Buying your way into med school

[uni8685]

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Who are you and what are you talking about? Are you telling me that this guy who got in without the necessary qualifications and is considered "exceptional," would be qualified enough to be your doctor? 😕😕😕😡😡😡

I think this is tomfoolery, what you just wrote here. Unbelievable...

Look, before you reply to a post make sure you are able to understand and fully comprehend my argument. Any reasonable person, any logical, rational person, would be able to do so. To repeat: Pre-med requirements and the mcat are not a litmus test of becoming a competent physician. Do I agree that this situation is totally unfair and egregious on all accounts? Absolutely. That said, there is a system in place-- its an imperfect system that is malleable and will continue to be improved, nevertheless, it is our system and it is used to safeguard against individuals that are not qualified to be physicians. This system, contrary to what some of you naieve myopic individuals tend to believe is not orgo, physics, mcats, etc. Its the boards, its shelf exams, attending evaluations, continuing education etc. This starts in medical school. Thus gaining admission to med school does not equate to you absolutely becoming a physician. There's a lot more work to be done...

You asked me if I would want to have this guy as a physician. That is yet to be seen. If the man can score 240 on the boards and adequately/competently complete his degree requirements, then yes. Any rational human being would consider this man to be an eligible physician if he is able to do so. However, that is yet to be seen. What you are supposed to learn as an undergraduate student is that things in our world are not binary. Things aren't always absolute. Be a critical thinker and look past trifles when such items are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Things that are unfair happen everyday-- nevertheless, in medicine, there is a system in place to ensure that only those that have a certain level of competency are able to practice as professionals. This is my argument. Understand that--

Do I feel that people should withdraw applications from UF because of this? Heck no!! As long as UF is accredited (med school is perhaps the most rigoruous accredidation process-- giving credence to the fact that rankings are B.S.), students should love to study there. In any case, this is probably something that the accredidatoin board should look into, so this is also still yet to be seen. BUt the take away message here children, is to get over yourselves. Unfairness happens everyday. Instead of griping about it on a freaking message board, mobilize yourself, write a letter to a congressman or something. But do not cry and complain and say that the reason you're not getting into medical school is because other people have unfair advantages. Look at yourself and evaluate your own shortcomings-- and make improvements. This is how we better ourselves as students, adults, citizens, and future physicians. Good luck.

 

[deleted158872]

A student admitted to the University of Florida's College of Medicine by its dean, over the objections of the college's selection committee, had not taken a required admissions examination, according to committee members.

Who cares? God ! Some schools in the USA let high school students in WITHOUT regarding MCAT or GPA ! 😡

 

[D-Bone]

Who cares? God ! Some schools in the USA let high school students in WITHOUT regarding MCAT or GPA ! 😡

Name these schools you're referring to.

Anyways, here's an update from today's Gainesville Sun.

http://www.gainesvillesun.com/article/20080415/COLUMNISTS/804150324/1021/news05

Apparently, politicians and governors can serve as excellent references for medical school applicants. Who knew! And according to Senate President Ken Pruitt, Mr. Mendelsohn's moral character is impeccable, and he has a fervent committment to becoming a physician?!? Give me a break. If that was the case, he would have taken the damn MCAT and submitted his application on time. What are the odds Mr. Pruitt's never even met the kid?

 

[LizzyM]

gaining admission to med school does not equate to you absolutely becoming a physician. There's a lot more work to be done...

Of those who apply to medical school, only about 50% are admitted. Of those admitted, about 95% graduate. Attrition from medical school is so low that being admitted is almost a guarantee of becoming a physician.

It is because <50% of those who apply are given a chance to study medicine that the process of being admitted to medical school should be transparent and in accordance with the school's specified rules for applicants.

Do I feel that people should withdraw applications from UF because of this? Heck no!! As long as UF is accredited ....

How long will UF be accredited given this breach of the requirements set forth by the LCME?

 

[Iquitos]

This type of situation happens more often than you might think. I know a doctor who's dad bought his way into med school and residency. It's just one of the perks of have a wealthy family. These guys will end up graduating just like the rest of us, the only difference is that they will be debt free upon graduation.

 

[MossPoh]

The students father graduated from Northwestern Medical School. Legacy status got him into Northwestern. Not good test scores, not a good gpa, not even charisma. It seems he has been riding coat tails since he graduated highschool.

