BOWWLING TOURNAMENT GAME THREAD

Started by cubsrule4e
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justafluff said:
Both you and Vis are so sure VMH is village cause she made valid attempts to wolfhunt? Like what?
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Did I not just give you a whole post with quotes on why I think VMH is village?

Melchizedek said:
I asked about meats because I feel like she's village (see below for why) and throughout the game you've been wishy-washy on her and sometimes it feels like you're just trying to throw suspicion everywhere and see where it sticks. You gave A reason about why meats makes you uncomfortable, but its also contingent on your alley read. Do you have anything about meats individually that makes you think she is wolf/village? What were the initial things you found sus, even if its just tone, I'd like you to point it out so I can evaluate it too.

Doesn't hesitate to call out wagons that she thinks is built on faulty logic. I'd like to know exactly what she thought was reachy and who if anyone was wolf either driving that vote or sheeping.







ehh not thrilled about the vibes thing. The reasoning for voting April over Alley makes sense though.


Shows follow up reads on April and Alley with decent insight that I agree with. I'd started to get a village read on both of them end of D1/after D1.

The sporty comments seem a little sheep-like, and the fluff comments are very hedgy.



So pockety 😍 but genny and dubz both village read me and some others are. Maybe I'm better at explaining my thought process this game or people have adjusted to my baseline. Idk. Something i'm keeping in mind.



This is sound. She's generating discussion. mild feels that its the same line of inquiry I was pushing with Zuri, but I've been more active than her, it could just be I got to the question first.


This is probably the most village post from her. She noted a discrepancy, went back to investigate it, and presented the results. I think this is good village play.




This catch kind of cinches it for me. AM has frequently pushed me to consider my early wolf reads in a pack and I have to remind her that I don't usually do pack analysis until at least one flip. The fact that AM isn't thinking pack compatibility re: Meats and April, bothers me.

Meats made a pretty big show of voting April over Alley on D1 and I don't think she would bus right off the bat with no real pressure on April, so it doesn't make sense to me that AM would have both April and Meats in her top 3. This highlights what I mean by I feel like AM is "off."
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Melchizedek said:
I don’t know if I buy that. Blocs to me are more natural and built on degrees of trust like the sketchmasons PM chain was. Sure not everyone trust everyone fully and I might not be convinced X is a villager but if I have a strong village read on Y and Y says X is a villager, then I’m okay with the bloc being me, X, and Y, as long as I personally amd fact checking and verifying that I’m not feeling outright wolfy about what X is doing.
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There's logic here.

My question: is this really a conversation to have at this moment, or perhaps after we have a yeet and have more than one yeet and two NKs to go on? It's worth keeping in mind but I feel that your focus on what-ifs too soon is going to make the water murky instead of clearing the weeds.
 
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justafluff said:
Both you and Vis are so sure VMH is village cause she made valid attempts to wolfhunt? Like what?
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Pbs Nature Wolf GIF by Nature on PBS
wolf GIF
wolf GIF
 
Melchizedek said:
I don’t know if I buy that. Blocs to me are more natural and built on degrees of trust like the sketchmasons PM chain was. Sure not everyone trust everyone fully and I might not be convinced X is a villager but if I have a strong village read on Y and Y says X is a villager, then I’m okay with the bloc being me, X, and Y, as long as I personally amd fact checking and verifying that I’m not feeling outright wolfy about what X is doing.
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That's just having village reads. We would've been called the bloc masons, not the sketch masons if the bloc was so solid to others.
 
bluestoat said:
There's logic here.

My question: is this really a conversation to have at this moment, or perhaps after we have a yeet and have more than one yeet and two NKs to go on? It's worth keeping in mind but I feel that to focus on what-ifs too soon is going to make the water murky instead of clearing the weeds.
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I don't see how this discussion is remotely harmful. It's not like it's shutting down other attempts at conversation.
 
Melchizedek said:
Did I not just give you a whole post with quotes on why I think VMH is village?
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Yes I remember that. I went and looked at her posts yesterday. She doesn’t give me a wolfy vibe. What bothers me about VMH, is that she joined the violet wagon cause violet was wolfy and then the Ivy wagon just to break a tie. That’s fair, but then you and vis come and call that a valid effort at wolf hunting, and clear her as village, while I’m in everyone’s neutral POE and I’m constantly on thread looking at posts and defending people and still you find me wolfy.
 
bluestoat said:
There's logic here.

