Break it down for me please...MD vs DO

[RadMD1day]

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😕 I am a little confused. Both schools require 4 yr. both require MCAT .. both are 4 year training. Both choose specialty like Radiology(right?)..
so why is it that when you have a lower MCAT score and lower gpa people say apply to DO....

 

[Robizzle]

"Here we go again..."

<Insert beating dead horse picture here>

"Troll..."

"Use the search function"

":Grabs Popcorn:"


Hmm did I miss any?

 

[mikeinsd]

well, if one of the people that likes to start stuff is around, you might hear something like

"they are totally different, DO sucks!"


...and then boom, fireball 😱

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

awesome... i was waiting for one of these

 

[Auron]

MD vs DO

If you are like most people, you probably don't know the difference between a medical doctor, MD, and an osteopathic doctor, DO.
DOs and MDs are alike in many ways:

• Applicants to both DO and MD colleges typically have a four-year undergraduate degree with an emphasis on science courses.
• Both DOs and MDs complete four years of basic medical education.
• After medical school, both DOs and MDs can choose to practice in a specialty area of medicine—such as psychiatry, surgery, obstetrics, or sports medicine—after completing a residency program (typically two to six years of additional training).
• Both DOs and MDs must pass comparable state licensing examinations.
• DOs and MDs both practice in fully accredited and licensed hospitals and medical centers.
• Both are medical doctors; MD is specifically Doctor of Medicine and DO is Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

What Makes DOs Different?

• DOs can perform surgery, child delivery, treat patients, and prescribe medications in hospitals and clinic settings.
• DOs look at the "total person." Osteopathic physicians focus on preventive care. Instead of just treating specific symptoms or illnesses, they look at the whole body.
• DOs receive extra training in the musculoskeletal system, which is comprised of the nerves, muscles, and bones. This training gives DOs a better understanding of how an injury or illness in one part of the body can affect another part of the body; therefore, DOs have a therapeutic and diagnostic advantage.
• DOs use what is called osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT). OMT is a technique in which the DOs use their hands to diagnose injury and illness, giving special attention to the joints, bones, muscles, and nerves. Manipulations improve circulation, which in turn, creates a normal nerve and blood supply, enabling the body to heal itself.

http://www.stronghealth.com/services/primarycare/domd.cfm

 

[RadMD1day]

MD vs DO

If you are like most people, you probably don't know the difference between a medical doctor, MD, and an osteopathic doctor, DO.
DOs and MDs are alike in many ways:

• Applicants to both DO and MD colleges typically have a four-year undergraduate degree with an emphasis on science courses.
• Both DOs and MDs complete four years of basic medical education.
• After medical school, both DOs and MDs can choose to practice in a specialty area of medicine—such as psychiatry, surgery, obstetrics, or sports medicine—after completing a residency program (typically two to six years of additional training).
• Both DOs and MDs must pass comparable state licensing examinations.
• DOs and MDs both practice in fully accredited and licensed hospitals and medical centers.
• Both are medical doctors; MD is specifically Doctor of Medicine and DO is Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

What Makes DOs Different?

• DOs can perform surgery, child delivery, treat patients, and prescribe medications in hospitals and clinic settings.
• DOs look at the "total person." Osteopathic physicians focus on preventive care. Instead of just treating specific symptoms or illnesses, they look at the whole body.
• DOs receive extra training in the musculoskeletal system, which is comprised of the nerves, muscles, and bones. This training gives DOs a better understanding of how an injury or illness in one part of the body can affect another part of the body; therefore, DOs have a therapeutic and diagnostic advantage.
• DOs use what is called osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT). OMT is a technique in which the DOs use their hands to diagnose injury and illness, giving special attention to the joints, bones, muscles, and nerves. Manipulations improve circulation, which in turn, creates a normal nerve and blood supply, enabling the body to heal itself.

http://www.stronghealth.com/services/primarycare/domd.cfm

Thank you for taking my question seriously. I appreciate the positive feedback!🙂

 

[BlackSails]

DOs schools are also easier to get into. According to the mentoring forum, DOs are also disadvantaged when applying for super sub specialties (the example in the thread is pediatric neurosurgery)

 

[gotmeds?]