I think you overestimate affiliations between medical schools and undergrad stuff a bit. My sister graduated top of her class in computer science and top of her law school class at UF. My other sister graduated in top 5% of her class and does tons for the alumni association. I highly doubt that is why I was accepted there. If I get accepted to NYMC are you going to say it is because my dad went there? Legacy helps, but they aren't going to completely overlook inferior grades. Money can speak volumes, but we aren't in the 50s any more where it is all legacy all the time. My uncle contributed well over $600,000 dollars to his alma mater (a state school, albeit a fairly competitive one) and my cousin still did not get in. Why? He had ****ty grades. Trust me, if affiliations were all it took then I'd be golden in the state of Florida. As it is now, I'll be lucky for a single admission. None of us have that information, unless you have his application sitting in front of you right now and were on the committee. If he is an inferior student then all the money/legacy status in the world won't protect him from the boards, or lawsuits in the future.

 

[uni8685]

I totally agree with the comments above. This kid still has to get through medical school and the boards.

As for LizzyM's comments. Yes, thank you for adding the note that over 95% complete medical school. We all know this-- you're missing the basic premise: the profession has a filter for those that are not adequately competent--THE BOARDS-- Once again, I maintain, if he is able to sufficiently pass the boards, all graduation requirements, etc. The man should be a physician. Now if for some odd reason, the man is granted the MD degree without doing so and is able to practice medicine without taking the boards, then we have reason to be concerned. Since this is not the case, then stop crying. It happens all the time. Who knows, the guy may turn out to be an incredible physician... if so, could we then use a utilitarian argument to justify such an end in this case?

LizzyM, your last comment is legitimate and if you were responsible in your quote of me, you would have included the statement I made about UF's accredidation being called into question. Absolutely. I hinted at this earlier. The committee should look into this situation, as it does undermine the integrity of the medical education profession. Until something along those lines occur, we should all just calm down a bit and stop crying....

 

[LizzyM]

I totally agree with the comments above. This kid still has to get through medical school and the boards.

As for LizzyM's comments. Yes, thank you for adding the note that over 95% complete medical school. We all know this-- you're missing the basic premise: the profession has a filter for those that are not adequately competent--THE BOARDS-- Once again, I maintain, if he is able to sufficiently pass the boards, all graduation requirements, etc. The man should be a physician. Now if for some odd reason, the man is granted the MD degree without doing so and is able to practice medicine without taking the boards, then we have reason to be concerned. Since this is not the case, then stop crying. It happens all the time. Who knows, the guy may turn out to be an incredible physician... if so, could we then use a utilitarian argument to justify such an end in this case?

LizzyM, your last comment is legitimate and if you were responsible in your quote of me, you would have included the statement I made about UF's accredidation being called into question. Absolutely. I hinted at this earlier. The committee should look into this situation, as it does undermine the integrity of the medical education profession. Until something along those lines occur, we should all just calm down a bit and stop crying....

The Boards are not the filter that you think that they are. Granted, one needs to pass the licensing exam to practice medicine but there are other things that someone can do without a med license (write books for the lay public, appear on TV infomercials, run for congress - or president ) and the MD after the name gives credibility. With the MD the man is a physician. He may not acheive what is necessary to be a licensed physician but the medical degree can be awarded just the same.

I'm not in the applicant pool and I'm not a Florida resident who is shelling out tax dollars to educate UF students so I have nothing to cry about.

I suspect that the elected officials and perhaps even the UF President didn't have a clue about the medical admissions process. The word may have come from on high, "This is a good kid, nice family, coming from a good undergrad institution, I'd like to see him at UF" and as in a game of telephone, someone took that as a command to admit him against every rule in the book.

 

[wally47]

Look, before you reply to a post make sure you are able to understand and fully comprehend my argument. Any reasonable person, any logical, rational person, would be able to do so. To repeat: Pre-med requirements and the mcat are not a litmus test of becoming a competent physician. Do I agree that this situation is totally unfair and egregious on all accounts? Absolutely. That said, there is a system in place-- its an imperfect system that is malleable and will continue to be improved, nevertheless, it is our system and it is used to safeguard against individuals that are not qualified to be physicians. This system, contrary to what some of you naieve myopic individuals tend to believe is not orgo, physics, mcats, etc. Its the boards, its shelf exams, attending evaluations, continuing education etc. This starts in medical school. Thus gaining admission to med school does not equate to you absolutely becoming a physician. There's a lot more work to be done...

You asked me if I would want to have this guy as a physician. That is yet to be seen. If the man can score 240 on the boards and adequately/competently complete his degree requirements, then yes. Any rational human being would consider this man to be an eligible physician if he is able to do so. However, that is yet to be seen. What you are supposed to learn as an undergraduate student is that things in our world are not binary. Things aren't always absolute. Be a critical thinker and look past trifles when such items are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Things that are unfair happen everyday-- nevertheless, in medicine, there is a system in place to ensure that only those that have a certain level of competency are able to practice as professionals. This is my argument. Understand that--

Do I feel that people should withdraw applications from UF because of this? Heck no!! As long as UF is accredited (med school is perhaps the most rigoruous accredidation process-- giving credence to the fact that rankings are B.S.), students should love to study there. In any case, this is probably something that the accredidatoin board should look into, so this is also still yet to be seen. BUt the take away message here children, is to get over yourselves. Unfairness happens everyday. Instead of griping about it on a freaking message board, mobilize yourself, write a letter to a congressman or something. But do not cry and complain and say that the reason you're not getting into medical school is because other people have unfair advantages. Look at yourself and evaluate your own shortcomings-- and make improvements. This is how we better ourselves as students, adults, citizens, and future physicians. Good luck.

