Buying your way into med school

[Arc]

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Very disappointing. Where is the standard of ethics here?

You do realize that if a celeb or a politician had a kid that wanted to go to med school, it will be the same way?

 

[riceman04]

You do realize that if a celeb or a politician had a kid that wanted to go to med school, it will be the same way?

You are suggesting that realmd is implying an exception is only being made for this kid. I don't think he was implying that at all.

 

[chudog15]

are you actually trying to defend this student and his illegal accpetance procedure?

 

[LizzyM]

What the..? Why would anyone contribute half a million dollars for more than 1 year to buy their child's way into medical school? Contributing 33,000 per year for the length of a person's working life will add up to many millions of dollars stashed away for retirement through very basic, very conservative investing. That is an enormous amount of post-tax money that they've used to buy their (probably already very wealthy through UTMA) son an incredibly high stress career with greatly delayed earnings. Financially, it makes no sense. I'm also of the opinion that if he is just an average physician who is not really qualified to be there in the first place, then any status he might obtain (academically, financially, whatever) would be more easily won in careers with less objective metrics for measuring performance.

This is how I understand the situation. A physician is a supporter of Repubican candidates. He and his son (and perhaps other family members) have donated to the campaign fund of a candidate for governor. The physician opens his home to other physicians and invites them to a fund raiser on behalf of the Republican candidate for governor. The event raises $100,000 for the candidate. The candidate is elected and goes on to recommend a young man (who personally donated $500 to his campaign) for admission to the state's school of medicine. In what appear to be a very unorthodox situation, the young man is offered admission to the medical school.

So, no one was paying a bribe to get into medical school. People who support political candidates often do so because they support the party platform and want to advance a particular political cause. That elected officials sometimes "take care of" their supporters with opportunities that aren't generally available to the rest of us is the quid pro quo of politics.

 

[LadyWolverine]

So, no one was paying a bribe to get into medical school. People who support political candidates often do so because they support the party platform and want to advance a particular political cause. That elected officials sometimes "take care of" their supporters with opportunities that aren't generally available to the rest of us is the quid pro quo of politics.

You're right, there was no mention of any sort of bribe (hence the title of this thread isn't exactly warranted). And, as I said before, there's nothing wrong with using connections to get what you want. But the string-pulling in this case was not executed in a very discrete manner - and this was unwise. The admissions committee was not on board, because (at the very least) the candidate did not have the appropriate application materials - no MCAT, no AMCAS, past the deadline. If there was going to be some "taking care of" going on, you would think they would have made sure all of their ducks were in a row before admitting this guy, instead of relying on a policy that has only been used one other time in history and then acting like there's no cause for all of the negative attention and "conjecture." On top of that, the President and Dean are both acting like this kid's acceptance has absolutely nothing to do with his "connections" - quite an insulting whopper to anyone with half a shred of common sense (which I'm sure comprises a fairly significant amount of the voting and tax-paying population of Florida).
Use your connections, that's fine. But if you're going to flaunt them as though you are above the law, be prepared to explain yourself when the **** hits the fan and people want answers.

 

[1956Goldtop]

Wow this is pretty disgusting...

 

[TheRealMD]

Yes, they will care. First of all, we can already rule him out as a decent, likable guy- Anyone who accepts a ticket to medical school without taking the MCAT already lacks integrity and morals. Putting it in terms your jaded logic might comprehend, it's like having a soldier in your platoon that gets a nightly steak, a weekly vacation, and an erotic massage while the rest of you eat sand and jerk off to government issued most wanted terrorists deck of cards.

The biggest problem with this is not that the kid skipped a five hour test that everyone knows has little to do with one's abilities as a physician, It's the slippery slope that's created when people that are directly responsible for other's lives get to their position not by merit, but by social connections.
Didn't take the MCAT? No biggie, he'll pass a couple of exams and prove he deserves to be there. He passed all his exams? No need to take STEPI+II, he'll just pass a couple of rotations and nobody will remember it in 10 years. Passed all of his rotations? no need to take the boards- just do a couple of successful gullbladders and don't let those petty,compulsive, anal chip counters bring you down.

Everyone knows that a slippery slope exists in med school admissions. The problem arises when it turns into a huge gaping cliff. 😕

 

[TheRealMD]

You do realize that if a celeb or a politician had a kid that wanted to go to med school, it will be the same way?

I should have made my statement more explicit. Where is MEDICAL standard of ethics here? I know undergrads do this all the time because, let's face it, at the end of the day it only affects on person. But when you start giving special favors to would-be doctors, then we've reached a NEW level of unacceptable.

