Buying your way into med school

[8744]

...Who wants to carry a diploma from a school with a reputation for these shenanigans?...

Thousands of desperate premeds, most of whom would sell their grandmothers into slavery to get accepted to medical school, that's who.

I don't predict a mass walkout from the school.

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[NewAndImproved]

A search for a new dean doesn't have a big effect on current and future students. The reason the school is looking for a new dean might be something that could/should be of concern to current and future students.

Point taken.

Perhaps this misunderstanding sheds some light on my VR score.

 

[littlealex]

People, you all need to relax... Egregiously unfair circumstances like this happen all the time in the professional world. Our future profession is set up in such a way that if they are not able to sufficiently pass boards and other weed out methods, they will not be able to practice as physicians. To say that he is not qualified or did not 'prove' himself because he didnt take the mcat is absurd. Many med schools accept students without mcats-- while these are programs in which the students have to keep certain gpa's etc, the mcat and pre-med courses certainly are not litmus tests for becoming a doctor.

Our profession has safeguards, trust them, get over your own lack of confidence-- and stop blaming stories like these for your difficulty in getting into med school. If you want it enough, you will become a physician, its just a little harder (and significantly easier) for some than others. But hey, that's life-- I grew up in the inner city and attended a hs that did not have science courses after sophmore chemistry. Compare that to the experience most of you probably had with all sorts of ap courses (unfair right?). I didnt let that be an excuse (going to either Weill Cornell or Pitt this fall!!!) Point is: what matters is individual effort and what we as individuals can control. We can control our effort and how much time we put into accomplishing our goals. Leave all this other tomfoolery for the weak-willed... Good luck!

ps. Choosing to withdraw from UF because of this is foolish-- Florida needs doctors and the state allocates money to this institution because of this. What good would a mass exodus away from UF serve? Where's the logic?

1) Yes there are safeguards, and this is a clear case where the safeguards had failed. Sure, Ben M. may still become a qualified physician, but the point here is that there are other more worthy applicants. Ben M. did not earn his spot.

2) I have many offers, and I'm not approaching this from the "OMG this is why I can't get into med school" perspective. I'm coming from the "This should never be allowed to happen if the medical school admissions wish to maintain its legitimacy" perspective.

3) If you have multiple offers, why would you CHOOSE to goto a school that has a dean that lacks integrity? It is not foolish. If I was interested in UF, I would take my 200k somewhere else, to another school where I trust the quality of my classmates. A mass exodus away from UF would send a clear message: **** like this should not be tolerated. I trust that this would set a precedence and ultimately benefit the medical school admissions process. I'm shocked that you do not see the benefit of that. Medicine as a profession relies on the public's trust towards the doctors. If there are even a few cases where people are able to bribe their way into medical school, it would seriously affect the public's perception of their doctor's competency.

Thousands of desperate premeds, most of whom would sell their grandmothers into slavery to get accepted to medical school, that's who.

I don't predict a mass walkout from the school.

The end goal here is not a mass walkout, but a mass walkout of their most qualified students. In the end, the total number of admitted students would not change, but it would likely funnel some of the lesser qualified students to UF, lowering their GPA and MCAT averages for the incoming class, which inevitably ruins UF's reputation. This, in turn, would likely force UF to replace Dean Kone.

 

[callmedonnie]

1) Yes there are safeguards, and this is a clear case where the safeguards had failed. Sure, Ben M. may still become a qualified physician, but the point here is that there are other more worthy applicants. Ben M. did not earn his spot.

2) I have many offers, and I'm not approaching this from the "OMG this is why I can't get into med school" perspective. I'm coming from the "This should never be allowed to happen if the medical school admissions wish to maintain its legitimacy" perspective.

3) If you have multiple offers, why would you CHOOSE to goto a school that has a dean that lacks integrity? It is not foolish. If I was interested in UF, I would take my 200k somewhere else, to another school where I trust the quality of my classmates. A mass exodus away from UF would send a clear message: **** like this should not be tolerated. I trust that this would set a precedence and ultimately benefit the medical school admissions process. I'm shocked that you do not see the benefit of that. Medicine as a profession relies on the public's trust towards the doctors. If there are even a few cases where people are able to bribe their way into medical school, it would seriously affect the public's perception of their doctor's competency.







