Bryn Mawr / Goucher postbac?

[International8]

Hello everyone,

Like many other people here, I'm looking at applying to a number of postbac programs, and am just trying to get a sense of some of the different ones, specifically Bryn Mawr and Goucher.

Please note this is not looking for stats... this is about finding some of the subtle differences between two very, very strong programs. From initial research, here is what I think might be true:

Goucher = smaller, more intimate, more personalized care (i.e. more hand-holding in the form of homework assignments, etc).

Bryn Mawr = More students, better neighboorhood, more established program

Both schools mostly have classes with postbac sections (Goucher is all postbac), both seem to have excellent advising, excellent placement rates, and very few regrets from students. Bryn Mawr has the added uncertainty of being at an all-women's university and a much more accessible university social life. Another note; students from both programs seem to appreciate the curve (when applicable), and it seems that students tend to overprepare for tests and get extremely good grades during the postbac year (which makes total sense).

Are there any other thoughts from those who might be attending / have recently attended each program? Or any thoughts on the postbac experience as a whole? Please let us know; I can't be the only one on these boards looking at these programs and/or deciding whether to do a postbac year or simply take classes at the local state school.

Thank you so much for your time, and talk to you guys soon.

^_^

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[Geographer]

International-

I can only speak for the Goucher program (I'm a current student there), but it seems like you have a pretty good idea of what a post-bacc program entails, especially at one of these two schools.

As you suggested, the Goucher program is very intimate with only 30 students in each of your classes (15 in labs). This has several effects. First of all, it's almost impossible for you to not get to know your professors. Even aside from the added component of the post-bac program, it seems like Goucher professors are far more interested in the teaching aspect of their job than professors that you might find at a large research institution. On top of this, the small class sizes really help to foster these student-teacher relationships.

Of course, it also helps the administration get to know you really well. For example, even though I'm only in October of my post-bac year, I'm meeting with the administration to help plan my med school application. Personally, I just don't think you can beat the personal attention that you get from one of the specialized post-bac programs.

The small size of the Goucher program also helps to foster a nice sense of community. Everyone knows their classmates' backgrounds, motivations, strengths and weaknesses, and as a result, there is a lot of cooperation between Post-Bacs to help one another succeed in the program. We do tend to be excessively prepared, but I also think that we might have wider interests than the average undergrad pre-med student so it's not all work and no play.

In terms of other things, the Goucher program also hires an outgoing post-bac student each year to serve as TA for the incoming class. This is immensely helpful in that we have someone who can answer our questions, both about courses and about post-bac-dom in general. Because the TA knows how to succeed in the program, it also helps to ensure that students understand what is expected of them from Day 1. They can show the incoming class how things work in the program.

Additionally, contrary to what you said in your note, there are no curves in the Goucher program. Everyone gets the grade that they earn, which may be part of the reason that there is no competition in the program. Besides, there is no reason for the curve-- we generally do very well in our classes to the point that a curve would probably do more harm than good.

As far as negatives, you are right in your suggestion that the Goucher program isn't particularly integrated with the social scene on campus, but I would add that post-bacs aren't looking to be integrated because they are usually much older than even the seniors on campus. I think you'll find this at other schools, including BM. Furthermore, Baltimore isn't in the most exciting of cities, but Towson is a safe and convenient suburb outside of the city so Goucher certainly isn't in a bad neighborhood. We're also only 15 minutes from downtown Baltimore, which means that you can have all the opportunities that the city presents even if you don't live there.

Phew-- there's my novella for the day. If you have any other questions, let us know!

 

[kaleidoscopic]

I'm applying to both programs right now, and I read that Goucher has scholarships for postbacc students. Do you know when they choose the scholarship recipients and how?

 

[International8]

Hi Geographer,

Thanks so much for the post. I know you are SO BUSY so I really do appreciate the time. From what I've been hearing, Goucher is ridiculously busy from classes and study and everything else... so the fact that you're on here... thank you. I really mean that.

On that note: I think I have to apologize. I didn't mean to imply that being disconnected from undergrad activities is a bad thing, and I think Goucher is awesome. Also didn't mean to say that Towson was a bad spot, but I've been to Bryn Mawr and personally know that the area is totally beautiful. Does it matter? Probably not; scenery probably should be pretty far down the list of differentiating points to consider (if in fact is a differentiating point, which it may not be).

Point taken about the student-teacher relationship, and about the TA. And the curve (or lack thereof), which is pretty neat. Also, point should probably be made about the dedicated MCAT class, though I guess that starts in the spring...?

