BS/MD v T5 undergrad

[Jtf0830]

I am a high school senior and was accepted to Stanford for undergrad but also accepted to GW for their 7 year BA/MD.

I am really torn between the two choices. I am as certain as I can be at this time that I want to be a doctor. Whereas one gives me a pretty much guaranteed med school acceptance, the other is one of the best schools in the world, but applying to med school even from Stanford still seems to be an arduous uncertain process.
Would you take bird in hand or go for the risk?

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[charactercomic2]

I would take the BA/MD. There is no certainty that you will get in just from going to a prestigious school as Stanford. Another factor is cost. Stanford is not an inexpensive school, and I would guess that the cost at GW would be slightly less but correct me if I am wrong lol. If you are certain you want to be a doctor, I would take the BA / MD and run with it. The amount of labor and stress that can be eliminated with a program like that is immense. In the end it is ultimately up to you to make the decision though

 

[Shunsui]

I used to say BA/MD all day but if you're a strong enough student to get accepted into these types of programs and Stanford, you're probably an all-star and will be able to build a stellar app from day 1.

I'd go with Stanford and wouldn't limit your options by committing to GW

@EdgeTrimmer

 

[deleted1066189]

what are the requirements if you take the BS/MD? Is it truely guaranteed? Some programs only give a slight edge (MSU's BS/DO for example)

tbh if you parents are paying your undergrad loans (if), I would say pick Stanford. Otherwise, cheaper school should win out, anyway

Edit: one other thing, your undergrad years are going to be arguably some of the most fun and formative years in your life, no need to rush them. My mom had a fair amount of regret finishing her undergrad in 3 years, she had less time to breathe

 

[Banco]

You really need to be sure. If there is any inclination that you might explore other fields, then it would be foolish to give up Stanford.

If you really are sure and the BS/MD is truly guaranteed (with minimal conditions), it would really be so much easier than the rat race that is pre-med. Worst case scenario is that you drop out of the BS/MD, and finish undergrad at GW which is a good school.

You seem to be academically hard working if you have these options already - I’m sure if you work hard at Stanford you will be successful getting into medical school the traditional way too - but you’ll have to go through the motions and you have to accept that it won’t be guaranteed.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I used to say BA/MD all day but if you're a strong enough student to get accepted into these types of programs and Stanford, you're probably an all-star and will be able to build a stellar app from day 1.

I'd go with Stanford and wouldn't limit your options by committing to GW

@EdgeTrimmer

I would say exactly same thing. You already proved that you are capable of getting into Stanford unless you think you got in thru sheer luck. Aim high, soar like an Eagle!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

what are the requirements if you take the BS/MD? Is it truely guaranteed? Some programs only give a slight edge (MSU's BS/DO for example)

tbh if you parents are paying your undergrad loans (if), I would say pick Stanford. Otherwise, cheaper school should win out, anyway

Edit: one other thing, your undergrad years are going to be arguably some of the most fun and formative years in your life, no need to rush them. My mom had a fair amount of regret finishing her undergrad in 3 years, she had less time to breathe

GW requirements: maintaining a minimum 3.60 overall GPA; no grades of C or below in any science courses; providing an MCAT practice exam score from an online MCAT review; and participation in medically-related and service experiences. So easily doable.

Also GW cost is comparable to Stanford and I don't think they offer much in terms of merit.

As a parent I am against 6 or 7 year program and would want kids to enjoy the UG and as anyone who seen my posts know how it worked out for my kid (I don't want to rehash and sound gloating )

 

[Talldoctor96]

Go to stanford no question

 

[bodynotfondofcoffee]

first of all, congratulations on your acceptances!!

i just wanted to provide another perspective:

my younger sibling was also torn between a very prestigious school and an in-state guaranteed BS/MD program. it was probably one of the most difficult/heartbreaking decision up till then since they wanted to attend the school really badly but also because they knew they wanted to become a physician in the future. after discussing family and friends/mentors, they ended up choosing the BS/MD program. of course, they had leftover regrets even as they attended the BS/MD program; however, after seeing/hearing about how much i (older sibling) and their older friends struggled through this bloody process (and of course their own premed experience), they really appreciated the final decision that they made few years back.

hope this helps!

edit: also, one thing to note is that their BS/MD program lets their BS/MD students to "apply out" aka it is not a binding program.

 

[Talldoctor96]

Stanford is a 1 in a million opportunity yoh will be set for life no matter what you choose

 

[Orims]

Stanford will offer you amazing premed opportunities related to research and volunteering (free clinic that is mostly ran by undergrads for example). As long as you maintain a good GPA and score well on the MCAT, you should be able to get quite a few interviews coming out of Stanford.