The end goal here is not a mass walkout, but a mass walkout of their most qualified students. In the end, the total number of admitted students would not change, but it would likely funnel some of the lesser qualified students to UF, lowering their GPA and MCAT averages for the incoming class, which inevitably ruins UF's reputation. This, in turn, would likely force UF to replace Dean Kone.

very nice. at least this should make the withdrawal email easier. ill put in something like, "listen guys, im just trying to protect the mother ship here."

this guy is such a joke

 

[LadyWolverine]

I don't necessarily disagree with using "connections" to get what you want in life. If you have the good fortune to have such means, you'd be a fool not to use them. Is it "fair?" Of course not. But that's how the game is played.

What I don't understand about this case is - why didn't the kid just take the stinkin' MCAT? It's offered more than 2x/year now, and all he would have had to do is just sit for the test. If he was going to be granted admission regardless, then his score wouldn't have mattered, and this whole controversy could have been avoided.

I can't believe the manner in which this Dean refers to his colleages and the school in general. He should be ashamed of himself. You'd hope that someone in his position would be capable of a bit more diplomacy. Or at least be past the point of throwing temper tantrums and hurling insults, especially to people at the same institution. It's obvious what is going on, and if he'd own up, he'd probably get a little more respect.

 

[NewAndImproved]

What I don't understand about this case is - why didn't the kid just take the stinkin' MCAT? It's offered more than 2x/year now, and all he would have had to do is just sit for the test. If he was going to be granted admission regardless, then his score wouldn't have mattered, and this whole controversy could have been avoided.

Maybe, maybe not. The fact that Ben did not take the MCAT or file an AMCAS application came to light after the story broke that UF's dean had overridden the admission committee's decision not to admit him. Even if he would had recorded an MCAT score and submitted an application, to keep things on the down-low, the dean would have had to convince some portion of a 50 person committee to go along with the plan.

 

[sunny1]

I can't believe the manner in which this Dean refers to his colleages and the school in general. He should be ashamed of himself. You'd hope that someone in his position would be capable of a bit more diplomacy. Or at least be past the point of throwing temper tantrums and hurling insults, especially to people at the same institution. It's obvious what is going on, and if he'd own up, he'd probably get a little more respect.

Yeah, I can't believe he was so stupid as to write down his extremely emotional thoughts and EMAIL them for the world to see (which you know is a possibility anytime you put something in an email).

Someone who is that unprofessional (talking about the cowardice of his coworkers) and defensive (assassination attempt - dramatic much?) obviously knows they made the wrong decision. He isn't even trying to justify his actions!

UF and his people are going about this the wrong way and hence it has turned into a miniscandal. He has said better leadership is needed and also transparency... Well, then he should have met with the members of his ADCOM and explained what happened instead of being so tight-lipped about it and then exploding when people second guess him. I mean, come up with some reason that the kid was qualified - even if it's shallow and seethrough. Something is better than nothing in my opinion.

 

[mongrel]

Who wants to carry a diploma from a school with a reputation for these shenanigans?

Eeevil shenanigans...

In a recent phone interview, Cowgill said Kone and Mendelsohn were both "superb" students - adding with a laugh that Kone was quite "handsome."

okay...

 

[NewAndImproved]

I mean, come up with some reason that the kid was qualified - even if it's shallow and seethrough. Something is better than nothing in my opinion.

Several people have expressed similar thoughts.

Which got me thinking...hypothetically speaking, what exactly would it take for a dean to overturn an adcom rejection and admit a student without an MCAT or AMCAS app? Dean Kone has defended his actions by saying that Ben was an exceptional applicant. Pretend for a moment that everything is on the up-and-up. What ECs meet this standard of excellence?

 

[sunny1]

Several people have expressed similar thoughts.

Which got me thinking...hypothetically speaking, what exactly would it take for a dean to overturn an adcom rejection and admit a student without an MCAT or AMCAS app? Dean Kone has defended his actions by saying that Ben was an exceptional applicant. Pretend for a moment that everything is on the up-and-up. What ECs meet this standard of excellence?

Apparently a $500 donation to the governor of FL. I can't find much about him online. But...umm.....his facebook pic is pretty sad. He's shirtless lying on his bed. For reals.

 

[PreMD86]

No. They won't care. He may be a perfectly decent, likable guy and that's all that matters. Only extremely petty, anal compulsive people count other people's chips. If anybody cares at all, after he takes and passes a couple of tests it won't matter. Two years from now nobody will remember, and eight years from now when he finishes residency his patients won't care and he will probably be a good doctor.

Yes, they will care. First of all, we can already rule him out as a decent, likable guy- Anyone who accepts a ticket to medical school without taking the MCAT already lacks integrity and morals. Putting it in terms your jaded logic might comprehend, it's like having a soldier in your platoon that gets a nightly steak, a weekly vacation, and an erotic massage while the rest of you eat sand and jerk off to government issued most wanted terrorists deck of cards.