 

[callmedonnie]

first thing, lets keep in mind while this stuff does happen at every level of higher education, the fact that this kid didnt do ANY of the requirements for admission makes this case very unique.

for anyone who says UF COM wont be affected...WRONG!!! the current students applying to residency have to ask for a deans letter from this bozo kone, who most likely has no credibility among the medical community.

this is my primary reason for withdrawing. im not offended as much as i simply dont want someone as dirty as bruce kone vouching for my viability as a future resident. would you feel comfortable having him author a confidential letter of the sort?? this guy thinks his job description is to "bite bullets" and "protect the mother ship."

what a joke.

 

[MedRower]

You're right, there was no mention of any sort of bribe (hence the title of this thread isn't exactly warranted).

Read between the lines. It may not be a bribe, but "buying" ones way in is implied. I would bet my first born that this involved earmarks.

Edit: Everyone knows what I mean by that, right?

 

[isitoveryet]

the worst thing about all of this is that it did not surprise me to read it.

 

[Norua]

you would think they would have made sure all of their ducks were in a row before admitting this guy, instead of relying on a policy that has only been used one other time in history and then acting like there's no cause for all of the negative attention and "conjecture."

The precedent had been set, but was never anywhere near the level of what Kone is using it for now. One student in 2002 was rejected pre-interview and appealed his decision. Dr. Tisher overruled the decision to reject the student and offered him an interview. He then took his hands off and let the rest of the admissions process take place. The interviewers never knew he was rejected and recommended him for admission, a decision that was echoed by the admissions committee.

That's probably one of the worst parts of this story. The student had turned everything in on time and was appealing his decision (a thought that has likely run through all of our heads). His admission decision was still given by a faculty committee, and most importantly, the student showed that he wanted and deserved to be there. And Bruce Kone is using what happened then as a free pass to do what he's done now.

 

[mdgator]

for anyone who says UF COM wont be affected...WRONG!!! the current students applying to residency have to ask for a deans letter from this bozo kone, who most likely has no credibility among the medical community.

this is my primary reason for withdrawing. im not offended as much as i simply dont want someone as dirty as bruce kone vouching for my viability as a future resident. would you feel comfortable having him author a confidential letter of the sort?? this guy thinks his job description is to "bite bullets" and "protect the mother ship."

what a joke.

This is a great point. I honestly don't know how Kone's reputation will be perceived by the greater medical community, especially four years from now. His career could be devastated, or it may be swept under the rug, for the most part, by that time. But I'll always know he's crooked, and I'm not the only one.

 

[SStorm]

I wonder if the LCME is going to get involved in this. This clearly violates LCME bylaws (assuming it is true). Here's a quote from their accreditation standards

III. MEDICAL STUDENTS
A. Admissions
2. Selection. The faculty of each school must develop criteria and procedures for the selection of students that are readily available to potential applicants and to their collegiate advisors. The final responsibility for selecting students to be admitted for medical study must reside with a duly constituted faculty committee.

Each medical school must have a pool of applicants sufficiently large and possessing national level qualifications to fill its entering class. Medical schools must select students who possess the intelligence, integrity, and personal and emotional characteristics necessary for them to become effective physicians. The selection of individual students must not be influenced by any political or financial factors. Each medical school should have policies and practices ensuring the gender, racial, cultural, and economic diversity of its students. Each school must develop and publish technical standards for admission of handicapped applicants, in accordance with legal requirements.

The institution's catalog or equivalent informational materials must describe the requirements for the M.D. and all associated joint degree programs, provide the most recent academic calendar for each curricular option, and describe all required courses and clerkships offered by the school. The catalog or informational materials must also enumerate the school's criteria for selecting students, and describe the admissions process.

 

[Team Zissou]

for anyone who says UF COM wont be affected...WRONG!!! the current students applying to residency have to ask for a deans letter from this bozo kone, who most likely has no credibility among the medical community.



what a joke.

Dr. Duff, the associate Dean for student affairs, writes your dean's letter at UF, not Kone.

 

[callmedonnie]

Dr. Duff, the associate Dean for student affairs, writes your dean's letter at UF, not Kone.

my fault

 

[Team Zissou]

no prob. I wonder what the outcome of this whole thing will be..

 

[TheRealMD]

my fault

Yea, it's best not to jump to conclusions and spread incorrect info. But we forgive you.

 

[medisaur]

If anyone read the Alligator today (our newspaper), it says:

"But Kone said in any incoming class in his college, nearly 10 percent of the students have not taken the exam. "

That can't be true, can it? I was curious so I looked at the COM website and it says that every applicant must take the MCAT.