 

[KnightDoc]

I don't think this is a tough decision at all. BS/MD programs cater to risk averse applicants and their parents. They are even more difficult to get into than getting into med school through the regular process, so the irony is that the people who get the opportunity don't need the guarantee, and those who need it don't have the chance.

Finally, people who coast through UG because of the guarantee tend to be the ones who struggle in med school, and BS/MD folks have by far the highest med school drop out rates, both due to academic and personal reasons. So, the bottom line is that getting into Stanford is an amazing accomplishment and represents an amazing opportunity that it doesn't make sense to give up in order to lock yourself into a UG that you would never otherwise consider, but for the med school guarantee.

The simple truth is that if you still want to go to med school 3 or 4 years from now, and you cannot get in from Stanford, you are probably not doing yourself any favors going under a BS/MD guarantee. And, if the hard work necessary to get in coming from Stanford is a big turn-off for you, you're really going to hate med school, residency, and being a doctor.

 

[Talldoctor96]

I don't think this is a tough decision at all. BS/MD programs cater to risk averse applicants and their parents. They are even more difficult to get into than getting into med school through the regular process, so the irony is that the people who get the opportunity don't need the guarantee, and those who need it don't have the chance.

Finally, people who coast through UG because of the guarantee tend to be the ones who struggle in med school, and BS/MD folks have by far the highest med school drop out rates, both due to academic and personal reasons. So, the bottom line is that getting into Stanford is an amazing accomplishment and represents an amazing opportunity that it doesn't make sense to give up in order to lock yourself into a UG that you would never otherwise consider, but for the med school guarantee.

The simple truth is that if you still want to go to med school 3 or 4 years from now, and you cannot get in from Stanford, you are probably not doing yourself any favors going under a BS/MD guarantee. And, if the hard work necessary to get in coming from Stanford is a big turn-off for you, you're really going to hate med school, residency, and being a doctor.

Also stanford is notoriously super chill. Once you’re in they treat you well. Might I also add the comparison of paolo alto and foggy bottom is insane. As someone who grew up and dc and is dating someone in the bay.... go to Stanford. GW is ... meh anyway.

 

[Nucleophile1]

I would absolutely choose Stanford over the GW BA/MD program without a second thought.

If you can get into Stanford, you can also get into medical school assuming you continue to work hard and apply yourself. Stanford will open up so many doors for you and if you work hard in undergrad, you will have a much better chance at going to a top tier medical school. Finally, if you change your mind, the connections you make at Stanford will make pursuing any other career that much easier.

 

[deleted555445]

go to Stanford, get those connections for later in life

 

[efle]

stanford

 

[emergentmd]

If you are sure you want to be a doctor go to GW. This is not even a debate in my mind. Shorter, cheaper. I know of many stellar HS students who struggle immensely in college who struggle in Med school who struggle in residency who struggle as an attending.. They are all different worlds

There are many Stanford grads who can't get into med school. Just did a google and it says 75% (seems high) of Stanford Premed students get into med school and most don't go to T20 schools. I am quite sure the 75% are those who actually applied and there are still a large chunk that just don't have the grades/Mcat score.

If you are truly a high achiever unicorn, you will do well in GW and do whatever specialty you want.

If you are not sure about med school, go to Stanford.

 

[efle]

If you are sure you want to be a doctor go to GW. This is not even a debate in my mind. Shorter, cheaper. I know of many stellar HS students who struggle immensely in college who struggle in Med school who struggle in residency who struggle as an attending.. They are all different worlds

There are many Stanford grads who can't get into med school. Just did a google and it says 75% (seems high) of Stanford Premed students get into med school and most don't go to T20 schools.

If you are truly a high achiever unicorn, you will do well in GW and do whatever specialty you want.

If you are not sure about med school, go to Stanford.

I don't believe any 17 year old can be certain enough about medicine to turn down HYPS, there's just too much opportunity cost if they realize they want any other field

 

[YCAGA]

Yeah, Stanford is great but almost everyone in this thread is assuming that OP will just walk into Stanford and get a sGPA that is good enough for an MD school of equal caliber to GW or better. What if OP goes to Stanford and gets a 3.4 or 3.2 sGPA? Just because you are smart enough to get into Stanford doesn’t mean you are going to get the GPA you need to get into an MD school. Research, connections, and “wow” factor aren’t going to help OP if they get a mediocre GPA, which is not uncommon at top schools like Stanford. Tons of kids that go to Stanford, UChicago, Duke, Princeton end up at DO schools because of mediocre GPA’s. OP will need to maintain what, like a 3.0 sGPA if they go to GW? No C’s and a 3.6 TOTAL GPA at GW is much more of a sure thing than a 3.5+ sGPA at Stanford, which is what you need to go to an MD school. Also no MCAT at the BA/MD program which is kinda suspicious, but does make it more of a sure thing for OP.

