of cytology experience. Not a single image was white-balanced, and there was a lot of them that were out of focus. Most stuff was straight ID, and I think every question was a sentence or two.

I read Rosai and the Essentials book as preparation. I wish I'd read Robbins instead.
 
Dermbound00 said:
Thanks for the feedback. I go in another week. Some people told me to focus on the remembrances and know them and the differentials well. Do you guys feel that the remembrances were helpful or is it a waste of time?
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Not that I used rememberances. *sound of crickets chirping* But I would say that the "prior experience" of other residents was very helpful on several questions. It's definitely worth "looking into it".

I think it's funny how deschutes and others thought AP was brutal and I thought CP was the killer. I guess it does depend on your training program. One thing we can probably agree upon was that the correct answer to a lot of the questions on both portions was "who gives a ****", typified by the aforementioned one about electrical resistance in tissues. Unfortunately that was never a listed option on any of the questions.
 
Ok, now I really feel like crap..... My exam is Mon/Tues (crunch time, ironically I just got finished breaking down coag for the umpfteenth time so I hope I get that version of the test (later post) but knowing my luck I'll get all molecular)... I was hoping the new compendium and companion would make mincemeat of this CP board, ha!

Mango Fly (loa loa), I read that compendium cover to cover at least twice with breakdowns of all areas that I knew I would easily forget.... none of that flashcard stuff... I never was one for flashcards. I've retained a fair amount and I come from a program with good CP... well at least really good heme and coag, you get the idea. You knew 90% of everthing in that book and Osler?, thats impressive, there's a ton of information in those sources. But alas, as you said, it doesn't really matter because the board seems to be a total crap shoot anyway. I should probably stop cramming and just start drinking, at least that would take the edge off my anxiety.
 
Congrats to those who just took it and may your recovery be quick and painless! I'm just beginning to feel "normal" again 2+ weeks later. What a surreal and ridiculous experience.
 
Anything over a week prep for AP and around 2 weeks for CP is overkill for these tests.
 
Patrick O said:
Mango Fly (loa loa), I read that compendium cover to cover at least twice with breakdowns of all areas that I knew I would easily forget.... none of that flashcard stuff... I never was one for flashcards. I've retained a fair amount and I come from a program with good CP... well at least really good heme and coag, you get the idea. You knew 90% of everthing in that book and Osler?, thats impressive, there's a ton of information in those sources. But alas, as you said, it doesn't really matter because the board seems to be a total crap shoot anyway. I should probably stop cramming and just start drinking, at least that would take the edge off my anxiety.
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Well, to be more accurate it was probably around 90% of the quick compendium, and most of Osler's micro and blood bank sections. The chemistry I went through a couple of times, but it was killing me so I couldn't flog it to the same level. And after last night's drinking marathon with my co-residents, I'm sure I have flushed a good 5-10% already of what I learned. Give it a couple months and I'll be back down to regular old me.
 
I did not find the tests to be nearly as difficult as previous takers have described in this forum. I did put in months of studying but I wish I had not; either I knew it from my 4 years of training (or occasionally from medical school/graduate school training), I remembered it from the last 1-2 weeks of review, or I guessed.

Yaah, I interpret your sarcastic post to mean that you disagree with my opinion; would you care to elaborate?
 
Okay, time for me to give my $0.02 on the recent AP/CP 2009 spring boards, intended for both those taking the exam this spring as well as future upcoming test takers.

Room: I still think staying AT the actual hotel (hotel intercontinental) is a better idea vs staying nearby and maybe saving a few bucks here and there. Note that wifi is FREE at this hotel (unsure about others, I know folks who got screwed over thinking they'd have free wifi as well). Trust me, it's nice to be able to go up to your room on breaks/after lunch to hang out, wash up, take a nice dump while reading Mais on the pot, chilling on your bed, whatever. Just nice to GET AWAY from everyone else, congregating around in the lobby and whatnot, chatting nonstop about what everyone thought of this one question vs that one question. ARgghh, so f*cking annoying. Granted yes, I also did debrief with my fellow classmates after each day, but still, I just didn't wanna hear it from everyone else, in their frantic, obviously-nervous squeaky voices. We're ALL nervous, so just chill the hell out, okay!. Other tidbits about the hotel (and NO, I'm not getting $$$ from them or trying to artificially promote them) are a notably nice and free gym, an outdoor pool, as well as nice rooms with an awesome desk to study on and a killer flatscreen tv and comfy bed to relax with). There's an Illy expresso/coffee bar in the lobby and open early (starbucks outside is just across the street). The exam room is in an office building attached to and directly across from the rooms, but it's all indoors (no tunnel/outside pathway).

Foodstuffs: As everyone likely knows already, yes Panera bread is the most well-known option. But again, note that nearly everyone will congregate here (or take their food and gab&blab in the hotel lobby). You get 1 hour for lunch, and please NOTE for breaks/lunch, you MUST be on time – they will go ahead and log you in, starting your exam timer, even if you are not back seated in your seat. I was a few mins late for lunch on the 1st day and the staff kindly but firmly reminded me that I'd been logged in already; fortunately the exam had just started a min or two earlier so no real loss in exam time. Other options within reasonable walking distance for lunch include taco bell, mcdonalds, burger king, chiptotle, and a food court with foodcourt-type places (sbarros, etc) in the mall directly across from the hotel. For dinner, above + additional options include PF Changs and Maggiona's Italian, both of which are attached to the mall. There's also a Waffle House just a bit further than the rest. A 24hr Walgreens is just across from the hotel for water, drinks, snacks, (condoms), etc. Literally there's no need to worry about foodstuffs. You should definitely bring food/drink with you to consume on breaks, as it's unlikely you'll have enough time to run back to your room without feeling rushed (as I said, you don't want to be late).

Shuttle: runs every ½ & on the hour. I'd still call when your plane lands and let them know you're gonna need a shuttle, so that they can look for you, and ensure they make the rounds to get you. I didn't have to wait more than 10 mins. Shuttle free (I tipped driver $2).

Exam Facility: Clean, pleasant. Staff are generally courteous and kind. As has been said, the testing room can get rather cold so please bring a sweater/sweatshirt/jacket lest risk freezing your tits/nads off. You are allowed to use the restroom during exams (obviously your exam timer is still going), but only one girl/one guy at the time (likely to prevent folks from talking to each other in the bathroom). Computers/microscope are within cubicles, with dividers high enough that you can't see anyone's head when everyone is seated. They turn off the lights for the image portions of AP&CP, which is nice. Scopes are actually decent, slides decent quality as well. Chairs are comfortable. Plenty of leg room underneath. You ARE allowed to wear your watch, you CAN bring your own earplugs (they have some avail as well); obviously no cell/pagers allowed. If you do forget to bring the registration form you are mailed (says "please bring this with you to exam") no big deal, a photoID will suffice. You get more detailed scrutiny from airport security than at the board exam site. Once you show up for the 1st session they give you a photo ID which you then bring with you every time you return after a break/lunch. During breaks or while waiting outside exam room before they let you in, please oh god please just hang around in the designated area (just outside exam room). As I said, the testing center is simply several suites of a large office building. There are several other companies/offices nearby, whom I'm guessing have obviously complained about exam taking loitering & blabbing around in the hallways. You'll immediately recognize this aura of annoyance from the exam staff who will repeatedly tell you to NOT wander around, but as you can guess, during your exam I'm sure some tool of a fool will nonetheless wander, causing testing center folks to yell and scream, raising everyone's blood pressure and creating more overall tension to an already-tense situation. So please, be a good kid and do what your told and don't piss off the generally-pleasant staff. If you need to get away, go the restroom, go back downstairs to the lobby, whatever.

