BOWWLING TOURNAMENT GAME THREAD

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Huh, maybe not

@Animal Midwife has vmh bussed before?

Well that’s terrifying

All of vmh's mentions of violet
Kind of felt like that vote came out of the blue once violet was gaining some sus but there were only three votes on violet before that and it's not exactly late in the cycle
Yep agreed
 
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First off, surprised no one else thinks that this bandwagon is pretty obvious. I'm such an easy yeet target for the wolves right now from inactivity and jokiness and lots of you are just going with it. It's really funny to me, but props to any wolves successfully instigating that.

I was going to summarize everything, but you know what, why not. Mel, this is on you, you asked for this 🙃

To summarize my thoughts up to page 20, though, pshelty, meats, and samac have mostly been posting agreements or other nonsubstantial claims. Maybe this will change? Lawpy is doing the same thing asking lots and lots of questions with no substance, but I think they post a little more useful stuff later. As said before, fluff is being paranoid which is normal. YK has been acting weird and defensive from the Ivy vote, stoat and a couple others have noted this. Lots of looking at Zenge's posting history right now (honestly not sure how this is super relevant, but dubz was leading this initiative). Dubz, lawpy, and potential also started looking at stoaty for the YK thing.


(That was towards AM super early on. I know there was debate on whether the AM-genny debate was jokey but with hindsight, it makes ya wonder...)


Hmmmm

HMMMMMM. Bad reasons all around, not a fan.

Ok, fine, you're still lowkey bandwagoning though.

lol pshelty you're doing the same thing right now, all questions with vague opinions


Erm, what? That's very awkward and agreeable, Ivy. Acknowledging that it's outdated doesn't make it not outdated.



Wow, guys, how novel and original. (Lawpy noted this weirdness, too.)


Last post before WZ's death and not too soon later...

Hmmmmm. If you're a wolf thinking about killing WZ, it sure seems like a smart idea to vote for their top suspect to throw off the scent.


Oh, that scares me. I actually totally forgot about April until reading this post, weird.

Hopping ahead until after the deaths because this is getting too long, even for me. Hopefully it showed my thought process a little. I lost the quotes directed towards me and my answers in the save process, but ultimately was trying to say that I somewhat defended fluff because she's one of the only players here that I've played with and she seemed to be acting like she did as a villager. I know zero (0) metas so I was trying to go off the little evidence I have. This is also my first time doing D1 alone, I had a mason buddy to bounce ideas off during the noob game so I'm really in the dark here.

Also, some people were saying genny's nk doesn't make sense, but I think it does. If it was a vig shot, yep makes sense, she wasn't very active and there's not a lot to go off. Wolf nk also makes sense since wolves might think she's quiet because she doesn't want to draw attention to a PR. Which she didn't have luckily.

Posting all of this now to break it up. Don't worry, more incoming.
Well this is interesting. It’s a bit reachy but valid points on octos and ivymoosy
 
As of halfway thru page 40 I still feel overwhelmingly “meh” about VV. Admittedly her posts under pressure have a tone that reads a bit wolfy to me but I haven’t seen her under pressure before and I’m not willing to yeet her for it. The lack of prominent counterwagon doesn’t sit right with me.
 
As of halfway thru page 40 I still feel overwhelmingly “meh” about VV. Admittedly her posts under pressure have a tone that reads a bit wolfy to me but I haven’t seen her under pressure before and I’m not willing to yeet her for it. The lack of prominent counterwagon doesn’t sit right with me.
Was this meant for our PM?
 
Thinking on that
I think the timing of vmh's yeet is really what sets it off for me. She placed that vote early when there were only two or three votes already on violet, which put violet in the lead - she didn't jump onto a wolf sinking ship thinking she needed the credit, she jumped onto a village sinking ship to make sure it sank.
 
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I think the timing of vmh's yeet is really what sets it off for me. She placed that vote early when there were only two or three votes already on violet, which put violet in the lead - she didn't jump onto a wolf sinking ship thinking she needed the credit, she jumped onto a village sinking ship to make sure it sank.
This is awkward because you're one of my neutral-to-wolfy reads, so I'm replying to save this post for returning to later
 
why are you and AM confusing me rn?

My thoughts are the origial post-- im comfortable moving them (Zenge) to a less wolfie placement but i also didnt see much useful info from them today
You linked a post where you said you’re salty at zenge’s vote for you. But zenges later unvoted and explained why. Does his explanation in any way affect your read on him?
 
