BOWWLING TOURNAMENT GAME THREAD

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violetvett said:
I meant as in a long, detailed, ISO-type specific post. While I realize wolves will eventually do this as well, anyone who writes a long post (especially early on) is going to be analyzed the next day. Wolves usually want to avoid any analysis, so it doesn't make sense for a wolf to put themselves out there so early on when their only goal right now is to successfully survive the day.
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I have seen wolves do ISOs as early as day one. It's important to read a post thoroughly and decide if you agree with it, or at least you see it as likely to come from a village perspective (or unlikely to come from a wolf perspective). Length of a post alone is rarely AI.
violetvett said:
Wolves instead will likely choose someone (maybe with PR vibes) and then tack some reasoning on there so they don't look too suspicious. Long and short posts attract attention, medium-sized ones don't.
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All posts need attention.
 
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zuriburi said:
But my current biggest suspicions are of viscernable… I think this might be noob bias but true looking into am and concluding that they’re always antagonistic without collecting precise data points and examples feels like a totally reasonable thing to do, and I feel like the way that vis needled at that behavior while also claiming to be going easy on true for being a noob feels like some shady attempts to cast legitimate detective work as nooby bumbling. I know some other people have mentioned suspicions and hesitancies with those suspicions so I’d love to know what others’ rationales are, but for me…
unyeet truenamer
yeet viscernable
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Interesting take, I didn't catch that
 
Confession: definitely skimmed the thread when I got back from the shelter. You guys post so much more than we did in noob game except for right up by vote close. Couple things jumped out at me:
I angry-reacted the one post about fluff being suspicious mostly as a joke since I'd just posted previously that I always felt like fluff would be village since they were noob game village mayor. More of like a "how dare you!" than a genuine angry react. I'm open to the fluff as wolf angle but I'm not totally sure I sure it yet. I'm having trouble to committing to anyone right now since there's so little information and I'm worried about misyeeting a villager.
Also, bluestoat was NOT a wolf at all in the noob game. I think I saw that mentioned somewhere. Stoat was a village lie detector, was killed, and then resurrected as a village post restrictor, but she was never a wolf or even 3p. As far as I know we have no wolfy bluestoat behavior to compare at the moment.
 
Aprilthearab said:
True village lean, seems genuine, good nooby villager. Stoat neutral, doesn't seem all that different from the last game but I don't have a real reason to lean village yet
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I’m finding myself nodding along to a lot of your posts and that scares me given I think I’ve correctly read you like one time
 
samac said:
Oh **** I forgot Kal pressure voted Ivy before octopus.
@OctopusDoctorpus/mayo why did you feel like ivy was the one to pressure with there already being a pressure vote there?
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I figured it's best to apply more pressure to illicit a response and then revoke after the response. If several people have 1 vote I don't think it would really be all that persuading.
 
WorthlessOxygen said:
Welp 5 more pages to catch up on when I get home but my thoughts from yesterday: your interaction with Mel was about the only thing that stuck out. Not sure what to make of it though as neither felt necessarily wolf or village. Other than that, most of the conversation was jokes or references to past games so I don't have much to go off of.
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What made her interaction with Mel stick out but not her interaction with genny?
 
OctopusDoctorpus said:
I figured it's best to apply more pressure to illicit a response and then revoke after the response. If several people have 1 vote I don't think it would really be all that persuading.
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This is actually an incorrect application of a pressure vote. Pressure is to force someone to get themselves out of the POE or die trying, not simply appear on the thread (unless you think the appearance itself is extremely villagey).

Can I still hear if you have any village reads?
 
samac said:
I disagree with moving people village for quote posts.
While some ISOs show real substance and can make me lean someone village, I think it can sometimes be easier to latch on to a few sketchy posts as a wolf to get the train rolling on a misyeet and you just look like a misguided villager. Powerwolfing my friend. Wolfing isn’t all just hiding in the shadows.
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Animal Midwife said:
I have seen wolves do ISOs as early as day one. It's important to read a post thoroughly and decide if you agree with it, or at least you see it as likely to come from a village perspective (or unlikely to come from a wolf perspective). Length of a post alone is rarely AI.