Actual exam: The single more important factor to passing the exam is adequate preparation time. While this may sound obvious and simple, it's true. If you're going to be on a hard rotation (surgpath, etc.) during the months approaching the exam, you'll need to start earlier. If you're on lighter rotations where you have a lot of time to study, you can start studying a bit later. While I can't give exact months/weeks needed to pass b/c everyone's depth of knowledge is obviously different (judge your study plans based on rotations accordingly), I'd roughly say that if you're gonna have little time to study, you might wanna start in Dec/Jan. for the spring exam, and perhaps March if you're gonna have more time to study beforehand...again these are just rough estimates. I wouldn't start TOO early though…you'll simply stress yourself out. Trust me on this. Yeah the exam seems like a total b*tch (actually, it is), but honestly AP/CP exam IS indeed doable, with adequate preparation. I talked to a lot of folks after the exam (& in the past several years) and it was blazingly obvious that the folks who were on surgpath and studied just a few weeks in advance for the AP/CP exam thinking they'd be okay felt like they got rocked (dunno if they ended up passing or not). While the boards often asks what seem like random ?s (many you simply can't study for), overall I found it pretty fair with a mix of VERY clear, simple straightforward, possibly even easy ?s, some that you really had to study well for but completely fair game and great testable ?s, and some that were rather esoteric. Just keep in mind you're not expected to get everyone question right, they boards folks know this. I sorta felt for several questions that they wanted you to be able to make a decent, educated guess vs. just plain dumb random guessing (which is okay too!). Nearly all questions were somehow related to pathology/labmedicine, really no f*cked up, bizarro type ?s, if you really think about it retrospectively (ex: an image you take a look at and are like wtf is that?, ends up actually being a classic (but perhaps outdated testing methodology) example of ____). Keep in mind that what YOU might think is bizarre could, to another test taker who came across this on rotations or in a book, could be straightforward or at least fair game. I can across a few ?s that others were like "wtf was that trying to show?, I didn't know if the image was a photomicrograph, a gross photo, a digitized image!!" etc etc….but for which I fortunately had come across in a lecture or during board prep review (several notable vice versa situations for many other ?s I couldn't even understand what was trying to be asked but where my colleagues knew what the intent was).

Everyone taking the exam the SAME day takes the SAME exam, but I'm really beginning to wonder (read: I actually believe this…I can't say why for certain reasons, but trust me) that there are different versions of the exam for a particular spring or fall session. Why? For one thing they make you enter a particular, unique exam code in addition to your name/ID# (on your badge that day) for EACH portion of AP/CP exam you take. Also, while I'd concur that general themes about a spring or fall exam session might be true (i.e. for EXAMPLE, "there were a lot of ____ [insert organ/body system] questions on my exam") I know for certain that folks who said X topic was definitely asked on an exam was most certainly NOT asked by a person taking the exam during a different day but still within the same spring (or fall) timeframe. More proof to use remembrances with the most halophilic grain of salt you can find and focus on knowing the overall material.

Now for more detailed info….(don't worry yaah, I'm not gonna say anything requiring you to censor my post…!~). While I also had, in addition to typical books folks have talked about (listed below), some remembrances which perhaps helped on a FEW questions for AP/CP exam, I really have to say that they you honestly don't need them, and perhaps (this happened to me on SEVERAL questions) remembrances will actually bias you into choosing the wrong answer. While the boards folks likely do repeat certain questions, they aren't stupid either and will swap out, alter/modify many ?s. I know many folks (myself included) that for every question remem's helped them get a ?s right, they also influenced them into getting a ? wrong (what I mean by this is the ? stem might sound similar, but answer choices will be different, or vice versa where answers are same but ? is different). I noticed this for the slide portion as well. All in all, if you're gonna use remem's then fine, use them (but cautiously do so please! Seriously once a question or answer is in your head it's nearly impossible to get it out...i honestly think having a fresh, clean slate of a mind for questions is overall better), but you can confidently pass boards without them. So what should you do then?

For AP: as has been said, the most important factor is learning AP while ON rotations. Many, many questions on the boards I recall simply from a typical signout/lecture…(how do you grade X tumor, key things in staging X tumor…prognosis for this X common tumor). You can fill in the blanks with resources such as the Lefkowich ? book (somewhat overkill, but it's good for prep for fellowship/job etc., MORE SO than for boards really!), reading or at least flipping through pics from Sternberg (I'm serious about this; I recall SEVERAL questions that initially seemed sorta oddball that were nearly identical to a pic from Sternberg, and not a random end-of-the-chapter pic either) or Rosai if you prefer. Scrolling over key topics on pathologyoutlines is another option, but requires patience and again may be overkill. Cyto studying is individual really – if you feel okay then no really particular emphasis is necessary (rotation experience may be enough). Other options include baby demay (again, reading/flipping through main chapters) or the holladay cyto book (again a bit overkill but could be useful if you're particular weak or paranoid; this book is used more often for cyto boards in my opinion so obviously MORE than sufficient for mere AP boards). Minimal basic science stuff, meaning first several chapters of robbins are unnecessary, but flipping through tables/pics of the rest of robbins couldn't hurt if you find it necessary, which are especially clear and concise. In my opinion, Henry should only be used as reference while studying (and perhaps in life as well!).

For CP: While the rule of learning CP while on rotations still applies, more detailed knowledge might be necessary (vs. AP application based type questions). I honestly think that if you treat the Mais book like you did for 1st aid for the boards (for step 1) and know it cold, you're pretty much set [note: I used the old mais and felt fine; new version has a few less errors but more text so decide if you prefer outline style first-aid type studying or text]. You'll likely need to supplement BB/TS with osler's/BBguys notes though in my opinion. Anything else you use is helpful to ease your fears and make you more confident both during and after the exam…but seriously may not be necessary.
Things I perused (did NOT go through in detail or in completeness, by FAR) were certain ASCP powerpoints and certain osler notes. And as I said, while I glanced through remem's, in retrospect I might have just avoided them altogether. Oh yeah, pathMD questions could also be helpful (short ?s on both AP/CP topics, with short descriptions). I didn't use these actually b/c I just didn't have enough time/energy but know folks who did and saw the websites/questions, and can vouch for the content. I just wanted to focus on MATERIAL vs questions, although I admit that I did buy and go through the mais compendium ? book which to be honest was good simply b/c it made me really really read mais in detail and memorize tables/facts etc, but really there were no direct questions from this book that showed up on boards. So if you can read through mais and learn on your own (which many folks CAN do) you might be better off focusing your precious time on something else, precluding redundancy. Managing your study time efficiently is the key.

