Bryn Mawr Sucks

[businessmd06]

Ok, so I had to vent. I just find it really annoying when post bac's like Bryn Mawr seem to want the following:

Ivy Grad who has spent the last year or 2 doing nothing with their life because they were an Art History major, and decides "oh crap" I better go to the post bac and get a real job.

Science Tech who has time to shadow and volunteer who makes 20k per year and has no real sacrifice to go into medicine.... sure we will take you.

And yet not even an interview for a Director of Sales of a Fortune 100 company, who earns close to 200k per year, had a 3.4 UG GPA from a top 50 public institution in a hard major (MSIS).

Let's see, I have worked hard since graudation in 2000, I have made something, and actual have a high standard of living, and yet, that is not enough of a sacrifice to show my desire to enter medicine?

I can only imagine I will now get a similar letter from Goucher if BM said no. Not even an interview, it makes me very cynical of the whole process. If I can run a sales force and create 100 million in revenue in a year, I think I can handle the pre req medical classes.

Ok Vent over... any encouraging remarks or not are appreciated

I guess Columbia will take my money!

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[braluk]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune, but theres obviously something lacking in your application. I don't want to come across as rude, but from the gist of your post, your job in a top company is a double edged sword. On one hand, I read your post and came away with it having the impression of arrogance, and on the other hand, risking all that to go into medicine is risky, and props to you for that. But like med school applications, there must be some component in your ECs thats lacking, be it some "altruistic" volunteer experience, or not. Good luck with everything, not being accepted into BM postbac isnt the end of the world. I like New York City better anyways (being from NJ 🙂 )

 

[Lshapley]

Woah, calm down there. Not getting into a postbacc is the end of the world. Like the previous poster said, most likely there was a piece lacking from your application, like medical volunteer experience or medical exposure in general. Also, I have heard from other people on these boards that the gpa they are looking for is around a 3.5 or higher. I know you had a hard major and that deflated your gpa (I have the same issue), but an applicant who had a 3.4 (regardless of institution) who is a sales executive with no medical experience would sound like a gamble to me if I were filling up my class. They really like to see dedication and determination to medicine and altruism. Talking about your sales experience especially in terms of how much money you have made makes you seem a little less than altruistic.

Take the rejection letter, post it on your refrigerator for inspiration and go do what you need to become a doctor. Volunteer at the hospital. Get your hands dirty. Quit the sales gig and work for a nonprofit. Whatever works for you. Just go and prove them wrong.

 

[businessmd06]

My statement of intent was somewhat altruistic, however, I think that someone who has been successful in the "real world" is more adept at handling the pressures of medical school. I run a sales force, and work with a variety of people every day. My experience in business is an asset, not a curse. I also have 40+ hours of shadowing, and have really taken my time to soul search to make sure this is the right decision. I understand they want altruism, and that is easy to ramble down, however, I thought they would want someone with a diverse business background, who is truly willing to sacrifice economic comfort for the ride ahead. Someone who has actually accomoplished something instead of fluffing the resume with volunteer work. I live in NYC, you cannot afford to live here and spend all your time at a non profit.

This is not the end of the world by any means, I just question who they are looking for. It seems to me that they want a recent graduate with time on there hands, instead of an accomplished professional who has been out in the world for 6 years and knows this is what he wants.

A side note - Most of the 3.5 and up GPA's come from IVY league schools, and we all know it is hard not to get an A- at most of them. I went to Penn State, were there is a bell curve, and you have to earn your grades.

 

[nanaschool2000]

I guess you really have a passion to become a doctor. I know it's hard to risk all those comforts and go for trying to become a doctor. But, I think you are taking the rejection from Bryn Mawr way too seriously and somewhat wrong. Don't think I'm rude. Being successful cannot be measured by how much money they make. Making +200K doesn't say that you have accomplished something more than those who spent many hours volunteering or working for hospitals/non profit organization. Of course, postbacc/med schools look for candidates from lots of different backgrounds. But there might be something that you lack of. To find that out, I think it is best to call Bryn Mawr and ask them why you have rejected. I know that they accept plenty of people from Non-Ivy League universities/colleges. They might have accepted many PSU students so far (my guess).

If I were you, I'll be very satisfied w/ going to Columbia. They also have a great success rate. Good luck in the future. GO BIG TEN!!!!!!! PAC 10 and SEC conferences are overrated!!!!

 

[blackadder]

I understand they want altruism, and that is easy to ramble down, however, I thought they would want someone with a diverse business background, who is truly willing to sacrifice economic comfort for the ride ahead. Someone who has actually accomoplished something instead of fluffing the resume with volunteer work.

