Buying your way into med school

Get Your Med School Admissions Questions Answered!
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Members don't see this ad.
Kthanksbye said:
The admissions process as it exists it probably the most messed up of any admissions process to any degree program in the US, and it probably rivals many abroad as well. Students are encouraged to embellish their accomplishments and pad their applications with trivial activities, which are then valued above real measures of accomplishment. Admissions committees kid themselves that they can see through the dishonesty. What this kid did is an extreme of what is going on every day. The more honest and forthcoming applicants have a harder time gaining acceptance simply because they do not play the game enough (which is probably a desirable trait for a physician). Many of you may think that I have a chip on my shoulder, but I believe this process fails the vast majority of qualified applicants and essentially ends up being a lottery system. To be told that my grades are fine, my MCAT is fine, I'm a great overall candidate but I have not done enough "community service" or that my 2+ years of ER volunteering is not adequate clinical experience leaves a sour taste. It sounds like a reach. Is this how we choose our physicians? Will working in a soup kitchen make you a better doctor? Or, as was suggested to me, taking a year off to become a phlebotomist or ER tech? In light of the failings of the current process, it is inevitable that some people will opt for such a "magic ticket" into med school. Most are just not as obviously onerous as the OPs example, but are just as successful at circumventing this insane process.
Click to expand...

This post brought a tear to my eye. I agree wholeheartedly.
 
Kthanksbye said:
I believe this process fails the vast majority of qualified applicants
Click to expand...

About 39,000 applicants apply through AMCAS. Of those, let's assume that 80% are qualified. That brings us to 31,200 qualified applicants.

About 17,000 (43%) of all applicants to allopathic schools matriculate at one of those schools. So 17,000 of 31,200 means that the majority (54%) of qualified applicants matriculate at an allopathic school.

So How does the process fail the vast majority of qualified applicants?

We have far too many qualified applicants for the seats available. It takes tremendous effort (much of it by faculty volunteers) to choose an incoming class. It is tremendously frustrating to adcom members and applicants to have the system subverted by political patronage.
 
Kthanksbye said:
To be told that my grades are fine, my MCAT is fine, I'm a great overall candidate but I have not done enough "community service" or that my 2+ years of ER volunteering is not adequate clinical experience leaves a sour taste. It sounds like a reach. Is this how we choose our physicians? Will working in a soup kitchen make you a better doctor? Or, as was suggested to me, taking a year off to become a phlebotomist or ER tech? In light of the failings of the current process, it is inevitable that some people will opt for such a "magic ticket" into med school. Most are just not as obviously onerous as the OPs example, but are just as successful at circumventing this insane process.
Click to expand...

I agree that this whole process is screwed up beyond belief. What happened to just having a good mcat/gpa, volunteering , shadowing, and good LORS? Nowadays, every premed and their mother becomes an EMT and completes the obligatory 4-8 week medical mission trip in Africa/India/S.america. Just jumping through the hoops I guess.
 
LizzyM said:
About 39,000 applicants apply through AMCAS. Of those, let's assume that 80% are qualified. That brings us to 31,200 qualified applicants.

About 17,000 (43%) of all applicants to allopathic schools matriculate at one of those schools. So 17,000 of 31,200 means that the majority (54%) of qualified applicants matriculate at an allopathic school.

So How does the process fail the vast majority of qualified applicants?

We have far too many qualified applicants for the seats available. It takes tremendous effort (much of it by faculty volunteers) to choose an incoming class. It is tremendously frustrating to adcom members and applicants to have the system subverted by political patronage.
Click to expand...

/grabs popcorn

This is getting gooooood.
 
Does anyone know who can fire the Dean of a medical school? Is it just the president of the university? If so that sucks.
 
wally47 said:
That first one was funny. Dr. Watson is 5' nothin and about 140lbs. Not sure how tall Kone is but I know he works out(swimming) a lot.
Click to expand...


How do you know Dr. Kone's a swimmer? Is it because he and Ben swam for the same high school?
 
I can't believe there are people in this forum defending UF's actions.
No, there should be no excuse for Dean Kone's actions. Just because it happened now and probably happened before doesn't mean it SHOULD happen.
What is and what ought to be are not the same thing, and we should do our best to protect the integrity of the process.
And really, this process has so many qualified applicants we can pick people who are both brilliant AND have people skills. A lot of the people who failed to make it in medschool makes it sound as if those who got into med school can't speak to real people, and from my experience that couldn't be further from the truth.

I don't care what kind of people skills and what kind of connections Ben has. He did not follow the proper application process, he was evaluated by a committee and rejected. No matter how pleasant of a person he is, him being in medical school symbolizes the corruption that surrounds all of us, and we should not be okay with it.
 