Other random things: okay I should start off by saying that I wasn't born in the US but basically grew up (no accent), went to school here, and obviously went to college/medschool/residency in the US. Given that, I feel okay saying that I noticed that there were a fair # of FMGs taking the exam (also as an aside a few older folks, both FMG and nonFMG). Perhaps I'm being biased (and hopefully not racist/ageist) by saying this, but you have to kinda wonder if these folks account for a decent % of the folks that fail. Why am I making this partially blanket statement? While I don't have bonefide data to backup my statement and I'm certain may not always be true, I wonder if these folks really go through the same rigorous study habit/ritual that most of the other fresh-out-of training/still-in-training board exam takers go through. Also difficulty with English (more common for FMGs vs US grads) in my opinion hurts you for the board exam. I know a lot of FMGs that have/had trouble with Step exams b/c of this (actually I'd go so far to say that if you had trouble with the Step exams, you might wanna jack up studying for this one).
Yeah some knew ABOUT Mais or leftkowich or other KEY resources for example, but most I spoke with did not. And I wonder if they knew about the detail they had to know in order to pass. I also wonder what sorta experiences they had going through AP rotations, b/c it seemed ?s were definitely written by US grads with US grads in mind. While these mere speculations I have could apply to FMGs, I should and MUST note that I also know several US grads who didn't use Mais for example and also felt skeptical on the exam, so perhaps the limiting factor is the material itself and not the US location of the person's training. I dunno, maybe all this is pure hogwash but I wanted to just purge all my board experiences/perceptions/recommendations.

All in all, if you're an FMG but strong in English, allow ample time to study, know the material well (as discussed above, vs other good but potentially not as high-yield resources), and had a strong path training (i.e. learned applicable, diagnostic, useful things on rotations) you'll be fine. Similarly, if you're a US grad equally strong in English managed your study schedule in a mediocre fashion, didn't use/minimal used/inadequately used the material well, and had run of the mill training [note: I don't necessarily mean mid-tier/small institution…I know several big institutions that would qualify as mediocre in training], you might be sweating. Not saying you'll fail (remember this: recent 1st time pass %'s for AP/CP boards are like upper 80%s/mid-70%, repectively], but you might develop a gastric ulcer while waiting the month for your board results in the mail. As to emphasizing AP vs. CP, obviously if you're strong in one then by all means emphasize (i.e. don't simply ONLY study) the other. You'll be surprised how studying for AP actually helped in CP (and vice versa) [example: H&E pics of bugs on CP exam, BM aspirate images on AP exam].

Good luck to everyone else this spring and to all future path board exam takers.:luck:
 
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Gyric said:
I did not find the tests to be nearly as difficult as previous takers have described in this forum. I did put in months of studying but I wish I had not; either I knew it from my 4 years of training (or occasionally from medical school/graduate school training), I remembered it from the last 1-2 weeks of review, or I guessed.

Yaah, I interpret your sarcastic post to mean that you disagree with my opinion; would you care to elaborate?
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Because it's farcical. No one could possibly study 1-2 weeks for each of them and pass (unless we're talking about 20 hours per day for two solid weeks in someone with an excellent memory). When studying, you retain more information than you think. I do agree that experience during training is a large part of the exam. But to suggest that all it takes is a week or two of review is completely off base, unless you have a photographic memory or some talent like that. Now, spending a few months going over things before the last two weeks, and reserving the last two weeks for cramming is one way to study. But that doesn't mean all you studied for was 2 weeks.
 
What drove me batsh*t insane were the "oh so close!" questions that I should have known the answer to because I STUDIED them at some point. Still trying to get over those.

[EDIT]Being of pudding-brain, I didn't manage to get through SLUsagar's detailed post (sorry SLUsagar). But for those who are concerned that they can't look stuff up during breaks if they stayed elsewhere, I got around that by going to co-residents' rooms and the Intercontinental free Internet terminals.

I admire you all for your mental strength, but if I had a room that looked across the indoor atrium directly at Betsy Bennett's office, my aneurysm would have blown.
 
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deschutes said:
What drove me batsh*t insane were the "oh so close!" questions that I should have known the answer to because I STUDIED them at some point. Still trying to get over those.

[EDIT]Being of pudding-brain, I didn't manage to get through SLUsagar's detailed post (sorry SLUsagar). But for those who are concerned that they can't look stuff up during breaks if they stayed elsewhere, I got around that by going to co-residents' rooms and the Intercontinental free Internet terminals.

I admire you all for your mental strength, but if I had a room that looked across the indoor atrium directly at Betsy Bennett's office, my aneurysm would have blown.
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no worries, all love deschutes! yeah i purged all that on the long flight back home. but yeah, good point re:hotel. not THAT big a deal to make the walk in the morning over the testing site. actually i got up early both days to walk over to starbucks, and i must admit it was nice to get some fresh, non-air-freaking-conditioned-out-the-wazoo air. anyhow, it's over. let's rejoice.
 
Holy geezus Batman! I hope you finished a whole cigar (to celebrate finishing the exam) while typing all this out!

I agree with pretty much what you said.

Just wanted to re-emphasize 2 of SLU's points:

1) Everyone DOES take the same on a given exam day. However, another SDN poster and I did discuss (after we both took the exams on different days) what exam questions we saw...less than 10% of the questions were in common between our two exams.

2) Although I have no f'n clue as what the hell remembrances are, I can imagine that the ABP isn't stupid...they can definitely swap out answers or change things up (especially images) to mess with you. So these so called rememberings can, I imagine, cause a test taker to play psychological games with oneself. People who used these things called remembrances, with whom I discussed the exam, commented the same. Just study, and use the force and pick what you think is the best answer.

Finally, yes there were people who were far out of residency who took the exam the same day I did. One person (I recognized by looking at his name tag) was someone who finished in my program years ago and had developed a basic science career...curious as to why he decided to take AP boards now...I have my theories. Another person, I recognized from a lab I worked in several years ago...wasn't the most amicable chap but one of his co-workers told me that he had failed boards several times and therefore couldn't sign out. It's a small world.

SLUsagar said:
Okay, time for me to give my $0.02 on the recent AP/CP 2009 spring boards, intended for both those taking the exam this spring as well as future upcoming test takers.