I understand you're letting off some steam right now but it is NOT a good idea to belittle volunteer work. It is true that becoming a volunteer is usually easier than getting a job. However, just because you think anybody can volunteer doesn't mean it's not worth your time. Honestly, your post sounds as though you believe volunteering is beneath you (I'm guessing you don't really think this). People tend to volunteer because they feel giving of themselves to help others is a worthy use of their time--just as you probably feel that your job is a worthy use of your time. If you're not going to volunteer, fine--but do not insult those who do. It reeks of callousness and snobbery.

I'm sorry to hear about Bryn Mawr, but it sounds like you're more than motivated enough to make it to med school. Best of luck on the journey ahead.

 

[Trismegistus4]

I understand you're letting off some steam right now but it is NOT a good idea to belittle volunteer work. It is true that becoming a volunteer is usually easier than getting a job. However, just because you think anybody can volunteer doesn't mean it's not worth your time. Honestly, your post sounds as though you believe volunteering is beneath you (I'm guessing you don't really think this). People tend to volunteer because they feel giving of themselves to help others is a worthy use of their time

Except for premeds, who do it because they know it's one of the hoops one must jump through in order to get into med school. I know businessmd06's frustration well; I experienced the same feeling and vented about it on SDN when applying to postbaccs.

 

[businessmd06]

Let me first say that I do not look down upon volunteer work, and community service. My problem is I would think a post bac's primary purpose is to allow "successful" people who have grown to understand their priorities and dreams the opportunity to accomplish their goal of going to medical school. I am not saying that someone who has volunteered for 2 yrs straight out of college is not worthy, I just feel they put to much emphesis on this. In my mind what BM is looking for is a recent grad who is fresh out of college, has fresh LOR, has been volunteering after graduation b/c they have no real responsibilities, and who vomits altruism like it was candy. It is a shame that these programs, do not put value in being a success in a prior career. If I do not have enough volunteering to do well in pre medical studies (I have 40+ hrs of shadowing and built medical clinics in a 3rd world country 10 yrs ago 🙂 it is because I have worked 60 hrs a week for the last 5 years. I have excelled in my profession, I am used to stress, demanding deadlines, and long hours. This is a benefit to swithcing to medicine. The work requirement to be a full time student will be cake compared to closing million dollar deals on a deadline.

BM only had 3 students out of 78 over 30... the majority are 22-24... this is because it is truly for the student who had a major that = no $$ in the real world, and they realize they need to go back to school and "be something" I do not think BM is geared towards 28-30 yr old successful business people who wish to make a difference in medicine.

 

[braluk]

Good point. I think i might've gotten offended because my gf is an education&art history major lol. Nontrads in a postbac, at least ones Ive encountered, seem to be accepted into postbac/SMP programs only after theyve dedicated the last year or two to medicine/volunteer/research, etc. etc. In the eyes of BM, it might've been risky for them to accept a student, as succesful as you are, cold turkey. Fresh out of college students are different, given that they have recently been in an academic atmosphere with recent exposure to science. But I guess that is what a post-bac is for, to give a clinical and academic science background to those who have been away from it, but adcoms are always mysterious in their own way.

 

[Nasrudin]

I couldn't even afford to consider one one of those snotty little post bac programs, the cost is probibitive to most people. If what you say is true in terms of your economic leverage, you do not even need the approval of such programs to accomplish what you want to. You are able to do what I am not even capable of--reordering your life to go to school full-time to prove ability to handle full-time heavy science courseloads. Having the means to do this alone is such a leg up that for me to compete against you is like the bad news bears vs the New York Yankees.

Now, I hear you in the sense that we're both grown folks, and people who don't have grown folks reponsibilities and those who are funded by their parents have the time and the luxury of being "altruistic." That's just part of the game unfortunately. And in some sense its a shame that it is the way it is. But as far as the game goes as someone who has financial means you hold your share of trump cards so your complaints about the facts of how the game is played do not win my sympathy.

You obviously are a capable individual and its my guess that medical pre-reqs will not be a problem for you--as they rarely are for ambitious, hard working people.

Why do you feel a sense of condemnation, just because one little snotty liberalized, high dollar program does not recognize your capabilities? Why don't you just take your hard earned cash somewhere else and ace the courses there? I think these programs get more hype than their worth.

 

[DrMidlife]

businessmd06, I wish there was something in your posts that made me want to root for you, and/or some indication that you're passionate about a life of service and will do whatever it takes to get there. Maybe such a theme is present in your Bryn Mawr app essay. But to me it sounds like you're exceptionally proud of the career you're leaving, which is great, and you expect everybody to respect you for it, which isn't going to happen. Just about every premed is a prestige ***** to some extent, but that doesn't play well as a dominant theme. For 15 years I designed and engineered consumer and biz products that generated well over a billion dollars in revenue, which impresses the crap out of people who are into products. And I expect admissions committees, at best, to smile and nod politely at my non-contribution to humanity, count the minimized number of years I can practice as an MD, and worry about what my impact will be on a class full of 20 year olds with whom I need to get along.