MD vs DO

If you are like most people, you probably don't know the difference between a medical doctor, MD, and an osteopathic doctor, DO.
DOs and MDs are alike in many ways:

• Applicants to both DO and MD colleges typically have a four-year undergraduate degree with an emphasis on science courses.
• Both DOs and MDs complete four years of basic medical education.
• After medical school, both DOs and MDs can choose to practice in a specialty area of medicine—such as psychiatry, surgery, obstetrics, or sports medicine—after completing a residency program (typically two to six years of additional training).
• Both DOs and MDs must pass comparable state licensing examinations.
• DOs and MDs both practice in fully accredited and licensed hospitals and medical centers.
• Both are medical doctors; MD is specifically Doctor of Medicine and DO is Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

What Makes DOs Different?

• DOs can perform surgery, child delivery, treat patients, and prescribe medications in hospitals and clinic settings.
• DOs look at the "total person." Osteopathic physicians focus on preventive care. Instead of just treating specific symptoms or illnesses, they look at the whole body.
• DOs receive extra training in the musculoskeletal system, which is comprised of the nerves, muscles, and bones. This training gives DOs a better understanding of how an injury or illness in one part of the body can affect another part of the body; therefore, DOs have a therapeutic and diagnostic advantage.
• DOs use what is called osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT). OMT is a technique in which the DOs use their hands to diagnose injury and illness, giving special attention to the joints, bones, muscles, and nerves. Manipulations improve circulation, which in turn, creates a normal nerve and blood supply, enabling the body to heal itself.

http://www.stronghealth.com/services/primarycare/domd.cfm

Clearly DOs are in every way superior to MDs. Thank you for the informative post. I shall withdraw my MD acceptances post-haste and reapply exclusively to DO schools!

 

[GuzzyRon]

I shall withdraw my MD acceptances post-haste and reapply exclusively to DO schools!

Me too.

 

[Lorienne7]

What Makes DOs Different?

• DOs can perform surgery, child delivery, treat patients, and prescribe medications in hospitals and clinic settings.

And MDs can't? 😕

 

[spicedmanna]

so why is it that when you have a lower MCAT score and lower gpa people say apply to DO....

DOs schools are also easier to get into.

Exactly. If you are talking in terms of average statistics (MCAT and UGPA), then you are right.

 

[madamebovary]

look either one you choose, you will still be a doctor. Just that some sub-specialty will be utterly impossible for a DO to get. Just watch out for the questions when you are interviewed by a DO school, because you need to know the difference. Other than that, your all set= apply to both MD and DO.

 

[Pansit]

😕 I am a little confused. Both schools require 4 yr. both require MCAT .. both are 4 year training. Both choose specialty like Radiology(right?)..
so why is it that when you have a lower MCAT score and lower gpa people say apply to DO....

Why D.O Medical School have lower average numbers:

1.) Many pre-meds have no idea that they even exist, so they dont even apply. (Plus there are only 25 D.O vs. 125 MD schools)

2.) Pre-med misconceptions also stop some from applying, such as DO's cant specialize or DO's will have a hard time finding jobs after residency..etc. Just part of the lack of knowledge about the profession

2.) Many people associate more prestige with the M.D., probably because your harvards, johns hopkins..etc are allopathic schools with huge research dollars.

3.) D.O. schools are definitely more non-trad friendly than allopathic schools, so these applicants tend to lack a bit less on academic numbers but greater on real world experience.

4.) Some people do not feel comfortable with the osteopathic philosophy

5.) thats all i can think of for now...

So, most of these reasons deplete the quantity of applicants to osteopathic schools, which decrease the overall competition and allows people with lower gpa's or mcats to get accepted. But, just because you may have the numbers does not guarantee an acceptance. DO schools still have high standards when accepting their student body, as they often place large emphasis on health-care experience, extra-curriculars, and the interview. The fact that almost every student in each D.O. school end up in some residency, attest to the fact that they dont just accept anyone. So dont ever think that you are guarenteed a spot because you have a certain gpa or mcat score.