Room: I still think staying AT the actual hotel (hotel intercontinental) is a better idea vs staying nearby and maybe saving a few bucks here and there. Note that wifi is FREE at this hotel (unsure about others, I know folks who got screwed over thinking they’d have free wifi as well). Trust me, it's nice to be able to go up to your room on breaks/after lunch to hang out, wash up, take a nice dump while reading Mais on the pot, chilling on your bed, whatever. Just nice to GET AWAY from everyone else, congregating around in the lobby and whatnot, chatting nonstop about what everyone thought of this one question vs that one question. ARgghh, so f*cking annoying. Granted yes, I also did debrief with my fellow classmates after each day, but still, I just didn’t wanna hear it from everyone else, in their frantic, obviously-nervous squeaky voices. We’re ALL nervous, so just chill the hell out, okay!. Other tidbits about the hotel (and NO, I’m not getting $$$ from them or trying to artificially promote them) are a notably nice and free gym, an outdoor pool, as well as nice rooms with an awesome desk to study on and a killer flatscreen tv and comfy bed to relax with). There’s an Illy expresso/coffee bar in the lobby and open early (starbucks outside is just across the street). The exam room is in an office building attached to and directly across from the rooms, but it’s all indoors (no tunnel/outside pathway).

Foodstuffs: As everyone likely knows already, yes Panera bread is the most well-known option. But again, note that nearly everyone will congregate here (or take their food and gab&blab in the hotel lobby). You get 1 hour for lunch, and please NOTE for breaks/lunch, you MUST be on time – they will go ahead and log you in, starting your exam timer, even if you are not back seated in your seat. I was a few mins late for lunch on the 1st day and the staff kindly but firmly reminded me that I’d been logged in already; fortunately the exam had just started a min or two earlier so no real loss in exam time. Other options within reasonable walking distance for lunch include taco bell, mcdonalds, burger king, chiptotle, and a food court with foodcourt-type places (sbarros, etc) in the mall directly across from the hotel. For dinner, above + additional options include PF Changs and Maggiona’s Italian, both of which are attached to the mall. There’s also a Waffle House just a bit further than the rest. A 24hr Walgreens is just across from the hotel for water, drinks, snacks, (condoms), etc. Literally there’s no need to worry about foodstuffs. You should definitely bring food/drink with you to consume on breaks, as it’s unlikely you’ll have enough time to run back to your room without feeling rushed (as I said, you don’t want to be late).

Shuttle: runs every ½ & on the hour. I’d still call when your plane lands and let them know you’re gonna need a shuttle, so that they can look for you, and ensure they make the rounds to get you. I didn’t have to wait more than 10 mins. Shuttle free (I tipped driver $2).

Exam Facility: Clean, pleasant. Staff are generally courteous and kind. As has been said, the testing room can get rather cold so please bring a sweater/sweatshirt/jacket lest risk freezing your tits/nads off. You are allowed to use the restroom during exams (obviously your exam timer is still going), but only one girl/one guy at the time (likely to prevent folks from talking to each other in the bathroom). Computers/microscope are within cubicles, with dividers high enough that you can’t see anyone’s head when everyone is seated. They turn off the lights for the image portions of AP&CP, which is nice. Scopes are actually decent, slides decent quality as well. Chairs are comfortable. Plenty of leg room underneath. You ARE allowed to wear your watch, you CAN bring your own earplugs (they have some avail as well); obviously no cell/pagers allowed. If you do forget to bring the registration form you are mailed (says “please bring this with you to exam”) no big deal, a photoID will suffice. You get more detailed scrutiny from airport security than at the board exam site. Once you show up for the 1st session they give you a photo ID which you then bring with you every time you return after a break/lunch. During breaks or while waiting outside exam room before they let you in, please oh god please just hang around in the designated area (just outside exam room). As I said, the testing center is simply several suites of a large office building. There are several other companies/offices nearby, whom I’m guessing have obviously complained about exam taking loitering & blabbing around in the hallways. You’ll immediately recognize this aura of annoyance from the exam staff who will repeatedly tell you to NOT wander around, but as you can guess, during your exam I’m sure some tool of a fool will nonetheless wander, causing testing center folks to yell and scream, raising everyone’s blood pressure and creating more overall tension to an already-tense situation. So please, be a good kid and do what your told and don’t piss off the generally-pleasant staff. If you need to get away, go the restroom, go back downstairs to the lobby, whatever.

Actual exam: The single more important factor to passing the exam is adequate preparation time. While this may sound obvious and simple, it’s true. If you’re going to be on a hard rotation (surgpath, etc.) during the months approaching the exam, you’ll need to start earlier. If you’re on lighter rotations where you have a lot of time to study, you can start studying a bit later. While I can’t give exact months/weeks needed to pass b/c everyone’s depth of knowledge is obviously different (judge your study plans based on rotations accordingly), I’d roughly say that if you’re gonna have little time to study, you might wanna start in Dec/Jan. for the spring exam, and perhaps March if you’re gonna have more time to study beforehand...again these are just rough estimates. I wouldn’t start TOO early though…you’ll simply stress yourself out. Trust me on this. Yeah the exam seems like a total b*tch (actually, it is), but honestly AP/CP exam IS indeed doable, with adequate preparation. I talked to a lot of folks after the exam (& in the past several years) and it was blazingly obvious that the folks who were on surgpath and studied just a few weeks in advance for the AP/CP exam thinking they’d be okay felt like they got rocked (dunno if they ended up passing or not). While the boards often asks what seem like random ?s (many you simply can’t study for), overall I found it pretty fair with a mix of VERY clear, simple straightforward, possibly even easy ?s, some that you really had to study well for but completely fair game and great testable ?s, and some that were rather esoteric. Just keep in mind you’re not expected to get everyone question right, they boards folks know this. I sorta felt for several questions that they wanted you to be able to make a decent, educated guess vs. just plain dumb random guessing (which is okay too!). Nearly all questions were somehow related to pathology/labmedicine, really no f*cked up, bizarro type ?s, if you really think about it retrospectively (ex: an image you take a look at and are like wtf is that?, ends up actually being a classic (but perhaps outdated testing methodology) example of ____). Keep in mind that what YOU might think is bizarre could, to another test taker who came across this on rotations or in a book, could be straightforward or at least fair game. I can across a few ?s that others were like “wtf was that trying to show?, I didn’t know if the image was a photomicrograph, a gross photo, a digitized image!!” etc etc….but for which I fortunately had come across in a lecture or during board prep review (several notable vice versa situations for many other ?s I couldn’t even understand what was trying to be asked but where my colleagues knew what the intent was).

Everyone taking the exam the SAME day takes the SAME exam, but I’m really beginning to wonder (read: I actually believe this…I can’t say why for certain reasons, but trust me) that there are different versions of the exam for a particular spring or fall session. Why? For one thing they make you enter a particular, unique exam code in addition to your name/ID# (on your badge that day) for EACH portion of AP/CP exam you take. Also, while I’d concur that general themes about a spring or fall exam session might be true (i.e. for EXAMPLE, “there were a lot of ____ [insert organ/body system] questions on my exam”) I know for certain that folks who said X topic was definitely asked on an exam was most certainly NOT asked by a person taking the exam during a different day but still within the same spring (or fall) timeframe. More proof to use remembrances with the most halophilic grain of salt you can find and focus on knowing the overall material.