I guess I have one more major question, and this is to anyone who has recently attended or is currently attending either Bryn Mawr or Goucher (or another post-bac, I guess).

What surprised you most about the program / program experience?

Thanks for the time, and talk to you soon. Best of luck for the rest of the year!

^_^

 

[Geographer]

I'm applying to both programs right now, and I read that Goucher has scholarships for postbacc students. Do you know when they choose the scholarship recipients and how?

There are some partial merit scholarships for the Fall and Spring semesters. I believe they are given out after you've been accepted.

On that note: I think I have to apologize. I didn't mean to imply that being disconnected from undergrad activities is a bad thing, and I think Goucher is awesome. Also didn't mean to say that Towson was a bad spot, but I've been to Bryn Mawr and personally know that the area is totally beautiful. Does it matter? Probably not; scenery probably should be pretty far down the list of differentiating points to consider (if in fact is a differentiating point, which it may not be).

Point taken about the student-teacher relationship, and about the TA. And the curve (or lack thereof), which is pretty neat. Also, point should probably be made about the dedicated MCAT class, though I guess that starts in the spring...?

I guess I have one more major question, and this is to anyone who has recently attended or is currently attending either Bryn Mawr or Goucher (or another post-bac, I guess).

What surprised you most about the program / program experience?

Don't worry! I wasn't offended at all by any of your comments-- I just wanted to clarify a few points. I also don't think it it's unreasonable at all to consider where you'll be. You'll be busy during your post-bac year, of course, but you will definitely interact with the local town and so you should like where you're living.

As far as the MCAT class goes, it actually runs all year. We won't be able to work on the BioSci or PhySci portions of the test until next Spring when we've learned more chemistry, bio, and physics, but we can work (and are working) on the other two sections this semester.

To answer your question, I'd say that most surprising part of the experience is how much everyone wants you to succeed. Your classmates, the administration, the professors-- they all want you to do well and are really willing to put in the time to make sure you learn. It's not a walk in the park, but you couldn't be in a more supportive atmosphere.

 

[flip26]

The biggest advantage of formal post baccs is in the scheduling of classes. If you go it alone at a state uni say, through the extension arm with your non degree seeking status, you may find that you are the very lowest on the totem pole when it comes to scheduling priorities, and you will find it is very difficult to get into the high demand pre med pre req classes.

Other than that, the "hand holding" aspect is over rated. And they charge you plenty for that - the formal post baccs are not cheap.

The top post baccs can boast high success rates for their grads because they screen applicants and admit only those who are most likely to succeed, namely people with strong UG GPAs and a strong sense of what they are getting into as evidenced by ECs, etc. None of these post baccs can turn a sow's ear into a silk purse...so don't be too impressed by their placement rates...

And beware that some post baccs with high placement rates also have high attrition rates - people drop out, and the number of people who end up applying to med school is much lower than the number who started in the program. Investigate this very carefully...

 

[NewmansOwn]

I agree with what flip26 said, especially the contention that formal postbac programs aren't by any means magic.

Since this thread is specifically about BM and Goucher, I'll only add that these two programs do not have high attrition rates; pretty much everyone finishes. My year at BM only saw three dropouts and even this was generally considered to be unusually high.

Of course, as has already been pointed out, this may be due to the fact that the caliber of matriculants to these two programs is so high. This is similar to medical school, where you will also find drop outs to be relatively rare.

 

[flip26]

I agree with what flip26 said, especially the contention that formal postbac programs aren't by any means magic.

Since this thread is specifically about BM and Goucher, I'll only add that these two programs do not have high attrition rates; pretty much everyone finishes. My year at BM only saw three dropouts and even this was generally considered to be unusually high.

Of course, as has already been pointed out, this may be due to the fact that the caliber of matriculants to these two programs is so high. This is similar to medical school, where you will also find drop outs to be relatively rare.

Same was true with my post bacc, but I have heard examples of "big name" school programs that have very high attrition rates, so it is a caveat emptor thing...in general, the easier it is to get accepted at one of these programs, the more likely that attrition is higher if said school sports a high med school placement rate...i.e., not all post bacc placement rates are created equal because of the screening that goes into their admissions.

 

[International8]

Hi Newmans,

Good to see you again, hope you're still doing well.

Flip, that's the reason I'm heavily favoring a top top program; the advising itself pays for the cost (I'm a non-trad applicant, not sure which med schools would value my app). With the other programs, many of which do have a higher drop out rate, it also happens that many of them have relatively weak advising (notable exception seems to be Hopkins), so I'm not really sure whether those programs would be worth my money, especially when taking the courses at night at a state school would also allow for a day job and gaining $ instead of losing it.

