Bryn Mawr vs. UVA

[secretbeard]

Hello All. After working applications since September and fretting over wait-lists and rejections, I've been accepted to UVA and Bryn Mawr post-baccs. I just found out from both of these in the past week.

So, Bryn Mawr has an excellent Post-Bacc reputation, with a remarkable and appealing med school acceptance rate. UVA, meanwhile, seems much less well-known for their post-bacc, but the school overall has a stronger reputation.

Post-Bacc alone, I'm leaning toward Bryn Mawr. Considering other courses I'd like to take either during or after, UVA may have more to offer. With all of the MCAT and AAMC recommendations changing for 2015, the standard post-bacc curriculum doesn't hold as much weight without other opportunities at the school.

What do you guys think? Anyone know much about UVA's program? It seems well-formed, but there's just such a dearth of reviews. I've searched, but no one is saying much about it.

Side notes: This list of post-baccs from Princeton was very helpful in compiling my second list http://www.princeton.edu/hpa/post-bac-programs/
If anyone wants to know more about my candidacy or application process, hit me up.

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[aspiringmd12]

@secretbeard - I will be attending UVA's program this summer, and I also interviewed at Bryn Mawr (was waitlisted and decided to withdraw my app). What I liked a lot about UVA is the individual attention/advising you get with the smaller class size (~30-35 as opposed to ~75-80 at Bryn Mawr) as well as the fact that they have a "Medical Director" of the program who works with individual students to arrange various medical shadowing opportunities, which is a cool opportunity that didn't seem to be offered at Bryn Mawr. I felt really at ease talking to the admissions committee at UVA (Dr. Bailey, Dr. Powers, and Dr. Burnett are awesome), whereas I felt a little less comfortable overall at Bryn Mawr (though Jodi seemed great). All of the students I talked to at both programs had nothing but good things to say so I think it really comes down to where you would feel most comfortable spending the year.

At both programs, all classes are postbacs only (with the exception of Bio lecture at UVA), so I think you would get a similar experience at both programs academically. With Bryn Mawr, I was a little worried that with the bigger class size I would get lost in the mix and maybe not come out with the strongest letters of recommendation, but that may be just personal preference.

If you are aiming for linkages, Bryn Mawr wins hands down since it offers so many more linkage arrangements at a diverse group of schools. I was never planning on linking (I would prefer to take a gap year due to personal reasons), but if you are seriously considering it I would definitely choose Bryn Mawr. If choosing purely based on location, I think Charlottesville definitely beats Bryn Mawr, but again that's just personal preference.

When it comes down to it, the most important thing is to go where you feel most comfortable and where you feel you would do best. I think they are both great programs that will support you and help you get into medical school so I don't think you can really go wrong here. If you end up at UVA I look forward to meeting you this summer. Good luck with your decision!

 

[meander]

I interviewed at both this year. And I agree with all that aspiringmd had to say above.

I would add that the relative merits of the programs depend on your goals. If you want to do research, UVA might be the better choice -- Bryn Mawr told us flat out during my info session that virtually no one gets to do research while they're there because they don't have strong ties to labs and "most of our students would be useless to a lab." Because UVA actually has a med school and a teaching hospital, the opportunities are far greater in that regard. As you mentioned already, UVA also has more options for taking rigorous classes beyond the pre-reqs (e.g. biochem).

On the other hand, Bryn Mawr is hands down the more prestigious program, with a better "name" in the med school world, and more documented success getting students into med school. As you might know, Jodi at BM is the head of the association of heads of post-bac programs (or something like that) -- she definitely knows what she's doing.

You didn't mention anything about your intentions to link or not, your academic background, or your ties (if any) to location. I would certainly take those into account.

(Full disclosure: I'm headed to JHU)

 

[secretbeard]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I get the impression both of you interviewed in person, so I appreciate the opinions of the committee members. My interviews have all been via Skype, with only one representative. I had the impression that BM was more connected to their students (close-knit community vs large university) so it's good to read that UVA offers as much or more individual attention.