Your high-paying sales/mgmt career is counted as an extracurricular in this world. It's fantastic experience and shows breadth and leadership. It is proof of non-trivial capabilities that will be absolutely relevant when you're a doctor. You can navigate administrativia that baffles the uninitiated. (Plus I assume you have a killer tailored suit and a charisma that will make your med school interviews cake.) But your accomplishments have very little to do with the next 10 years of your life, if you're pursuing medical school. The next 10 years are about jumping through hoops, doing what you're told, and doing it incredibly well without editorializing about its value. You are about to have absolutely no say for a very long time; has sales management prepared you for this? 35,000 of us per year ask for the opportunity to make a difference in medicine, and an awful lot of the applicants are incredibly impressive young punks who at age 5 sold lemonade to help fund clinics in Uganda.

In 2-3 years, if everything goes right, you'll be sitting in a biochemistry class covering molecular details that will never, ever apply to a single patient you'll ever see. The professor will be younger than you, inefficient, and somebody you wouldn't ever hire to do sales for you. You'll have to pass the class and do well on this part of the USMLE, even though everything about it rubs you raw.

In 4-6 years, if everything goes right, you'll be running urine samples to a lab 15 floors up, the elevator is broken, at 3 in the morning, you haven't slept for 2 days, your girlfriend or boyfriend is leaving you, your pager is going off every 5 minutes for more IVs you have to redo, and you are going to be grilled like cheese during rounds at 6 am and won't have a spare minute to prep. All your friends are skiing or sailing. And you have to get up and do it again tomorrow, and again, again and again for at least 4 years.

You may need to do all of this in Milwaukee or Fargo or Buffalo. I expect you need to want it bad enough that you'd move there and be grateful for the opportunity.

So yeah, I agree with others that you should pick up a volunteer gig. See if you can push stretchers, escort patients, and roll bandages for 4 hours a week, for a year or more. This isn't about getting into Bryn Mawr, it's about finding out if you can stand doing "scut" work after lucrative prestigious work. You might find out that you'd rather be an HMO CEO.

Also, I know private schools are important on the east coast, but out here on the other coast we can roll our own postbac at a public university and do just fine. Shows initiative and maturity. How about Harvard Extension, or Vermont or some such?

Honestly, I hope you make it. After all this madness is over I'd be pretty excited to practice in a group that has the breadth you bring.

 

[sfnix]

I am not saying that someone who has volunteered for 2 yrs straight out of college is not worthy, I just feel they put to much emphesis on this. In my mind what BM is looking for is a recent grad who is fresh out of college, has fresh LOR, has been volunteering after graduation b/c they have no real responsibilities, and who vomits altruism like it was candy. It is a shame that these programs, do not put value in being a success in a prior career.

Arguably though Bryn Mawr has had outstanding success only accepting the young just out of college types, as shown by 100% of their students matriculating over the past 8 or 9 years (can't remember the exact timeline). if you think about this, it's completely understandable that they would structure their program around youngens.

ps- waiting for my response from the mawr right now and i'm a youngy. carried a 3.7 a mid-level state school, not great but not crap. spent the past year interning, travelling and volunteering in NYC and Russia and i'm henging my hopes on what you said about fresh LORs and lots of volunteer work... pretty much my only hope.

 

[businessmd06]

businessmd06, I wish there was something in your posts that made me want to root for you, and/or some indication that you're passionate about a life of service and will do whatever it takes to get there.


Your post is very eloquent and I appreciate it. Please remember I started this thread on the eve of my rejection letter, and I am probably being a little harsh on BM and the people they accept. I also understand that my current career is not going to impress the admissions people as much as I would like. What is lost in all of this is my motivation to do this. Money, Prestige, are only great if you love what you do. At the end of the day the only value I feel I bring is to the bottom line. A point here, a point there (Merchant Banking) and that is it. I want a opportunity to utilize my work ethic to do more for humanity than make a dollar. I want to be around intelligent people who are hungry, and who have strong work ethics. I would like to use my business background to help MD's protect themselves from the HMO's you speak of. My wife is a PHD in Molecular Bio, I have 3 doc's in my extended family, and I have spent the last 2 yrs questioning myself and others to make sure I am ready for the commitment, and the "scut".

I have shadowed for 40 hours, and built a house for habitat, and I worked full time to provide for my family. I still believe a non trad with work experience, who has paid their dues in another career and succeeded is far more likely to succeed in medicine, than a young kid who has never done anything in the real world. This is why so many residents who went right from college loathe what they do, and tell others to stay away. If you talk to non trad's who did something else prior, most of them are happy with their decision, because they did it for the right reasons.