Now for more detailed info….(don’t worry yaah, I’m not gonna say anything requiring you to censor my post…!~). While I also had, in addition to typical books folks have talked about (listed below), some remembrances which perhaps helped on a FEW questions for AP/CP exam, I really have to say that they you honestly don’t need them, and perhaps (this happened to me on SEVERAL questions) remembrances will actually bias you into choosing the wrong answer. While the boards folks likely do repeat certain questions, they aren’t stupid either and will swap out, alter/modify many ?s. I know many folks (myself included) that for every question remem’s helped them get a ?s right, they also influenced them into getting a ? wrong (what I mean by this is the ? stem might sound similar, but answer choices will be different, or vice versa where answers are same but ? is different). I noticed this for the slide portion as well. All in all, if you’re gonna use remem’s then fine, use them (but cautiously do so please! Seriously once a question or answer is in your head it’s nearly impossible to get it out...i honestly think having a fresh, clean slate of a mind for questions is overall better), but you can confidently pass boards without them. So what should you do then?

For AP: as has been said, the most important factor is learning AP while ON rotations. Many, many questions on the boards I recall simply from a typical signout/lecture…(how do you grade X tumor, key things in staging X tumor…prognosis for this X common tumor). You can fill in the blanks with resources such as the Lefkowich ? book (somewhat overkill, but it’s good for prep for fellowship/job etc., MORE SO than for boards really!), reading or at least flipping through pics from Sternberg (I’m serious about this; I recall SEVERAL questions that initially seemed sorta oddball that were nearly identical to a pic from Sternberg, and not a random end-of-the-chapter pic either) or Rosai if you prefer. Scrolling over key topics on pathologyoutlines is another option, but requires patience and again may be overkill. Cyto studying is individual really – if you feel okay then no really particular emphasis is necessary (rotation experience may be enough). Other options include baby demay (again, reading/flipping through main chapters) or the holladay cyto book (again a bit overkill but could be useful if you’re particular weak or paranoid; this book is used more often for cyto boards in my opinion so obviously MORE than sufficient for mere AP boards). Minimal basic science stuff, meaning first several chapters of robbins are unnecessary, but flipping through tables/pics of the rest of robbins couldn’t hurt if you find it necessary, which are especially clear and concise. In my opinion, Henry should only be used as reference while studying (and perhaps in life as well!).

For CP: While the rule of learning CP while on rotations still applies, more detailed knowledge might be necessary (vs. AP application based type questions). I honestly think that if you treat the Mais book like you did for 1st aid for the boards (for step 1) and know it cold, you’re pretty much set [note: I used the old mais and felt fine; new version has a few less errors but more text so decide if you prefer outline style first-aid type studying or text]. You’ll likely need to supplement BB/TS with osler’s/BBguys notes though in my opinion. Anything else you use is helpful to ease your fears and make you more confident both during and after the exam…but seriously may not be necessary.
Things I perused (did NOT go through in detail or in completeness, by FAR) were certain ASCP powerpoints and certain osler notes. And as I said, while I glanced through remem’s, in retrospect I might have just avoided them altogether. Oh yeah, pathMD questions could also be helpful (short ?s on both AP/CP topics, with short descriptions). I didn’t use these actually b/c I just didn’t have enough time/energy but know folks who did and saw the websites/questions, and can vouch for the content. I just wanted to focus on MATERIAL vs questions, although I admit that I did buy and go through the mais compendium ? book which to be honest was good simply b/c it made me really really read mais in detail and memorize tables/facts etc, but really there were no direct questions from this book that showed up on boards. So if you can read through mais and learn on your own (which many folks CAN do) you might be better off focusing your precious time on something else, precluding redundancy. Managing your study time efficiently is the key.

Other random things: okay I should start off by saying that I wasn’t born in the US but basically grew up (no accent), went to school here, and obviously went to college/medschool/residency in the US. Given that, I feel okay saying that I noticed that there were a fair # of FMGs taking the exam (also as an aside a few older folks, both FMG and nonFMG). Perhaps I’m being biased (and hopefully not racist/ageist) by saying this, but you have to kinda wonder if these folks account for a decent % of the folks that fail. Why am I making this partially blanket statement? While I don’t have bonefide data to backup my statement and I’m certain may not always be true, I wonder if these folks really go through the same rigorous study habit/ritual that most of the other fresh-out-of training/still-in-training board exam takers go through. Also difficulty with English (more common for FMGs vs US grads) in my opinion hurts you for the board exam. I know a lot of FMGs that have/had trouble with Step exams b/c of this (actually I’d go so far to say that if you had trouble with the Step exams, you might wanna jack up studying for this one).
Yeah some knew ABOUT Mais or leftkowich or other KEY resources for example, but most I spoke with did not. And I wonder if they knew about the detail they had to know in order to pass. I also wonder what sorta experiences they had going through AP rotations, b/c it seemed ?s were definitely written by US grads with US grads in mind. While these mere speculations I have could apply to FMGs, I should and MUST note that I also know several US grads who didn’t use Mais for example and also felt skeptical on the exam, so perhaps the limiting factor is the material itself and not the US location of the person’s training. I dunno, maybe all this is pure hogwash but I wanted to just purge all my board experiences/perceptions/recommendations.

All in all, if you’re an FMG but strong in English, allow ample time to study, know the material well (as discussed above, vs other good but potentially not as high-yield resources), and had a strong path training (i.e. learned applicable, diagnostic, useful things on rotations) you’ll be fine. Similarly, if you’re a US grad equally strong in English managed your study schedule in a mediocre fashion, didn’t use/minimal used/inadequately used the material well, and had run of the mill training [note: I don’t necessarily mean mid-tier/small institution…I know several big institutions that would qualify as mediocre in training], you might be sweating. Not saying you’ll fail (remember this: recent 1st time pass %’s for AP/CP boards are like upper 80%s/mid-70%, repectively], but you might develop a gastric ulcer while waiting the month for your board results in the mail. As to emphasizing AP vs. CP, obviously if you're strong in one then by all means emphasize (i.e. don't simply ONLY study) the other. You'll be surprised how studying for AP actually helped in CP (and vice versa) [example: H&E pics of bugs on CP exam, BM aspirate images on AP exam].

Good luck to everyone else this spring and to all future path board exam takers.:luck:
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If you board takers had to do it all over again, what would you have done differently?
 
KeratinPearls said:
If you board takers had to do it all over again, what would you have done differently?
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can we answer that after we find out we pass??? *bites nails*

i stayed at the intercontinental too. i liked it. i had schlepped my three holy grail study binders with me.... why?? and i decided to ship the stupid things back instead of lug them through three airports like i did on the way there. the staff was very nice and took care of it for me. being able to run upstairs, check email, breathe was nice between sessions too. oh yeah one thing i would not do again is have indian food the night before. that + exam nerves = very bad poo. again thank god i was staying there so i just just run up to have the runs.

slu, i agree about the ratio of older and/or obviously fmgs, just didn't want to be the first to come out and say so.....