Sounds like the Dean is digging himself into a deep hole.

/edit: ahh he was admitted through Junior Honors... which you don't need the MCAT. but i'm confused, is this kid graduating with a degree from NU this year?

 

[Dendrite]

If anyone read the Alligator today (our newspaper), it says:

"But Kone said in any incoming class in his college, nearly 10 percent of the students have not taken the exam. "

That can't be true, can it? I was curious so I looked at the COM website and it says that every applicant must take the MCAT.

Sounds like the Dean is digging himself into a deep hole.

Approximately 15 students in every incoming class is apart of the Junior Honors Medical Program. It is a super-competitive program where FL residents can apply to get into the program in their sophomore year, and after their third year, they automatically get a spot in the UF COM; they do not have to take the MCAT, which only makes the program that much more competitive to get into. So it's approximately 10-11% of 135 students.

This Ben kid, however, was never apart of that program; he was rejected.

 

[medisaur]

Approximately 15 students in every incoming class is apart of the Junior Honors Medical Program. It is a super-competitive program where FL residents can apply to get into the program in their sophomore year, and after their third year, they automatically get a spot in the UF COM; they do not have to take the MCAT, which only makes the program that much more competitive to get into. So it's approximately 10-11% of 135 students.

This Ben kid, however, was never apart of that program; he was rejected.

Yea, I forgot about Junior Honors (I'm a UF ugrad). I would not think that he would include that section of students in his statistic because they are not regularly admitted students.

One article mentioned that the dean had asked for him to be admitted through the program, but did not say that he had been rejected.

 

[Arc]

I should have made my statement more explicit. Where is MEDICAL standard of ethics here? I know undergrads do this all the time because, let's face it, at the end of the day it only affects on person. But when you start giving special favors to would-be doctors, then we've reached a NEW level of unacceptable.

Oh, gotcha. I'm pretty sure no amount of money is going to convince a school to accept someone that is incapable of doing a good job.

 

[HumidBeing]

One reason a 27 year old student might have LOR's from the governor and high school principal emailed to the president instead of having science profs submit theirs to the admissions office, & neither take the MCAT nor fill out the AMCAS, might be that the student had no desire to attend med school. The requests for recommendation letters could have come from the parent. The application could have been filled in under pressure. Parents who have ambitions for their kids have done some strange things, and kids find their own ways to rebel against them.

I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm only trying to imagine why anyone would submit an non-standard application without at least bothering to fulfill the basic requirements.

 

[callmedonnie]

no prob. I wonder what the outcome of this whole thing will be..

probly juicy

we can only hope

 

[Monkey House]

UF got caught this time...but do you think this happens a lot and at other places...but just goes under the radar?

 

[D-Bone]

UF got caught this time...but do you think this happens a lot and at other places...but just goes under the radar?

Kinda like your parents having sex. You know it happens...you just don't want to know about it.

 

[bishr]

UF got caught this time...but do you think this happens a lot and at other places...but just goes under the radar?

I could see that happening.

 

[Monkey House]

Kinda like your parents having sex. You know it happens...you just don't want to know about it.

😱

 

[jtdallas]

This may have already been said, and the only reason I cannot clarify is the fact that I am bored of reading the same reply. I am by no means claiming this particular situation is fair, but I must say, safely, that probably 75% of everyone would matriculate under these circumstances, if they were presented to them. Of course, there is that feeling of accomplishment that we all strive for, but in the end if the goal is met, most are satisfied. The individual accepting this seat will definitely have to maintain excellence to become a doctor, therefore the success/failure is solely on that specific student (with added pressure on the dean). Once medical school is done and boards are passed, though, what will this students title be... DOCTOR! I think most of us, including me are jealous of his/her potential job title, and the moral of the story is "life is not fair," and there will always be nepotism.

 

[Wylde]

No. They won't care. He may be a perfectly decent, likable guy and that's all that matters. Only extremely petty, anal compulsive people count other people's chips. If anybody cares at all, after he takes and passes a couple of tests it won't matter. Two years from now nobody will remember, and eight years from now when he finishes residency his patients won't care and he will probably be a good doctor.

I would care!!

It says a lot about someone's character if they are willing to accept everything in life and not put into any effort. If someone offered me admission (especially without taking the MCAT) I would honestly deny it in a heartbeat. I would feel absolutely terrible and impotent, I want to earn my place in society and in my career.

 

[SwampGator]

I wholeheartedly agree! In addition, to say that a person shouldnt be granted admission because they didn't take four years of their lives to attaining an undergraduate degree is also absurd. That's why Stewart University is #1!