Thanks for the long thoughtful response.


As far as where I go from here - either Rutgers (save money), Columbia (spend money), or Goucher (probably will be declined since BM is similar)

 

[businessmd06]

businessmd06, I wish there was something in your posts that made me want to root for you, and/or some indication that you're passionate about a life of service and will do whatever it takes to get there.


Your post is very eloquent and I appreciate it. Please remember I started this thread on the eve of my rejection letter, and I am probably being a little harsh on BM and the people they accept. I also understand that my current career is not going to impress the admissions people as much as I would like. What is lost in all of this is my motivation to do this. Money, Prestige, are only great if you love what you do. At the end of the day the only value I feel I bring is to the bottom line. A point here, a point there (Merchant Banking) and that is it. I want a opportunity to utilize my work ethic to do more for humanity than make a dollar. I want to be around intelligent people who are hungry, and who have strong work ethics. I would like to use my business background to help MD's protect themselves from the HMO's you speak of. My wife is a PHD in Molecular Bio, I have 3 doc's in my extended family, and I have spent the last 2 yrs questioning myself and others to make sure I am ready for the commitment, and the "scut".

I have shadowed for 40 hours, and built a house for habitat, and I worked full time to provide for my family. I still believe a non trad with work experience, who has paid their dues in another career and succeeded is far more likely to succeed in medicine, than a young kid who has never done anything in the real world. This is why so many residents who went right from college loathe what they do, and tell others to stay away. If you talk to non trad's who did something else prior, most of them are happy with their decision, because they did it for the right reasons.

Thanks for the long thoughtful response.


As far as where I go from here - either Rutgers (save money), Columbia (spend money), or Goucher (probably will be declined since BM is similar)

 

[nanaschool2000]

businessmd06, I wish there was something in your posts that made me want to root for you, and/or some indication that you're passionate about a life of service and will do whatever it takes to get there.


Your post is very eloquent and I appreciate it. Please remember I started this thread on the eve of my rejection letter, and I am probably being a little harsh on BM and the people they accept. I also understand that my current career is not going to impress the admissions people as much as I would like. What is lost in all of this is my motivation to do this. Money, Prestige, are only great if you love what you do. At the end of the day the only value I feel I bring is to the bottom line. A point here, a point there (Merchant Banking) and that is it. I want a opportunity to utilize my work ethic to do more for humanity than make a dollar. I want to be around intelligent people who are hungry, and who have strong work ethics. I would like to use my business background to help MD's protect themselves from the HMO's you speak of. My wife is a PHD in Molecular Bio, I have 3 doc's in my extended family, and I have spent the last 2 yrs questioning myself and others to make sure I am ready for the commitment, and the "scut".

I have shadowed for 40 hours, and built a house for habitat, and I worked full time to provide for my family. I still believe a non trad with work experience, who has paid their dues in another career and succeeded is far more likely to succeed in medicine, than a young kid who has never done anything in the real world. This is why so many residents who went right from college loathe what they do, and tell others to stay away. If you talk to non trad's who did something else prior, most of them are happy with their decision, because they did it for the right reasons.

Thanks for the long thoughtful response.


As far as where I go from here - either Rutgers (save money), Columbia (spend money), or Goucher (probably will be declined since BM is similar)

I think Rutgers doesn't afford a financial aid. You might have to pay out of your pocket. From what you are making, you might be able to afford it. I dunno. If I were you, I would spend money and go to Columbia, Goucher is also a great choice. They have a 100% success rate so far (that's what I heard). Columbia has a great success rate too. If your goal is to get into med school, I believe Columbia is a better choice than Rutgers. Reputation & Success Rate vs. Money - - - -> I would choose Reputation and success rate.

 

[lawnboy313]

One has to adjust Columbia's success rate with its attrition rate. A large number of students drop out of the program. If one includes the number of students that started the program in the percentage of students that eventually matriculate into medical school, Columbia's success rate is much lower than published.

 

[businessmd06]

I would have to agree with Lawnboy as well. Since I was accepted to Columbia for this fall I did a lot of research early this year on the program. They have about a 40% attrition rate, and the classes are with the undergrad weed out professors. Columbia also requires you to do the program in 2 years, and from what I was told from previous students, although they have many linkages the likelyhood of utilizing them is very slim. I even know of two students who had the recommendation to link from the Columbia committee, and still did not get to link to the school (Suny). I am not suire if it is more competitive to link to a state school (lower tuition).

In regards to Rutgers - They have a direct link with UMDNJ (A good school on a state school tuition structure) They also have a much more affordable post bac than CU, and you can structure it to finish in 16 months instead of two years.