The biggest problem with this is not that the kid skipped a five hour test that everyone knows has little to do with one's abilities as a physician, It's the slippery slope that's created when people that are directly responsible for other's lives get to their position not by merit, but by social connections.
Didn't take the MCAT? No biggie, he'll pass a couple of exams and prove he deserves to be there. He passed all his exams? No need to take STEPI+II, he'll just pass a couple of rotations and nobody will remember it in 10 years. Passed all of his rotations? no need to take the boards- just do a couple of successful gullbladders and don't let those petty,compulsive, anal chip counters bring you down.

 

[8744]

...The end goal here is not a mass walkout, but a mass walkout of their most qualified students. In the end, the total number of admitted students would not change, but it would likely funnel some of the lesser qualified students to UF, lowering their GPA and MCAT averages for the incoming class, which inevitably ruins UF's reputation. This, in turn, would likely force UF to replace Dean Kone....

Won't happen. Ironically, for a group of people who will eventually become some of the most selfless people in society (because most doctors really do care about their patients and will bend over backwards to help them), premeds are some of the most selfish, self-centered people in the Free World. You have to be to spin your brief encounters with homeless drug addicts into saving the world on your personal statement. They will not give up a spot at their first-choice school, assuming it's UF, for any reason. As for "less qualified" students, you'll find that difference between medical students are insignificant. Everybody's in the top one percent for intelligence in the nation and except for some outliers at either end, well...you'll see.

 

[8744]

Yes, they will care. First of all, we can already rule him out as a decent, likable guy- Anyone who accepts a ticket to medical school without taking the MCAT already lacks integrity and morals. Putting it in terms your jaded logic might comprehend, it's like having a soldier in your platoon that gets a nightly steak, a weekly vacation, and an erotic massage while the rest of you eat sand and jerk off to government issued most wanted terrorists deck of cards.

My best friend in the world (except for my lovely and talented wife, of course) is a compete scoundrel who will subvert any bureaucracy, break any convention he can get away with breaking, jerk the system around to the full extent of his abilities, and basically has a complete disregard for all rules. He has his own code of ethics, of course, and is fiercely loyal to his own wife and his friends but if he wanted to get into medical school and had connections he'd use 'em.

He is a completely likable fellow.

Spare me the military analogies. Medical school and medical school admissions is nothing like being in a combat unit. My friend was a Marine in my Infantry Company, a fellow Platoon Sergeant, and well-like and respected by his Marines.

 

[Doublecortin]

Without even taking the MCAT.

I'm not naive. I know that in the world, it's who you know. But explain to me, a 27-year-old former computer graphics guy who's now back in school to become a doctor how a kid with no MCAT score and no AMCAS application gets into med school? Ding, ding, ding, could it be Daddy's financial contribution to Gov. Crist and Crist's letter of recommendation? This story is disgusting. The selection committee should walk.

http://www.gainesvillesun.com/article/20080410/NEWS/804100319/1007/NEWS

First paragraph.

mad:

 

[Kaustikos]

No. They won't care. He may be a perfectly decent, likable guy and that's all that matters. Only extremely petty, anal compulsive people count other people's chips. If anybody cares at all, after he takes and passes a couple of tests it won't matter. Two years from now nobody will remember, and eight years from now when he finishes residency his patients won't care and he will probably be a good doctor.

Until Hollywood makes a movie about it.

 

[MossPoh]

This is in the Gainesville Sun....this situation was dead in the water before it began. If it unveiled a series of scandals leading to a prostitution ring linked to the dean and Crist, then maybe it'd get some attention.

Is it crap? Yep, but out of the thousands of medical students in the US, I highly doubt this is a recurring theme. He'll probably float through like everyone else. There might be the occasional snicker for the first year, but then people will just get immersed in studying and it'll all fade. He'll probably be a mediocre doctor that is just kind of the there. The guy did get into Northwestern for undergrad, so he isn't completely ******ed. If he were coming from like BCC or some place where you just need a pulse to get in, then I'd be super concerned. I'd like to think I'd be above that scenario, but who knows...it hasn't happened to me. I'll be honest and say my dad has increased his donations to his old med school when he found out I was going premed. It isn't millions of dollars, but it is more than most people would give out of charity......I am still taking the MCAT though.

It is a rare occasion, but I agree with Panda to an extent. His means of conveying it are as straightforward as usual.