7 and 8 year program students still take the MCAT- the standards are usually lower for them (27-30 minimum).





No, actually a number of the ugrad-med school programs do not require the MCAT--- eg. Rice-Baylor Med. Again, pre-med/mcat is not a litmus test for treating patients, it all starts in med school. All this entitlement crap pre-meds feel for making a B in orgo is garbage, get over yourselves, this is a long process those that are able to (I hope all of us that are humble and willing to) will be become physicians. For others that are not cut out for it-- eg. struggling during ms years 1 and 2/poor board scores, will not treat patients. Simple as that.

Let it go-- he's in.

Are you Ben Mendelsohn's PR guy?

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

This is how I understand the situation. A physician is a supporter of Repubican candidates. He and his son (and perhaps other family members) have donated to the campaign fund of a candidate for governor. The physician opens his home to other physicians and invites them to a fund raiser on behalf of the Republican candidate for governor. The event raises $100,000 for the candidate. The candidate is elected and goes on to recommend a young man (who personally donated $500 to his campaign) for admission to the state's school of medicine. In what appear to be a very unorthodox situation, the young man is offered admission to the medical school.

So, no one was paying a bribe to get into medical school. People who support political candidates often do so because they support the party platform and want to advance a particular political cause. That elected officials sometimes "take care of" their supporters with opportunities that aren't generally available to the rest of us is the quid pro quo of politics.

From the tone of your post I would infer that these sorts of shenanigans occur at your institution, LizzyM. Is that true?

One good thing that will come out of this is that the students reading this thread may not be so quick to judge DO's and Carib students as inferior.

If I were to attend UF's med school I would just never speak to this yahoo who got in on pull. I would make it very clear that he has no business being there.

 

[callmedonnie]

UF got caught this time...but do you think this happens a lot and at other places...but just goes under the radar?

ya but in the preferential treatment cases ive seen the applicants at least apply to the school and take the mcat. they might be duds on paper but at least they do the req's.

 

[LizzyM]

From the tone of your post I would infer that these sorts of shenanigans occur at your institution, LizzyM. Is that true?

One good thing that will come out of this is that the students reading this thread may not be so quick to judge DO's and Carib students as inferior.

If I were to attend UF's med school I would just never speak to this yahoo who got in on pull. I would make it very clear that he has no business being there.

I don't understand why you would make that inference from the tone of my post. I was responding to someone who thought that $30,000 year was paid to someone to achieve an offspring's admission to the school and the observation that investment of that amount of money annually would be a better way to provide for an offspring's future. I was only pointing out that donations to political campaigns generally spring from support of the party platform (Dr. Medelsohn being reported having made >90% of his donations to Republican causes -- unlike some who buy influence on a grand scale by contributing to both sides in a race) and not an attempt to buy a favor. The favors, I believe, come from gratitude and the hope of continued political support.

Public schools are far more likely to suffer from political pressures given that they receive substantial financial support from the state government. Private schools are more insulated from such pressure but none of us are blind to the political corruption we see in the news on a daily basis.

 

[Just Joshin]

No, actually a number of the ugrad-med school programs do not require the MCAT--- eg. Rice-Baylor Med. Again, pre-med/mcat is not a litmus test for treating patients, it all starts in med school. All this entitlement crap pre-meds feel for making a B in orgo is garbage, get over yourselves, this is a long process those that are able to (I hope all of us that are humble and willing to) will be become physicians. For others that are not cut out for it-- eg. struggling during ms years 1 and 2/poor board scores, will not treat patients. Simple as that.

We have a physician shortage in this country and not enough med school seats to meet the health care demand (which will only rise if any kind of universal health care measure is passed). The seats we do have should be used for students who WILL pass their boards and WILL become physicians, not for ones who never proved they can handle the courseload and the politics of med school by jumping through all the hoops the rest of us have.

 

[searun]

Gosh, poor Ben is probably going to have a lousy time during the first year orientation festivities. Did he go to second look and party hearty?

 

[Dendrite]

Gosh, poor Ben is probably going to have a lousy time during the first year orientation festivities. Did he go to second look and party hearty?

Second Look is coming up shortly, but I'm sure a lot of this will be brought up.

 

[katarzyna]

I'm still confused about Benjamin Mendelsohn's actual status in school. Was he in high school last year? Did he apply to the junior honors program and then, upon being denied admission, start undergrad at NU (which would mean he just got "accepted" into med school as a college freshman)? Or was he already an established junior at NU applying to a 7-year BS/MD program?