My question: is this really a conversation to have at this moment, or perhaps after we have a yeet and have more than one yeet and two NKs to go on? It's worth keeping in mind but I feel that to focus on what-ifs too soon is going to make the water murky instead of clearing the weeds.
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bluestoat said:
It's not that I don't think you raise a point @Melchizedek, every group needs a devil's advocate
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That’s all I’m trying to do. I’ve mainly discussed the people that have been in the thread POE during this cycle. I very quickly just wanted people’s thoughts on the others I mentioned (PSV, Zenge, putting April just barely back into my own POE, etc.) to see if anyone could bring up points for why I shouldn’t be reading them village. I wasn’t pushing them or trying to force discussion away from the POE, until Sporty et. al tried to paint me wolfy for making sure I wasn’t just blindly following my initial impressions.

This is a common wolf tactic to start pushing me specifically, when a wolf is under pressure to get village to stop looking at them. I’m an easy misvote. A fact that no one here can dispute seeing as how I’ve won “most wolf read” and “easiest push” more than once at the WW AWWards.
 
justafluff said:
Yes I remember that. I went and looked at her posts yesterday. She doesn’t give me a wolfy vibe. What bothers me about VMH, is that she joined the violet wagon cause violet was wolfy and then the Ivy wagon just to break a tie. That’s fair, but then you and vis come and call that a valid effort at wolf hunting, and clear her as village, while I’m in everyone’s neutral POE and I’m constantly on thread looking at posts and defending people and still you find me wolfy.
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I’ve been wanting to ISO you today to see if I’m just having residual D1 feelings about you being sketchy or if you’ll come out of my POE or at least my top 3. I will depending on when I get out of the hospital today. It’s why I’d rather go sporty or YK today.
 
Animal Midwife said:
I don't see how this discussion is remotely harmful. It's not like it's shutting down other attempts at conversation.
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I was just concerned because I like the focus on Vis right now, it has been a vote I've wanted to see flip for a bit, and I am leery of opportunities for the direction to change
 
justafluff said:
Also fyi factoring in the mod kills that we’ve been supposedly ignoring, you know who zuri found sus? Mel and vis!
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🙄
Zuri found me suspicious for asking them to provide their own original content for telling them they were using faulty logic re:using Dubz’s reads to push Visc.
Don’t try to say it like Zuri’s reads were well informed. It’s a typical new player reaction to think that they are a villager so anyone doubting them/questioning them must be a wolf. True had that exact same reaction
 
Melchizedek said:
🙄
Zuri found me suspicious for asking them to provide their own original content for telling them they were using faulty logic re:using Dubz’s reads to push Visc.
Don’t try to say it like Zuri’s reads were well informed. It’s a typical new player reaction to think that they are a villager so anyone doubting them/questioning them must be a wolf. True had that exact same reaction
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Fair enough. I wasn’t factoring that into my thinking, it was just a straight thought that came to mind just because you said that the mod kills gave us info we’ve been ignoring.
 
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I haven’t been impressed with YK’s contributions. I looked through her posts yesterday, wasn’t feeling anything that made me village. One mediocre reads list, a lot of defensiveness and not a lot of apparent wolf hunting. Flipping her would also resolve vissy for everyone else who I think is village.

I’m going to
Yeet YK
 
justafluff said:
She did- she reminded him
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Not true. Posted this at 9:22 CST
Zenge142 said:
Village:
Animal Midwife - Still feel good about my read here. Nothing is standing out that would make me think this isn’t village AM.

samac - Still feel like there’s a villager here. I’m not seeing as much as I’d like, I know she’s irl busy, but nothing she’s posted jumps out at me as wolfy.

Lawpy - His content posts make sense. I’m following his thought process and he’s making good posts and seems like a good effort at game solving.

Aprilthearab - I liked the Ivy ISO. It was ultimately an incorrect conclusion, but the way she approached the ISO and analyzed the information read like it was a villager.

potentialsheltervet - PSV’s posts haven’t struck me as wolfy. I feel like I’m seeing a noob effort at game solving. Slight village read here.