Of course, the courses most worth going to are also be the hardest to get into (which includes Scripps). That's part of the fun, though, isn't it?

Is there anyone else out there who wants to share what surprised them the most about Bryn Mawr or Goucher? I think it would really help us get a feel for what we're looking to get into.

Thanks again and hope all of you are doing well.

P.S. Geographer, thanks for that. Good luck with classes!

 

[flip26]

Flip, that's the reason I'm heavily favoring a top top program; the advising itself pays for the cost (I'm a non-trad applicant, not sure which med schools would value my app).

Not really.

Get a copy of the MSAR and do your own research. The advisors at post baccs do not tell you where to apply...nor should you rely on anybody else to figure that out.

Be aware that at some of these post baccs, they play "favorites" with the students in the cohort. Depending on how they feel about you, that could be good or bad, but remember that they write a committee style letter...

You mention saving money: I agree. I would look into any uni option that would allow for cheap tuition and not getting uprooted from your current location, assuming you are in a location where you would like to stay and can maintain ties to a job, family, etc. I saved a ton of money attending a formal post bacc at my state school...I am positive that I would have been no better off at Goucher, etc, and am especially glad I saved $$$. The cost of a medical education is bad enough without starting off with $50k on the tab for a post bacc...

 

[drizzt3117]

Same was true with my post bacc, but I have heard examples of "big name" school programs that have very high attrition rates,

Columbia has high attrition, that's pretty much the only "name" program...

 

[cetac]

At programs like Goucher and Bryn Mawr you are paying for a few things:

(1) Scheduled classes; no competition for registration - also, at Goucher, no undergrads.

(2) Advisers that know the medical school admissions process for non-trads like no other advisers/committees could ever hope to, or want to.

(3) The social network of the advisers - the relationship they have with prestigious medical schools around the country.

(4) Absurdly low attrition rate.

(5) 1.1 million dollars in merit scholarships for last years entering medical school class (Goucher).

And the list goes on...

There are many reasons to not attend a program like Goucher/Bryn Mawr/Scripps or even JHU, one of which is money. To pretend like nothing is received in turn for that investment, however, is a delusion.

 

[betterlate]

And beware that some post baccs with high placement rates also have high attrition rates - people drop out, and the number of people who end up applying to med school is much lower than the number who started in the program. Investigate this very carefully...

I'd seen this suggestion leveled against Goucher before I interviewed last year. In my interview I asked about the attrition rate, and was told they couldn't remember the last time someone had dropped out of the program. I'm enrolled there now, and they are definitely doing everything they can to help us succeed. One of our class had a family emergency at the end of the summer that caused him to defer the remainder of the program for a year, but he's currently signed up for next year's class, so I'm not counting that towards 'attrition.'

 

[betterlate]

Are there any other thoughts from those who might be attending / have recently attended each program? Or any thoughts on the postbac experience as a whole? Please let us know; I can't be the only one on these boards looking at these programs and/or deciding whether to do a postbac year or simply take classes at the local state school.

Thank you so much for your time, and talk to you guys soon.

^_^

I'm also a current Goucher student, and could not be happier w/ my decision to go here. Our class is supportive and cooperative, and any time someone is having a hard time w/ a subject or an assignment there is no shortage of people stepping up to offer to help. There's a policy of not discussing grades, which I really like, and that seems to go a long way toward protecting the supportive atmosphere.

That said, we are all personally driven. We're here for a reason and not interested in messing up this early in the game, so we all spend the vast majority of our time studying. There are nice things about being surrounded by intelligent people who are all working toward the same goal. By the same token, it can drive up the stress level around test time.

Both the faculty and the staff in the program have have an open-door policy. I regularly drop by Betsy or Sharon's offices just to chat, and have never had a hard time finding time to speak with a prof if I needed clarification on something. While I would imagine this is true at BM as well, I do think it is an advantage of a (relatively) smaller program as opposed to taking classes on your own at a larger university.

I think the subject of where to do your premed course work is one where your mileage may vary. The private, structured programs are certainly expensive, but for a variety of reasons they were definitely the way to go for me, personally. I'm happy w/ the choice I made and would be happy to answer any specific questions you may have about Goucher.

 

[brandon15228]

Flip, you seem a bit critical about the private post-bacs. I understand that that a regular university worked for you, but that is not really the way for everyone. And, truthfully, 50K is chump change for a medical school graduate during the course of a career.

The MSAR prints exactly what the schools send to it, and its often incorrect (see the listings that show Temple and Pitt as private schools-they are public, state-related universities that must show in-state preference) so it is no bible of truth by any means. Admission to medical school is a complex and multi-faceted endeavor, so the expertise of people along the way is paramount. There are people out there that have been assisting students for years and one should not discount that level of knowledge.

