Burrell COM (NM) receives pre-accreditation from COCA

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ERK123 said:
Even if you plead guilty, you are still guilty. I will say that associating yourself with New Mexico State University but not really being officially part of the university is a far step from honesty in my opinion.
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do you feel the same way about the VCOM's? Their third campus seems to be marketing itself as being "affiliated" with Auburn, but isn't actually part of the university (ditto their VT campus).
 
user3 said:
do you feel the same way about the VCOM's? Their third campus seems to be marketing itself as being "affiliated" with Auburn, but are not a part of the university (ditto to their VT campus).
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Don't know anything about VCOM, however, from a quick google search I do not think their actions are the same as this new school. Auburn is a city in Alabama where the college is located. In order for VCOM to be equivalent to Burrell that would need to call the school VCOM at Auburn University.
 
ERK123 said:
Don't know anything about VCOM, however, from a quick google search I do not think their actions are the same as this new school. Auburn is a city in Alabama where the college is located. In order for VCOM to be equivalent to Burrell that would need to call the school VCOM at Auburn University.
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I would be surprised if BCOM actually got to include "at NMSU" in its official name.
 
honestly you can open as many schools as you want because there will be a DEMAND and NEED for doctors but AOA or ACGME should automatically require each new school to START 50-100 positions per year for at least 4-5 years so we are ADDING residency spots and not just more DO's...I like how this school is in a deserving underserved area and they plan to add residency spots but I wonder how many are actually established
 
for-profit med school? o well. at least the corruption will be blatant and upfront. unlike "non-profit" institutes.
 
http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...ditation/Pages/coca-meeting-notification.aspx

Provisional accreditation site visit reports:

  • Alabama College of Osteopathic Medicine (Dothan, Alabama)

  • Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine (Las Cruces, New Mexico)
Substantive change request:

  • New York Institute of Technology College of Osteopathic Medicine (Old Westbury, New York) - additional location in Jonesboro, Arkansas

  • Nova Southeastern University College of Osteopathic Medicine (Fort Lauderdale, Florida) – class size increase


 
AlteredScale said:
http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/accreditation/predoctoral accreditation/Pages/coca-meeting-notification.aspx

Provisional accreditation site visit reports:

  • Alabama College of Osteopathic Medicine (Dothan, Alabama)

  • Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine (Las Cruces, New Mexico)
Substantive change request:

  • New York Institute of Technology College of Osteopathic Medicine (Old Westbury, New York) - additional location in Jonesboro, Arkansas

  • Nova Southeastern University College of Osteopathic Medicine (Fort Lauderdale, Florida) – class size increase

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plus:

Pre-accreditation site visit report:

  • Arkansas College of Osteopathic Medicine (Fort Smith, Arkansas)

 
user3 said:
plus:

Pre-accreditation site visit report:

  • Arkansas College of Osteopathic Medicine (Fort Smith, Arkansas)
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Yeah I only highlighted the ones I thought were just insane to me. They need to increase transparency with regards to the substantive change requests. For example, I want to see the actually letter of request by NYIT to open up a medical school IN ARKANSAS. I would love to seed their rationale behind it.

Also what's the rationale behind opening up a satellite campus when there is already a Pre-acc. site visit for an "in-state" campus there in the first place?

Need to see more denials and rejections and less acceptances coming from these COCA update reports.
 
AlteredScale said:
Yeah I only highlighted the ones I thought were just insane to me. They need to increase transparency with regards to the substantive change requests. For example, I want to see the actually letter of request by NYIT to open up a medical school IN ARKANSAS. I would love to seed their rationale behind it.
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Rationale: Given COCA's loose standards for accreditation, they view this as a good deci$ion for their bottom line
 
meliora27 said:
Rationale: Given COCA's loose standards for accreditation, they view this as a good deci$ion for their bottom line
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The lack of transparency here is not okay. I think there is a "third-party" submission form I can submit to the COCA in regards to what they provide on their website.
 
user3 said:
http://www.thecitywire.com/node/35815#.VQda78afNUQ

it looks as if COCA initially denied NYIT's campus request, but NYIT is now reattempting COCA approval.

Both NYIT and ArkansasCOM state their intention to open their new campuses for Fall 2016, along with Burrell COM.
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There is absolutely no reason for NYIT to open a medical school in Arkansas. Even the ArkCOM admin and leaders opposed it, and COCA still proceeds. What a travesty.
 
Hi All! Sorry for the super newbie question, but is there a place to find out more of these issues (ie the problem with these new schools opening, for-profits, new campuses, COCA)? I can absolutely see the fundamental problems but want more info. Thanks!
 