All posts need attention.
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Yep, I agree with this. I am NOT completely disregarding alley as a wolf (hence the "for now"), but as of this moment in time alley is villagey to me. I'm not going to bring up the fact alley wrote a long post later in the game as "hard proof" alley isn't a wolf. Until there's actual evidence/dead bodies though, alley (FOR NOW) is village-leaning to me, as I both understand her logic and she's drawing attention to herself by writing up an ISO early on.

And yes, obviously all posts should have attention(?) I'm just trying to explain what I think a wolf's logic would be. Why would you think I'm saying otherwise?
 
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Animal Midwife said:
Yes and also her saying she's been wrong more than six months in a row. I'm still open to seeing how the rest of the cycle goes, but that bothered me.
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The first part I struggle to understand. If genny’s a villager and doesn’t know your affiliation, why should she trust that you’re accurately representing your village meta? The second part I can see your perspective of why it reminded you of arguing with wolf Pippy, but I agree with what others have said about what wolf!Pippy does not being relevant to what wolf!genny would do, since I don’t see an inherent wolf motivation to her saying she had a longer misread streak.
 
violetvett said:
I meant as in a long, detailed, ISO-type specific post. While I realize wolves will eventually do this as well, anyone who writes a long post (especially early on) is going to be analyzed the next day. Wolves usually want to avoid any analysis, so it doesn't make sense for a wolf to put themselves out there so early on when their only goal right now is to successfully survive the day.

Wolves instead will likely choose someone (maybe with PR vibes) and then tack some reasoning on there so they don't look too suspicious. Long and short posts attract attention, medium-sized ones don't.
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Eh, it depends. Wolves still need to put in an effort to analyze if they want to get themselves village read and get villagers yeeted, and this kind of "long posts usually aren't made by wolves" reason could be the exact reason a wolf decides to make long posts.
 
Viscernable said:
The first part I struggle to understand. If genny’s a villager and doesn’t know your affiliation, why should she trust that you’re accurately representing your village meta? The second part I can see your perspective of why it reminded you of arguing with wolf Pippy, but I agree with what others have said about what wolf!Pippy does not being relevant to what wolf!genny would do, since I don’t see an inherent wolf motivation to her saying she had a longer misread streak.
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OH HI VIS
pls check your inbox
Thanks
 
samac said:
I disagree with moving people village for quote posts.
While some ISOs show real substance and can make me lean someone village, I think it can sometimes be easier to latch on to a few sketchy posts as a wolf to get the train rolling on a misyeet and you just look like a misguided villager. Powerwolfing my friend. Wolfing isn’t all just hiding in the shadows.
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And some people make such long posts that no one wants to read them and everyone just goes "fine, you get a village read"
you know who you are
 
violetvett said:
Yep, I agree with this. I am NOT completely disregarding alley as a wolf (hence the "for now"), but as of this moment in time alley is villagey to me. I'm not going to bring up the fact alley wrote a long post later in the game as "hard proof" alley isn't a wolf. Until there's actual evidence/dead bodies though, alley (FOR NOW) is village-leaning to me, as I both understand her logic and she's drawing attention to herself by writing up an ISO early on.

And yes, obviously all posts should have attention(?) I'm just trying to explain what I think a wolf's logic would be. Why would you think I'm saying otherwise?
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Because I've been a wolf multiple times before and I didn't alter the length of my posts to specifically be a medium length nor avoid going after people I thought were likely to be vanilla. There's no one strategy.
 