You jump from Lawpy is being useful to immediately saying you think Lawpy is a wolf and planning to kill dubz. Massive leap. You can't think someone is village and also a wolf.
I mean, you can, when it comes to different actions. It’s not that strange to have a conflicting read on different posts from a players. Honestly it would be weird to have no conflicting thoughts.
 
I think the timing of vmh's yeet is really what sets it off for me. She placed that vote early when there were only two or three votes already on violet, which put violet in the lead - she didn't jump onto a wolf sinking ship thinking she needed the credit, she jumped onto a village sinking ship to make sure it sank.
According to the article chaos posted during the bounty hunting game, votes #3 and 4 on a wagon are frequently wolves bussing. The article was talking about D1 but I could see it applying here too. Which troubles me because I was feeling a lot better about VMH today. I like her jokes obviously, but I also like her thoughts and reads.

 
I was about to ask you about your naked yeet vote. Then SDN decided to load your two giant ISOs. I appreciate you doing that iso because it helped solidify that I’m going for Ivy after violet.

I do remember that Ivy said she worked on Saturdays so we probably won’t hear from her until later tonight or even tomorrow
I don't think ivy and violet are compatible as w/w and I feel much stronger about ivy than violet
 
According to the article chaos posted during the bounty hunting game, votes #3 and 4 on a wagon are frequently wolves bussing. The article was talking about D1 but I could see it applying here too. Which troubles me because I was feeling a lot better about VMH today. I like her jokes obviously, but I also like her thoughts and reads.

I'd rather see an ivy or violet flip before I make any assumptions about vmh bussing
 
Is it awkward because you're reading vmh wolfy?
If violet is yeeted today and is village, then I would assume you aren't trying to bus vmh and it would be impactful in how I assess both of you. If violet is yeeted and is a wolf, then it will still be a comment that would get some consideration, more towards you than vmh
 
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*Ignore the "WZ last post before death", I misread the time, I've been here for 4 hours and my brain is a puddle. Lawpy weirdness still stands regardless.*

TLDR on my vote, @SportPonies : Violet should be yeeted because of a dumb joke she made.


Agreed, I noted this earlier.


Yeah this is village paranoia behavior. Wolf would have kept their mouth shut and waited to see if fluff would slip some more. Pshelty is back to neutral.

Backpedaling and mostly agreeing with some others.

(10 pages left, yay!!!)

Page 31 is an influx of Octo votes, mainly because of inactivity. Voters include stoat, True, and an imaginary one from samac.


Good question.

My name's thrown back into the mix after a long time. Yesterday evening. BUT it's consistent so far, April voted me yesterday.

I don't want to quote it all, but I still like Alley's posts and reasoning and logic on page 35 at 2am. Village-leaning.
True COULD be pulling a Dana with the Sporty iso so I'm trying to not pay a lot of attention to that right now.

Octo has been quiet in the main thread, but active in the PM hmmmm.


Lawpy brings me up first this morning. Arguably the origin of my yeets.


Which "other reasons"?


Here's lawpy again bringing me up. I made a joke about ties and somehow that's wolfier than attempting a tie vote? Hey lawpy, what about Ivy??? You literally haven't mentioned her once yet.


Oh boy, not again. You guys are literally going to misyeet me because of a dumb joke I made 🤦‍♀️ Sigh.
Hey, Alley, what about Ivy? You know, the actually tie-attempter?


Um, what are you confused about? It was because of the strange tone that fluff noted, even I remember that from like 20 pages ago. Woofy.


Yeah, puppy's right, that's weird, Octo.


Beetlejuice much? Didn't we already go over this, too? I think we're all in agreement ties aren't good, this contributes nothing to the conversation.


Boom, a popular vote starts. I've explained my absence already. This seems like an easy shot and is also weirdly personal? "Fluff was just the wolfiest to me at that time." Yeah, and I didn't like your reasoning, so I voted for you. "Clear cut evidence" was an overstatement, as I agree no one had any evidence. I try stay away from the "tonal" arguments.


Oh hey, Ivy's name finally shows up! And no one pays attention to this.

Octo's gone missing until...

This is...very insightful for a noob. Huh. Odd. Someone mentioned before Octo seemed "coached" and I have to agree. Puppy, have you talked about something like this with Octo?

Realized I'm kind of aggressive and probably overly defensive in this post, but realizing that people are voting me because of a dumb joke I made is pretty infuriating. Especially considering how fluff made a dumb joke and we all realized maybe that wasn't the best way to go around things.