I should have done this a couple months ago, along with some large donations. If only, then I would have gotten in to all of the schools I applied to and I wouldn't have had to take the MCAT and fill out those stupid essays describing by fervent desire to succeed as a physician. 😎

If you have made it far enough to score high on the MCAT, ace most of your courses, volunteer, shadow, and for some, do research all at the same time then I doubt you have very many "shortcomings." Realize that we aren't a bunch of children here, we are highly ranked in most things we do and we worked darn hard to get there. Unlike this kid. Don't be patronizing! And yes I understand that life isn't fair, bad things happen to good people, and corruption is unavoidable, perhaps cronyism too. That's why they created equal opportunity, title 9 and all of the other legislative efforts to protect the ideal of fairness. That's also why they have selection committees!!!!!!!! Ergo the system has failed. speaking for many, we are writing in this thread, to voice our common disdain of the event, in other words, just to get it off of our chest. And you're crazy to think writing your congressmen, and mobilizing yourself will do anything.(what should we do, march with signs down archer rd.?) Press/word of mouth, aka this forum, is far more appropriate b/c of the anonymity. I doubt anyone is willing to risk the dean knowing who they are in a negative light, after all he may just overturn the committee(again) and make sure you don't get accepted.

On a final note, the rest of your points are valid, but like I said this thread is people voices their frustrated opinions about the recent event or other disheartening things Dean Kone has been associated with😡, it has also become a convenient location of updates.

 

[jem]

This reflect very, very badly on UF...and if I were choosing between UF and another school, it would certainly negatively impact my decision!

I know that at other, very reputable schools, people who are the children of the Dean have been rejected - and over MCAT score alone (I'm talking about someone with outstanding grades and a strong committment to service...). The fact is that most schools do actaully hesitate to compromise their standards in this way.

Shame on UF!

👎

 

[yaah]

Name these schools you're referring to.

Anyways, here's an update from today's Gainesville Sun.

http://www.gainesvillesun.com/article/20080415/COLUMNISTS/804150324/1021/news05

What a great article!

"impeccable morals, proven leadership and professional discipline, and a fervent commitment to succeeding as a physician."

Impeccable morals - not so much. Proven leadership? Well, can't comment on that one. Professional disclipline and a fervent commitment to succeeding: No MCAT? Not much of a commitment! Did he even go to class as an undergrad?

It is amazing how far people will go to justify things. I would be willing to bet that at least 2/3 of the people that UF rejected had these similar "impeccable" credentials and professional discipline. But they actually took the MCAT and applied!

 

[LizzyM]

$500 check to a candidate for governor ... not many applicants have that.

picture of said candidate taken at your dad's house with dad's arm around the candidate... even fewer have that.
http://www.flampac.org/news/053105.html

dad on the govenor's transition team... even fewer have that.

http://www.cristtransition.com/news/2006/12/06/crist-announces-citizen-review-group-team-leaders/

Obviously, this guy has the credentials to attend this state school.

 

[mdgator]

...and to think my 32 MCAT didn't even get me an interview at UF. My dad graduated from UF undergrad (as did I), UF MD, and UF residency in Rad Onc. Maybe he should have just given Dean Kone a call instead of letting me try to get in (and eventually fail to do so) on my own merits..

I feel your pain. 33 MCAT, 3.94 GPA, UF undergrad...no interview. I applied "late". (The kind of late that occurs before the deadline.) I guess I should have not applied, waited until a couple of months after the deadline, and then just called and asked for special treatment.

 

[justletmeinplz]

I feel your pain. 33 MCAT, 3.94 GPA, UF undergrad...no interview. I applied "late". (The kind of late that occurs before the deadline.) I guess I should have not applied, waited until a couple of months after the deadline, and then just called and asked for special treatment.

I can't really complain too much. I didn't commit myself to trying to get into med school until pretty late in the game. That combined with a few too many tailgates, nights in midtown, etc. took it's toll on my GPA...3.41. It doesn't bother me that I didn't get an interview. What bothers me is not getting an interview when this jackass gets to slip in the back door.

 

[Law2Doc]

What bothers me is not getting an interview when this jackass gets to slip in the back door.