Agreed on the prestige of BM and that they really, "know what they're doing," in regard to getting students into Med School, but I can't shake that concern that their usual efforts may not mean as much in 2015. I suppose we're all waiting to see on that one.

As for the other points you guys mentioned: I've no real tie to either location. I'm actually from Virginia, but if anything I'd prefer BM's location because I've a bit of a travel bug and love experiencing life in new places. Linking has great appeal, but ultimately I'm planning on taking a glide year for the school's to which I want to apply (GI Bill and in-state tuition coverage in California).

 

[meander]

Were you not able to attend the group info session that BM does because you interviewed over Skype? I only bring it up because a major topic of the info session when I was there was that not only are they tailoring the curriculum for the new MCAT (including biochem topics in Orgo), but that Jodi is on the committee that was involved in designing the new MCAT (or something -- it's been a while). I wouldn't let that sway you... maybe other factors, but not that one.

 

[ksyhe]

I don't know much about the UVA program, but I attended the BM program 2 years ago.

Meander is right -- BM has been working on tailoring biochem/orgo for awhile now (my class was one of the first guinea pigs for this effort). Also, you will get amazing support and attention at BM -- don't let the larger class size fool you. Plus, having a larger class also has a number of benefits! There's a greater diversity of students, and it's a little less of an insular bubble. Also, most of the professors only teach the postbac class (no other sections), so they'll probably know your name before the first exam. Plus, Jodi will be the one writing your committee letter, and her letters are legendary.

One more point -- even if you don't want to link, if you have any interest in applying to any of BM's 20 consort schools as a regular applicant, the Bryn Mawr name definitely carries weight at these schools, and Jodi has networked her heart out with these admissions directors. I know a number of BM alumni who have gotten in with stats much lower than what would generally be considered competitive at these schools, including myself!

Good luck!

 

[secretbeard]

Meander, ksyhe, thanks for that info. I have decided on UVA, after much debate (I'll see you there, aspiringmd12.) No, I wasn't able to attend any group info session, unfortunately. As far as my curriculum concerns, it's not so much about the MCAT, but being able to follow the Post-Bacc with a few other courses. I don't, at this point, plan to apply to any of BM's consort schools, so I'm not missing out there.

In case anyone could benefit from my final thought process, UVA was going to be a few thousand cheaper, offers more opportunity for additional coursework, and starts three weeks later. That last point isn't the biggest, but it happens to make things a lot easier in my current circumstances. Thanks again for the advice, everyone, and good luck to you all!

 

[darkjedi]

The Bryn Mawr program is hands over fists superior to the UVA one. In the postbac world, ugrad repuation has zero bearing on the quality of the program. Columbia is arguably a better university than either, but does not have a good postbac. Jodi has been the program director at BM for decades at this point and has very close and well established relations to top tier medical schools. 13 students from the program got into my medical school this year through the linkage process alone. Even if you aren't linking/consorting the connections, letters, and opportunities opened up to you at BM will also be significantly superior to that of UVA.

 

[ksyhe]

The OP already made his decision, but for the record: after (or before) you do your postbac, you can always take additional coursework *anywhere.* I don't personally think this is a great reason to choose one school over the other, the postbac should focus on the premed prereqs (and the advising/connections of that program, as darkjedi mentioned).

First of all, if you ace the prereq courses, and you *won't need* any other coursework to succeed in med school (that is, if the curriculum is solid, like it is at BM), including post-2015.

And secondly, if you do feel like you'd want to take more courses for whatever reason, there's nothing saying that you have to take them at the same institution as your postbac (you could go to BM and take additional coursework as a nondegree student at UVA afterward. Or Harvard. Or UCLA. Or Northwestern, etc., etc.) I know that several of my classmates are taking additional coursework at schools close to where they are now living, some at reduced tuition, since their glide year jobs are at the same institution; or at the school they hope to eventually matriculate at (so they can get a rec letter from faculty at that school). Just something to think about.

 

[secretbeard]

More good points, for sure. Like ksyhe said, for better or worse, I've already decided now. Bryn Mawr is off the table for me, so I'm concentrating on making the best of UVA. As for my other courses, I already have Physics I and II done. Some of these additional courses may be taken in their place. While it may be feasible, I'd rather not be working two institutions simultaneously.