Viscernable said:
The first part I struggle to understand. If genny’s a villager and doesn’t know your affiliation, why should she trust that you’re accurately representing your village meta? The second part I can see your perspective of why it reminded you of arguing with wolf Pippy, but I agree with what others have said about what wolf!Pippy does not being relevant to what wolf!genny would do, since I don’t see an inherent wolf motivation to her saying she had a longer misread streak.
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Read rate is easy to check by just going to last year's game list. There's no reason to assume I'm lying when it can be easily confirmed. I'm not bothered by forgetting. I'm bothered by implying I'm lying with no evidence.
 
violetvett said:
Side note: currently placing alley as village for now, as it doesn't ever make sense to me for a wolf to go after someone specific D1 (too risky, even from the reverse psychology angle).
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violetvett said:
I meant as in a long, detailed, ISO-type specific post. While I realize wolves will eventually do this as well, anyone who writes a long post (especially early on) is going to be analyzed the next day. Wolves usually want to avoid any analysis, so it doesn't make sense for a wolf to put themselves out there so early on when their only goal right now is to successfully survive the day.

Wolves instead will likely choose someone (maybe with PR vibes) and then tack some reasoning on there so they don't look too suspicious. Long and short posts attract attention, medium-sized ones don't.
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Just reiterating a bit what others have said...it's about the actual content of the push, not the structure. Looking at length of posts and trying to determine affiliation based on that is only going to get you in trouble. Many wolves like to go on the offensive, even early, because it makes it look like they're actively wolfhunting. And sometimes with long posts people's eyes just glaze over and they don't actually consider if the content of the post was worth the length.

That being said, I'm ok with alley right now.
 
WildZoo said:
Just reiterating a bit what others have said...it's about the actual content of the push, not the structure. Looking at length of posts and trying to determine affiliation based on that is only going to get you in trouble. Many wolves like to go on the offensive, even early, because it makes it look like they're actively wolfhunting. And sometimes with long posts people's eyes just glaze over and they don't actually consider if the content of the post was worth the length.

That being said, I'm ok with alley right now.
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Are you village reading alley or is she neutral?
 
Animal Midwife said:
This is actually an incorrect application of a pressure vote. Pressure is to force someone to get themselves out of the POE or die trying, not simply appear on the thread (unless you think the appearance itself is extremely villagey).

Can I still hear if you have any village reads?
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Wouldn't it be good to encourage everyone to appear on the thread so that in future days we have previous knowledge on them? Not appearing on a thread at all would make it difficult to understand anything about you. If someone provides minimal information about themself that would indicate to me that they want their identity to be less known.
If I apply a vote indicating that it is because I want to hear more from a given person, then wouldn't that convince them to say more to get me to switch my vote? (Especially if that vote puts them close to being the majority vote)

Honestly on my first read through the thread I was focusing on suspicions and tried to pick them out. I didn't feel super strongly that I could trust anyone as village. I wouldn't say I have any decent village reads.
 
WildZoo said:
Just reiterating a bit what others have said...it's about the actual content of the push, not the structure. Looking at length of posts and trying to determine affiliation based on that is only going to get you in trouble. Many wolves like to go on the offensive, even early, because it makes it look like they're actively wolfhunting. And sometimes with long posts people's eyes just glaze over and they don't actually consider if the content of the post was worth the length.

That being said, I'm ok with alley right now.
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Honestly, in my limited experience (including reading earlier games), the longer an info-dump post is, the more dubious logic or big leaps there are.

Quality >> Quantity
 
OctopusDoctorpus said:
Wouldn't it be good to encourage everyone to appear on the thread so that in future days we have previous knowledge on them? Not appearing on a thread at all would make it difficult to understand anything about you. If someone provides minimal information about themself that would indicate to me that they want their identity to be less known.
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That is good. It's just less helpful if you let up on pressure the moment they show their face. Then, if they're a wolf, they know they can coast to end game with minimal effort as long as they wave every now and then.
OctopusDoctorpus said:
If I apply a vote indicating that it is because I want to hear more from a given person, then wouldn't that convince them to say more to get me to switch my vote? (Especially if that vote puts them close to being the majority vote)
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Only if you're serious about sticking to them until they do enough.
 