LizzyM said:
About 39,000 applicants apply through AMCAS. Of those, let's assume that 80% are qualified. That brings us to 31,200 qualified applicants.


So How does the process fail the vast majority of qualified applicants?

We have far too many qualified applicants for the seats available. It takes tremendous effort (much of it by faculty volunteers) to choose an incoming class. It is tremendously frustrating to adcom members and applicants to have the system subverted by political patronage.
Click to expand...

Because there are so many more applicants than seats, it becomes a pseudo-lottery. The deciding factors are intangibles that have more to do with how successfully the applicant spins his experiences than the experiences themselves...and...well....luck.

Also, what is not factored into these figures is the number of well qualified applicants who go into other fields because the process is so insane they prefer to take a different route, at a time when there is a physician shortage. I know...who cares?...right? But this impacts the entire field. Talk with other professionals, scientists, etc. They are often very aware of how messed up this system is. Some of them may have made a decision themselves not to pursue medicine for these reasons. It would be odd to create a system to expressly discourage people from applying, but that is the effect of the current system.

What remains unsaid is the reason why there are so few seats. This is a story of bureaucratic bungling going back 40 years, and the MD schools have yet to address it properly. What little they are doing doesn't even keep up with the current growth in demand (both of society for more doctors and students for more seats) The DO schools are now stepping up to the problem and filling in the gaps (largely by creating more seats and streamlining the admissions process).

I understand that there must be admission committee members who want to do their best to pick the best people. And that they are underpaid and doing a job that most would rather avoid. But they are also constrained by the faults of this system that has evolved with what seems to be little reflection into the best way to choose future doctors. What we have is a hodgepodge of traditions with pseudo fixes tacked on that exacerbate rather than help the situation. I also understand that there is little hope for reform.

So this boils down to an anonymous venting of three years of frustration trying to make sense of this mess. Take it for what you will.
 
Kthanksbye said:
The admissions process as it exists it probably the most messed up of any admissions process to any degree program in the US, and it probably rivals many abroad as well. Students are encouraged to embellish their accomplishments and pad their applications with trivial activities, which are then valued above real measures of accomplishment. Admissions committees kid themselves that they can see through the dishonesty. What this kid did is an extreme of what is going on every day. The more honest and forthcoming applicants have a harder time gaining acceptance simply because they do not play the game enough (which is probably a desirable trait for a physician). Many of you may think that I have a chip on my shoulder, but I believe this process fails the vast majority of qualified applicants and essentially ends up being a lottery system. To be told that my grades are fine, my MCAT is fine, I'm a great overall candidate but I have not done enough "community service" or that my 2+ years of ER volunteering is not adequate clinical experience leaves a sour taste. It sounds like a reach. Is this how we choose our physicians? Will working in a soup kitchen make you a better doctor? Or, as was suggested to me, taking a year off to become a phlebotomist or ER tech? In light of the failings of the current process, it is inevitable that some people will opt for such a "magic ticket" into med school. Most are just not as obviously onerous as the OPs example, but are just as successful at circumventing this insane process.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree with everything you've said. The med school admissions process is complete and utter :bullcrap:. Especially all the bs about community service, volunteering, serving the underserved and the like. I mean, there are people who are truly passionate about those things, and I don't mean to disrespect their passion, god bless them. But I mean come on, how many kids would still be volunteering in the ER, or feeding the homeless if all of a sudden med schools stopped caring about those things.

I mean, get real people, the baby boomer generation of physicians and the one after that got into med school, when med schools almost exclusively cared about your grades and scores, and who is to say they didn't turn out to be great physicians. Who is to say that now, with all the additional bs requirements for med school besides the academics, we are making better doctors than they used to 20,30,50 years ago.
 
matayo said:
He'll probably flunk out, and hey, he can't even touch patients for another six years. So he's going to spend about 10 years on a program that I could finish in six. You can justify decisions like that all you want - but keep in mind schools like UC and UF are keeping out highly qualified applicants while accepting applicants of dubious quality for their own personal gain. Where's the equality in that?
Click to expand...
It seems pretty likely that the aforementioned student is actually more highly qualified than you, which is why he was accepted. You simply sound bitter about it now, and you're assuming that a student who finished grade school, middle school, high school and college by age TWELVE will take ten years to finish the next two? 🙄
 
frikarika said:
I agree that this whole process is screwed up beyond belief. What happened to just having a good mcat/gpa, volunteering , shadowing, and good LORS? Nowadays, every premed and their mother becomes an EMT and completes the obligatory 4-8 week medical mission trip in Africa/India/S.america. Just jumping through the hoops I guess.
Click to expand...
😱:laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
frikarika said:
I agree that this whole process is screwed up beyond belief. What happened to just having a good mcat/gpa, volunteering , shadowing, and good LORS? Nowadays, every premed and their mother becomes an EMT and completes the obligatory 4-8 week medical mission trip in Africa/India/S.america. Just jumping through the hoops I guess.
Click to expand...
Give me a break. I'd like just a shred of evidence that getting an EMT license and vacationing in Africa actually acquires more acceptances than someone with a high GPA and MCAT score. Are you anywhere near being on an actual admissions committee?