 

[thanecyan]

Well said

 

[Kodiak]

 

[GAdoc]

Why D.O Medical School have lower average numbers:

1.) Many pre-meds have no idea that they even exist, so they dont even apply. (Plus there are only 25 D.O vs. 125 MD schools)

2.) Pre-med misconceptions also stop some from applying, such as DO's cant specialize or DO's will have a hard time finding jobs after residency..etc. Just part of the lack of knowledge about the profession

2.) Many people associate more prestige with the M.D., probably because your harvards, johns hopkins..etc are allopathic schools with huge research dollars.

3.) D.O. schools are definitely more non-trad friendly than allopathic schools, so these applicants tend to lack a bit less on academic numbers but greater on real world experience.

4.) Some people do not feel comfortable with the osteopathic philosophy

5.) thats all i can think of for now...

So, most of these reasons deplete the quantity of applicants to osteopathic schools, which decrease the overall competition and allows people with lower gpa's or mcats to get accepted. But, just because you may have the numbers does not guarantee an acceptance. DO schools still have high standards when accepting their student body, as they often place large emphasis on health-care experience, extra-curriculars, and the interview. The fact that almost every student in each D.O. school end up in some residency, attest to the fact that they dont just accept anyone. So dont ever think that you are guarenteed a spot because you have a certain gpa or mcat score.

I agree with what you've said, but I'd also like to give fellow pre-meds the benefit of the doubt and hope they actually do their research before just choosing a career path. Medicine in general is a huge choice, but deciding on DO vs MD is also a huge choice. Last year, I was accepted to a DO school. I committed myself to reasearching it and didn't just say "oh, great now I'm accepted and a doctor is a doctor". That's oversimplifying it just a little much.

I read "The DOs" as well as A.T. Still's own handbook, "Osteopathy". I'm sorry, but the guy was a nut job. Well, that's not fair. He at least recognized that modern medicine (in his time) was insufficient and often did more harm than good. But he also went too far the other direction and ended up creating a cult-like following of doctors who believed that smallpox was curable with OMT. In his handbook he even describes how!

Modern DOs are completely competent physicians. I'd not argue with that. But, they also should be fully aware of where they come from and WHY there is a stigma. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective) the stigma is disappearing, but only as the two degrees (MD and DO) merge closer together. There is not a stigma because schools like Harvard and JHU are allopathic. There is a stigma because osteopathy was a spliter faction from allopathic medicine of the 19th century and it was the only one with the tenacity to make it through to today.

I'm not criticizing DOs in any way. I'm just saying, don't take yourselves too seriously. In the end, I choose to wait it out for an MD school. It had nothing to do with whether or not the DO school where I was accepted would turn me into a great physician. It also had nothing to do with a stigma. It was just a matter of preference.

 

[Tired]

[*]DOs look at the "total person." Osteopathic physicians focus on preventive care. Instead of just treating specific symptoms or illnesses, they look at the whole body.

Just once I'd like to hear somebody tell me what the hell that actually means.

 

[Depakote]

Just once I'd like to hear somebody tell me what the hell that actually means.

Well, if I attend a MD school, upon graduation, I will get something akin to superman x-ray vision that will only allow me to see the organ system affected by the problem at hand. So if a patient walks in with gastroenteritis, I'm not going to see a person, I'll see a floating colon.

Now if I go to a DO school, I won't have any super powers, I'll just see whole people walking around. But I'll get to use my amazing kung fu OMT skillz on them.

 

[mongrel]

Someone let me know if this is totally out of line. But as I read about MD's, DO's, and use of OMT- is it fair to say that if there was a spectrum with say Allopathic doctors on one end and Chiropractic doctors on the other end, a DO would fall somewhere in between (albeit much MUCH closer to the allopathic side)?

 

[Depakote]

Someone let me know if this is totally out of line. But as I read about MD's, DO's, and use of OMT- is it fair to say that if there was a spectrum with say Allopathic doctors on one end and Chiropractic doctors on the other end, a DO would fall somewhere in between (albeit much MUCH closer to the allopathic side)?