 

[camma]

Obviously this is a quite old thread, but for anyone in the future considering this decision, I will say that UVA will get you anywhere you want to be. The advisors know what they're doing and the support is there for you.

 

[polymathorhopelesslylost]

Hey guys, this is my first post!

Secretbeard, if you're out there I would really like to hear what your impression of UVA has been after going there?

I'm in a similar situation. I have had the good fortune of being accepted to UVA and Bryn Mawr's postbaccs for next year. Both offer some sweet advantages (in addition to the obvious ones): I went to Swarthmore undergrad, so at Byrn Mawr I could be close to my friends in Philly and my sister (who's at Swat currently). I have fond memories of the area, and know more or less what I'd be getting. At Virginia, I could be an hour drive away from my girlfriend, who will likely be starting a PhD at VCU in Richmond. I don't know much about Charlottesville, but I hear it's a beautiful town. Because of our intense schedules, however, my girlfriend and I think distance may not matter so much (Bryn Mawr is a 4-hour drive from Richmond) as we would mostly see each other on weekends and breaks, anyway.

I've been pleasantly surprised by UVA. They seem almost as strong as Bryn Mawr and a bit more intimate of a program. It also could help being in Virginia during my postbacc if I wind up applying to med schools there.

Here's the main issue: I'm currently in London getting my master's in public health. I found out that my final exams will overlap with the first week at UVA, and they seem pretty intent on every student starting the same day. I could push off exams (and graduating) for a year, but I worry about having to re-prepare for public health while studying for my MCATs (yikes). And with Brexit, securing another visa just to take a test sounds like a real hassle. Bryn Mawr, on the other hand, would let me begin with Gen Chem 2, as I've already taken the first semester at Swat.

Do any alums have any input on this admittedly convoluted question? Can students get away on weekends? Any experiences balancing relationship and career goals? Thoughts on the advantages of doing a postbacc in a state one might apply to med school at? Thank you.

 

[sedgeshaveedges]

Hey guys, this is my first post!

Secretbeard, if you're out there I would really like to hear what your impression of UVA has been after going there?

I'm in a similar situation. I have had the good fortune of being accepted to UVA and Bryn Mawr's postbaccs for next year. Both offer some sweet advantages (in addition to the obvious ones): I went to Swarthmore undergrad, so at Byrn Mawr I could be close to my friends in Philly and my sister (who's at Swat currently). I have fond memories of the area, and know more or less what I'd be getting. At Virginia, I could be an hour drive away from my girlfriend, who will likely be starting a PhD at VCU in Richmond. I don't know much about Charlottesville, but I hear it's a beautiful town. Because of our intense schedules, however, my girlfriend and I think distance may not matter so much (Bryn Mawr is a 4-hour drive from Richmond) as we would mostly see each other on weekends and breaks, anyway.

I've been pleasantly surprised by UVA. They seem almost as strong as Bryn Mawr and a bit more intimate of a program. It also could help being in Virginia during my postbacc if I wind up applying to med schools there.

Here's the main issue: I'm currently in London getting my master's in public health. I found out that my final exams will overlap with the first week at UVA, and they seem pretty intent on every student starting the same day. I could push off exams (and graduating) for a year, but I worry about having to re-prepare for public health while studying for my MCATs (yikes). And with Brexit, securing another visa just to take a test sounds like a real hassle. Bryn Mawr, on the other hand, would let me begin with Gen Chem 2, as I've already taken the first semester at Swat.

Do any alums have any input on this admittedly convoluted question? Can students get away on weekends? Any experiences balancing relationship and career goals? Thoughts on the advantages of doing a postbacc in a state one might apply to med school at? Thank you.

I'm not the OP, but I was also admitted to both Bryn Mawr and UVA and chose UVA. Overall, I'm happy with that decision and has a successful application cycle. I think either program will prepare you well if you're willing to put in the work. I'm sure both programs have pluses and minuses, and I'm happy to discuss my experience if you have any specific questions.