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WildZoo said:
How are people feeling about April?
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I just did a quick ISO and am leaning neutral for April. Most of her posts seem like jokes (but it is only D1) or like general WW strategy but not specific enough for my liking. She's mentioned names of other players but nothing concrete about them for me to work with- a lot of it was based on past games so that's not helpful for me. It reminds me of how TME (a wolf) played in our noob game - they were very helpful if we had questions about WW but hardly actually strategized about who was village or wolf. As of now though, I don't really have any solid village reads.
 
WildZoo said:
She's floating around the amorphous blob that is the "neutrals with a village point or two", with you and shelter
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I’m surprised you’re willing to throw any village points on her because I’m pretty sure you’re similar to me in not being able to day 1 read her at all.
She stays squarely in neutral day 1 from now on for me, dammit.
 
samac said:
I’m surprised you’re willing to throw any village points on her because I’m pretty sure you’re similar to me in not being able to day 1 read her at all.
She stays squarely in neutral day 1 from now on for me, dammit.
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No, I correctly gave her village points d1 in Casino, and was only really interested in moving her wolfy if I had been right about Dina (which I...wasn't...).
 
Truenamer said:
But it says right next to your name that you're an un-yeetable non-wolf, and the forum wouldn't lie to me, would it? 🥺
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It used to say she was an unyeetable wolf so I wouldn’t trust her SDN title to village read her 😉

zuriburi said:
Fwiw re Fluff I do believe that she would have thought of the vanilla reveal not really mattering as much as a PR reveal without considering that it might help wolves figure out who has PRs bc I definitely never considered that a vanilla reveal still gives wolves helpful information
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But Fluff has played two games before this with role reveals and I feel like it was discussed quite a bit on when people should role reveal. It is true that Fluff role-revealed as vanilla in the speed game as well, but that was when she was under pressure/someone asked her iirc? I don’t think it was randomly stated. I also know that it was discussed in manator chat that vanillagers shouldn’t role reveal because they narrow the NK options down for the wolves. I really thought it was discussed on thread too, but maybe not. I think only Vis would know if Fluff asked about that in their manatee/manator chat.

Aprilthearab said:
These would all be fair points for an experienced player, but these kind of just seem like jokey noob things to me. I remember being scared ****less the first time I played with the veterans because all of them were very srs biznis and hounding the jokey lighthearted noobs
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I still think it’s jokey noob wolf who’s trying too hard to fit in, but I do get your point. There have been a lot of other jokes from her and from the other noobs that haven’t bothered me. I pointed out the ones that felt a bit off to me.


Aprilthearab said:
And some people make such long posts that no one wants to read them and everyone just goes "fine, you get a village read"
you know who you are
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Okay but she also did that while wolfing here and on MU so I’m not letting her get a village read again solely for her giant ISOs 😛
 
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Lawpy said:
What do you make of truey’s examples of the games he looked into?
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It makes sense as it sounds like he went for the two most recent games (AM has mentioned that Bowwnty probably wasn’t great for reading village v wolf meta, since she was playing more like true neutral, but it’s still a logical starting point for someone to first read the most recent game), then the most talked-about recent game AM was wolfing. I didn’t play ggoats, but I have heard that AM was generally more aggressive there than she typically is, which doesn’t really fit wolf AM I was brought to endgame and slowly eaten by experienced in Donuts and Criminal Minds
 
puppydogtor said:
I just did a quick ISO and am leaning neutral for April. Most of her posts seem like jokes (but it is only D1) or like general WW strategy but not specific enough for my liking. She's mentioned names of other players but nothing concrete about them for me to work with- a lot of it was based on past games so that's not helpful for me. It reminds me of how TME (a wolf) played in our noob game - they were very helpful if we had questions about WW but hardly actually strategized about who was village or wolf. As of now though, I don't really have any solid village reads.
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This is a pretty good summary of the exact impression I've gotten, and it concerns me
 
samac said:
I’m surprised you’re willing to throw any village points on her because I’m pretty sure you’re similar to me in not being able to day 1 read her at all.
She stays squarely in neutral day 1 from now on for me, dammit.
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I think Dubz is getting better at reading me correctly. Right now shorty’s the only one with a true Alley reading card.
 
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