Neutral:
justafluff - Ugh. Fine. I’ve probably been wrong. I explained my thoughts on this already, but I’m starting to think more likely village than not. Top of my neutrals.

bluestoat - I’m still unsure but I’m starting to read their posts and see a more village sided tone. I can see the game solving effort and it doesn’t look like subterfuge, it looks like a villager trying to game solve. Village side of Neutral.

violetvett - To me, the reveal and frustration rang true, but that sways me more than it should, and Lawpy’s points against it are fair. Overall I’m not sure here. But I’m more inclined to lean village here. Neutral for now though.

puppydogtor - Overall not sure. In general I think their posts seem okay though. Village side of neutral, but not by much.

SportPonies - I don’t have a clue how to read sporty. There. I said it. At think point I think I’m just waiting for some of her reads to flip to get a sense of how to read her. There’s a number of things that ping me, and I feel like I’m seeing a genuine effort at game solving in some posts, and that’s what I’m struggling with.

Melchizedek - Mel always pings me for a majority of reasons, but his most recent reads list is something I can’t really agree with. A lot of strange reads and reasoning. I don’t get why he’s putting April in the POE for doing the Ivy ISO. She was wrong, but I don’t see how being wrong on a read most people found wolfy since D1. AM was a weird addition too. I get they were in a certain order and April and AM were lower on the list, but still it’s pretty weird.

Wolfy:
Viscernable - I’ve been reading though Vis’s posts and I’m in agreement with people’s reads and votes here. The one thing that trips me up, is that if Fluff IS village, and Vis is a wolf, why wouldn’t Vis vote for Fluff at the end of D2? I guess it doesn’t change anything overall, contributions still seem like they’re really game solving, pushes seem off in a way that’s feels too forceful and less thoughtful than I expect from village!vis.

Youngkal - I’m not seeing anything that makes me think this is a villager. There were a few things that pinged me D1. D2 wasn’t much better. I can’t make a good case for this being a village player.

vetmedhead - After wolf reading VMH I backed off yesterday because I liked some of their posts, particularly those around Fluff. If I’m following the logic of my hunch that Fluff is probably village, then I think I’ve been played.

OctopusDoctorpus - Overall I’ve seen no effort at game solving. ISO is limited and full of fluff. The last minute vote switch was super weird last night.
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And this at 11:15 (CST)
Zenge142 said:
Whoops. Didn’t mean to leave out Alley.

Village
Alleycat03 - I had her as village from a tone read really on and I still feel like this is probably village Alley but she’s at the bottom of my village. I haven’t seen a lot the last couple cycles that make me super confident in her being a villager but nothing to make me do a 180 and change my read.
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The gap between Alley's posts was 10:34am and 11:20pm.
alleycat03 said:
@Animal Midwife has VMH wolfed in any of the games last year? I don’t remember which games she played.
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alleycat03 said:
Dang you’re good at summoning me. I’m actually about to go to sleep but I have some thoughts for the thread
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Ultimately I think the entire discussion is irrelevant, but I don't like false narrative and false timelines propagating on thread. I posted my reads and my update including Alley before Alley came back.
samac said:
What made you think about forgetting alley?
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I have no idea what prompted my realization that Alley had gotten left off the list. Considering I posted this immedatly after
Zenge142 said:
@alleycat03 do you have any updated thoughts on the game?
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So I was probably wondering where Alley was and thinking I hadn't heard from her in a while and then realized I'd missed her in my list.
 
@samac Do you have updated thoughts on why Vis isn't a wolf? I remember many pages ago you said it felt more like Vis's village play but I'm curious as to what Vis's more recent posts have you thinking. Why YK instead of Vis or even Mel?
 
Sorry, @Zenge142 and @samac this is the quote from her I remembered, posted at 10:00pm pst yesterday.
alleycat03 said:
You forgot me 😢

Also your wolf reads seem like a lot of low hanging fruit, and I tend to recall that you push misyeets on people like that when you’re wolfing. Computing some stuff now
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potentialsheltervet said:
@samac Do you have updated thoughts on why Vis isn't a wolf? I remember many pages ago you said it felt more like Vis's village play but I'm curious as to what Vis's more recent posts have you thinking. Why YK instead of Vis or even Mel?
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I have another line of communication open with Vissy. And as much as I’m willing to say right now is I’ll eat a shoe if she’s wolf.
I made it clear I don’t think she’s a wolf. Why would I vote there?
YK because of the reasons I said, and if she flips wolf it would clear vissy because of the D1 interactions with Kal.