I spoke to ADCOMS from 9 different medical schools earlier this year, in the north east. Each one said that going to Hunter Vs. CU to go to Hunter. That they do not weigh the CU post bac high enough to justify the cost. If you cant link at a place like BM / Goucher - They said do well somewhere else and save money and you will still be as successful.


Just my two cents on my previous CU research.... if anyone has another take I am glad to hear it.

BM still stinks tho 🙂

 

[businessmd06]

I would have to agree with Lawnboy as well. Since I was accepted to Columbia for this fall I did a lot of research early this year on the program. They have about a 40% attrition rate, and the classes are with the undergrad weed out professors. Columbia also requires you to do the program in 2 years, and from what I was told from previous students, although they have many linkages the likelyhood of utilizing them is very slim. I even know of two students who had the recommendation to link from the Columbia committee, and still did not get to link to the school (Suny). I am not suire if it is more competitive to link to a state school (lower tuition).

In regards to Rutgers - They have a direct link with UMDNJ (A good school on a state school tuition structure) They also have a much more affordable post bac than CU, and you can structure it to finish in 16 months instead of two years.

I spoke to ADCOMS from 9 different medical schools earlier this year, in the north east. Each one said that going to Hunter Vs. CU to go to Hunter. That they do not weigh the CU post bac high enough to justify the cost. If you cant link at a place like BM / Goucher - They said do well somewhere else and save money and you will still be as successful.


Just my two cents on my previous CU research.... if anyone has another take I am glad to hear it.

BM still stinks tho 🙂

 

[0_cat_state_1]

Hi,

I am curious- is there anyone out there who has been rejected by BM, but accepted by Goucher, or at least invited to interview?

Have a good day!

 

[businessmd06]

I actually spoke to BM and they flat out told me they did not even review my app, they said it was pre screened out due to 3.4 GPA in undergrad. They also said they did not weigh heavily the success we have had in our current position, only saying that they wanted to see that we got dirty in the medical volunteer field, or that we worked with the underprivilidged. They pretty much want someone who is not a current career changer, but who has already changed careers to medicine, and for a year or so has done nothing but volunteer / do medically related work. They do not want current career changers, nor do they care if you were successful in your current fied. They want undergrads who graduated, live at home, have no responsibility, and are now volunteering 40 hrs per week. They should really state that their program is not for career changers, but an extension of undergrad for those who realized early after graduation that they wanted medicine.

On another note - Goucher seems to really review each application - Kudos to them. I think with the amount of time people put in to multiple essays, LOR, and the like it is the least they can do. I am still holding out hope for Goucher 🙂

 

[braluk]

I actually spoke to BM and they flat out told me they did not even review my app, they said it was pre screened out due to 3.4 GPA in undergrad. They also said they did not weigh heavily the success we have had in our current position, only saying that they wanted to see that we got dirty in the medical volunteer field, or that we worked with the underprivilidged. They pretty much want someone who is not a current career changer, but who has already changed careers to medicine, and for a year or so has done nothing but volunteer / do medically related work. They do not want current career changers, nor do they care if you were successful in your current fied. They want undergrads who graduated, live at home, have no responsibility, and are now volunteering 40 hrs per week. They should really state that their program is not for career changers, but an extension of undergrad for those who realized early after graduation that they wanted medicine.

On another note - Goucher seems to really review each application - Kudos to them. I think with the amount of time people put in to multiple essays, LOR, and the like it is the least they can do. I am still holding out hope for Goucher 🙂

Hey there, Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[edmadison]

I actually spoke to BM and they flat out told me they did not even review my app, they said it was pre screened out due to 3.4 GPA in undergrad. They also said they did not weigh heavily the success we have had in our current position, only saying that they wanted to see that we got dirty in the medical volunteer field, or that we worked with the underprivilidged. They pretty much want someone who is not a current career changer, but who has already changed careers to medicine, and for a year or so has done nothing but volunteer / do medically related work. They do not want current career changers, nor do they care if you were successful in your current fied. They want undergrads who graduated, live at home, have no responsibility, and are now volunteering 40 hrs per week. They should really state that their program is not for career changers, but an extension of undergrad for those who realized early after graduation that they wanted medicine.

On another note - Goucher seems to really review each application - Kudos to them. I think with the amount of time people put in to multiple essays, LOR, and the like it is the least they can do. I am still holding out hope for Goucher 🙂

BM is looking for people who are "locks" for admission. They want people with high undergraduate grades and great test scores. You didn't mention your SAT scores, so I don't know what your situation is regarding that. Since BM gets so many applicants, they can be choosier and don't need to take a risk on anyone. The mettle that makes you effective in the business world may not get you high MCAT scores and that's what they are used to.