AlteredScale said:
The lack of transparency here is not okay. I think there is a "third-party" submission form I can submit to the COCA in regards to what they provide on their website.
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To be fair, a lack of transparency is a problem for a LOT of organizations. Not an excuse, but it's really not surprising. I believe the LCME had similar issues in the past.

AlteredScale said:
There is absolutely no reason for NYIT to open a medical school in Arkansas. Even the ArkCOM admin and leaders opposed it, and COCA still proceeds. What a travesty.
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COCA can't legally prohibit places from applying. They can deny them accreditation, but can't deny them the ability to apply in the first place.

Really standards/requirements just need to be pumped up a bit to make it sufficiently difficult so that only well planned schools get pre-accreditation.
 
hallowmann said:
To be fair, a lack of transparency is a problem for a LOT of organizations. Not an excuse, but it's really not surprising. I believe the LCME had similar issues in the past.



COCA can't legally prohibit places from applying. They can deny them accreditation, but can't deny them the ability to apply in the first place.

Really standards/requirements just need to be pumped up a bit to make it sufficiently difficult so that only well planned schools get pre-accreditation.
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Ahh I didn't know that about coca. Good point though.

Probably one of the reasons the Jersey College of Nursing has been an applicant since 2011 huh?

Yeah I agree! I just feel like COCA may be scared to push standards any further because they know schools they have approved already would not meet them.
 
NurWollen said:
I find the article's description of osteopathic medicine more alarming than the idea itself of Chapman opening a med school. It makes us sound like a bunch of homeopaths.
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Yeah I was just going to say that. "We don't want a ranked medical school we just want to build a 'second class' osteopathic one".

That's pretty lame.
 
AlteredScale said:
There is absolutely no reason for NYIT to open a medical school in Arkansas. Even the ArkCOM admin and leaders opposed it, and COCA still proceeds. What a travesty.
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When it comes down to it coca is not interested in protecting the image and practice rights of osteopathic physicians. Nor in any form of quality control for students.

Where LCME will massacre an entire school to protect students and increase their chances of success. Coca is willing to accept schools like WCU who very literally struggled to even float.
 
serenade said:
When it comes down to it coca is not interested in protecting the image and practice rights of osteopathic physicians. Nor in any form of quality control for students.

Where LCME will massacre an entire school to protect students and increase their chances of success. Coca is willing to accept schools like WCU who very literally struggled to even float.
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See that's what confuses me. COCA IS comprised of physicians and scientists but what baffles me is how and where they comprise their rationale...especially with physicians on the committee.
 
AlteredScale said:
See that's what confuses me. COCA IS comprised of physicians and scientists but what baffles me is how and where they comprise their rationale...especially with physicians on the committee.
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Physicians and scientists who can be bribed and paid off.
 
serenade said:
When it comes down to it coca is not interested in protecting the image and practice rights of osteopathic physicians. Nor in any form of quality control for students.

Where LCME will massacre an entire school to protect students and increase their chances of success. Coca is willing to accept schools like WCU who very literally struggled to even float.
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What's going on with WCU? Did I miss some drama on the pre-osteo forums?
 
NurWollen said:
What's going on with WCU? Did I miss some drama on the pre-osteo forums?
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I think what serenade is addressing was WCU's abysmal pass rates on board exams prior and how COCA did absolutely nothing to address the issue. LCME would have immediately brought down the probation hammer if anything like that happened.
 
AlteredScale said:
I think what serenade is addressing was WCU's abysmal pass rates on board exams prior and how COCA did absolutely nothing to address the issue. LCME would have immediately brought down the probation hammer if anything like that happened.
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What was their first class' board pass rate?
 
NurWollen said:
What was their first class' board pass rate?
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70% comlex 1. 76% comlex 2. Proctors on clerkships claimed they were some of the least prepared students. And their match was very very poor.
 
NurWollen said:
Yikes. That's scary. I'm sure they'll do better in the future but wow, yeah, that is totally unacceptable.
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in addition, a number of horrible student reviews. (although some students seem content).

but really, some of the student reviews were among the worst I had ever seen for a school.
 
user3 said:
in addition, a number of horrible student reviews. (although some students seem content).

but really, some of the student reviews were among the worst I had ever seen for a school.
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Where can I read these reviews? I need something interesting, I've had my face buried in First Aid all day.
 
 
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LECOM is opening a branch campus in Utah. According to the Utah Osteopathic Medical Association it will either be in Provo or Orem.
 