What drove me batsh*t insane were the "oh so close!" questions that I should have known the answer to because I STUDIED them at some point. Still trying to get over those. <--- Deschutes I could have written this myself. stupid, stupid, stupid little factoids that i couldn't get to stick.
 
deschutes said:
But for those who are concerned that they can't look stuff up during breaks if they stayed elsewhere, I got around that by going to co-residents' rooms and the Intercontinental free Internet terminals.
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Personally, I would not concern oneself with looking things up during breaks. I would finish all studying the day before. If you want to remind yourself of a few key things that you always seem to forget (like how long someone is deferred from donating blood for certain things) then that's fine. But don't worry so much about looking things up that were on an early part of the test - they are unlikely to show up in the same form later on. I only had one exception to that - which was a microscopic high-power image of a certain parasite that showed up THREE times combined on AP and CP exams. I didn't know what it was, so I picked a different answer all three times, hopefully I got it right one of those times 😳

I have recommended to people that they stay at the embassy suites down the street - no one who has done so has regretted it, but then again it obviously isn't for everyone. Some people just have to be close to their room. Personally, I enjoyed the brief walk in the mornings and the large free breakfast buffet they had. Plus, there were fewer people running around with binders and textbooks. You are playing with fire if there is a thunderstorm during the 10 minutes you have to walk over, I guess.
 
Also, the q30min Embassy Suites shuttle drivers will hustle if you let them know you have to be there by such and such time.

I took the shuttle for CP morning because of my trolleybag full of books. I left my bags with the bellhop at the Intercontinental. Caught the 4:30pm Intercontinental shuttle for a 6pm flight, but previously someone caught a 5pm shuttle and made it for the same flight easy. These are all airport hotels.

Keep some $1's handy!
 
The paper says that we can't bring cell phones to the exam. So did u guys leave ur cell phones @ the hotel? I'm also not staying @ the intercontinental- so i def. would need my cell to call a cab afterward.
 
yaah said:
Personally, I would not concern oneself with looking things up during breaks. I would finish all studying the day before. If you want to remind yourself of a few key things that you always seem to forget (like how long someone is deferred from donating blood for certain things) then that's fine. But don't worry so much about looking things up that were on an early part of the test - they are unlikely to show up in the same form later on. I only had one exception to that - which was a microscopic high-power image of a certain parasite that showed up THREE times combined on AP and CP exams. I didn't know what it was, so I picked a different answer all three times, hopefully I got it right one of those times 😳
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how funny yaah. yeah, i didn't really look up stuff at the break and i agree overall though that it's likely better to just take a breather, have some snacks, empty your bowels, and get your mind off the exam. although i do have to admit that i had the EXACT same question show up on parts 1 & 3 (written, practical) CP boards. I'm almost certain i missed it (management Q), but i nonetheless picked the same answer both times. Odd occurrence, such a repeat.

and yes, to answer another dude's question: you can bring a cellphone with you to the exam site, but it's gotta be OFF and you simply store it in lil' cubicle-type things on the entry desk as you go by to sit in your assigned seat.
 
SLUsagar said:
and yes, to answer another dude's question: you can bring a cellphone with you to the exam site, but it's gotta be OFF and you simply store it in lil' cubicle-type things on the entry desk as you go by to sit in your assigned seat.
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Can you imagine if someone's cell started going off during the test?! I think I would have gone ape on the spot. Thankfully, it seemed to be the one time everyone turned them off or left them in their rooms.

Conversely, I did enjoy the sounds of the person screaming on the street below for a good solid minute during the slide portion of my AP exam*. I was glad someone was able to express their frustrations, because I sure as hell felt like screaming too.

*Yes, I know we can use earplugs. I hate them and would rather listen to the person screaming below.
 
deschutes said:
What drove me batsh*t insane were the "oh so close!" questions that I should have known the answer to because I STUDIED them at some point. Still trying to get over those.

[EDIT]Being of pudding-brain, I didn't manage to get through SLUsagar's detailed post (sorry SLUsagar). But for those who are concerned that they can't look stuff up during breaks if they stayed elsewhere, I got around that by going to co-residents' rooms and the Intercontinental free Internet terminals.

I admire you all for your mental strength, but if I had a room that looked across the indoor atrium directly at Betsy Bennett's office, my aneurysm would have blown.
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I just got back from those 2 miserable days of ABP certification hell.... I agree with SLUagar entirely about the exam, studying and hotel. I too feel the pain with the "oh so close" questions that deshutes was talking about.

Re. the test.... i studied the hell out of CP and found it somewhat managable (especially the imaged based section.....study the color plates in kohnemann...they helped on a bunch of questions).

I was amazed, however, at what wasn't on my exam. I didn't think there was all that much heme, virtually no cytogenetics and molecular except for like 2 easy questions (All those freakin translocations for soft tissue and all those prognostics for aml/all, etc etc, and not a one showed up on my exam), a bunch of coag, TMS, and damn chemistry (many of the chem ques were easy and many were hard... I thought chem was way over represented on my exam).

I haven't seen anyone post about the quality of the histology in the AP glass slide portion of the exam. They're horrible!!!.... I hope they take some of my 2200 bucks and get some decently processed slides. I thought that at least 10-15 of them were only stained with eosin. Maybe I've been pampered at my program (we have perfectionist atttending in charge of surg path) though.

Anyway, I'm glad this sh** is over with (hopefully for the next 10 years). All the residents in my program that took these exams went to Berns steakhouse and splurged a little after the second day. I highly recommend it!!! The steak and wine, outstanding, the dessert, awesome, and the ambiance superb.
 
Patrick O said:
I haven't seen anyone post about the quality of the histology in the AP glass slide portion of the exam. They're horrible!!!.... I hope they take some of my 2200 bucks and get some decently processed slides. I thought that at least 10-15 of them were only stained with eosin. Maybe I've been pampered at my program (we have perfectionist atttending in charge of surg path) though.
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OMG Pat, that's so true! There was no nuclear detail in most of those slides! Its almost an advantage if you come from a program where your histotechs are terrible 😕

Good luck to those who are taking the test in the coming weeks!
 
smellycat said:
OMG Pat, that's so true! There was no nuclear detail in most of those slides! Its almost an advantage if you come from a program where your histotechs are terrible 😕

Good luck to those who are taking the test in the coming weeks!
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I have heard things like "fixed in urine and faded to hell". YMMV.
 
I had a slide with a gigantic hole in the middle...it must have been the absolute last level they got out of that block.
 
What happens if you pass AP but fail CP? Do you have to take both exams again?

I was under the impression that if you pass AP and fail CP, that you are AP boarded but not CP boarded, you could then re apply and take CP again at another time...

I know you have to pass all parts of the AP exam in order to pass overall (same with CP), but wasn't aware you may need to pass both exams in order to be "boarded."

Any knowledge about this?
 