I do wish you luck

Ed

 

[DrMidlife]

They pretty much want someone who is not a current career changer, but who has already changed careers to medicine, and for a year or so has done nothing but volunteer / do medically related work.

I'm really surprised to see this level of exclusivity at a postbac program. Is Bryn Mawr hard to get into in general? (On the west coast we just don't know these things. There's Stanford, and then there's noise, and then there's the state schools. I thought Bryn Mawr was a women's college.) If it's eating you up, I'd try to get a conversation with somebody who actually sets the policy, thus doesn't answer by phone.

Having a GPA checkbox, and an "are they serious?" checkbox seems rational. So a good academic record, and some activity such as volunteering to prove to yourself that you're not screwing around with the idea of med school, fine. But I think you said you'd shadowed and done other premeddy things, right? A 3.4 GPA bar with no review is myopic, but if it's their standard, whatever.

I hope you can stop comparing yourself to whoever is getting in at Bryn Mawr. What's the point? If you think there's something to learn from this rejection, learn it, otherwise, what do you need from them? It's going to be very painful to be in med school later on if you need to feel contempt for the people doing "better" than you. Although I must say I enjoy the NYC style of insult - it bars no holds.

 

[Febrifuge]

40 hours of shadowing is what stood out, for me. I had hoped you forgot a digit and meant "140 hours," but I see from a later post that's not the case. I'm no adcom member, but more shadowing can't be bad... plus it would give some doc a chance to really get to know you, and to write convincingly and in a detailed manner about your suitability for the profession.

Not to minimise your work or question your approach, but I held down a FT office job (just a lackey, unfortunately, not anything like a sales director) for 42 hours a week, and THEN shadowed, which became volunteering, which became a part-time job as an ER tech. I executed a plan that took more than a year, in order to prepare to apply for postbac. Nobody questioned my commitment or my seriousness, because nobody in their right mind could. I was accepted with a 3.02 GPA from a Big 10 school; the program director later told me that I was in because she thought I deserved a shot.

Have you considered Bennington? We had more than one person who was accepted at our program as well as Goucher or Bryn Mawr, and elected to head to Bennington instead. You need to be intensely self-directed and able to withstand more than a little pressure, but it's a small and intense postbac with good results. I am headed to PA school on my first app cycle since finishing... a good test score helps, but it's an attitude and an ability to demonstrate a grasp of what you're getting into that adcoms respond to.

Finally, I considered Bryn Mawr, but perusing their web page, catalog, and handbook gave me the impression that men can be accepted... yet no solid indication that it has ever really happened in anything like a 50/50 manner. Don't dwell on this rejection; much as it is with breakups (or failed setups), it probably has nothing to do with you, and lots to do with them and what they happen to be looking for.

 

[businessmd06]

I don't take it as minimizing my work, nor would I want you to think I would devalue your volunteer efforts. To answer an earlier post my Sat was 1280 back in 96. I also received B's in Calc I and II in college, and had a rigourous IT related major. In the end it came down to my lack of "getting my hands dirty" according to the director.

Personally I feel this is ridiculous, as many doctors have told me that picking up puke in the ER, or changing bed pans will not make you want to be a doc, nor should it. In the end BM wants someone like the above post -

no offense, but having a lacky job is much easier to leave, than having one with a lot of responsibility and pressure. I also feel like when you make 200k per year that is a slightly larger sacrifice to ones standard of living. Furthermore a job with long hours (I work 60 not 42) shows the ability to handle stress, fatigue, very similar to medical school.

In the end BM wants people like the above poster, and there is nothing wrong with that. The above post solidifies my position of who they were and are looking for. Someone who can devote their full time for a year to volunteer, as it seems they feel this is the only real way to measure ones desire to practice medicine. What is lost in the picture is those who have worked hard, been succesfull, have made a great living, and are willing to leave all of that to pursue medicine.

 

[Nasrudin]

I don't take it as minimizing my work, nor would I want you to think I would devalue your volunteer efforts. To answer an earlier post my Sat was 1280 back in 96. I also received B's in Calc I and II in college, and had a rigourous IT related major. In the end it came down to my lack of "getting my hands dirty" according to the director.

Personally I feel this is ridiculous, as many doctors have told me that picking up puke in the ER, or changing bed pans will not make you want to be a doc, nor should it. In the end BM wants someone like the above post -

no offense, but having a lacky job is much easier to leave, than having one with a lot of responsibility and pressure. I also feel like when you make 200k per year that is a slightly larger sacrifice to ones standard of living. Furthermore a job with long hours (I work 60 not 42) shows the ability to handle stress, fatigue, very similar to medical school.