What steps should I take to become a future COCA member? By then, the damage will be done and we will have 100 osteopathic schools with unmatch rates comparable to FMGs. Still, hopefully I can whip them into shape and change some things. I promise to be an incorruptible leader free from the influence of bribes and personal gain.
 
metoo said:
LECOM is opening a branch campus in Utah. According to the Utah Osteopathic Medical Association it will either be in Provo or Orem.
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O Grady said:
And to the best of my knowledge Southern Utah COM, RVU's branch campus in Cedar City, is still a go.
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I haven't heard anything new on these two schools in quite a while.
 
metoo said:
LECOM is opening a branch campus in Utah. According to the Utah Osteopathic Medical Association it will either be in Provo or Orem.
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As far as I know, we've been told that LECOM has either put those plans on hold or dropped the plan completely (most likely because RVU is also planning a DO school in the state).

NurWollen said:
I haven't heard anything new on these two schools in quite a while.
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As far as I've heard, RVU's campus is going forward and they are actually getting into the accreditation process, but LECOM's is stalled or been dropped.
 
hallowmann said:
As far as I know, we've been told that LECOM has either put those plans on hold or dropped the plan completely (most likely because RVU is also planning a DO school in the state).



As far as I've heard, RVU's campus is going forward and they are actually getting into the accreditation process, but LECOM's is stalled or been dropped.
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LECOM really ought to look north to Idaho or Wyoming.
 
To follow up on my young colleague's observation, the IUSM Centers in Evansville, South Bend, Muncie, Lafayette etc are also affiliated with some well known UG schools (USI, Notre Dame, Ball State and Perdue), but also have no direct connection with them!


user3 said:
do you feel the same way about the VCOM's? Their third campus seems to be marketing itself as being "affiliated" with Auburn, but isn't actually part of the university (ditto their VT campus).
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OPRAH-CAR-GIF-2.gif


DO Schools for everyone!
 
The only schools I can realistically going from applicant to pre-accred status in the next few years are Arkansas and Missouri Southern State University. It would be FINE if they had 1) small starting class size 2) strong hospital affiliates and 3) opportunities for research.

COCA's definition of all of these factors is what's troubling.
 
AlteredScale said:
The only schools I can realistically going from applicant to pre-accred status in the next few years are Arkansas and Missouri Southern State University. It would be FINE if they had 1) small starting class size 2) strong hospital affiliates and 3) opportunities for research.

COCA's definition of all of these factors is what's troubling.
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Then it would be an MD school.

The issue is that there is no incentive other than cutting corners for a university or anyone to open a DO school versus a MD school.

In the end this is why coca is going to have to go sooner than later. It only opens the door for the creation of substandard coms that will only broaden the gap between MD and DO standards of undergraduate medical education.
 
serenade said:
Then it would be an MD school.

The issue is that there is no incentive other than cutting corners for a university or anyone to open a DO school versus a MD school.

In the end this is why coca is going to have to go sooner than later. It only opens the door for the creation of substandard coms that will only broaden the gap between MD and DO standards of undergraduate medical education.
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COCA isn't going to go down without a fight that's for sure. I still stand by the fact of having a student/physician petition calling for the revaluation of specific standards in the COCA's Accrediting Guidelines.
 
AlteredScale said:
COCA isn't going to go down without a fight that's for sure. I still stand by the fact of having a student/physician petition calling for the revaluation of specific standards in the COCA's Accrediting Guidelines.
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Again, there's no solution there either. Coca and the AOA understand that osteopathic medicine is no longer viably different than conventional medicine. Few inherently are so enamored with osteopathic philosophy that the are going to open a DO school so when it comes down to it the only growth in osteopathic medicine can come from either low ranking schools like CUSOM and MUCOM ( schools that cannot dream of possessing anything close to the resources of an MD school), existing conglomerates like Lecom and Touro who want money, or neo-carb directors who wish to milk it for money.

In the end all 3 share the same problem but for different reasons. And as such reevaluating standards probably just would lead to no new DO schools at all.
 
serenade said:
Again, there's no solution there either. Coca and the AOA understand that osteopathic medicine is no longer viably different than conventional medicine. Few inherently are so enamored with osteopathic philosophy that the are going to open a DO school so when it comes down to it the only growth in osteopathic medicine can come from either low ranking schools like CUSOM and MUCOM ( schools that cannot dream of possessing anything close to the resources of an MD school), existing conglomerates like Lecom and Touro who want money, or neo-carb directors who wish to milk it for money.

In the end all 3 share the same problem but for different reasons. And as such reevaluating standards probably just would lead to no new DO schools at all.
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Well I'm not going to just sit on my hands either and not see some sort of progression.

What do you suggest.
 
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