 

[PreMD86]

My best friend in the world (except for my lovely and talented wife, of course) is a compete scoundrel who will subvert any bureaucracy, break any convention he can get away with breaking, jerk the system around to the full extent of his abilities, and basically has a complete disregard for all rules. He has his own code of ethics, of course, and is fiercely loyal to his own wife and his friends but if he wanted to get into medical school and had connections he'd use 'em.

He is a completely likable fellow.

Spare me the military analogies. Medical school and medical school admissions is nothing like being in a combat unit. My friend was a Marine in my Infantry Company, a fellow Platoon Sergeant, and well-like and respected by his Marines.

My sincerest apologies for using a military analogy. How dare I compare two groups of young idealistic individuals that are working for a common goal to each other? But hey, a pencil's no M16 and my campus is no Fallujah, so it's clearly apples and oranges.

Slight difference between subverting bureaucracies and breaking conventions, and by-passing them all together. Everyone knows the guy whose dad is a cardiologist at their top choice that got in with a 28. Ever heard of anydbody with the hotzpa of not taking the MCAT at all? Using Connections is one thing, abusing connenctions is something entirely different.

 

[Norua]

He has said better leadership is needed and also transparency... Well, then he should have met with the members of his ADCOM and explained what happened instead of being so tight-lipped about it and then exploding when people second guess him.

It wasn't a meeting with the ADCOM that sparked the infamous email he wrote. It was a meeting with President Machen's staff members. That's what leads me to believe that Machen himself pressured Kone to accept Ben Mendelsohn, and after the story got leaked to the press, used Kone as the fall guy.

Quoting the Gainesville Sun,

"Dr. Lewis Baxter, a professor of psychiatry and neuroscience in the college, has called on Machen to allow for the Faculty Senate to conduct an independent review of Mendelsohn's credentials to determine how he stacked up against other applicants.

"In response to an e-mail from Baxter requesting an independent Faculty Senate inquiry, Machen said he was satisfied with the student's credentials and hoped his own assessment would 'suffice.'"

The President of UF is involved somehow. I would be hesitant to blame just Bruce Kone himself.

 

[PreMD86]

The guy did get into Northwestern for undergrad, so he isn't completely ******ed.

The guy just got into med school w/o an MCAT score. Are you seriously tipping your hat to him for getting into Northwestern?

I'll be honest and say my dad has increased his donations to his old med school when he found out I was going premed. It isn't millions of dollars, but it is more than most people would give out of charity

I hope you at least end up going there. Would'nt wanna see someone whose dad donated a few more greenbacks get in there instead.

 

[sunny1]

It wasn't a meeting with the ADCOM that sparked the infamous email he wrote. It was a meeting with President Machen's staff members. That's what leads me to believe that Machen himself pressured Kone to accept Ben Mendelsohn, and after the story got leaked to the press, used Kone as the fall guy.

Quoting the Gainesville Sun,

"Dr. Lewis Baxter, a professor of psychiatry and neuroscience in the college, has called on Machen to allow for the Faculty Senate to conduct an independent review of Mendelsohn's credentials to determine how he stacked up against other applicants.

"In response to an e-mail from Baxter requesting an independent Faculty Senate inquiry, Machen said he was satisfied with the student's credentials and hoped his own assessment would 'suffice.'"

The President of UF is involved somehow. I would be hesitant to blame just Bruce Kone himself.

Ok, thanks for pointing that out about the context of the email. The whole situation is very confusing.

I guess I can see why he lashed out in his email then. It's unclear who knew what or conspired for what. But when I see Janine Sikes' last line of her email: "Also, any action taken with/or against Kone?" and she cc'd Kone and after they treated him supposedly weird in the meeting that day, I can see why he'd be on edge. Especially if he was told to make the decision.

But if he wasn't pressured by the president and made the decision of his own accord (he reiterates the kid is a great student after all), then... whatever, I'm still confused by all this. Why didn't the guy just apply like regular students do for application this year and then get the favors pulled? I mean, the sheer audacity to not take the MCAT, ask for admission after the deadline, etc. It was a situation screaming for someone to go public with it from the beginning.

Their PR person isn't doing a very good situation with all this!

 

[riceman04]

Very disappointing. Where is the standard of ethics here?

$$$$$ and power will always trump ethics!!!!

GWB is where he is now for the very same reason....gotta love double standards!!!

 

[berkeleyvala]

Feel free to email the guy and let him know what you think. Bruce Kone's email address is [email protected]

With a little digging you can easily find the Presidents email address, and everyone else involved in the story.