In the end BM wants people like the above poster, and there is nothing wrong with that. The above post solidifies my position of who they were and are looking for. Someone who can devote their full time for a year to volunteer, as it seems they feel this is the only real way to measure ones desire to practice medicine. What is lost in the picture is those who have worked hard, been succesfull, have made a great living, and are willing to leave all of that to pursue medicine.

Dude everytime I want to root for you say something arrogant and disrespectful. Guy with multi-six-figure salary doesn't make into ritzy east coast post pac...Call the Waambulance already.

 

[businessmd06]

It is not about being arrogant, it is just a different viewpoint. From your response it seems you would like me to be penalized for my success. Also it seems Admissions people at BM and Goucher do not value people from the business world who have had success. If you would have read the entire post I said I do not de-value what someone else may do, I just feel that BM is not ideal for successful career people who have been out of school more than 5 years, and who have too many responsibilites to quit a year ahead and volunteer full time. The previous poster was able to volunteer for a year, some of us do not have the ability to do this. My wife is getting her PHD, and I have provided a home for us while she is in school. NYC 200k = about 70k anywhere else.

BTW- thanks for trying to root for me, but it's not necessary for me to know what I can accomplish.

There is a fine line between arrogance and success and confidence

 

[Nasrudin]

It is not about being arrogant, it is just a different viewpoint. From your response it seems you would like me to be penalized for my success. Also it seems Admissions people at BM and Goucher do not value people from the business world who have had success. If you would have read the entire post I said I do not de-value what someone else may do, I just feel that BM is not ideal for successful career people who have been out of school more than 5 years, and who have too many responsibilites to quit a year ahead and volunteer full time. The previous poster was able to volunteer for a year, some of us do not have the ability to do this. My wife is getting her PHD, and I have provided a home for us while she is in school. NYC 200k = about 70k anywhere else.

BTW- thanks for trying to root for me, but it's not necessary for me to know what I can accomplish.

There is a fine line between arrogance and success and confidence

Well alrighty then. good luck in medical school.

 

[Febrifuge]

In the end BM wants people like the above poster, and there is nothing wrong with that. The above post solidifies my position of who they were and are looking for. Someone who can devote their full time for a year to volunteer, as it seems they feel this is the only real way to measure ones desire to practice medicine. What is lost in the picture is those who have worked hard, been succesfull, have made a great living, and are willing to leave all of that to pursue medicine.

My friend, that "above post" was mine, and I think you may have misread some of it. I continued working that 42-hour-a-week job, in addition to my volunteering, which later became a part-time job, on the side. By the end of it, I was working 60 to 72 hours a week.

And it's a little bit of a double-edged sword; your current job is important enough and stressful enough that you feel you've earned some consideration for doing it well, and then for leaving it. I don't disagree, and you're right that it's easier to leave than my cube-monkey situation. On the other hand -- and not to say this is fair, or that I agree with it -- it is a job you're looking to leave behind, and adcoms are likely to discount it partly because of that.

I had to speak up, just because my classmates and my PD would find it hilarious for anyone to hold me out as "what the postbacs are looking for." My grades were too lousy, I'm too old, and my medical experience is too lengthy and too legitimate for me to fit the mold of pre-med postbac achiever. BM would have laughed me out of the room.

Finally, you said "In the end it came down to my lack of "getting my hands dirty" according to the director." So get your hands dirty. I'm not saying carrying bedpans will make you want to be in medicine. It won't. But it will get you into a situation where 1) you can learn what you want to learn about how things work, since there's plenty of time to pursue your own agenda while you're completing brainless tasks, and 2) it'll put you in proximity to people who can help you. Make your own luck, dude. Create your own opportunities.

 

[Pemulis]

Sorry, but I have to pipe in here, because this is how misinformation gets spread. People are already discussing the OP's situation as if his assertion that Bryn Mawr won't take applicants who don't have a ton of volunteer experience is a fact. It's not. Bryn Mawr does like career switchers, and you don't have to be Mother Theresa to get in.

As I posted in this thread's sister thread "Goucher Sucks Too":

I know you're upset right now, so don't take this personally, but I do want to jump in here, because this is the internet and for some reason people seem to take things on this board to heart.

I was 7 years out of college, about to be married, and in the middle of another career when I was accepted to Goucher and Bryn Mawr. At the time I had only about two months of experience volunteering in an ER, plus a few one-time shadowing experiences. A number of my classmates at Goucher had similar histories, as do other people I know who attended the Bryn Mawr program. I know for a fact that both of these programs do like career changers, and you don't have to have been a 10 year volunteer to get in to them.