Actually seems to me he is coming right in the front door, tipping the bouncer, and being led around the velvet ropes. The world works this way for some. No point dwelling on it.

 

[uni8685]

I should have done this a couple months ago, along with some large donations. If only, then I would have gotten in to all of the schools I applied to and I wouldn't have had to take the MCAT and fill out those stupid essays describing by fervent desire to succeed as a physician. 😎

If you have made it far enough to score high on the MCAT, ace most of your courses, volunteer, shadow, and for some, do research all at the same time then I doubt you have very many "shortcomings." Realize that we aren't a bunch of children here, we are highly ranked in most things we do and we worked darn hard to get there. Unlike this kid. Don't be patronizing! And yes I understand that life isn't fair, bad things happen to good people, and corruption is unavoidable, perhaps cronyism too. That's why they created equal opportunity, title 9 and all of the other legislative efforts to protect the ideal of fairness. That's also why they have selection committees!!!!!!!! Ergo the system has failed. speaking for many, we are writing in this thread, to voice our common disdain of the event, in other words, just to get it off of our chest. And your crazy to think writing your congressmen, and mobilizing yourself will do anything.(what should we do, march with signs down archer rd.?) Press/word of mouth, aka this forum, is far more appropriate b/c of the anonymity. I doubt anyone is willing to risk the dean knowing who they are in a negative light, after all he may just overturn the committee(again) and make sure you don't get accepted.

On a final note, the rest of your points are valid, but like I said this thread is people voices their frustrated opinions about the recent event or other disheartening things Dean Kone has been associated with😡, it has also become a convenient location of updates.

I absolutley agree with your contentions. And I do apologize if I have offended anyone with my previous comments. Its just that it seems to be the same people that gripe about things like this that extrapolate and believe that all minority students at top tier med schools are the products of affirmative action/lower standards. These are the same kids that will assume, that I as an underprivileged african-american applicant that went to a high school that did not have physics or any ap science courses, is somehow less qualified than my future classmates. In fact i have a higher gpa (from an Ivy) and mcat than the average matriculant at all top tier schools-- in addition to a number of the unique experiences that made me desirable to the schools in which I was accepted to. I take offense to such things-- oftentimes people blame their shortcomings (eg. not being accepted) on precisely that.

I do not profess to being better than any pre-med etc. What I can do is to promote positive thinking. Proactive thinking is not griping about some rich kid that got in because of his family-- its writing to your congressman (btw, this is a common cliche'-- i didnt mean it in the literal sense) its having conversations like these, but instead of griping about what has already happened-- discuss what the ramifications may be for other UF students and what we can do as future medical students to prevent our own institutions from doing something similar. That would be a more useful conversation. Not what's been going on for the last few pages.

 

[mdgator]

I can't really complain too much. I didn't commit myself to trying to get into med school until pretty late in the game. That combined with a few too many tailgates, nights in midtown, etc. took it's toll on my GPA...3.41. It doesn't bother me that I didn't get an interview. What bothers me is not getting an interview when this jackass gets to slip in the back door.

I know what you're saying, and I feel pretty much the same way. I know I didn't deserve to get in. I was inexcusably naive about the application process a few months ago, and as I result, I applied very late. I deserved to be rejected. That's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that I, an extremely qualified candidate, actually did meet all the requirements. I played by the rules, took the MCAT, submitted my apps before the deadline...The difference between myself and Mendelsohn (sp?), is that because I don't have connections, the rules apply to me. But b/c his father is buddy-buddy with people in high places, they don't apply to him. (Oh, and I guess another difference is the fact that unlike him, I've actually demonstrated that I'm qualified to be a medical student.) This guy didn't take my spot at UF...I know that. But, he did take someone's. Someone who I know worked just as hard to get there as I did. Someone else who actually did things the right way.

Anyway, off my soap box. I got into some schools that I'm really excited about, and I can't wait to get started.

 

[spazzz]

Actually seems to me he is coming right in the front door, tipping the bouncer, and being led around the velvet ropes. The world works this way for some. No point dwelling on it.

I guess too many people don't realize how the real world works eh? Life isn't fair.

 

[pride4jc727]

Look, before you reply to a post make sure you are able to understand and fully comprehend my argument. Any reasonable person, any logical, rational person, would be able to do so. To repeat: Pre-med requirements and the mcat are not a litmus test of becoming a competent physician. Do I agree that this situation is totally unfair and egregious on all accounts? Absolutely. That said, there is a system in place-- its an imperfect system that is malleable and will continue to be improved, nevertheless, it is our system and it is used to safeguard against individuals that are not qualified to be physicians. This system, contrary to what some of you naieve myopic individuals tend to believe is not orgo, physics, mcats, etc. Its the boards, its shelf exams, attending evaluations, continuing education etc. This starts in medical school. Thus gaining admission to med school does not equate to you absolutely becoming a physician. There's a lot more work to be done...