If you are 100% sure you want to go to medical school, do the BA/MD and have a much less stressful college experience.

 

[YCAGA]

I don't believe any 17 year old can be certain enough about medicine to turn down HYPS, there's just too much opportunity cost if they realize they want any other field

It works both ways. If they go to Stanford, get a 3.2 sGPA (very possible, Stanford is harder than GW) and then still want to go to medical school, there is a huge opportunity cost of turning down the BA/MD.

 

[efle]

It works both ways. If they go to Stanford, get a 3.2 sGPA (very possible, Stanford is harder than GW) and then still want to go to medical school, there is a huge opportunity cost of turning down the BA/MD.

Well, stanford saying 75% of their premeds go to med school is reassuring. Much higher than 25% chance that a teenager saying they want to go into medicine changes their mind

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Yeah, Stanford is great but almost everyone in this thread is assuming that OP will just walk into Stanford and get a sGPA that is good enough for an MD school of equal caliber to GW or better. What if OP goes to Stanford and gets a 3.4 or 3.2 sGPA? Just because you are smart enough to get into Stanford doesn’t mean you are going to get the GPA you need to get into an MD school. Research, connections, and “wow” factor aren’t going to help OP if they get a mediocre GPA, which is not uncommon at top schools like Stanford. Tons of kids that go to Stanford, UChicago, Duke, Princeton end up at DO schools because of mediocre GPA’s. OP will need to maintain what, like a 3.0 sGPA if they go to GW? No C’s and a 3.6 TOTAL GPA at GW is much more of a sure thing than a 3.5+ sGPA at Stanford, which is what you need to go to an MD school. Also no MCAT at the BA/MD program which is kinda suspicious, but does make it more of a sure thing for OP.

If you are 100% sure you want to go to medical school, do the BA/MD and have a much less stressful college experience.

Stanford is a grade inflation school.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

It works both ways. If they go to Stanford, get a 3.2 sGPA (very possible, Stanford is harder than GW) and then still want to go to medical school, there is a huge opportunity cost of turning down the BA/MD.

Worst case scenario you do GPA repair postbacc and apply. One or two gap years is not going to kill anyone.

 

[YCAGA]

Well, stanford saying 75% of their premeds go to med school is reassuring. Much higher than 25% chance that a teenager saying they want to go into medicine changes their mind

Does that include DO and/or Carib schools?

Also 75% isn’t even that good for a cohort of people who presumably got a 34+ on the ACT and should almost universally crush the MCAT. Even if 75% was impressive, I would bet money that the dropout rate at the GW is less than 25% for someone of OP’s academic prowess.

 

[YCAGA]

Worst case scenario you do GPA repair postbacc and apply. One or two gap years is not going kill anyone.

At which point you were better off going to GW.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

At which point you were better off going to GW.

When you think Stanford admission is a fluke.

 

[YCAGA]

When you think Stanford admission is a fluke.

Not sure what you mean.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Not sure what you mean.

Point is don’t go for BSMD for fear of failing at schools like Stanford and Harvard. Pretty much all BSMD are private schools with not much price break. So GW may be costing same as Stanford and only reason choosing is bird in hand.

 

[YCAGA]

Point is don’t go for BSMD for fear of failing at schools like Stanford and Harvard. Pretty much all BSMD are private schools with not much price break. So GW may be costing same as Stanford and only reason choosing is bird in hand.

Well I wouldn’t say fear of failing, but fear of being below average and not getting into an MD school. Bird in hand in medical school admissions in 2024 is the bet I would take. It only gets more competitive every year.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Well I wouldn’t say fear of failing, but fear of being below average and not getting into an MD school. Bird in hand in medical school admissions in 2024 is the bet I would take. It only gets more competitive every year.