SDN has jaded some of you beyond belief. I applied to be an EMT a year before I found SDN, and I didn't know a single other pre-med who had done it until after I had a job working for an ambulance company (which didn't have a single pre-med on its payroll, out of >100 employees). I also only knew one person in undergrad who went overseas for some kind of medical mission, and he was actually there for six months or more.
 
Kthanksbye said:
Because there are more applicants than seats, it becomes a pseudo-lottery. The deciding factors are intangibles that have more to do with how successfully the applicant spins his experiences than the experiences themselves...and...well....luck.
Click to expand...
Average 2007 MCAT: 25.1
Average applicant's 2007 MCAT: 27.8
Average matriculant's 2007 MCAT: 30.8

So they just take the intangibles into account and not hard numbers, huh? Some of what you call "spinning the experience" is actually a lot more than just spin. It's understanding what you have gotten out of an experience and effectively conveying that impression.
 
TheProwler said:
Average 2007 MCAT: 25.1
Average applicant's 2007 MCAT: 27.8
Average matriculant's 2007 MCAT: 30.8

So they just take the intangibles into account and not hard numbers, huh? Some of what you call "spinning the experience" is actually a lot more than just spin. It's understanding what you have gotten out of an experience and effectively conveying that impression.
Click to expand...

Good observation Prowler! Bringing SDN back to the NO Spin Zone.
 
UFMed said:
Good observation Prowler! Bringing SDN back to the NO Spin Zone.
Click to expand...

I think people are arguing about using resume and unique activities to distinguish between people with the same or similar numbers--not saying that people with 40s and 4.0s will not get into med school because of people with 20s who spent their lives on perpetual mission trips. It sounds a bit like Prowler is attacking a straw man.
 
scarletgirl777 said:
I think people are arguing about using resume and unique activities to distinguish between people with the same or similar numbers--not saying that people with 40s and 4.0s will not get into med school because of people with 20s who spent their lives on perpetual mission trips. It sounds a bit like Prowler is attacking a straw man.
Click to expand...

No, Prowler is simply pointing out that admission into medical school is not a simple coin toss, and he is refuting the opinion that the only applicants being turned away are the ones who haven't performed community service. He is showing that the average applicant has a lower MCAT score versus the average matriculant- suggesting that admissions into medical school is based on objective criteria.

Furthermore, if two applicants do have similar stats, why is it wrong to take into account factors outside the realm of academic performance (like research and volunteering or the interview and personal statement)? If you didn't, then the admissions would really have to resort to a coin toss.
 
As if the numbers aren't themselves arbitrary? I don't think someone with a 4.0 GPA and a 40 MCAT is necessarily a better candidate than someone with a 3.5 and a 30.

Both are likely competent in the sciences. But while the 40-MCAT person may have spent four months studying hardcore to get a few more questions right on a test, the 30-MCAT person may have actually contributed to society.

And as for the 4.0 GPA? Easily obtainable by taking zero academic risk and 12 credits per semester.

Do some people have great grades, high MCAT scores, and load up on tough schedules while contributing to society? Yeah, some people. And if that have a personality to go with it, and apply to a broad spectrum of schools, then they'll get in somewhere.

Notice I didn't use the word "activities." There's a reason for that. Trivial stuff really does come across as trivial. Genuine compassion and a desire to do good is, believe it or not, important to being a physician. If you're only proficient in the sciences then just get a PhD.
 
gplex86 said:
As if the numbers aren't themselves arbitrary? I don't think someone with a 4.0 GPA and a 40 MCAT is necessarily a better candidate than someone with a 3.5 and a 30.

Both are likely competent in the sciences. But while the 40-MCAT person may have spent four months studying hardcore to get a few more questions right on a test, the 30-MCAT person may have actually contributed to society.

And as for the 4.0 GPA? Easily obtainable by taking zero academic risk and 12 credits per semester.
Click to expand...
🙄🙄 I don't even know how many assumptions and gross generalizations there are in your post. That person with the 30 on the MCAT might have studied longer than the guy with the 40, and there is NOTHING to correlate who contributed more to society. If you have anything to refute that beyond anecdotes and conjecture, I'd love to hear it.