You asked me if I would want to have this guy as a physician. That is yet to be seen. If the man can score 240 on the boards and adequately/competently complete his degree requirements, then yes. Any rational human being would consider this man to be an eligible physician if he is able to do so. However, that is yet to be seen. What you are supposed to learn as an undergraduate student is that things in our world are not binary. Things aren't always absolute. Be a critical thinker and look past trifles when such items are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Things that are unfair happen everyday-- nevertheless, in medicine, there is a system in place to ensure that only those that have a certain level of competency are able to practice as professionals. This is my argument. Understand that--

Do I feel that people should withdraw applications from UF because of this? Heck no!! As long as UF is accredited (med school is perhaps the most rigoruous accredidation process-- giving credence to the fact that rankings are B.S.), students should love to study there. In any case, this is probably something that the accredidatoin board should look into, so this is also still yet to be seen. BUt the take away message here children, is to get over yourselves. Unfairness happens everyday. Instead of griping about it on a freaking message board, mobilize yourself, write a letter to a congressman or something. But do not cry and complain and say that the reason you're not getting into medical school is because other people have unfair advantages. Look at yourself and evaluate your own shortcomings-- and make improvements. This is how we better ourselves as students, adults, citizens, and future physicians. Good luck.

Thanks for your diatribe and for saying things you do not know about me. Plus, why don't you get involved and try to create a more perfect system. You seem to be the best critical thinker for the job. Enlighten us, since you seem to have the tools to save us!!!

 

[wally47]

To keep this thread somewhat productive and less whiny, here are some questions feel free to answer them.

1. What would you like the outcome of this situation to be?
2. What do you think will actually happen?



1. Kone fired, acceptance withdrawn, and Dr. Watson and the other Dr.(can't think of the name right now) return.

2. Nothing

 

[135892]

To keep this thread somewhat productive and less whiny, here are some questions feel free to answer them.

1. What would you like the outcome of this situation to be?
2. What do you think will actually happen?



1. Kone fired, acceptance withdrawn, and Dr. Watson and the other Dr.(can't think of the name right now) return.

2. Nothing

1) Machen (UF's president) and Kone gone
2) Kone will resign

I wonder what will happen to this Medelsohn guy though. Maybe he'll be too ashamed to even show up at UF, haha

 

[BrainBuff]

1) Machen (UF's president) and Kone gone
2) Kone will resign

I wonder what will happen to this Medelsohn guy though. Maybe he'll be too ashamed to even show up at UF, haha

Neither of those things will happen.

It will be soon forgotten.

 

[wally47]

1) Machen (UF's president) and Kone gone
2) Kone will resign

I wonder what will happen to this Medelsohn guy though. Maybe he'll be too ashamed to even show up at UF, haha

According to his facebook, he's a UF 12' Grad Student

 

[ufgrad00]

Yeah, looking at that email Kone sent, and all the news about this hurting his reputation, I get the feeling that he is not going to be here next year.

 

[wally47]

We all can only hope.

 

[uni8685]

Agreed

 

[uni8685]

Thanks for your diatribe and for saying things you do not know about me. Plus, why don't you get involved and try to create a more perfect system. You seem to be the best critical thinker for the job. Enlighten us, since you seem to have the tools to save us!!!

Look-- I never professed to being better than anyone. I made those comments because people were not sufficiently understanding my (a) counterargument to the common griping argument. Learn to not take things personally-- I never said anything to you directly. That said, 60% chance Kone is leaving in the coming year??????

 

[167649]

Look-- I never professed to being better than anyone. I made those comments because people were not sufficiently understanding my (a) counterargument to the common griping argument. Learn to not take things personally-- I never said anything to you directly. That said, 60% chance Kone is leaving in the coming year??????

I don't think it's that people are not understanding your arguments, it's just that they don't agree with you. And for some reason that surprises and maybe frustrates you so you say "Be a critical thinker," or "Any logical, reasonable person would realize this..." blah blah.

It's a forum, the purpose of such is to discuss and debate. Somebody here is always going to disagree with you. You made your point, we should all just get over this issue and stop crying. Thanks. But if you don't want to discuss the topic, or you think everyone else in here is just crying about a meaningless issue, you can just skip the thread and refrain from reading/posting. It's pretty simple, that's part of the beauty of SDN.

 

[sgglaze]

People, you all need to relax... Egregiously unfair circumstances like this happen all the time in the professional world. Our future profession is set up in such a way that if they are not able to sufficiently pass boards and other weed out methods, they will not be able to practice as physicians. To say that he is not qualified or did not 'prove' himself because he didnt take the mcat is absurd. Many med schools accept students without mcats-- while these are programs in which the students have to keep certain gpa's etc, the mcat and pre-med courses certainly are not litmus tests for becoming a doctor.