We're 3 hours from a vote. Do we want a role reveal, gang? Seems like a suitable time to do it, but if you want to find out the hard way I'm village, by all means go right ahead. Who am I to deny the bloodlust of the masses?
I feel better about this post, at least on a surface level. Haven’t fully processed her arguments as I’m rushing to catch up but my gut feeling is that this comes from a village mindset
 
Oof okay heres me trying to follow/explain...

Original Fluff post
No. I have no clue about Ivy. Its just that there's so much discussion already, and youngkal voting Ivy and not considering anyone else is weird to me.

I feel like this is a reasonable point by Fluff and I wanted to see where it was going to go.
post above was quoted in this message---

why are you and AM confusing me rn?

My thoughts are the origial post-- im comfortable moving them (Zenge) to a less wolfie placement but i also didnt see much useful info from them today
Heres what posted with my "original post" as referred to in this post -- "I am not seeing anything today super useful from them either -- they could move more neutral but that was just inital placement"

You didn't? I thought Zenge has been good.
So my feels were i could move more netural after my iso

You linked a post where you said you’re salty at zenge’s vote for you. But zenges later unvoted and explained why. Does his explanation in any way affect your read on him?
It was stated that he unyeeted me bc Genny informed him I wasnt a noob but someone who didnt play in a while so again it felt like it was a following others vote without really having true feels -- again i had other people i was considering so the whole pile on YK train was weird to me

idk if this makes any sense or not
 
Actually, I did not know that. My action in the noob game was to protect. I don't know how seering brings results. Anyway, the point I wanted to make was that neither Genny or Dubz were seered and killed, cause like people have said, it's more likely for wolves to go after PRs if they can discover them, and both Genny and Dubz were vanilla.

dubz wasn't vanilla.

Regardless, there's no way of knowing for certain which actions were used on either of them even if both were wolf kills.

For purposes of official roles and mechanics her role is considered vanilla, but had a 1x ability modifier. But feel free to debate the semantics.
… well this confuses me because i thought WZ wasn’t vanilla but i think i sort of understand
 
Dang it violet, another long post I want to break down.

It's not a bandwagon yet. Still a few hours until yeet close so it's not like it is materializing out of thin air. Those who have voted you have given valid reasons. Also, I don't know why you assume wolves are behind people voting you. I'm finding your answers highly suspicious and they don't read very villagey to me, so unless your packmates are hardcore bussing you I think it's fair for villagers to be looking at you.

What YK thing? Please be specific because I don't know what you're referring to. I wouldn't say fluff was intensely paranoid in the noob game because she assembled her village bloc early on and then utterly trusted those players until it got her killed by Dana. She was faithful to her village bloc to the end. I'm also not sure what the point of mentioning dubz looking at Zenge's posting history is because that wound up being a dead end essentially with dubz concluding Zenge was village based on the timing of the posts.

Makes you wonder that AM is a wolf who killed genny out of malice, you mean? We don't know why genny died or who killed her so I think it's moot for now.

Not really? Samac was saying genny felt weird to her but she didn't have a reference since she'd never been in a game with genny as a wolf. Are you now implying samac killed genny? Also, why does it matter since even if samac did kill genny that wouldn't prove she's a wolf?

I already expressed my issue with this line of thinking before, but it isn't always bad to bandwagon if you think that player is a wolf. Yeet who you think is a wolf.

I ISO'd myself and this is just literally not true.

I don't see the point of including this.

I don't think this bland comment adds anything.

You jump from Lawpy is being useful to immediately saying you think Lawpy is a wolf and planning to kill dubz. Massive leap. You can't think someone is village and also a wolf.

It actually didn't, in my opinion. You just sort of grumbled about some posts.

You have zuri you could be PMing with. They may be a noob but you can still chat with them, so this feels odd. We've clearly established (and fluff herself has admitted!) that fluff is NOT acting like she did in the noob game also.

NKA is not relevant at this point. Why are you so focused on this point?
This is a very interesting response post
 
Frame 2 Official Voting Tally (as of post 2189)

Vis (1) - zuri
Meats (1) - AM
Violet (6) - Lawpy, puppy, meats, blue, alley, shelty
OctoDoc (2) - True, violet
zuri () -
Sporty (2) - Mel, jfluff
Oxygen (1) - Octodoc
Ivy (-)
Fluff (3) - Sporty, April, ykal

Leading: @violetvett

Ineligible: samac

16/20
missing:
@Viscernable @IvyMoose @WorthlessOxygen @Zenge142

Day close: <35 MINUTES 10PM EST/9PM CST/7PM FANTASYLAND
 
I think I’m going to stick with my gut on this. They only felt better yesterday after pressure was applied and some of their posts after Dubz and genny flipped, which I already highlighted and VMH pointed out, really seemed off. Haven’t really seen a lot today that’s made me feel any better, including the retaliatory vote on sporty.