That's not really accurate.

OMT is a tool that DO's have available to them. Many DO's (aprox 2/3) do not use OMT at all during their daily practice. When they do, they will generally use it for pain control or to supplement a therapeutic regiment they have prescribed.

Differences between OMT and Chiropractic Therapy
OMT is not limited to spinal manipulation (unlike chiro). OMT can be applied to muscle and other soft tissue and as I mentioned above, OMT is something that is intended to be used after the orders have been written before the patient is treated with the primary treatment. It is quick and easy, providing immediate results. Chiropractic therapy is intended to be the primary therapy.

 

[foofish]

What Makes DOs Different?

]DOs can perform surgery, child delivery, treat patients, and prescribe medications in hospitals and clinic settings.

And MDs can't? 😕

Yeah, my thoughts exactly.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

 

[Dookter]

Oh snap, that is a good one. Much better than the little one.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Just once I'd like to hear somebody tell me what the hell that actually means.

My understanding of that phrase is that in general, allopathic medicine trains people to focus on and treat the symptoms where they occur. That is, the patient has back pain, you treat back pain some way or other. Whereas, the "whole person" concept will take into account their other systems and what part they have to play in the causing of the back pain.

And MDs can't? 😕

It is more simply pointing out that BOTH can do the same things. Not that one can and the other can't. 🙄

Differences between OMT and Chiropractic Therapy
OMT is not limited to spinal manipulation (unlike chiro). OMT can be applied to muscle and other soft tissue and as I mentioned above, OMT is something that is intended to be used after the orders have been written before the patient is treated with the primary treatment. It is quick and easy, providing immediate results. Chiropractic therapy is intended to be the primary therapy.

Another big thing is that chiropractic therapy for the most part, is high velocity manipulation. OMT can use it, but uses a much more gentle, less 'violent' manipulation.

 

[baylormed]

It is more simply pointing out that BOTH can do the same things. Not that one can and the other can't. 🙄

Before you go all :rollyeyes: 🙄 at us look at the post and see that that particular sentence is under "DOs can:", which is why people are posting "And MDs can't?" in the first place. He could have posted it in the first category which I'm guessing is where it is supposed to go, but it's in the mistaken section.

 

[Old ortho]

There is another difference. Many foreign countries do not recognize DO degrees from U.S.A., but will recognize M.D. degrees.

 

[Depakote]

There is another difference. Many foreign countries do not recognize DO degrees from U.S.A., but will recognize M.D. degrees.

blah blah... here's a list of DO international practice rights.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Before you go all :rollyeyes: 🙄 at us look at the post and see that that particular sentence is under "DOs can:", which is why people are posting "And MDs can't?" in the first place. He could have posted it in the first category which I'm guessing is where it is supposed to go, but it's in the mistaken section.

It's a pretty sarcastic comment to say, "And MD's can't?" in response to that post. I mean, clearly that ISN'T what they were saying, or implying. Thus the 🙄

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Why D.O Medical School have lower average numbers:

1.) Many pre-meds have no idea that they even exist, so they dont even apply. (Plus there are only 25 D.O vs. 125 MD schools)

2.) Pre-med misconceptions also stop some from applying, such as DO's cant specialize or DO's will have a hard time finding jobs after residency..etc. Just part of the lack of knowledge about the profession

2.) Many people associate more prestige with the M.D., probably because your harvards, johns hopkins..etc are allopathic schools with huge research dollars.

3.) D.O. schools are definitely more non-trad friendly than allopathic schools, so these applicants tend to lack a bit less on academic numbers but greater on real world experience.

4.) Some people do not feel comfortable with the osteopathic philosophy

5.) thats all i can think of for now...

So, most of these reasons deplete the quantity of applicants to osteopathic schools, which decrease the overall competition and allows people with lower gpa's or mcats to get accepted. But, just because you may have the numbers does not guarantee an acceptance. DO schools still have high standards when accepting their student body, as they often place large emphasis on health-care experience, extra-curriculars, and the interview. The fact that almost every student in each D.O. school end up in some residency, attest to the fact that they dont just accept anyone. So dont ever think that you are guarenteed a spot because you have a certain gpa or mcat score.