Our profession has safeguards, trust them, get over your own lack of confidence-- and stop blaming stories like these for your difficulty in getting into med school. If you want it enough, you will become a physician, its just a little harder (and significantly easier) for some than others. But hey, that's life-- I grew up in the inner city and attended a hs that did not have science courses after sophmore chemistry. Compare that to the experience most of you probably had with all sorts of ap courses (unfair right?). I didnt let that be an excuse (going to either Weill Cornell or Pitt this fall!!!) Point is: what matters is individual effort and what we as individuals can control. We can control our effort and how much time we put into accomplishing our goals. Leave all this other tomfoolery for the weak-willed... Good luck!

ps. Choosing to withdraw from UF because of this is foolish-- Florida needs doctors and the state allocates money to this institution because of this. What good would a mass exodus away from UF serve? Where's the logic?

See, the problem with this line of thought is that it amounts to no more than passive acceptance. Congratulations on succeeding from difficult circumstances, but just because a student like you worked to overcome a blatant disadvantage (and not having high school science courses is a tremendous disadvantage) does that mean we should not work to improve the science curriculum at your high school?

Your mentality is slavish. The fact that some people succeed in spite of blatant oppression is not an excuse to sit back and do nothing while it happens.

From this story, it appears that this Dean grossly violated the standards of integrity and accountability his post requires. That's a problem, saying "Deal with it" is not a solution.

 

[uni8685]

See, the problem with this line of thought is that it amounts to no more than passive acceptance. Congratulations on succeeding from difficult circumstances, but just because a student like you worked to overcome a blatant disadvantage (and not having high school science courses is a tremendous disadvantage) does that mean we should not work to improve the science curriculum at your high school?

Your mentality is slavish. The fact that some people succeed in spite of blatant oppression is not an excuse to sit back and do nothing while it happens.

From this story, it appears that this Dean grossly violated the standards of integrity and accountability his post requires. That's a problem, saying "Deal with it" is not a solution.

Goodness, this brings me back to one of my original points people. Read all posts, not just one that is out of context. If you did so you would have seen the post where I proposed some things we could have been talking about. Calling my mentality slavish is no better than my blunder of calling people that misinterpret and misrepresent my reasoning illogical.

Rooter-- you're in the same boat. That said, let's get out of the muck and have a conversation. Read Wally47's questions... in addition.

What can we as future med students do to make sure these things don't happen at our schools. Are there oversight committees for this?

 

[LizzyM]

What can we as future med students do to make sure these things don't happen at our schools. Are there oversight committees for this?

Future medical students can do little but taxpayers, voters and members of the academic community can do plenty.

Sunshine is the best disinfectant against political corruption. I applaud the faculty members who brought this travesty to the attention of the media.

We can only hope that the next election puts pressure on the governor to root out cronyism in his administration or sees the election of a new governor.

Kone, IMHO, is history after that wacky e-mail he sent late on a Friday night. I can't see anything other than his departure from UF as the outcome of this debacle.

 

[uni8685]

Future medical students can do little but taxpayers, voters and members of the academic community can do plenty.

Sunshine is the best disinfectant against political corruption. I applaud the faculty members who brought this travesty to the attention of the media.

We can only hope that the next election puts pressure on the governor to root out cronyism in his administration or sees the election of a new governor.

Kone, IMHO, is history after that wacky e-mail he sent late on a Friday night. I can't see anything other than his departure from UF as the outcome of this debacle.

I saw someone post something about this earlier... may UF's accredidation be called into question as a result of this??

 

[LizzyM]

I saw someone post something about this earlier... may UF's accredidation be called into question as a result of this??

The LCME (accrediting body for med schools) reviews schools and grants accreditation. UF is up for re-review in 2014-15.

In the meantime, one can file a complaint with the LCME:

http://www.lcme.org/procedur.htm#Complaints

Complaints to the LCME

Policies and procedures for handling complaints to the LCME about institutional or program quality are given in the LCME's Rules of Procedure. Any person concerned about the quality of an undergraduate medical education program accredited by the LCME may contact the Secretariat to discuss lodging a complaint. Only those complaints will be investigated that, if substantiated, may constitute noncompliance with accreditation standards. The LCME will not intervene on behalf of an individual complainant regarding, for example, matters of admission, appointment, promotion, or dismissal of faculty or students. The LCME Secretariat should be contacted for information about guidelines and procedures.

Complaints about the LCME itself, its practices and standards, or the conduct of surveys should be forwarded to the Secretariat.