That's a confusing part of the ABPath website - I ended up not trying to figure it out because I passed, but I was thinking about it for awhile - I think (but I may be wrong) what happens if you fail one is that you only have to take the one that you failed again. And you are not issued a certification certificate until you pass both (because you had applied for combined AP/CP certification). However, if you do fail one of them you can apply for a certificate in ONLY the one that you passed. But you have to relinquish your claims to the combined certification.

ok - that's basically right - see this link http://www.abpath.org/BICandQualComb.htm
 
I know this has been rehashed on here countless times but in order to pass AP, for example, you must pass both the written and practical.
Would the practical for AP be considered the 75 question slide test by itself or does it also include the afternoon images (gross, cytology, etc.)? I may still be in boards hangover but I believe we had at least 3 sections in AP and 4 sections in CP. Which ones are practical and which ones are written?
What cutoff point do you believe the ABP uses for passing and failing? I guessed it would be about 60% however other residents at the exam believed it was around 50%?
Finally the best piece of advice on here is post-exam make a reservation for Bern's steakhouse. Do the tour and head to the dessert room. It is expensive but after that 2 day butt kicking we all deserve it!
 
Patrick O said:
Thanks for the input..... mine is next mon/tues. I am also AP centric... and most of my time spent studying has been for the CP portion. I'm going over the compendium again this week and getting frustrated at all the stuff I've forgotten. For CP, I used the compendium with companion, bbguy notes, most of the osler CP notes (i went to the review course too), kohnemann plates, ASCP powerpoints (only some of the topics, in particular that mammouth micro ppt because I suck at micro).
For AP I used Leftkowitz, Cibas images (baby), Holladay (I got bored with this book halfway through using it), Dr. Sinard's Yale notes, some of the Washington manual, Robbins and Rosai images, and those Hopkins cases.

Most of my attendings said to "focus on the CP, as long as you go to a decent program the AP shouldn't be a problem". Man, I hope this is true. It's good to hear though that it seems that everyone feels like crap after the CP exam, at least we're all in the same boat. I wonder how those CP only residents feel after taking the CP board. We had one in our program a couple years ago and I'm convinced she just studied for the board her entire 3rd year, and read all of Henry.
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Actually, the AP written was the hardest thing for me; I knew the three research questions in my field of research, knew that no one else in the room could answer them, and failed to know the answers to 999 specialized research questions. Take the Osler course twice, once one year before the thing, the second time six months before it. Learn those six first chapters of Robbins cold (they may be 8 or 5 chapters today, but you know which ones). To pass the AP visual part, make sure you are actually reading slides for three months before the exam. Do not do clinical pathology. CP has radically changed, but one thing likely has not. To pass the transfusion part, 30 days before the exam read that little AABB tech manual each day. The first day will take you about twenty minutes. The last day will take you five minutes; you will ace 80% of the transfusion medicine questions that way.
 
Dermbound00 said:
What cutoff point do you believe the ABP uses for passing and failing? I guessed it would be about 60% however other residents at the exam believed it was around 50%?
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The ABP website says:

"All of the ABP examinations given in 2008 were graded using the criterion-referenced method."

Wikipedia explains:

A criterion-referenced test is one that provides for translating test scores into a statement about the behavior to be expected of a person with that score or their relationship to a specified subject matter. Most tests and quizzes written by school teachers are criterion-referenced tests. The objective is simply to see whether or not the student has learned the material.

A common misunderstanding regarding the term is the meaning of criterion. Many, if not most, criterion-referenced tests involve a cutscore, where the examinee passes if their score exceeds the cutscore and fails if it does not (often called a mastery test). The criterion is not the cutscore; the criterion is the domain of subject matter that the test is designed to assess. For example, the criterion may be "Students should be able to correctly add two single-digit numbers," and the cutscore may be that students should correctly answer a minimum of 80% of the questions to pass.

The criterion-referenced interpretation of a test score identifies the relationship to the subject matter. In the case of a mastery test, this does mean identifying whether the examinee has "mastered" a specified level of the subject matter by comparing their score to the cutscore. However, not all criterion-referenced tests have a cutscore, and the score can simply refer to a person's standing on the subject domain. [2] Again, the ACT is an example of this; there is no cutscore, it simply is an assessment of the student's knowledge of high-school level subject matter.

Because of this common misunderstanding, criterion-referenced tests have also been called standards-based assessments by some education agencies,[3] as students are assessed with regards to standards that define what they "should" know, as defined by the state.[4]
 
yaah said:
Well, the AABB tech manual is pretty big now - not sure how big it used to be.
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Not the Tech Manual, the little standards manual that changes every few years. The questions you will be asked will be things like "what temperature . . ." If you memorize the standards by going through them as recommended, that part of the exam will be the easiest of them all.
 
Pathjob said:
Actually, the AP written was the hardest thing for me; I knew the three research questions in my field of research, knew that no one else in the room could answer them, and failed to know the answers to 999 specialized research questions. Take the Osler course twice, once one year before the thing, the second time six months before it. Learn those six first chapters of Robbins cold (they may be 8 or 5 chapters today, but you know which ones). To pass the AP visual part, make sure you are actually reading slides for three months before the exam. Do not do clinical pathology. CP has radically changed, but one thing likely has not. To pass the transfusion part, 30 days before the exam read that little AABB tech manual each day. The first day will take you about twenty minutes. The last day will take you five minutes; you will ace 80% of the transfusion medicine questions that way.
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A. You do not need to know the first 8 chapters of Robbins cold.... I had less than 5 (if that) questions that were from this section of Robbins. You cannot know those chapters cold anyway... there is a ton of detailed information in that part of Robbins...based on the exam I took the effort one would put into knowing all that material has a low yield. My problem with the AP exam was the slide section where I know I made a couple of stupid mistakes..... I am beating myself up (although the passage of time is helping me to forget about it) because I know that I am and was trained better than that. I spent a lot of time with some of the slides which hurt me later in that portion of the test because I had to fly through some of them to get done (I wish they would just scan 1 profile on the virtual biopsy section). I agree one should read slides in the month before the exam. As far as the Osler course..at least for AP... I wish I would have stayed in my hotel room and studied.... I didn't think it was all that good. CP... ok.... AP.... I sat there and was saying to myself... if you don't know this by now there's a problem...I wish they would have approached this course like "here is how the board will try to trick you on ---", not this is a ---.

B. You cannot, under any circumstances, neglect to study CP for months before this exam.... the information falls out of your head quickly. I assume you mean don't do a clinical pathology rotation for the 3 mos before the exam (in my opinion this is a mistake because often CP rotations yield the most free time to hide and study).... because if you don't study CP during these months you are screwed. Although I didn't read the tech manual....I found that the Osler notes and the compendium were more than adequate for the TMS questions on the exam.
 
Pathjob said:
Not the Tech Manual, the little standards manual that changes every few years. The questions you will be asked will be things like "what temperature . . ." If you memorize the standards by going through them as recommended, that part of the exam will be the easiest of them all.
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Ah, I see what you mean. That is a good point. Although recently the bbguy.org website has become the best way to study for CP boards, blood bank portion. He summarizes things quite nicely and includes lots of tricks and random facts that you otherwise might ignore that show up on questions.