Ben Mendelsohn has a facebook profile. It says NU '08 / UF Grad Student '12.

Bored?

flood his Facebook inbox

jk.

 

[TxiL86]

this kind of stuff is more common then u guys may think. my friend's cousin got an interview from loyola because his dad used his connections and money. this kid was a business major who just switched to premed last year and hasnt taken organic chemistry or the MCAT. i never asked if he got accepted or not, but getting an interview is a pretty big deal too. I think he also got an interview from SIU.

 

[1956Goldtop]

that's pretty messed....

 

[TheRealMD]

this kind of stuff is more common then u guys may think. my friend's cousin got an interview from loyola because his dad used his connections and money. this kid was a business major who just switched to premed last year and hasnt taken organic chemistry or the MCAT. i never asked if he got accepted or not, but getting an interview is a pretty big deal too. I think he also got an interview from SIU.

On the scale of bull****: Acceptance without MCAT >>>>>>>>>> Interview from connections

 

[zhousilai]

talking about buying your way into med school...my friend was offered an opportunity to get into the BS/MD program at NJUMD for $90,000

 

[chemcu]

.

 

[gplex86]

Nebs! Unacceptable! What have you done to your Kone???

 

[MedRower]

Meh. I know a doctor in our parents generation who had a classmate at HMS who decided he wanted to attend medical school a month or so before classes began, and they found a room for him. Obviously he hadn't taken the MCAT. But, these were different times and he was a superstar in some respects. So, maybe going around the standard operating procedures is a good thing, sometimes.

 

[Perrotfish]

On the scale of bull****: Acceptance without MCAT >>>>>>>>>> Interview from connections

Also, hate to say it, I´m WAY more sympathetic to someone whose kid got in because they were very financially supportive of the school rather than because they´re best buds of the current governor. At least if Daddy paid for a new couple of buildings you might argue that he improved the quality of the medical school class more than his kid dragged it down. Not saying it´s right, but it would piss me off less.

 

[justletmeinplz]

...and to think my 32 MCAT didn't even get me an interview at UF. My dad graduated from UF undergrad (as did I), UF MD, and UF residency in Rad Onc. Maybe he should have just given Dean Kone a call instead of letting me try to get in (and eventually fail to do so) on my own merits..

 

[frikarika]

...and to think my 32 MCAT didn't even get me an interview at UF. My dad graduated from UF undergrad (as did I), UF MD, and UF residency in Rad Onc. Maybe he should have just given Dean Kone a call instead of letting me try to get in (and eventually fail to do so) on my own merits..

wow, that's horrible. Not even an interview? They should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[pride4jc727]

People, you all need to relax... Egregiously unfair circumstances like this happen all the time in the professional world. Our future profession is set up in such a way that if they are not able to sufficiently pass boards and other weed out methods, they will not be able to practice as physicians. To say that he is not qualified or did not 'prove' himself because he didnt take the mcat is absurd. Many med schools accept students without mcats-- while these are programs in which the students have to keep certain gpa's etc, the mcat and pre-med courses certainly are not litmus tests for becoming a doctor.

Our profession has safeguards, trust them, get over your own lack of confidence-- and stop blaming stories like these for your difficulty in getting into med school. If you want it enough, you will become a physician, its just a little harder (and significantly easier) for some than others. But hey, that's life-- I grew up in the inner city and attended a hs that did not have science courses after sophmore chemistry. Compare that to the experience most of you probably had with all sorts of ap courses (unfair right?). I didnt let that be an excuse (going to either Weill Cornell or Pitt this fall!!!) Point is: what matters is individual effort and what we as individuals can control. We can control our effort and how much time we put into accomplishing our goals. Leave all this other tomfoolery for the weak-willed... Good luck!

ps. Choosing to withdraw from UF because of this is foolish-- Florida needs doctors and the state allocates money to this institution because of this. What good would a mass exodus away from UF serve? Where's the logic?

Who are you and what are you talking about? Are you telling me that this guy who got in without the necessary qualifications and is considered "exceptional," would be qualified enough to be your doctor? 😕😕😕😡😡😡

I think this is tomfoolery, what you just wrote here. Unbelievable...

 

[135892]

...and to think my 32 MCAT didn't even get me an interview at UF. My dad graduated from UF undergrad (as did I), UF MD, and UF residency in Rad Onc. Maybe he should have just given Dean Kone a call instead of letting me try to get in (and eventually fail to do so) on my own merits..

Haha, I guess hindsight is 20/20. Hopefully you got in somewhere else though...