As for your accusation of playing favorites, that is common in any educational setting. If you were not a student at one of the privates, your empirical data to support that would be?

Were you successful in gaining admission via the university route? If so, congratulations-but that is not everyone's path.

Not really.

Get a copy of the MSAR and do your own research. The advisors at post baccs do not tell you where to apply...nor should you rely on anybody else to figure that out.

Be aware that at some of these post baccs, they play "favorites" with the students in the cohort. Depending on how they feel about you, that could be good or bad, but remember that they write a committee style letter...

You mention saving money: I agree. I would look into any uni option that would allow for cheap tuition and not getting uprooted from your current location, assuming you are in a location where you would like to stay and can maintain ties to a job, family, etc. I saved a ton of money attending a formal post bacc at my state school...I am positive that I would have been no better off at Goucher, etc, and am especially glad I saved $$$. The cost of a medical education is bad enough without starting off with $50k on the tab for a post bacc...

 

[flip26]

Flip, you seem a bit critical about the private post-bacs. I understand that that a regular university worked for you, but that is not really the way for everyone. And, truthfully, 50K is chump change for a medical school graduate during the course of a career.

The MSAR prints exactly what the schools send to it, and its often incorrect (see the listings that show Temple and Pitt as private schools-they are public, state-related universities that must show in-state preference) so it is no bible of truth by any means. Admission to medical school is a complex and multi-faceted endeavor, so the expertise of people along the way is paramount. There are people out there that have been assisting students for years and one should not discount that level of knowledge.

As for your accusation of playing favorites, that is common in any educational setting. If you were not a student at one of the privates, your empirical data to support that would be?

Were you successful in gaining admission via the university route? If so, congratulations-but that is not everyone's path.

$50k is chump change? Please...

I know people who attended Goucher and they told me about the "favorites" game that goes on there...

Read my signature...Accepted 2014.

 

[cetac]

I know people who attended Goucher and they told me about the "favorites" game that goes on there...

I find it interesting that there are multiple Goucher students in this thread describing the program the exact opposite of you, and yet you still don't hesitate to comment on a program that you have never been a part of, based on the experiences of "people who attended Goucher" that you know.

 

[NewmansOwn]

I agree that 50k isn't chump change -- but Bryn Mawr didn't cost me anywhere near that much. Live like a student and you'll be rewarded down the line.

The bottom line is there are many Goucher and Bryn Mawr postbacs and alumns on this forum -- myself included -- that feel the formal route served us extremely well. Any path that gets you into medical school is the right path for you, however, so pick a route and go for it.

Flip, congrats on your acceptance.

 

[flip26]

I find it interesting that there are multiple Goucher students in this thread describing the program the exact opposite of you, and yet you still don't hesitate to comment on a program that you have never been a part of, based on the experiences of "people who attended Goucher" that you know.

The only thing I have said about some formal post baccs, and specifically Goucher, is that they "play favorites" with members of the cohort when it comes time for school recommendations, linkage programs, etc. None of the Goucher students in this thread have addressed that - nor should they feel they have to - but I still fail to see how what I have alleged is the "exact opposite" of what they have said.

Wise up. It is tough, cruel, and competitive world out there, and this is no less true at post bacc programs. At programs like Goucher, the cream of the crop is in attendance - you better believe that the competition is fierce among these students, and that competition is not just staged in the classroom, but behind the administration's doors where favorites are supported with much more support than others.

 

[flip26]

I agree that 50k isn't chump change -- but Bryn Mawr didn't cost me anywhere near that much. Live like a student and you'll be rewarded down the line.

The bottom line is there are many Goucher and Bryn Mawr postbacs and alumns on this forum -- myself included -- that feel the formal route served us extremely well. Any path that gets you into medical school is the right path for you, however, so pick a route and go for it.

Flip, congrats on your acceptance.

Thanks.

Just to be clear: I also attended a "formal" post bacc, albeit at one of my state universities, but at far less than half the cost of programs like Goucher and BM. I am not bashing formal post bacc programs, just pointing out to people to investigate these programs - talk to students and alumni - to understand the environment, and the benefits of a particular program, versus the costs compared to a state school program.

Most people look at the med school admission rates from the top post bacc programs and that is it - they whip out their check books and pay up. Arguably, if you are "good enough" to get admitted to Goucher, etc., the take away msg is that you should be able to succeed in any post bacc program and, if money matters to you, look at state school options.

Good luck to all involved in this decision.