True, but comes down to risk tolerance and ones personal ambitions. My kid and couple of others kids I know took that risk and succeeded and I speak from that experience. Others may have different outcomes and advocate for bird in hand. as they say no size fits all

 

[YCAGA]

True, but comes down to risk tolerance and ones personal ambitions. My kid and couple of others kids I know took that risk and succeeded and I speak from that experience. Others may have different outcomes and advocate for bird in hand. as they say no size fits all

That’s fair. I think someone could have regrets either way. I definitely didn’t know I wanted to do medicine at 17 or 18 and tbh I think very few people can make a rational decision about pursuing medicine at that age. But we are basically the only country in the world where we decide after high school so who knows (Canada is just US-lite so I don’t count them 😈)

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

That’s fair. I think someone could have regrets either way. I definitely didn’t know I wanted to do medicine at 17 or 18 and tbh I think very few people can make a rational decision about pursuing medicine at that age. But we are basically the only country in the world where we decide after high school so who knows (Canada is just US-lite so I don’t count them 😈)

I agree most kids don't know and even those who know can change their mind. My kid decided at 16 after shadowing few physicians he knows and not changed since then. He did go thru BSMD process and decided not go in that path.

 

[DNAJB6]

Most of the USNWR top 10-20 schools have significant grade inflation that would only help not hurt your GPA for medical school and would open a lot of doors in other fields too. MIT, Johns Hopkins, University of Chicago, WashU, and Caltech are the ones known for grade deflation and ones where the calculus could go the other way. Stanford isn't really known for grade deflation. I'd go to Stanford.

 

[CorgiLoaf]

Assuming you 100% are dead set on medicine, I would probably go with GW. I see it this way:

Pros of BA/MD:

• 7 yr program, which means you can make an "additional" year of physician salary
• Less stringent requirements for entry into the MD program. Min 3.6 GPA, no formal MCAT, and no need for 100s of volunteering hours = very relaxed college experience
• Following up on previous point, everyone at Stanford is smart as hell so you'll need to work extra hard to get a good GPA.
• GW is still a solid mid-tier with good opportunities and match list

Pros of Stanford:

• If you decide not to do medicine, having a Stanford degree can open up a LOT of doors for you
• Gives you a slight edge in med school applications. Also, maybe Stanford Med has a preference for their undergrads?

Basically in my mind, GW is the way to go if you 100% want to become a physician.
By going to Stanford, you are gambling whether you can get into a T20 school after 3-4 years of grueling hardwork.
I went to an Ivy undergrad and I've known people who matriculated to state schools/DO while others went to NYU/UPenn. It's not guaranteed.

...On the other hand, if you decide to switch careers 2 semesters in, you'll be shooting yourself in the foot by going to GW. Maybe you can talk to a few people in other fields that you are interested in.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Assuming you 100% are dead set on medicine, I would probably go with GW. I see it this way:

Pros of BA/MD:

• 7 yr program, which means you can make an "additional" year of physician salary
• Less stringent requirements for entry into the MD program. Min 3.6 GPA, no formal MCAT, and no need for 100s of volunteering hours = very relaxed college experience
• Following up on previous point, everyone at Stanford is smart as hell so you'll need to work extra hard to get a good GPA.
• GW is still a solid mid-tier with good opportunities and match list

Pros of Stanford:

• If you decide not to do medicine, having a Stanford degree can open up a LOT of doors for you
• Gives you a slight edge in med school applications. Also, maybe Stanford Med has a preference for their undergrads?

Basically in my mind, GW is the way to go if you 100% want to become a physician.
By going to Stanford, you are gambling whether you can get into a T20 school after 3-4 years of grueling hardwork.
I went to an Ivy undergrad and I've known people who matriculated to state schools/DO while others went to NYU/UPenn. It's not guaranteed.

...On the other hand, if you decide to switch careers 2 semesters in, you'll be shooting yourself in the foot by going to GW. Maybe you can talk to a few people in other fields that you are interested in.

Couple of 7 year BSMD candidates I know ended up taking gap year to beef up research to apply for competitive specialties so don't bet on 1 yr physician salary savings.

 

[CorgiLoaf]

Couple of 7 year BSMD candidates I know ended up taking gap year to beef up research to apply for competitive specialties so don't bet on 1 yr physician salary savings.

Those gap years will also apply to everyone else vying for the same competitive specialty.
3 yr undergrad is always faster than 4, and most undergrads don't publish anyways. OP will begin medical school on the same playing field as everyone else.

 

[Jtf0830]

Thanks everyone- a lot of good information here.

So one additional piece of info- would you change or advocate for one over the other if I will be able to attend both for pretty much no money out of pocket? I am covered financially by my tribe and a GI Bill and have earned some high amount merit scholarships, enough that my portion of tuition for ug and most of med school are already covered.