And I would readily say that a 4.0/40 is much more competent in the sciences than a 3.5/30. Is the 3.5/30 competent ENOUGH? Yes, probably. A ten point difference is attributable to a lot more than "a few more questions right on a test."
 
TheProwler said:
🙄🙄 I don't even know how many assumptions and gross generalizations there are in your post. That person with the 30 on the MCAT might have studied longer than the guy with the 40, and there is NOTHING to correlate who contributed more to society. If you have anything to refute that beyond anecdotes and conjecture, I'd love to hear it.

And I would readily say that a 4.0/40 is much more competent in the sciences than a 3.5/30. Is the 3.5/30 competent ENOUGH? Yes, probably. A ten point difference is attributable to a lot more than "a few more questions right on a test."
Click to expand...

I think you're making the assumptions. Like I said, someone with great scores may have done great things with their time. A candidate like that with a decent personality is certain to get into med school. The problem is with people who focus only on their numbers.


Rather, I'm saying what you CANNOT reasonably assume since both are good scores representing the top 20% of test takers. The person who got a 40 could have focused more on BASIC sciences while the person who got a 30 went on to more advanced (but less MCAT pertinent) studies. That's what the rest of the application is for.

Okay, so the 40 MCAT guy has a 4.0 GPA. Great! That helps confirm his science aptitude. Now we need to know what classes got him the 4.0. Have you ever heard of the term "grade *****?" That's someone who takes easy classes, or even retakes them, just to boost numbers. It happens.

Believe it or not, there is a REASON why people with great numbers and scores don't get into med school. If the correlations you're talking about were so perfect, admissions would be done by a computer program. Instead, a range of numbers helps narrow the field, and then HUMAN BEINGS have to judge what the numbers mean.

Of course MCAT score doesn't correlate with who contributed more! But people with marginal scores usually know it. It's people with high scores who do all the whining when they don't get in anywhere.
 
D-Bone said:
How do you know Dr. Kone's a swimmer? Is it because he and Ben swam for the same high school?
Click to expand...

It was actually brought up in one of my interviews some how.
 
TheProwler said:
🙄🙄 I don't even know how many assumptions and gross generalizations there are in your post. That person with the 30 on the MCAT might have studied longer than the guy with the 40, and there is NOTHING to correlate who contributed more to society. If you have anything to refute that beyond anecdotes and conjecture, I'd love to hear it.

And I would readily say that a 4.0/40 is much more competent in the sciences than a 3.5/30. Is the 3.5/30 competent ENOUGH? Yes, probably. A ten point difference is attributable to a lot more than "a few more questions right on a test."
Click to expand...

I think all we need to settle this debate is some data that shows the correlation between MCAT/GPA and the USMLE.
 
UFMed said:
Good observation Prowler! Bringing SDN back to the NO Spin Zone.
Click to expand...

So true, if I could do it all over again I would keep a journal during all of my activities so that I could write down some of my experiences. Trying to remember things that happened freshmen and sophomore year was tuff. Especially since they expect for you to be able to talk about every single thing you've done.
 
This is not a MCAT/GPA debate. Nuff said.


I know of one medical student who was in a sorority in college. Her sorority did lots of humanitarian stuff. She just cut and pasted it all into her AMCAS. She had no part in the actual activities. Guess what, she got in. Apparently adcoms can't really tell the difference.

This is not buying your way into medical school, but it is significantly less honest than leaving that EC item blank. But should you leave it blank under these circumstances, when you are expected to have done all that stuff? Absolutely not. She's probably a throughly decent person and will make a good doctor. And she knew how to game the system to her advantage. I am sure it happens all the time. Perhaps these are the skills pre-meds should be developing. Anyway, whether they "should" or not...they quite obviously are, and are rewarded for it. The person who leaves it blank will be filling it in as she did the next application cycle...
 
Kthanksbye said:
The admissions process as it exists it probably the most messed up of any admissions process to any degree program in the US, and it probably rivals many abroad as well. Students are encouraged to embellish their accomplishments and pad their applications with trivial activities, which are then valued above real measures of accomplishment. Admissions committees kid themselves that they can see through the dishonesty. What this kid did is an extreme of what is going on every day. The more honest and forthcoming applicants have a harder time gaining acceptance simply because they do not play the game enough (which is probably a desirable trait for a physician). Many of you may think that I have a chip on my shoulder, but I believe this process fails the vast majority of qualified applicants and essentially ends up being a lottery system. To be told that my grades are fine, my MCAT is fine, I'm a great overall candidate but I have not done enough "community service" or that my 2+ years of ER volunteering is not adequate clinical experience leaves a sour taste. It sounds like a reach. Is this how we choose our physicians? Will working in a soup kitchen make you a better doctor? Or, as was suggested to me, taking a year off to become a phlebotomist or ER tech? In light of the failings of the current process, it is inevitable that some people will opt for such a "magic ticket" into med school. Most are just not as obviously onerous as the OPs example, but are just as successful at circumventing this insane process.
Click to expand...