People also apply DO simply because it is their backup when they have lower UGPA and MCAT. Regardless of what qualities the field of DO actually has, regardless of what makes them special, regardless of whatever misconceptions there are about them, people still see it as a backup and treat it as such.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

It's a pretty sarcastic comment to say, "And MD's can't?" in response to that post. I mean, clearly that ISN'T what they were saying, or implying. Thus the 🙄

You gotta be kidding me. The thing was titled "MD vs DO" and they first gave similarities between the two and then gave differences between the two. They were blatantly saying DOs do those things listed in the first bullet point and MDs don't, as ridiculous as it sounds.

 

[foofish]

It's a pretty sarcastic comment to say, "And MD's can't?" in response to that post. I mean, clearly that ISN'T what they were saying, or implying. Thus the 🙄

Um, actually, that is exactly what it said. And I quote: "What Makes DOs Different [from MDs]? DOs can perform surgery, child delivery, treat patients, and prescribe medications in hospitals and clinic settings." Which is clearly incorrect, and is why a few of us objected. We're not saying that DOs can't do those things, just that, say, treating patients and prescribing medication isn't something exclusive to DOs as the post claimed.

 

[medhacker]

All the previous is weak and lame

DO schools have the better looking students, period. Kaput. 😎

 

[SupergreenMnM]

blah blah... here's a list of DO international practice rights.

Hmm...it does seem like there are several major countries DOs can't practice in or are very limited (France, Greece, Japan, Mexico, Norway, Ireland, SA, UAE, Italy) and tons of "unknowns". 😕

 

[medhacker]

Hmm...it does seem like there are several major countries DOs can't practice in or are very limited (France, Greece, Japan, Mexico, Norway, Ireland, SA, UAE, Italy) and tons of "unknowns". 😕

Greece and Italy accepts DOs fully, the process is very difficult as it is for any foreign physician MD or DO.

The unknowns usually mean no DO has yet applied for licensure in these countries - it does not mean rights have been denied.

Also, countries which in the past had denied practice rights have recently allowed full practice (e.i. Great britain).

So this is a dynamic process, rather moving towards full acceptance worldwide.

 

[Depakote]

Greece and Italy accepts DOs fully, the process is very difficult as it is for any foreign physician MD or DO.

The unknowns usually mean no DO has yet applied for licensure in these countries - it does not mean rights have been denied.

Also, countries which in the past had denied practice rights have recently allowed full practice (e.i. Great britain).

So this is a dynamic process, rather moving towards full acceptance worldwide.

👍

All the previous is weak and lame

DO schools have the better looking students, period. Kaput. 😎

Tru Dat.

 

[Orthodoc40]

You gotta be kidding me. The thing was titled "MD vs DO" and they first gave similarities between the two and then gave differences between the two. They were blatantly saying DOs do those things listed in the first bullet point and MDs don't, as ridiculous as it sounds.

Um, actually, that is exactly what it said. And I quote: "What Makes DOs Different [from MDs]? DOs can perform surgery, child delivery, treat patients, and prescribe medications in hospitals and clinic settings." Which is clearly incorrect, and is why a few of us objected. We're not saying that DOs can't do those things, just that, say, treating patients and prescribing medication isn't something exclusive to DOs as the post claimed.

Yah - okay. So if you guys really want to read it literally (and therefore misinterpret it), that's what they were saying. You were right, I was oh so wrong. Feel better now?

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

stop . . . hammer time!

 

[Lorienne7]

Yah - okay. So if you guys really want to read it literally (and therefore misinterpret it), that's what they were saying. You were right, I was oh so wrong. Feel better now?

Look, the post was misleading. If someone comes on this forum and really doesn't know what DOs and MDs do then that bullet point can be confusing. We were merely trying to clarify. It's not a big deal. No need to get all weird about it.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Look, the post was misleading. If someone comes on this forum and really doesn't know what DOs and MDs do then that bullet point can be confusing. We were merely trying to clarify. It's not a big deal. No need to get all weird about it.