 

[jad2121]

here guys:

http://www.gainesvillesun.com/article/20080410/NEWS/804100319/1007/NEWS

Its the way of the world. Stop complaining and start studying hard so you can get rich and buy your son into a great school. Thats the American dream after all.

 

[D-Bone]

The LCME (accrediting body for med schools) reviews schools and grants accreditation. UF is up for re-review in 2014-15.

In the meantime, one can file a complaint with the LCME:

http://www.lcme.org/procedur.htm#Complaints

Complaints to the LCME

Policies and procedures for handling complaints to the LCME about institutional or program quality are given in the LCME's Rules of Procedure. Any person concerned about the quality of an undergraduate medical education program accredited by the LCME may contact the Secretariat to discuss lodging a complaint. Only those complaints will be investigated that, if substantiated, may constitute noncompliance with accreditation standards. The LCME will not intervene on behalf of an individual complainant regarding, for example, matters of admission, appointment, promotion, or dismissal of faculty or students. The LCME Secretariat should be contacted for information about guidelines and procedures.

Complaints about the LCME itself, its practices and standards, or the conduct of surveys should be forwarded to the Secretariat.

My understanding is the LCME is already aware of things. Article in today's Alligator indicates a committee has been established to look into the admissions process in general at UF. They plan to withhold looking specifically at the Mendelsohn case until they're comfortable with how things are supposed to be done in admissions.

 

[LizzyM]

My understanding is the LCME is already aware of things. Article in today's Alligator indicates a committee has been established to look into the admissions process in general at UF. They plan to withhold looking specifically at the Mendelsohn case until they're comfortable with how things are supposed to be done in admissions.

The Alligator article says that a commitee of UF faculty has been formed to look into admissions. The LCME is an independent body, sponsored by AAMC and the AMA. You can file a complaint even if others have filed complaints. The volume of mail does help to determine the magnitude of the problem in the eyes of the public.

 

[Dendrite]

My understanding is the LCME is already aware of things. Article in today's Alligator indicates a committee has been established to look into the admissions process in general at UF. They plan to withhold looking specifically at the Mendelsohn case until they're comfortable with how things are supposed to be done in admissions.

Yes, but that committee is independent of the LCME. I believe it is run by the Faculty Senate.

 

[D-Bone]

Yes, but that committee is independent of the LCME. I believe it is run by the Faculty Senate.

Yes, you're correct. I didn't mean to imply an LCME committee will investigate things. An inhouse faculty committee will look into things. As far as any LCME action, I'm not aware of anything yet other than they're aware of the situation.

 

[justletmeinplz]

File a complaint with the LCME? What for? Why penalize all the students there for what appears to be an isolated event involving a poor decision by the dean? I fail to see how letting in an under-qualified student affects the quality of education at the university. It's a safe bet that 99% of the class has the credentials to be there. I don't like what happened any more than anyone else, but many of y'all are starting to act as though the entire faculty became incompetent upon Mendelsohn's admission. Admissions issues aside, the fact remains that UF is a very good med school. So punish the dean, yes, but all this talk of filing complaints sounds a bit ridiculous.

 

[D-Bone]

File a complaint with the LCME? What for? Why penalize all the students there for what appears to be an isolated event involving a poor decision by the dean? I fail to see how letting in an under-qualified student affects the quality of education at the university. It's a safe bet that 99% of the class has the credentials to be there. I don't like what happened any more than anyone else, but many of y'all are starting to act as though the entire faculty became incompetent upon Mendelsohn's admission. Admissions issues aside, the fact remains that UF is a very good med school. So punish the dean, yes, but all this talk of filing complaints sounds a bit ridiculous.

I don't think anyone on this forum said the faculty were incompetent. The impression I'm getting from the rants here (including mine) is it's indeed an isolated event, centered on an ill decision by the dean. UF is certainly an excellent program, hence, why people such as myself feel so strongly about one less seat to compete for due to Mendelsohn's admission.

Regarding the LCME, they're already aware of things, so I don't think we need to be bothering them.

 

[Dendrite]

File a complaint with the LCME? What for? Why penalize all the students there for what appears to be an isolated event involving a poor decision by the dean? I fail to see how letting in an under-qualified student affects the quality of education at the university. It's a safe bet that 99% of the class has the credentials to be there. I don't like what happened any more than anyone else, but many of y'all are starting to act as though the entire faculty became incompetent upon Mendelsohn's admission. Admissions issues aside, the fact remains that UF is a very good med school. So punish the dean, yes, but all this talk of filing complaints sounds a bit ridiculous.

I agree. The action that took place wasn't the fault of the faculty. In fact, they were the ones that stood up against the injustice. In the bottom line, UF is still a fantastic institution with tremendous opportunities.