Yeet Fluff
 
Finally caught up! responding to a bunch of stuff here.

Damn, 60% only puts her in neutral to wolf? Do they have to cough up some bones from a villager on thread to be in your definitely wolfy reads? Lol

Do you have anyone you're reading more wolfy than her atm?
People on my wolfy side of things include Sporty, Vis, Violet (really trying to figure her out), possibly Ivy after those ISO's by April, and a couple other folks who I won't list because I'm not prepared to defend my opinion on them. DocOc is actually less in my wolf books now, as I'll explain below.

I’d consider >50% confidence a strong wolf read. There’s not an official scale or anything that you HAVE to follow but for reference, I think most people here would consider that a solid wolf read at least.
Yeah, I hear that.

In my massive reads list this morning I did mention at the very end that I would likely end up voting between zuri or violet today. I actually had a bunch of violet's posts quoted but they were the ones that got eaten by SDN and I emotionally gave up on digging them up again


You didn't answer my last question - is there anyone you're reading more wolfy than sporty?
Not sure I have enough data for a more or less, just a "wolfish" pile.

Unyeet Ivy, yeet Octo.

Ivy hasn't posted as much, but we know for sure that Octo has been active before in the PM. Things just don't add up, I've already said why in my longer posts.
Because i’m wolfreading octos too, so having one wolfread vote for another makes me ponder.
At this point octodocto is pretty low on the list (in terms of number of votes) so it would be fairly safe for one wolf to vote for another as a "no no, I voted for a wolf before everyone else!" cover when in fact there's not much of a danger of octodocto actually dying.
I don't know that I see that as a logical w/w move at this point. The Octo wagon didn't exist prior to violet's vote and people have already been talking about Octo a lot today. There's still also plenty of time for wagons to shift.
So, I've been stewing on Octo, and I actually came up with a theory that explains his behavior pretty well: he was really hyped up to be a wolf, but got a vanillager role and it took a lot of the wind out of his sails. Then, while still feeling a bit put-out, the thread took off and he's been struggling to get up the motivation to keep up.

Seriously. If someone hyped for the game got to be a wolf in their first proper game, I just have a really hard time seeing them be so absent and checked out.

Unyeet Octo
 
I think I’m going to stick with my gut on this. They only felt better yesterday after pressure was applied and some of their posts after Dubz and genny flipped, which I already highlighted and VMH pointed out, really seemed off. Haven’t really seen a lot today that’s made me feel any better, including the retaliatory vote on sporty.

Yeet Fluff
How are you reading vmh, ivy, and violet?
 
So, I've been stewing on Octo, and I actually came up with a theory that explains his behavior pretty well: he was really hyped up to be a wolf, but got a vanillager role and it took a lot of the wind out of his sails. Then, while still feeling a bit put-out, the thread took off and he's been struggling to get up the motivation to keep up.

Seriously. If someone hyped for the game got to be a wolf in their first proper game, I just have a really hard time seeing them be so absent and checked out.

Unyeet Octo
This exact scenario has happened with a first time wolf before. I'd be careful to clear someone for minimal contributions in the majority of cases.
 
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@Viscernable I find it odd that you aren't concerned with the wagon on Violet and are focused only on others. Are you reading her as a villager or wolf?

Potential and April get village points for trying to look into others since they are concerned about yeeting a possible villager
For clarification, I generally do post by post analysis as I get confused and lose my spot if I try to jump around or wait to reply until I’m caught up. Arguments for VV over the past couple days before she came to defend just inspired a big shrug from me. I didn’t really sgree with them but I didn’t find them particularly wolfy, so had no reason to comment on them.
 
Have I responded to them now? Tag me if not
Nope you're good. I can explain why I think True is village but a lot of it hinges on angleshooting. Not really so certain about Fluff, replied to Zenge on this already.

Finally caught up! responding to a bunch of stuff here.


People on my wolfy side of things include Sporty, Vis, Violet (really trying to figure her out), possibly Ivy after those ISO's by April, and a couple other folks who I won't list because I'm not prepared to defend my opinion on them. DocOc is actually less in my wolf books now, as I'll explain below.


Yeah, I hear that.


Not sure I have enough data for a more or less, just a "wolfish" pile.





So, I've been stewing on Octo, and I actually came up with a theory that explains his behavior pretty well: he was really hyped up to be a wolf, but got a vanillager role and it took a lot of the wind out of his sails. Then, while still feeling a bit put-out, the thread took off and he's been struggling to get up the motivation to keep up.