As for AP, I think the importance of Robbins in the exam has faded over the years. There is still a surprising amount on there (particularly gross pathology and hereditary stuff). I would definitely be familiar with Robbins for AP boards. Even if it is just looking through it at the tables and figures and gross images.
 
BigD said:
The ABP website says:

"All of the ABP examinations given in 2008 were graded using the criterion-referenced method."

Wikipedia explains:

A criterion-referenced test is one that provides for translating test scores into a statement about the behavior to be expected of a person with that score or their relationship to a specified subject matter. Most tests and quizzes written by school teachers are criterion-referenced tests. The objective is simply to see whether or not the student has learned the material.

A common misunderstanding regarding the term is the meaning of criterion. Many, if not most, criterion-referenced tests involve a cutscore, where the examinee passes if their score exceeds the cutscore and fails if it does not (often called a mastery test). The criterion is not the cutscore; the criterion is the domain of subject matter that the test is designed to assess. For example, the criterion may be "Students should be able to correctly add two single-digit numbers," and the cutscore may be that students should correctly answer a minimum of 80% of the questions to pass.

The criterion-referenced interpretation of a test score identifies the relationship to the subject matter. In the case of a mastery test, this does mean identifying whether the examinee has "mastered" a specified level of the subject matter by comparing their score to the cutscore. However, not all criterion-referenced tests have a cutscore, and the score can simply refer to a person's standing on the subject domain. [2] Again, the ACT is an example of this; there is no cutscore, it simply is an assessment of the student's knowledge of high-school level subject matter.

Because of this common misunderstanding, criterion-referenced tests have also been called standards-based assessments by some education agencies,[3] as students are assessed with regards to standards that define what they "should" know, as defined by the state.[4]
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This is probably not true but I heard that in order to pass you had to meet an expected score in each category of the exam (i.e., you have to do well in micro, heme, BB/TM) in order to pass. You cannot score thru the roof in one area to make up for deficiencies in another. Has anyone heard this? And if so is it true or a bunch of BS?
 
The board has set a three digit cut off score in order to pass the exam.

You have to pass the two parts, written and practical and score above the cut off in each part. Failure in both or either part means failure in the entire exam. If the cut off is 500 and you pass the written by scoring 501 but failed the practical by scoring 499, you fail the entire exam.

We don't know for sure what percentage of correct answer the three digit score is equivalent to. I asked the proctors in the exam center and they refused to answer me. It can be 50-55%, I assume. It is the same way of the USMLE scoring, where the percentage of your correct answers is converted to a 2-digit and 3-digit scores. As we all remember, 75 was the 2-digit cut off.

It is not true that you have to pass each discipline in order to pass the exam. You can do well on some disciplines but poorly on others and still pass the exam as long as your OVERALL score is at or above the cut off 3-digit score that board sets.

Regarding the CP, the topics are evenly distributed over the major disciplines (CH, TM, HEM, and MICRO). Minor disciplines, which include (MOLECULAR & CYTOGENETICS, ADMINISTRATIVE, BIOINFORMATICS) have less number of questions than the major disciplines. MICRO and HEM mainly appear on the image section of the practical part (because there are almost no images for the TM, CH and others) but the rest mainly appear on the analytical section of the practical part. Your COMBINED performance on both the image and anayltical sections determines your score on the practical part. If you do poorly on the minor disciplines (which the majority do), you still can easily pass, provided that you've done well on the major areas. However, perfoming poorly on more than one major area can have a greater impact.


The information above is obtained from the score reports of those who fail the exams (it doesn't appear on the score reports of those who pass).
 
So to summerize the above


AP

Written part

practical part
a. images
b. slides and virtual microscopy


CP

Written part

practical part
a. images (mainly HEM, MICRO)
b. anaytical (tables/graphs/calculations) (mainly CH, TM and other minor disciplines)



The cut off was 500 for EACH part, as appeared in the report of those who fail.
 
The written part is just (text) questions...you don't write anything! The questions are just "text"..i.e. no image, no graphs...etc. Most of the questions are mainly of knowledge-type. Most of examinees pass this part.

The practical part is the problem!!.
The image section is considered relatively easier than than the analytical part...if you know what appears on the image (parasite, growth medium, blood smears for both neoplastic and non-neoplastic hematologic diseases..etc), you can directly jump to the answer. If you don't know what is on the image, guess and move...so it is "spot diagnosis" or "diagnosis at glance"...

The anaytical part is harder and more time consuming as you have to analyze the data on the tables/graphs/gels or do calculations. Therefore, make sure that you do your best on the image section. In your preparation, get HEM and MICRO atlases and review them carefully. The remembrances and list of RISE topics/Questions (1995-2009) should be used as references when using any atlas or image book.

The Board stopped the so-called group-performance scoring..which means the cut-off score changes with group performance..if the exam is difficult, the performance is low and the cut-off is lowered and vice versa. This explains why the passing rate of the board has dropped significantly in the recent years (mainly the three past years).The cut-off score of 500 doesn't necessarily mean 50% of correct answers..... We are also not sure if this cut off score is the same for all the exams or all the sessions..I believe it is done in a way similar to the USMLE.
 
Patho2009 said:
The board has set a three digit cut off score in order to pass the exam.

You have to pass the two parts, written and practical and score above the cut off in each part. Failure in both or either part means failure in the entire exam. If the cut off is 500 and you pass the written by scoring 501 but failed the practical by scoring 499, you fail the entire exam.

We don't know for sure what percentage of correct answer the three digit score is equivalent to. I asked the proctors in the exam center and they refused to answer me. It can be 50-55%, I assume. It is the same way of the USMLE scoring, where the percentage of your correct answers is converted to a 2-digit and 3-digit scores. As we all remember, 75 was the 2-digit cut off.

It is not true that you have to pass each discipline in order to pass the exam. You can do well on some disciplines but poorly on others and still pass the exam as long as your OVERALL score is at or above the cut off 3-digit score that board sets.

Regarding the CP, the topics are evenly distributed over the major disciplines (CH, TM, HEM, and MICRO). Minor disciplines, which include (MOLECULAR & CYTOGENETICS, ADMINISTRATIVE, BIOINFORMATICS) have less number of questions than the major disciplines. MICRO and HEM mainly appear on the image section of the practical part (because there are almost no images for the TM, CH and others) but the rest mainly appear on the analytical section of the practical part. Your COMBINED performance on both the image and anayltical sections determines your score on the practical part. If you do poorly on the minor disciplines (which the majority do), you still can easily pass, provided that you've done well on the major areas. However, perfoming poorly on more than one major area can have a greater impact.


The information above is obtained from the score reports of those who fail the exams (it doesn't appear on the score reports of those who pass).
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks. I was looking for that info last year when I was studying - no one seemed to know.
 
They posted some of these info on their web site. They mentioned the 3-digit score and the fact that they have discontinued the group performance scoring. I also looked at the score report of a failer and found the 500 cut off (he scored below 500) and I saw how they split the disciplines of CP on the report.
 
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