 

[KnightDoc]

Thanks everyone- a lot of good information here.

So one additional piece of info- would you change or advocate for one over the other if I will be able to attend both for pretty much no money out of pocket? I am covered financially by my tribe and a GI Bill and have earned some high amount merit scholarships, enough that my portion of tuition for ug and most of med school are already covered.

We've already been assuming the money was the same in both cases, so full pay or full ride doesn't change the calculus.

 

[efle]

Thanks everyone- a lot of good information here.

So one additional piece of info- would you change or advocate for one over the other if I will be able to attend both for pretty much no money out of pocket? I am covered financially by my tribe and a GI Bill and have earned some high amount merit scholarships, enough that my portion of tuition for ug and most of med school are already covered.

How rigorous was your high school experience? Were you easily handling full AP course loads, won national merit, scored 99th percentile ACT/SAT? If so, I'd definitely take free Stanford. If high school was under resourced and standardized exams would be below the typical matriculating range, that would make the bird in hand more attractive.

 

[mvsrocks]

If you can get into Stanford, you probably have the perseverance and academic ability to get into great medical schools. I vote Stanford.

 

[YCAGA]

If you can get into Stanford, you probably have the perseverance and academic ability to get into great medical schools. I vote Stanford.

That isn’t how Stanford or other top 10 schools work. It’s clear a lot of people replying in this thread haven’t attended a top 10 school. Everyone at these schools has extreme academic ability, except maybe the athletes of big money sports. The average GPA at Stanford is like a 3.6 and I would be shocked if the average wasn’t lower for science classes. It is very unlikely to get into a too medical school with a sGPA < 3.5 which is presumably not at all an uncommon GPA at Stanford. Look at the MSAR for top 20 medical schools and their 10th and 25th percentile sGPA if you disagree with me. Even kids from top 10 undergrads are getting into top medical schools with 3.8+ GPAs.

This isn’t to say that OP can’t excel at Stanford, but the people acting like it is a given because of OP’s performance in high school is incredibly naive. Just not how things shake out at these top schools.

 

[RespectTheChemistry]

If you're certain you want to be a doctor, I would go for the BS/MD. As they say, a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.

 

[efle]

That isn’t how Stanford or other top 10 schools work. It’s clear a lot of people replying in this thread haven’t attended a top 10 school. Everyone at these schools has extreme academic ability, except maybe the athletes of big money sports. The average GPA at Stanford is like a 3.6 and I would be shocked if the average wasn’t lower for science classes. It is very unlikely to get into a too medical school with a sGPA < 3.5 which is presumably not at all an uncommon GPA at Stanford. Look at the MSAR for top 20 medical schools and their 10th and 25th percentile sGPA if you disagree with me. Even kids from top 10 undergrads are getting into top medical schools with 3.8+ GPAs.

This isn’t to say that OP can’t excel at Stanford, but the people acting like it is a given because of OP’s performance in high school is incredibly naive. Just not how things shake out at these top schools.

It completely depends on the school. Brown has a similar entrance exam range to Berkeley but I'd worry far more about a sibling choosing the latter. To my knowledge Stanford is on the chill side.

 

[YCAGA]

It completely depends on the school. Brown has a similar entrance exam range to Berkeley but I'd worry far more about a sibling choosing the latter. To my knowledge Stanford is on the chill side.

I mean it doesn’t matter if it is on the chill side if half their students are getting sGPA’s <3.6😬

 

[efle]

I mean it doesn’t matter if it is on the chill side if half their students are getting sGPA’s <3.6😬

Google is telling me they had a 3.6 avg 15 years ago. Probably even higher now. Unless someone has reason to think they'd come in underprepared compared to peers, it's not too dangerous, you really just need to be about average. Sounds like GW is nonbinding so OP would still have to deal with the MCAT and the headache of applying. This really boils down to turning down Stanford for GW purely out of fear that youd be in the bottom 25% of premeds. Only OP can assess their record and whether that might be them.

 

[YCAGA]

Google is telling me they had a 3.6 avg 15 years ago. Probably even higher now. Unless someone has reason to think they'd come in underprepared compared to peers, it's not too dangerous, you really just need to be about average. Sounds like GW is nonbinding so OP would still have to deal with the MCAT and the headache of applying. This really boils down to turning down Stanford for GW purely out of fear that youd be in the bottom 25% of premeds. Only OP can assess their record and whether that might be them.