 

[brandon15228]

Congrats on your acceptance! I'm sorry that I missed your "Class of 2014" signature-it was not at the bottom of the post that I quoted-so there was really no way for me to know what your status was.

I think what you are seeing here is the push back against what a lot of people are seeing as your rather pejorative comments about a number of schools you never attended. This board is about sharing information, not speculation or hearsay, and when you hear medical schools talk about SDN (usually in interviews) it is the hearsay that they rail against. SDN is a valuable tool, but we have to keep things in focus and somewhat in reality when it comes to comments.

Telling fellow members to "wise up" is not only denigrating, but it completely dilutes anything of value you might have to contribute after that comment. People here are just trying to find their way. Most people with any sense of the world know that things are competitive, they need not be reminded by someone that has not even matriculated yet. But education, specifically medical education is not always an adversarial affair-and you are not obligated to make it one!

So what that, I wish you only good things. I hope that a little temperance comes your way as you begin your medical career my friend.

The only thing I have said about some formal post baccs, and specifically Goucher, is that they "play favorites" with members of the cohort when it comes time for school recommendations, linkage programs, etc. None of the Goucher students in this thread have addressed that - nor should they feel they have to - but I still fail to see how what I have alleged is the "exact opposite" of what they have said.

Wise up. It is tough, cruel, and competitive world out there, and this is no less true at post bacc programs. At programs like Goucher, the cream of the crop is in attendance - you better believe that the competition is fierce among these students, and that competition is not just staged in the classroom, but behind the administration's doors where favorites are supported with much more support than others.

 

[flip26]

they need not be reminded by someone that has not even matriculated yet.

Umm, I have not said one negative thing about ANY med school, so I have zero idea what your point is regarding the above.

But I have graduated from college, and have done a post bacc, and prior to doing the post bacc, I did actual research (not just looking around SDN) and I spoke to graduates of some of the very programs mentioned ad nauseum in these threads.

Let's review the comments I made in this thread:

1) some high acceptance rate post baccs have high attrition rates that skew the yield - I did not name any schools - but another poster did, and a little bird told me the same...

2) the hand holding and advisory services of post bacc programs is overrated, and I can say that firsthand because I attended a very highly regarded post bacc program, therefore I contend it is crazy to pay a whole bunch extra for this aspect alone, and...

3) the one that has your panties in a twist is that at some of these post baccs the admin staff plays "favorites" with members of the cohort, and that plays out, both positively and negatively, with the letters they write, the linkage opportunities, and the wonderful "advice" they give to students. Current students are not far enough into the year to see or experience this aspect of life there, so do some independent research on this if it concerns you. (Edit: a current Goucher student sent me a PM to say that there was a change at the top at Goucher, and while my info was accurate before, it no longer is...when I looked at Goucher for entry in 2007, I got info directly from 2 students that there was this "favorites" game played there, but it sounds like that is no longer the case...the take home msg is that you must do your own research on any of these programs and not solely rely on the posts here on SDN)

If you only want to hear the "sunshine and puppy dog" stories on SDN, that is your business, but there is a lot of valuable information on this site, and some of the most valuable info is of the "pejorative" variety...

 

[kaleidoscopic]

I'm in the application process right now, and a big reason I want to attend Bryn Mawr/Goucher-- and one that has not been mentioned so far-- is that they bring in elite students. I'd much rather pay the extra $10k to study among fellow top-tier/Ivy graduates than be surrounded by community college undergrads.

 

[International8]

Hi everyone,

First, thanks for all the comments, and please continue commenting. This thread's got a lot more activity than I thought, and I'm guessing this will increase given that the application season has started.

Kaleidoscope, totally with you, that's a major reason I'm applying too. Am sending out both apps today and we'll see what happens.

Flip, I'm finding your tone disrespectful, and I'm not even involved in the conversation. As a former consultant and military intelligence officer, I learned that a) the manner which you say stuff matters and b) conclusions need to be supported with data. It would have cleared potential misunderstandings if you had justified your comments promptly.

On the research side, I'm finding that every single person I'm talking to is raving about Jodi, Sharon, and Betsy... and all of whom, unlike you, have gone to or are currently attending these programs. Where was your highly regarded post-bac by the way? Was it as highly regarded as, say, BM, Goucher, or Scripps? If not, your comments about the advising might not apply to what we're discussing here.

But they might apply, especially if you've talked to a number of recent BM / Goucher alums and found this to be the case. But, regarding the favorites, I would think this would be the case anywhere. For instance, I play favorites with the undergrads I interview for college admissions; if I'm impressed by them, I champion them, and if I'm not, I don't. Job interviews, the same way. Which is another reason why coming across in a way that doesn't make enemies is an important skill to learn before your career is determined by your formal evaluation in the wards.