 

[riceman04]

dude he probly wont even have to take the boards...

must be nice

hahahahaha that guy is definitely part of the Good Old Boys Club...hmmmmmmmm...I predict a shoe-in for ORTHO!!!!!

"Board scores...puh....who needs them!!!!! Welcome to the club my boy"

hahahaha he has a facebook page

 

[riceman04]

The thing about this is that it seems like going to med school was a flip decision...I mean, how could he have not taken the MCAT???? It means he didn't even TRY to apply to any schools. I mean, the audacity of this move! The fact that he did not at least make the effort to have SOME MCAT score
and use his connections to get in from there (as so many people have done). And the aborted combined program attempt is so fishy and makes NO sense, who applies to a combined BS/MD program in their junior year of college??? It was like he just couldn't be bothered to take the MCAT, so when applying to the MCATless combined program didn't work, he was like what the hell, I'm above putting any effort into this process.

It appears he's a legacy at Northwestern too, so I wouldn't be surprised if he coasted his way in there too.

....This kid has got it made!!!!!

 

[riceman04]

Yeah its kinda strange that they mentioned his name. His life is going to be hell..

He'll probably tell his daddy to tell Charlie Crist to tell govt spying agencies to lay the smack down on all the people who are making fun of him.

 

[mdgator]

No. They won't care. He may be a perfectly decent, likable guy and that's all that matters. Only extremely petty, anal compulsive people count other people's chips. If anybody cares at all, after he takes and passes a couple of tests it won't matter. Two years from now nobody will remember, and eight years from now when he finishes residency his patients won't care and he will probably be a good doctor.

You don't know the Gainesville Sun or the Alligator like I do...I'm pretty sure this one's not going away that easy, unless he withdraws...and my bet is he withdraws.

very nice. at least this should make the withdrawal email easier. ill put in something like, "listen guys, im just trying to protect the mother ship here." this guy is such a joke

You'd pick up some major respect points from this guy...for what that's worth. Mostly it'd just be really funny.

What I don't understand about this case is - why didn't the kid just take the stinkin' MCAT? It's offered more than 2x/year now, and all he would have had to do is just sit for the test. If he was going to be granted admission regardless, then his score wouldn't have mattered, and this whole controversy could have been avoided.

Here's why it makes sense for him not to take the test. If he doesn't take it, the dean can accept him and say "he is an exceptional applicant", or whatever it was he said. But if he takes it and bombs...say, less than a 26...then how does the dean expect to spin THAT? (Maybe the number is even lower, but you get my point.)

 

[riceman04]

No. They won't care. He may be a perfectly decent, likable guy and that's all that matters. Only extremely petty, anal compulsive people count other people's chips. If anybody cares at all, after he takes and passes a couple of tests it won't matter. Two years from now nobody will remember, and eight years from now when he finishes residency his patients won't care and he will probably be a good doctor.

Panda is already setting himself up to get a potential handout from this kid's family!!!!

He's trying to appear neutral/reasonable in his posts but all know he's trying to GET THAT $$$$$$$!!!!

That's right Panda, rock those spin room skills. GET THAT $$$$$$$!!!


j/k

 

[VinDiesel]

It wasn't a meeting with the ADCOM that sparked the infamous email he wrote. It was a meeting with President Machen's staff members. That's what leads me to believe that Machen himself pressured Kone to accept Ben Mendelsohn, and after the story got leaked to the press, used Kone as the fall guy.

Quoting the Gainesville Sun,

"Dr. Lewis Baxter, a professor of psychiatry and neuroscience in the college, has called on Machen to allow for the Faculty Senate to conduct an independent review of Mendelsohn's credentials to determine how he stacked up against other applicants.

"In response to an e-mail from Baxter requesting an independent Faculty Senate inquiry, Machen said he was satisfied with the student's credentials and hoped his own assessment would 'suffice.'"

The President of UF is involved somehow. I would be hesitant to blame just Bruce Kone himself.

I think you are exactly right. And when Kone said "an obvious assassination attempt," this is what he was maybe referring to (taking the blame away from Machen)

 

[riceman04]

As a black male I am feeling like I can take a breather for just a second!!!! Free oxygen for me!!!!

THANK YOU BENJAMIN MENDEHLSON!!!!!!!!

 

[mdgator]

Are you seriously tipping your hat to him for getting into Northwestern?

I agree. I mean, his obviously wealthy and unscrupulous father is a Northwestern alum...