It’s not about being in the bottom 25% of premeds. It’s about being below average at Stanford. Premeds have a horrible concept of what being below average means…see Caribbean schools and their 50% match rate.

 

[CorgiLoaf]

That isn’t how Stanford or other top 10 schools work. It’s clear a lot of people replying in this thread haven’t attended a top 10 school. Everyone at these schools has extreme academic ability, except maybe the athletes of big money sports. The average GPA at Stanford is like a 3.6 and I would be shocked if the average wasn’t lower for science classes. It is very unlikely to get into a too medical school with a sGPA < 3.5 which is presumably not at all an uncommon GPA at Stanford. Look at the MSAR for top 20 medical schools and their 10th and 25th percentile sGPA if you disagree with me. Even kids from top 10 undergrads are getting into top medical schools with 3.8+ GPAs.

This isn’t to say that OP can’t excel at Stanford, but the people acting like it is a given because of OP’s performance in high school is incredibly naive. Just not how things shake out at these top schools.

Yep. I worked insanely hard in high school but when I started attending the Ivy school, everyone was incredibly smart and I got burned out/partied too much/got depressed. The average grades of the premed classes were ~70% B- and ~30% B.

In my first month, a pre-med advisor gave us a talk on how in past years, only around 25% of premeds "survive" to apply to medical school. The vast majority do poorly in one or more prereq classes and then decide to pursue a different career. Again, this is an Ivy. I would bet that Stanford has a similar pre-med weedout rate.

OP seems to be URM (Native American), which will definitely help. But the MCAT is a beast of a test and they would probably still need a 515+, plus tons of time spent on ECs, to get into a T20 school.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

How rigorous was your high school experience? Were you easily handling full AP course loads, won national merit, scored 99th percentile ACT/SAT? If so, I'd definitely take free Stanford. If high school was under resourced and standardized exams would be below the typical matriculating range, that would make the bird in hand more attractive.

I also believe in your high school rigor and how much work it took you to get test scores determine your UG success unless you enjoyed your sudden freedom too much. As per Ivy admissions, given their holistic process not everyone who got in is cutout to excel academically. Those who go to easier high schools tends to have more time to do service projects and use those to get into Ivies. I know I will get flack for saying this.

 

[YCAGA]

Yep. I worked insanely hard in high school but when I started attending the Ivy school, everyone was incredibly smart and I got burned out/partied too much/got depressed. The average grades of the premed classes were ~70% B- and ~30% B.

In my first month, a pre-med advisor gave us a talk on how in past years, only around 25% of premeds "survive" to apply to medical school. The vast majority do poorly in one or more prereq classes and then decide to pursue a different career. Again, this is an Ivy. I would bet that Stanford has a similar pre-med weedout rate.

OP seems to be URM (Native American), which will definitely help. But the MCAT is a beast of a test and they would probably still need a 515+, plus tons of time spent on ECs, to get into a T20 school.

I have to thread carefully but if OP is Native American, statistically they are less likely to be the average or above average Stanford accepted student. They personally might be, but they will need to be very honest with themselves based on their SAT/ACT/AP scores and the true rigor of their high school (I assume they got a 3.95+ in high school regardless of URM status). Not trying to turn this into an affirmative action thread and I will delete this post if this thread starts to fly off the rails.

 

[mvsrocks]

The average GPA at Stanford is like a 3.6 and I would be shocked if the average wasn’t lower for science classes. It is very unlikely to get into a too medical school with a sGPA < 3.5 which is presumably not at all an uncommon GPA at Stanford. Look at the MSAR for top 20 medical schools and their 10th and 25th percentile sGPA if you disagree with me. Even kids from top 10 undergrads are getting into top medical schools with 3.8+ GPAs.

This isn’t to say that OP can’t excel at Stanford, but the people acting like it is a given because of OP’s performance in high school is incredibly naive. Just not how things shake out at these top schools.

Thanks for the reply

If I'm understanding correctly, you are arguing that it will be hard to get into a top med school because of Stanford's average GPA. Stanford has one of the highest, if not the highest, average undergrad GPA in the nation. But of course, he'll still have to work his ass off wherever he goes. Plus, the average Stanford student will probably have a higher uGPA at a "less competitive" institution. It becomes GPA weighed against undergrad name, so it's hard to base med school acceptance on GPA alone.

Even if he doesn't get into a top med school, I'm confident he will get into other schools and have more choices in terms of financial aid and location. I also mentioned his perseverance because on average, it takes a lot of great ECs to get into Stanford undergrad. Stanford will provide OP with so many great opportunities that are hard to find elsewhere.