Obviously we appreciate the contributions you're making, and your advice to do the research is a good one. Unfortunately, the research I'm still doing is going against what you're saying regarding the advising of BM / Goucher specifically.

But that's why we're discussing, right?

^_^

 

[flip26]

Hi everyone,

First, thanks for all the comments, and please continue commenting. This thread's got a lot more activity than I thought, and I'm guessing this will increase given that the application season has started.

Kaleidoscope, totally with you, that's a major reason I'm applying too. Am sending out both apps today and we'll see what happens.

Flip, I'm finding your tone disrespectful, and I'm not even involved in the conversation. As a former consultant and military intelligence officer, I learned that a) the manner which you say stuff matters and b) conclusions need to be supported with data. It would have cleared potential misunderstandings if you had justified your comments promptly.

On the research side, I'm finding that every single person I'm talking to is raving about Jodi, Sharon, and Betsy... and all of whom, unlike you, have gone to or are currently attending these programs. Where was your highly regarded post-bac by the way? Was it as highly regarded as, say, BM, Goucher, or Scripps? If not, your comments about the advising might not apply to what we're discussing here.

But they might apply, especially if you've talked to a number of recent BM / Goucher alums and found this to be the case. But, regarding the favorites, I would think this would be the case anywhere. For instance, I play favorites with the undergrads I interview for college admissions; if I like them, I champion them, and if I don't, I don't. Job interviews, the same way. Which is why coming across in a way that doesn't make enemies is an important skill to learn before your career is determined by your formal evaluation in the wards.

Obviously we appreciate the contributions you're making, and your advice to do the research is a good one. Unfortunately, the research I'm still doing is going against what you're saying regarding the advising of BM / Goucher specifically.

But that's why we're discussing, right?

^_^

So like Kaleidoscope, you want to be with fellow top tier "Ivy elites?"

I am fairly certain his was a troll post. I would have thought a person with an intelligence background would have a highly developed smell test for BS like that...guess not?

 

[International8]

No, you missed the point.

Kaleidoscope was talking about being surrounded by drive and personal maturity, not in an elitist way. At least, that's how I read it, and that's what I meant by my comment. A class of very driven people makes for a pretty motivating studying environment.

 

[flip26]

No, you missed the point.

Kaleidoscope was talking about being surrounded by drive and personal maturity, not in an elitist way. At least, that's how I read it, and that's what I meant by my comment. A class of very driven people makes for a pretty neat and motivating studying environment.

Go back and read what he wrote - I didn't miss a thing, but I think you did.

Then edit your first "totally with you" comment because he clearly made a jackass elitist comment and you attached yourself to those comments.

I will leave you guys to your own devices. Sorry I dropped in on your post bacc discussion and upset the apple cart.

Good luck.

 

[betterlate]

The only thing I have said about some formal post baccs, and specifically Goucher, is that they "play favorites" with members of the cohort when it comes time for school recommendations, linkage programs, etc. None of the Goucher students in this thread have addressed that - nor should they feel they have to - but I still fail to see how what I have alleged is the "exact opposite" of what they have said.

Wise up. It is tough, cruel, and competitive world out there, and this is no less true at post bacc programs. At programs like Goucher, the cream of the crop is in attendance - you better believe that the competition is fierce among these students, and that competition is not just staged in the classroom, but behind the administration's doors where favorites are supported with much more support than others.

Well, I didn't address the 'favorites' allegation primarily because I have *no idea* what you might be referring to. Not only do I not see anything that smacks of competition among the students, I also don't see the administration playing favorites at all.

The administration doesn't choose linkages for us, so I'm not sure how they *could* play favorites here. We decide for ourselves whether or not we want to try to link. If yes, we pick which program to apply to. The administration is not involved in that decision-making process. While the whole linkage process is the only time during this year we'll be in direct competition with one another, the administration tries to encourage cooperation by letting us know who/how many are considering linking to schools w/ very few slots. That way students who are less interested in that school can look elsewhere, leaving the slots to students who are more interested.

WRT the 'fierce competition' between Goucher students, I don't see anything like that. I have heard that this was true under past direction, but it certainly isn't true of the current class. Nor, I'm given to understand, was it true of last year's class. As I mentioned in my comments above, everyone is consistently supportive. The fact is, we all want to do exceptionally well, but not at any one else's expense. If I see anything, it is students making a point of helping each other.