Seriously. If someone hyped for the game got to be a wolf in their first proper game, I just have a really hard time seeing them be so absent and checked out.

Unyeet Octo
Nutterbutter I don't follow your octologic, octos was gonna be one of my considerations for the next day. Do you have any BETTER theories?
 
I think I’m going to stick with my gut on this. They only felt better yesterday after pressure was applied and some of their posts after Dubz and genny flipped, which I already highlighted and VMH pointed out, really seemed off. Haven’t really seen a lot today that’s made me feel any better, including the retaliatory vote on sporty.

Yeet Fluff
If fluff was to flip would that resolve anyone else for you?
 
I'll do an Octo iso since there's an Ivy one already.
It's game 1 so I am a little bit lost in the sauce, but I'm going to break my radio silence to give some insight into my thoughts here.

The points brought up regarding fluff resonate with me a little. I'm questioning the role reveal without any fire to cause it. It seems like it could be an instance of overselling village.
Something else I'm questioning which I think was brought up already is in page 4 when Lawpy questioned if the bowling scores applied to wolves too. Overselling or nah?

In other news, YEET IvyMoose for the time being to see if it can encourage more conversation. (I know I'm guilty of being quiet too 🙂)
Very nooby opening. In general just agreeing with everyone else. Votes for a silent player.
I figured it's best to apply more pressure to illicit a response and then revoke after the response. If several people have 1 vote I don't think it would really be all that persuading.
Wouldn't it be good to encourage everyone to appear on the thread so that in future days we have previous knowledge on them? Not appearing on a thread at all would make it difficult to understand anything about you. If someone provides minimal information about themself that would indicate to me that they want their identity to be less known.
If I apply a vote indicating that it is because I want to hear more from a given person, then wouldn't that convince them to say more to get me to switch my vote? (Especially if that vote puts them close to being the majority vote)

Honestly on my first read through the thread I was focusing on suspicions and tried to pick them out. I didn't feel super strongly that I could trust anyone as village. I wouldn't say I have any decent village reads.
Wow, that sure reminds me of someone. Yep, hypocritical of me, but it still stands.
It's not really pressure if it goes away before anything comes from it though. Piled on votes definitely cause more pressure
There's a lot to read. Agreed
Unyeet IvyMoose
Alright. Not going to input your own thoughts though? Huh.
Yeet Kal
Post 934 made me feel a little suspicious. It just seemed like a heavier response than was necessary with the question marks and the wolf accusation. Not a very heavy feeling, but it's the best I've got on this D1.
Octo, there's a reply button on the bottom right, it's easier to use. Octo is still agreeing here with everyone else, not contributing.
Ayo, I am still here. I am still playing. Not caught up but jumping ahead to make my presence known 🙂. Something that's been jumping around in my head is that it was noted that ties are historically bad for village, yet many (11) votes remained on players with 1 or two votes total on them. Why wouldn't it be advantageous to pick among the two/three players leading in votes and switch your vote there. Especially on day 1 where information is at its lowest. Sure, you may not have a super strong feeling toward voting those on the chopping block, but it's hard to have a super strong feeling in any direction this early. Wouldn't you rather take a chance on one of the potentials that has given you the most suspicion rather than leaving the tie which could result in a no kill (free night of wolf killing) or double kill.

Still deciding where I'm leaning for today's vote.
As I said before, this doesn't contribute anything to the conversation. We all agree ties = not good for village.
Feeling slightly suspicious about you @Lawpy . Around post 1856, any particular reason that you were concerned about April grouping me/unknowns into the POE? Given what's known about me so far, I feel like she had reason to be on the fence.

Sure, I appreciate you challenging me being put into the POE, but it would seem to me that wolves would want to protect some noobier villagers over other villagers so they have some easier bait when the numbers dwindle down.

Protecting me could be protecting easy bait for later
An original thought, yay! Has village paranoia, too. This is the only post I like from Octo.

I am a noob noobing it up on thread of my own choosing thank you sir
Ah, the ol' "I'm just a noob pls".

Yeet worthlessoxygen
Octo did this "to see what would happen". Please vote for someone and give us your reasoning Octo.

Some people I'm leaning village on

sheltervet
puppydogtor
mel
samac

Feeling unsure about most others
Has still not given any reason


BTW, I totally agree with people thinking that at least one of us inactive folks is a wolf. It makes sense and ties in with what I've seen before in games, including the recent noob one. Unfortunately, you have the wrong bunny.