 

[riceman04]

Yep, gotta love nepotism! White people's affirmative action.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhh ohhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

 

[closer23]

No. They won't care. He may be a perfectly decent, likable guy and that's all that matters. Only extremely petty, anal compulsive people count other people's chips. If anybody cares at all, after he takes and passes a couple of tests it won't matter. Two years from now nobody will remember, and eight years from now when he finishes residency his patients won't care and he will probably be a good doctor.

I partially disagree. Even though he may have gotten into medical school through unethical means, there's a perfectly good chance he'll end up graduating legitimately, and becoming a successful doctor. Assuming this is what happens, he will still most likely not be able to escape the ridicule. Even if it's perfectly obvious he's doing just as well as anyone else through hard work and not anything else, people will most likely continue saying: "He probably only succeeded due to his daddy's money."

If I were him, I don't know what it'd do.

 

[Doublecortin]

Honestly though, it's a shame they mentioned the student by name.

Talk about a national embarrassment.

At the very least, I'm sure his facebook is taking a beating these days.

are you serious? why is it a shame this schmuck should be run out of town and end up practicing somewhere in rural Guatemala

 

[Norua]

I guess I can see why he lashed out in his email then. It's unclear who knew what or conspired for what. But when I see Janine Sikes' last line of her email: "Also, any action taken with/or against Kone?" and she cc'd Kone and after they treated him supposedly weird in the meeting that day, I can see why he'd be on edge. Especially if he was told to make the decision.

Their PR person isn't doing a very good situation with all this!

You're right, whoever is running PR for UF is completely dropping the ball on this one. Or this situation is so blatantly unethical that they don't have good enough PR people to spin it in a positive light.

That email Janine Sikes cc'd Kone on was a list of questions/requests by the Gainesville Sun for their planned article. I think the meeting Kone had with Machen's staff was (speculating) to tell him which direction UF was heading with the information they were gonna give to the Sun. Which could explain his anger for doing the higher-ups' dirty work and then taking all the blame for it.

 

[Norua]

are you serious? why is it a shame this schmuck should be run out of town and end up practicing somewhere in rural Guatemala

I agree. We don't know who set this whole thing up, but if Mendelsohn is as bold as to go ahead and put UF Grad Student '12 on his Facebook profile then he's just as unethical as the admins who orchestrated his admission to medical school.

Ben Mendelsohn and I apparently have 1 mutual Facebook friend. I'm going to ask her what the deal is with this kid.

 

[ZarbK2]

People, you all need to relax... Egregiously unfair circumstances like this happen all the time in the professional world. Our future profession is set up in such a way that if they are not able to sufficiently pass boards and other weed out methods, they will not be able to practice as physicians. To say that he is not qualified or did not 'prove' himself because he didnt take the mcat is absurd. Many med schools accept students without mcats-- while these are programs in which the students have to keep certain gpa's etc, the mcat and pre-med courses certainly are not litmus tests for becoming a doctor.

Our profession has safeguards, trust them, get over your own lack of confidence-- and stop blaming stories like these for your difficulty in getting into med school. If you want it enough, you will become a physician, its just a little harder (and significantly easier) for some than others. But hey, that's life-- I grew up in the inner city and attended a hs that did not have science courses after sophmore chemistry. Compare that to the experience most of you probably had with all sorts of ap courses (unfair right?). I didnt let that be an excuse (going to either Weill Cornell or Pitt this fall!!!) Point is: what matters is individual effort and what we as individuals can control. We can control our effort and how much time we put into accomplishing our goals. Leave all this other tomfoolery for the weak-willed... Good luck!

ps. Choosing to withdraw from UF because of this is foolish-- Florida needs doctors and the state allocates money to this institution because of this. What good would a mass exodus away from UF serve? Where's the logic?

I know I'm a bit late to the thread, but I'm already accepted for the fall, I'm still pissed that this guy got in over someone who worked their *** off to get a good GPA and good MCAT. It's so unethical I feel nauseous!

 

[ufgrad00]

The guy did get into Northwestern for undergrad, so he isn't completely ******ed. If he were coming from like BCC or some place where you just need a pulse to get in, then I'd be super concerned. I'd like to think I'd be above that scenario, but who knows...it hasn't happened to me. I'll be honest and say my dad has increased his donations to his old med school when he found out I was going premed.

The students father graduated from Northwestern Medical School. Legacy status got him into Northwestern. Not good test scores, not a good gpa, not even charisma. It seems he has been riding coat tails since he graduated highschool.