I'm sorry to hear that the students you talked to did not enjoy their experience at Goucher. However, their bad experiences do not define the program as a whole or every incoming class. I think you are drawing very broad conclusions on the basis of relatively limited information.

 

[flip26]

WRT the 'fierce competition' between Goucher students, I don't see anything like that. I have heard that this was true under past direction, but it certainly isn't true of the current class.

As I noted in an earlier post, my information was from 2007. Thus my mistake in this thread was not spelling that out in CAPS...but as you note, Goucher had this rep just a couple of years ago, which is exactly what I was talking about...sounds like it is a bowl of cherries now, so no worries!

Final note: according to what a little bird told me, the malignancy that was at Goucher moved to another highly touted post bacc, one that SDNers fawn over...I will let you go getters figure that one out on your own.

Adios.

 

[betterlate]

Final note: according to what a little bird told me, the malignancy that was at Goucher moved to another highly touted post bacc, one that SDNers fawn over...I will let you go getters figure that one out on your own.

Adios.

Yeah, I've heard that from multiple local sources, as well. Also based on recent convo w/ Goucher admins, it sounds like there used to be a culture of bringing in students based solely on stats w/o any consideration for personality of the class as a whole, which supports what you heard about crazy competitiveness. In addition to which, the acceptance rate stat used to be maintained by driving out any students who didn't look like they could make it. All of which would have made for a highly stressful environment.

And, from things I've heard, those practices have carried over into this other postbacc. Although, I should be clear hear: that last statement is total hearsay. I've only heard that second & third-hand, and can't support the statement. Grain of salt, etc etc.

 

[flip26]

Yeah, I've heard that from multiple local sources, as well. Also based on recent convo w/ Goucher admins, it sounds like there used to be a culture of bringing in students based solely on stats w/o any consideration for personality of the class as a whole, which supports what you heard about crazy competitiveness. In addition to which, the acceptance rate stat used to be maintained by driving out any students who didn't look like they could make it. All of which would have made for a highly stressful environment.

And, from things I've heard, those practices have carried over into this other postbacc. Although, I should be clear hear: that last statement is total hearsay. I've only heard that second & third-hand, and can't support the statement. Grain of salt, etc etc.

Yes, god forbid anyone mention the name of this malignant post bacc unless they actually attended the program - we don't want any second hand / hearsay information on SDN, even when it turns out that there was validity to it.

 

[NewmansOwn]

What on earth are you two talking about?

 

[betterlate]

Yes, god forbid anyone mention the name of this malignant post bacc unless they actually attended the program - we don't want any second hand / hearsay information on SDN, even when it turns out that there was validity to it.

Yes. God forbid that anyone acknowledge when they can't back up a statement with actual facts.

 

[flip26]

Yes. God forbid that anyone acknowledge when they can't back up a statement with actual facts.

When you learn the difference, and value of, facts vs opinion vs speculation, the stuff you read on this forum will actually be useful.

Nothing beats doing your own research. That is what I did, and my research was relevant at the time (2007).

If anything I wrote in this thread prompted someone to dig a little deeper, to do their own research, then that person is now better informed about what happened in the very recent past (at Goucher) and what they might want to ask about other programs knowing that it could be the case there, too.

 

[mtulli]

Hello, everyone. Long time lurker and have been in touch with a couple of people on here about various odds and ends of the application process!

Has anyone applied to these programs yet this autumn? I was just checking to establish some kind of sense of progress for us all. I know it is early!

 

[dia009]

I'm in the application process right now, and a big reason I want to attend Bryn Mawr/Goucher-- and one that has not been mentioned so far-- is that they bring in elite students. I'd much rather pay the extra $10k to study among fellow top-tier/Ivy graduates than be surrounded by community college undergrads.

i felt the same way until i started going to state U and met quiet a few individuals with extremely impressive credentials, definitely brand name university credentials (if you like brand name people) some are pretty awesome people as well.
The education I receive right now is definitely up to standard and rewarding. I'm extremely impressed with some students here, and it has allowed me to meet people outside of the "bubble" those from brand name universities often reside in.
On the financial side, I'm barely occurring any extra expenses right now other than the 5K a year in tuition. In addition, I was able to use the money not used for paying for bm or goucher to
1. go on a trip in china to see and learn gross anatomy at a lab
and work on my little "medical chinese" project.
2. carousing in hong kong
3. donate some to an AIDS organization I used to work for in China after college to fight some discrimiation cases in court (Chinese courts are kind of a joke, but you can always try, and sometimes you get somewhere)
4. hire a personal admissions consultant to deal with my application. ---- not that much at all comparing to how much you have to cough up for BM or goucher and get an apartment, etc etc.