Yes, you're right. I didn't mean to get jerky. Sorry.

 

[TheAmazingGOB]

Well, the joke used to be what do you call someone who can't get into a MD medical school???
-A DDS!

Now it's...
-A DO!!

 

[Green Pirate]

Well, if I attend a MD school, upon graduation, I will get something akin to superman x-ray vision that will only allow me to see the organ system affected by the problem at hand. So if a patient walks in with gastroenteritis, I'm not going to see a person, I'll see a floating colon.

Now if I go to a DO school, I won't have any super powers, I'll just see whole people walking around. But I'll get to use my amazing kung fu OMT skillz on them.

I lol'd pretty hard at that one. this thread has a winnar!👍

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Well, the joke used to be what do you call someone who can't get into a MD medical school???
-A DDS!

Now it's...
-A DO!!

Ah the direct approach. I am looking forward to the next posts

 

[medhacker]

Well, the joke used to be what do you call someone who can't get into a MD medical school???
-A DDS!

Now it's...
-A DO!!

Even most DDSs earn as much or more than most MDs
Makes you wonder who the joke is on...

 

[life_saver]

Look, the post was misleading. If someone comes on this forum and really doesn't know what DOs and MDs do then that bullet point can be confusing. We were merely trying to clarify. It's not a big deal. No need to get all weird about it.

The post was misleading. But honestly, what rock would someone have had to crawl out from under to not know what a MD can do? But they have somehow ended up on SDN?

Let's face it MD vs DO threads are really just threads that inform newbs that DOs are not dentists or limited to eye exams...that's until they get going a bit and end in expletives and users getting on probation and/or banned.
So lets get this party started!!!

 

[RadMD1day]

OOOPs...I may have opened up a can, sorry. I was unclear of the difference...obviously . I didn't mean to get everyone's feather ruffled,,just an explanation.
Obviously it seems that those who are allopathic are sorta looking down on DO. that's what I am getting. So if I don't get in to M.D. and have to go to DO..will I be looked down on by the med field and patients?

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Obviously it seems that those who are allopathic are sorta looking down on DO. that's what I am getting. So if I don't get in to M.D. and have to go to DO..will I be looked down on by the med field and patients?

Probably. Regardless of what qualities DO has, and regardless of whether this stigma is warranted or not, there is a chance you would encounter MDs who have disdain for DOs. Then again you might encounter ones who are more open minded. But I'd say the former more than the latter.

 

[RadMD1day]

The post was misleading. But honestly, what rock would someone have had to crawl out from under to not know what a MD can do? But they have somehow ended up on SDN?]
👎

I guess some of us are just spending most of out time studying, and in our prereq's, and with our family and friends.
BTW...SDN is designed to help answer questions for those of us who are "under rocks" most of our lives...

 

[Timmythemic22]

I guess some of us are just spending most of out time studying, and in our prereq's, and with our family and friends.
BTW...SDN is designed to help answer questions for those of us who are "under rocks" most of our lives...

You're aspiring towards medical school and can't use the SEARCH function?

 

[RadMD1day]

You're aspiring towards medical school and can't use the SEARCH function?

I thought this was more of a support group instead a bunch of smart a@@s

 

[Law2Doc]

OOOPs...I may have opened up a can, sorry. I was unclear of the difference...obviously . I didn't mean to get everyone's feather ruffled,,just an explanation.
Obviously it seems that those who are allopathic are sorta looking down on DO. that's what I am getting. So if I don't get in to M.D. and have to go to DO..will I be looked down on by the med field and patients?

I suggest you do a search to read some actually reasonable explanations of MDs vs DOs. Auron's post is horribly skewed (talking about DO's "better understanding" and the like) and simply doesn't paint a fair picture of the distinctions.

Generally MD vs DO threads get shut down as a result of flaming between the two camps. Which is why you are getting the dead horse and "do a search" responses you are getting. Read more, post less on this topic.