Postbacs are by nature intense and I suspect you will find traveling 4 hours on any regular basis pretty unfeasible. Many of my classmates that started the program in long distance relationships found themselves single by the end of the Fall semester. It's certainly possible to do, and definitely possible to maintain some school life balance if you make it a priority, but I wouldn't expect to have a lot of time to travel.

I think UVA will work with you on the summer gen chem issue -- I had a classmate in a similar situation who had to miss class to complete final exams from undergrad in the middle of the first chem block. I think it was stressful and took some maneuvering, but possible. It's worth seeing if they can help you figure out a compromise.

 

[polymathorhopelesslylost]

I'm not the OP, but I was also admitted to both Bryn Mawr and UVA and chose UVA. Overall, I'm happy with that decision and has a successful application cycle. I think either program will prepare you well if you're willing to put in the work. I'm sure both programs have pluses and minuses, and I'm happy to discuss my experience if you have any specific questions.

Postbacs are by nature intense and I suspect you will find traveling 4 hours on any regular basis pretty unfeasible. Many of my classmates that started the program in long distance relationships found themselves single by the end of the Fall semester. It's certainly possible to do, and definitely possible to maintain some school life balance if you make it a priority, but I wouldn't expect to have a lot of time to travel.

I think UVA will work with you on the summer gen chem issue -- I had a classmate in a similar situation who had to miss class to complete final exams from undergrad in the middle of the first chem block. I think it was stressful and took some maneuvering, but possible. It's worth seeing if they can help you figure out a compromise.

Thanks, sedgeshaveedges. I'm glad to hear the program can be flexible in cases like this. I've just sent an email to UVA, so I hope to hear back from them soon.

If you have time, I'd definitely like to hear some of your thoughts on the UVA experience. The students I've talked to in the program seem really smart but also down to earth. I suppose I was wondering about UVA's cohort's cohesion, as it's a bigger school but a smaller program.

 

[sedgeshaveedges]

Thanks, sedgeshaveedges. I'm glad to hear the program can be flexible in cases like this. I've just sent an email to UVA, so I hope to hear back from them soon.

If you have time, I'd definitely like to hear some of your thoughts on the UVA experience. The students I've talked to in the program seem really smart but also down to earth. I suppose I was wondering about UVA's cohort's cohesion, as it's a bigger school but a smaller program.

Sure -- as I've said, I was overall happy with the structure and culture of the program. Size was one of the factors that drew me to choose UVA over Bryn Mawr. Part of what you're getting out of a structured program like this is the individualized attention from professors and program staff that will help you to be successful, and the closer relationships that will lead to strong LORs. I thought the UVA program's smaller size would allow me to distinguish myself more than in a larger program, and as far as I know this led to positive and personal LORs. At least during my year you were provided one science letter from the organic chem professor Dr. Burnett (who is a real treasure and one of the program's biggest strengths, in my opinion) and a committee letter from the program director and medical director. The fact that all of these writers know you well over the course of your time makes those letters stand out.

Most of your classes are only with the other post-bacs, with the exception of a couple labs (physics and bio), summer chem, and bio lecture, so it has a small school feel despite being part of a large university. This both gives you plenty of opportunity for individual attention and academic help, and the chance to gel as a class. My class felt very cohesive and collaborative; I know all programs advertise themselves as being collaborative but I was pleasantly surprised that this really was the case. No ego, obnoxious competition, or backstabbing -- everyone shared resources and was happy to offer help if they were stronger in a particular subject. I won't claim that I was best friends with every member of my class, but I have nothing bad to say about any of them and there are a handful that I still talk to regularly.

My one caveat is that the program isn't going to hold your hand too much. Personally, I think this is for the best, but if you're expecting someone to breathe down your neck the entire time to make sure you're hitting milestones and deadlines, this program isn't for you. That said, all of those resources are there if you want them -- mock interviews, building school lists, editing personal statements -- they just won't be forced upon you.

Let me know if you have other questions!

 

[thefamousboat]

When do students in UVA's program typically take the MCAT? Is MCAT prep included in tuition? And, how was your experience taking gen chem or bio with undergrads? Thanks in advance!