 

[ufgrad00]

Won't happen. Ironically, for a group of people who will eventually become some of the most selfless people in society (because most doctors really do care about their patients and will bend over backwards to help them), premeds are some of the most selfish, self-centered people in the Free World. You have to be to spin your brief encounters with homeless drug addicts into saving the world on your personal statement. They will not give up a spot at their first-choice school, assuming it's UF, for any reason. As for "less qualified" students, you'll find that difference between medical students are insignificant. Everybody's in the top one percent for intelligence in the nation and except for some outliers at either end, well...you'll see.

You make it seem med school is so wonderful. Like the medical community is a loving band of brothers and sisters.

Seriously, some of the doctors I know still talk badly about the kids that dropped out of med school and went to the caribbean schools. Even some of the older ones in practice still refuse to refer to DO's putting them on the same level as voodoo witch doctor. I have the feeling that the snickering, hard feelings, and rumors will carry on through this students career in school and residency.

While the school is at it, why don't they also accept Paris Hilton or Lindsay Lohan. They wouldn't need to take any sort of test or application to get in, just assure the dean that they will occasionally write a check.

 

[uni8685]

I know I'm a bit late to the thread, but I'm already accepted for the fall, I'm still pissed that this guy got in over someone who worked their *** off to get a good GPA and good MCAT. It's so unethical I feel nauseous!

Fair enough-- everyone is entitled to their own feelings/opinion on this situation. What I mean't by safeguards in the system, is more on the end of the process of becoming a physician starting in medical school. In terms of sheer competence if someone is able pass their courses, pass the boards, and succesfully complete residency, other things equal this person is qualified to practice medicine (notwithstanding humanism/ethics/professionalism etc). To say that this person shouldnt be granted admission because he didnt take out two months of his life to study for the mcat is in my opinion absurd. Many people in medical school have not taken the mcat-- look at any program that guarantees admission to exceptional high school students. Do i agree that it is unfair that someone wrote a check to get this guy into UF- YES, absolutely. Should other students, independent in interests and belief choose not to attend the school because of an imprudent dean? Absolutely NOT! These students will learn medicine and be no less competent than students in my future medical class. The accredidation process is extremely rigorous for medical school-- one bad dean will not hurt the reputation of UF...

Lastly, someone else misinterpreted something else I said. Of course you don't have to go to UF to be a physician in Florida. Are you kidding me? What I was trying to convey is that you shouldn't punish Florida tax payers by walking out of the school. Taxes go to the school to produce the best physicians possible for the state. I have to go now-- or else I would finish my point... rational people will understand where im getting to with that.

 

[ufgrad00]

Do you know this for a fact?

Do you know for a fact that it isn't? Given that the student never did anything that qualified him for medical school, (no mcat and no application) why should anyone think that he is just a gifted student that works hard?

 

[gwill024]

this thread and story are beyond entertaining...also quite infuriating.

Of course we all know this happens again and again in undergrad. I personally know of two individuals who used their father's legacy status (and financial donations) to get into the liberal arts college of their choice. You would hope this would die out when you start hearing about the MD becoming more and more merit based. There must be those good ol' boys out there willing to pull these kind of favors for their chums, I wish I knew a few of them .

 

[PreMD86]

To say that this person shouldnt be granted admission because he didnt take out two months of his life to study for the mcat is in my opinion absurd.

I wholeheartedly agree! In addition, to say that a person shouldnt be granted admission because they didn't take four years of their lives to attaining an undergraduate degree is also absurd. That's why Stewart University is #1!

Many people in medical school have not taken the mcat-- look at any program that guarantees admission to exceptional high school students.

7 and 8 year program students still take the MCAT- the standards are usually lower for them (27-30 minimum).

What I was trying to convey is that you shouldn't punish Florida tax payers by walking out of the school. Taxes go to the school to produce the best physicians possible for the state. I have to go now-- or else I would finish my point... rational people will understand where im getting to with that.

 

[uni8685]

I wholeheartedly agree! In addition, to say that a person shouldnt be granted admission because they didn't take four years of their lives to attaining an undergraduate degree is also absurd. That's why Stewart University is #1!



7 and 8 year program students still take the MCAT- the standards are usually lower for them (27-30 minimum).





No, actually a number of the ugrad-med school programs do not require the MCAT--- eg. Rice-Baylor Med. Again, pre-med/mcat is not a litmus test for treating patients, it all starts in med school. All this entitlement crap pre-meds feel for making a B in orgo is garbage, get over yourselves, this is a long process those that are able to (I hope all of us that are humble and willing to) will be become physicians. For others that are not cut out for it-- eg. struggling during ms years 1 and 2/poor board scores, will not treat patients. Simple as that.