Im not convinced Mel isn’t a wolf, but I have stronger feelings about getting more information for a YK flip so I’d prefer to go there.
 
samac said:
I have another line of communication open with Vissy. And as much as I’m willing to say right now is I’ll eat a shoe if she’s wolf.
I made it clear I don’t think she’s a wolf. Why would I vote there?
YK because of the reasons I said, and if she flips wolf it would clear vissy because of the D1 interactions with Kal.

Im not convinced Mel isn’t a wolf, but I have stronger feelings about getting more information for a YK flip so I’d prefer to go there.
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I'm inclined to believe your degree of certainty. I don't recall the YK and vis interaction from D1, only that YK voted for blue instead of vis during the tie...
EDIT to add: also don't feel like YK has helped at all. My only thought that she could be village is that she got blocked/ jailed and shared it with everyone, but that can happen to wolves too.
 
potentialsheltervet said:
This is so vague and not very helpful to village. I have a PM with April and expressed why I don't think she's a wolf. My reasons may not be great but I still have and shared them.
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She’s questioned me in a way that feels village, has talked through her reads in a way that feels village and has been behind for personal reasons. That’s as much as I’m willing to share. Better?
 
FRAME 1

Dubbie () -
AM () -
True () -
Mel (1) - Zenge
Bluey (4) - Lawpy, Dubz, samac, kal
genny (1) - AM
Zuriburi () -
Samac (1) - Sporty
Puppy (1) - violet
Octopus (-) -
Fluff (2) - alley, puppy
Violet (1) - April
Lawpy (1) - Oxygen
Ivy (1) - genny
Vis (3)- zuri, True, Blue
April (2) - Meats, Mel
Zenge () -
kal (4) - shelty, fluff, Vis, octopus

Frame 2 Official *FINAL* Voting Tally (as of post 2324- when I closed vote)

Vis (1) - Octo
Meats (1) - AM
Violet (1) - Lawpy
OctoDoc (1) - blue
zuri () -
Sporty (2) - Mel, True
Oxygen ()
Ivy (7) - April, ykal, violet, jfluff, Vis, zuri, vmh
Fluff (5) - Sporty, Zenge, potentialshelter, alley, puppydr
April ()

Leading: *freeshrugs*

Ineligible: samac


@Melchizedek for day to - idk what size pack to consider we are playing with here but I think there is a least 1 wolf on either "wagon" here -- im feeling vis, sporty. One wolf on another wolf (ie octo) and one just throwing off or on a wagon (logically id say the fluff more likely than the ivy but my soft list pings on ivy).

if i apply that to day 1 - if i speculate vis as wolf would be adding bluey to possible pack.
 
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Just popping in to say that I am online but extremely bogged down with assignments at the moment (and don't even want to think about catching up with the 20 thread pages I'm behind on), so please quote or tag me if you need me and I'll be here but otherwise I won't be jumping in much
 
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Could someone with more time than me find make a list of everyone who has openly told the thread they had an action used on them and what it was? Sorry, I would do it myself but I've got to run in soon.

Checking in with you again @puppydogtor how has Octo's activity been in the PM and what's your read on them based off of that?

Based on everything today, the wolfy list in my head currently is (vaguely in order from most to least) Octo, Vis, Zenge, Mel, Sporty, yk and meats. Not voting Octo today since they haven't said much in general and I'd feel bad if it turned out they were just an overwhelmed villager. puppy's response might change that though.

Still sticking with Vis for now. Sorry samac, but you're currently pretty neutral (maybe a little village-leaning) and I don't have the same evidence as you.

I have to go stick some data loggers on cows in 10 minutes, but I'll be back about an hour before the end of the cycle.
.
@cubsrule4e I think you forgot my Vis vote.
violetvett said:
For now, unyeet Alley, yeet Vis. Still have concerns about them not participating in the 3-way villager tie from D2.
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