Not having to relocate also allowed me to be a medical interpreter at this point in a city where the language i'm fluent in is in high demand, (which is not the case in baltimore). I love this gig and could very well turn into a well paid gig in glide year.

I was kind of sad when I decided that i bombed the phone interview with BM, but truthfully, they annoyed me a little as well on the phone, then I got over it.
For Goucher, I flew to NYC was going to take a train of baltimore, then called them to say I won't be coming, blew off the Goucher interview, and just hung out in New York city with family and friends.
When it came down to it, I didn't want to leave California just yet, and I decided that doing a stressful academic year in a totally unfamiliar location (cold, very white, liberal arts college) while under so much financial stress, and putting that kind of stree on my parents is really not the best way to go, and blowing off some awesome opportunities at my undergrad teaching hospital were not the smartest move either.

So, that's my experience with this whole postbac thing.
Everyone's situation is different.
So far, I have a 4.0 postbac GPA, and it's pretty fun. ^__^
Have a good day.

 

[kaleidoscopic]

Hi, thank you so much for sharing you story! It definitely gives a different perspective. I'm glad the state school option worked out well and that you have a very interesting job for your glide year.

I agree that everyone's situation is different. I am used to a cold liberal arts college where almost all students are extremely ambitious and overachieving, so it'd be weird for me to take 500-people classes at a state school for a year. Postbac advisors have told me that I will become "best friends" with my classmates, and I just think I will fit in much better at Goucher or Bryn Mawr. I would consider the state school option if I were from California or Virginia, but my state unfortunately ranks 45th~50th by various academic measures. I guess that's why I shunned the option from the beginning.

But then again, I may not even get into BM or Goucher and need a backup plan, so all of the information on this thread is very helpful.

 

[dia009]

it really depends on the school. Amazingly, the less brand name state school i go to right now has about 45-50 students per ochem class/gen chem.
vs. UCLA, which is about 350. teaching vs. research focused.
I have to say, giving up all the opportunities in Los ANgles is another consideration for me too, so it depends on what you are leaving behind.

Hi, thank you so much for sharing you story! It definitely gives a different perspective. I'm glad the state school option worked out well and that you have a very interesting job for your glide year.

I agree that everyone's situation is different. I am used to a cold liberal arts college where almost all students are extremely ambitious and overachieving, so it'd be weird for me to take 500-people classes at a state school for a year. Postbac advisors have told me that I will become "best friends" with my classmates, and I just think I will fit in much better at Goucher or Bryn Mawr. I would consider the state school option if I were from California or Virginia, but my state unfortunately ranks 45th~50th by various academic measures. I guess that's why I shunned the option from the beginning.

But then again, I may not even get into BM or Goucher and need a backup plan, so all of the information on this thread is very helpful.

 

[Jennet]

The real thing I'd like to ask anyone currently attending Goucher is this: how are you paying for the program? Are student loans enough to cover the cost of attendance? I'm not worried about being in debt (I mean medical school will eventually be hanging over my head) but do student loans really cover all expenses? Cheap apartment? Bills? Tuition? I've no other form of income and my family most definetly does not have the money to support me in a fancy pants private school. I say this with the utmost respect.

I suppose this is a hard concept for me to grasp since I've never been unemployed. I certainly can live like a student though

 

[EJS1979]

I'm a current Goucher postbac, and I have to say that I'm 100% happy with my choice. It might be more expensive than an informal or a lesser known program, but at least for me, it's completely worth it.

I chose Goucher over the other programs I visited for two major reasons:
1) small classes with only postbac students
2) the quality of teaching I saw when I visited. I sat in on orgo classes at two different schools, and I was so impressed with how excited the Goucher professor was. It was very interactive, and it became very clear that having only 30 students in a classroom was a huge advantage. (We have a different orgo teacher this year than last year's class had, but he is just as wonderful.)

Since starting the program, I still feel exactly the same way, but I've found so many other great benefits here. Betsy and Sharon are so happy to help everyone. They have strong relationships with various med schools and offer great advice about choosing volunteering opportunities that will best aid in the application process.

The greatest strength of the program, though, is the other postbac students. We all have such diverse backgrounds that we are constantly learning from each other. There is zero competition. I've never met a group of people so willing to help and support each other. We work hard, but we enjoy each other too -- from study groups to pick-up sports games to birthday celebrations. It's strange to be with the same 30 people all day, every day, but I think Betsy and Sharon do a great job of selecting applicants who will bring out the best in each other.

The only negative thing I can say is that Baltimore is not my idea of a great city, but for one year, it's definitely worth the sacrifice.