Let it go-- he's in.

 

[gwill024]

No, actually a number of the ugrad-med school programs do not require the MCAT--- eg. Rice-Baylor Med. Again, pre-med/mcat is not a litmus test for treating patients, it all starts in med school....

Thats fine...but he was still originally rejected by the adcom and then they were over-ruled by some higher up. The MCAT is used universally (with differing degrees of importance) by all US allos. Many medical schools are re-thinking those programs because making a decision without the tools like the MCAT or even an UG degree has proven to be dangerous in accurately assessing the potential success of the applicant.

EDIT: sorry I quoted you before you edited your post.

 

[MsJLewis]

Also Mt. Sinai, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, has a program where you can get accepted in Sophomore year of college without taking the MCAT if you have majored in the humanities. So not ALL US Allo schools strictly require the MCAT.

 

[ufgrad00]

No, actually a number of the ugrad-med school programs do not require the MCAT--- eg. Rice-Baylor Med. Again, pre-med/mcat is not a litmus test for treating patients, it all starts in med school. All this entitlement crap pre-meds feel for making a B in orgo is garbage, get over yourselves, this is a long process those that are able to (I hope all of us that are humble and willing to) will be become physicians. For others that are not cut out for it-- eg. struggling during ms years 1 and 2/poor board scores, will not treat patients. Simple as that.

Let it go-- he's in.

Brooke Hogan is a Fl resident. By your standards she should become a UF med student. The dean will just waive her through without an interview, MCAT, or secondary as long as she can cut a check.

Junior honors students and high school student that get in their programs still have to perform in the top 5% of standardized tests like the SAT and they have to go through applications and interviews. This kid applied in Februrary (a month after the AMCAS deadline) and got in without an interview, MCAT, or secondary application.

 

[gwill024]

Also Mt. Sinai, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, has a program where you can get accepted in Sophomore year of college without taking the MCAT if you have majored in the humanities. So not ALL US Allo schools strictly require the MCAT.

touche

 

[LadyWolverine]

Ok, thanks for pointing that out about the context of the email. The whole situation is very confusing.

The article isn't exactly well-written. I had to read it over a couple of times just to make sure I understood who-did-what-when.

I guess I can see why he lashed out in his email then. It's unclear who knew what or conspired for what. But when I see Janine Sikes' last line of her email: "Also, any action taken with/or against Kone?" and she cc'd Kone and after they treated him supposedly weird in the meeting that day, I can see why he'd be on edge. Especially if he was told to make the decision.

But if he wasn't pressured by the president and made the decision of his own accord (he reiterates the kid is a great student after all), then... whatever, I'm still confused by all this.

There was likely some pressure coming from the top down (hello, Machen wouldn't allow the Faculty Senate to conduct an independent review of Mendelsohn's application - instead, he dismissed Dr. Baxter's request by replying that his own opinion should "suffice" - this is what makes my blood boil. If he didn't have any involvement in the matter, he shouldn't have made this statement). But if Dean Kone was "asked" by Machen to override the committee's decision and accept Mendelsohn (and then made the scapegoat), why then the whole bit about "having guts and standing up for your principles?" If he wanted the rest of the faculty to stand up and overturn a decision coming from the President of the University, he should have been the first to say "No, we cannot accept this student without the proper credentials." Especially if this guy is such a tyrant - what did he expect would happen?

 

[DulyNoted]

Well, he may take it, get a 185, and get an opthalmology residency spot his daddy bought him.

On that note, I'm not really shocked that it happened, I'm shocked how little money it took to buy that seat. They contribute around 33,000 a year and got their son into med school. Holy crap.
I know people who will easily shell out half a million for a spot in med school, I guess they just don't have the right people to give the money to.

What the..? Why would anyone contribute half a million dollars for more than 1 year to buy their child's way into medical school? Contributing 33,000 per year for the length of a person's working life will add up to many millions of dollars stashed away for retirement through very basic, very conservative investing. That is an enormous amount of post-tax money that they've used to buy their (probably already very wealthy through UTMA) son an incredibly high stress career with greatly delayed earnings. Financially, it makes no sense. I'm also of the opinion that if he is just an average physician who is not really qualified to be there in the first place, then any status he might obtain (academically, financially, whatever) would be more easily won in careers with less objective metrics for measuring performance.

 

[riceman04]

are you serious? why is it a shame this schmuck should be run out of town and end up practicing somewhere in rural Guatemala

geeze...what did rural Guatemala do to you?