 

[GoGators]

IMO UF overall has done nothing wrong although Kone might have. The committee has done its job by opposing the dean and even went behind his back to expose the case and raise their concerns. This said, it seems like the system of the admission process works. I don't think extreme cases such as this happen as often as people may think because you can already see the consequences. Furthermore, I don't think that Mendelsohn will even show up at UF when med school starts.

 

[LizzyM]

By his action, the Dean may have acted in a manner contrary to the published admission procedures and standards set up by UF and submitted by UF when it was last reviewed by LCME. If so, the Dean, by his action, has placed the medical school's accreitation status in jeapardy. Furthermore, LCME standards state:

MS-3. The faculty of each school must develop criteria and procedures for the selection of students that are readily available to potential applicants and to their collegiate advisors.

MS-4. The final responsibility for selecting students to be admitted for medical study must reside with a duly constituted faculty committee.

Persons or groups external to the medical school may assist in the evaluation of applicants but should not have decision-making authority.

MS-7. The selection of individual students must not be influenced by any political or financial factors.


Pressure from outside influences can often be shunted aside by stating, "I see your point but to do as you ask could threaten our accreditation as a medical school".

As it stands, Kone's actions and the actions of the governor and univeristy president may have worked in concert to hurt UF. I wouldn't expect the school to lose accreditation but it could wind up with provisional accreditatoin and review sooner than 2014 (review is a major timesink for the administration and faculty). Of course, provisional accreditation is always a scary thing for prospective students and the repercussions last long after the provisional accreditation is removed.

 

[Chargers]

I think all this bad publicity just reminds them people to keep things more discrete. They are not gonna change. They will learn this lesson for sure. They will learn that in order to buy your way into med school, you gotta take the mcat (read: it doesn't matter how low a score you got ) and fill out the application (read: let your butler do it when he's done making you a caviar sandwich for lunch).
This kind of thing has been going on since the dawn of time.👎

 

[167649]

Future medical students can do little but taxpayers, voters and members of the academic community can do plenty.
Sunshine is the best disinfectant against political corruption. I applaud the faculty members who brought this travesty to the attention of the media.
We can only hope that the next election puts pressure on the governor to root out cronyism in his administration or sees the election of a new governor.
Kone, IMHO, is history after that wacky e-mail he sent late on a Friday night. I can't see anything other than his departure from UF as the outcome of this debacle.

I hope you're right Lizzy, but I don't know if this is something voters are going to be able to impact much. Most of the public doesn't understand how admissions works for medical school, how structured, competitive, and important it is for not only the school but for the profession.

I doubt this will simply disappear within the academic community, but I don't think it is something the voting public will see as a big political issue when choosing a governor.

My understanding is the LCME is already aware of things. Article in today's Alligator indicates a committee has been established to look into the admissions process in general at UF. They plan to withhold looking specifically at the Mendelsohn case until they're comfortable with how things are supposed to be done in admissions.

It was an internal faculty committee, not one formed by the LCME. And Kone and his president have already ignored/over-ruled the recommendations set forth by one committee (admissions). I am sure it will put pressure on the situation, but I'm not sure the faculty senate or committee itself is going to be able to do something about the admissions problem directly.

"The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away."

Anyone else see the resemblance?

 

[D-Bone]

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20080418/NEWS/804180338/1002/NEWS

 

[wally47]

I am so amused by this dude. He tries the whole time not to defend Kone, but towards the end he adds that what Kone did was innovative and groundbreaking. What BS. He is trying to spin the situation for the lay public. After all they don't know much about the MCAT and AMCAS, so to them Kone is now a hero for "thinking outside the box." And even still Machem tries to assure the reporter that Kone overreacted in his email. Overreacted!!!! are you kidding me, his comments were so derogatory and demeaning towards the University I can't see how the "President" would excuse them, unless they are connected somehow.

 

[FSAP]

Now I know why my not so smart friend is so sure she will get into medical school. It's not just what you know, but whom you know.

 

[167649]

I am so amused by this dude. He tries the whole time not to defend Kone, but towards the end he adds that what Kone did was innovative and groundbreaking. What BS. He is trying to spin the situation for the lay public. After all they don't know much about the MCAT and AMCAS, so to them Kone is now a hero for "thinking outside the box." And even still Machem tries to assure the reporter that Kone overreacted in his email. Overreacted!!!! are you kidding me, his comments were so derogatory and demeaning towards the University I can't see how the "President" would excuse them, unless they are connected somehow.

It's ridiculous isn't it. What a joke this whole thing is.

 

[oldpro]

Thousands of desperate premeds, most of whom would sell their grandmothers into slavery to get accepted to medical school, that's who.

I don't predict a mass walkout from the school.

Amen, One thing missed here though

this student does not have a undergrad degree or a MCAT

They are not qualified. 😱

They take the place of a Qualified student (Who should sue )