There are a lot of reasons why you may not have been invited to interview at these programs: maybe your GPA was lower than the other applicants they're seeing; maybe you had a bad letter of rec; maybe your essay didn't convince them. I don't know what the reasons are, and neither do you.

Sorry it didn't work out for you. Good luck.

 

[Lshapley]

BusinesstoMed, just let go of which postbacc you get into. It doesn't matter. Bryn Mawr has a gpa cutoff of 3.5 and you were below that so you don't get in. They also do not accept people who had completed any of the pre-reqs before (which is why I never applied there). I don't know if this is you, but it might be because of your undergrad degree. Let it go.

A top level postbacc isn't the first step, it is supposed to be a logical next step. In your case, it is not a logical next step from sales no matter how successful you were. 40 hours of shadowing is not much and you do not get your hands dirty there. A top level postbacc wants to see you go through something discouraging within medicine but rise up to the challenge. Who is to say that the first time you do badly on an exam, have to clean up after a homeless person puking in the er, or get put in your place by a nurses assistant who will be writing your review that you won't decide that medicine isn't right for you? Will you just go right back to a lucrative career in sales? A top level school won't take that risk.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with going to Hunter. Get good grades there and get medical experience so that you will be accepted to a med school.

lee

 

[businessmd06]

BusinesstoMed, just let go of which postbacc you get into. It doesn't matter. Bryn Mawr has a gpa cutoff of 3.5 and you were below that so you don't get in. They also do not accept people who had completed any of the pre-reqs before (which is why I never applied there). I don't know if this is you, but it might be because of your undergrad degree. Let it go.

First let me say that I started this post cause I was annoyed at how things at BM were handled. I am not way hung up about not going there. I just thought people should know another side to the admissions process there. If anything my posts will hopefully help people better prepare their apps knowing more of what they may need. It is no big deal that I am not going to BM - I am going to save a lot of money and not have to move away from my wife and go to Rutgers. Most adcoms have told me that it does not matter where you do your postbac studies, and the only real reason to go to a BM is for the linkage. I would have went had I gotten in for that fact alone.

Second if it is true they have a 3.5 UG GPA cut off then they should stop advertising that 3.0 is the min GPA of accepted students. Also it would seem to me that this would aid my idea that BM is more for recent graduates than career changers. Many people in other fields may have less than a 3.5 gpa, and should be considered based on their whole resume of work. To eliminate an app because they have a 3.4 gpa is crazy

Also let me clearly say that a 3.4 at a top public university with a bell curve is much harder to attain than a 3.6 at a Ivy (Major GPA fluff) My wife goes to Columbia for her PHD and her and her collegues see it all the time there.

A top level postbacc isn't the first step, it is supposed to be a logical next step. In your case, it is not a logical next step from sales no matter how successful you were. 40 hours of shadowing is not much and you do not get your hands dirty there. A top level postbacc wants to see you go through something discouraging within medicine but rise up to the challenge. Who is to say that the first time you do badly on an exam, have to clean up after a homeless person puking in the er, or get put in your place by a nurses assistant who will be writing your review that you won't decide that medicine isn't right for you? Will you just go right back to a lucrative career in sales? A top level school won't take that risk.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with going to Hunter. Get good grades there and get medical experience so that you will be accepted to a med school.

lee

I also never said there was anything wrong with going to Hunter. In fact in many ways it is the smart move. You can schedule your classes independantly, save money, and still get in to med school. Again the reason for BM is simply the one year program and the high linkage ability.

In regards to puking in the ER - I live in a third world country for 1 month and built a medical clinic in 100 degree heat with no running water. I shadowed in a high volume inpatient clinic.

The reason I was upset with BM is that they claim to look at each application, however, the director told me they don't look at most. I think in a time when there will be a shortage of doctors in the next 10-15 yrs, that they would look a bit more closely at the diversity they could have.


I think we have killed this topic, it was simply a vent, and a way to share another opinion about BM admissions tactics. I am glad it generated this much attention 🙂

 

[poly800rock]

what i don't understand is that on bryn mawr's website, they also claim that the specifically accept people who are changing careers. It also say iirc, haven't looked at the site in a year, that people their program wasn't meant for students with science degrees or who have taken more than a few science classes, i'm looking at the site now and it no longer says that, or I can't seem to find it. Just curious, are you looking at this program because of the reputation and linkages? Since you're a family man, i'm assuming your going for a link program, which more than a few schools do have, the lesser post bacc program I did last year has one with temple and drexel. But in all honesty, I feel you could do the same taking classes at a local university, not community college, kicking ass in your classes, destroying the mcats, all by yourself. You might have to put a bit more legwork into applying, but at the end of the day the material you learn is EXACTLY the same out of the text books. I also agree with your grade inflation point about Ivy's. I left working at an IVY and it was EXACTLY that way.