If your applying to med-school I'm going to assume that your of reasonable intelligence, so i'll say this: if you think the admissions process is a game that's played then learn to play it, and play it well...😎
 
shmrshines said:
If your applying to med-school I'm going to assume that your of reasonable intelligence, so i'll say this: if you think the admissions process is a game that's played then learn to play it, and play it well...😎
Click to expand...

Naturally.

The question then becomes, "where is the line drawn?"

Is the OPs example still "playing the game."

Or embellishing ECs...

Or making up ECs...

Writing your own LORs...

Adding hours to your volunteering....

It's a very slippery slop, and most applicants, by the nature of this process, have slid down quite a ways.
 
Lying on your application is not "playing the game" (as in the examples above). Using political influence to circumvent the entire process (late application, no MCAT, no AMCAS from a traditional applicant) is not "playing the game".

Playing the game means knowing how to put the best spin on what you legitimately have, putting your best foot forward and avoiding "padding". As someone mentioned, it is a good idea to keep a log from the start of freshman year so that you can accurately describe activities and provide examples in your PS. Playing the game means submitting early, applying broadly, and treating everyone respectfully (I've seen applications get spiked because the applicant treated the low level office staff badly on interview day).

Learn the requirements for admission and work to have them on the application legitimately. Know the school's preferences (OOS, primary care/rural, research) and apply where you are a good fit.
 
Kthanksbye said:
This is not a MCAT/GPA debate. Nuff said.


I know of one medical student who was in a sorority in college. Her sorority did lots of humanitarian stuff. She just cut and pasted it all into her AMCAS. She had no part in the actual activities. Guess what, she got in. Apparently adcoms can't really tell the difference.

This is not buying your way into medical school, but it is significantly less honest than leaving that EC item blank. But should you leave it blank under these circumstances, when you are expected to have done all that stuff? Absolutely not. She's probably a throughly decent person and will make a good doctor. And she knew how to game the system to her advantage. I am sure it happens all the time. Perhaps these are the skills pre-meds should be developing. Anyway, whether they "should" or not...they quite obviously are, and are rewarded for it. The person who leaves it blank will be filling it in as she did the next application cycle...
Click to expand...
That's not gaming the system. That's lying. Gaming the system was me explaining how much I learned from a volunteer experience and omitting the fact that I hated doing it, which is why I stopped. It WAS a useful experience when certain people were around, but a lot of the staff were very irritating, and it was hard to get volunteer hours. So I found something else that I actually liked doing, and I did a lot of it.
 
Dude's facebook pic is highly disturbing and quite questionable. Why is he shirtless in bed while gazing seductively at his Labrador Retriever? :scared:

Dude is 27 years old and just finished undergrad this year? No AMCAS app, no MCAT, applies late...I wonder if he even took the pre-reqs...

MossPoh said:
The guy did get into Northwestern for undergrad, so he isn't completely ******ed.
Click to expand...

George W. Bush went to Yale....

Just like his daddy...

frikarika said:
Yep, gotta love nepotism! White people's affirmative action.
Click to expand...

😱:laugh:

Predocmd said:
Dude, I TOTALLY saw him at the Second Look activites. He's got a lot of nerve if you ask me.
Click to expand...

I'm curious; how did he conduct himself? How did people treat him?
 
DrPavoreal said:
Dude's facebook pic is highly disturbing and quite questionable. Why is he shirtless in bed while gazing seductively at his Labrador Retriever? :scared:

Dude is 27 years old and just finished undergrad this year? No AMCAS app, no MCAT, applies late...I wonder if he even took the pre-reqs...
Click to expand...

Who tells the truth about their age on Facebook?:laugh:
 
TheProwler said:
That's not gaming the system. That's lying. Gaming the system was me explaining how much I learned from a volunteer experience and omitting the fact that I hated doing it, which is why I stopped. It WAS a useful experience when certain people were around, but a lot of the staff were very irritating, and it was hard to get volunteer hours. So I found something else that I actually liked doing, and I did a lot of it.
Click to expand...


I'm not saying it isn't lying. I'm just saying that many will define it as "gaming the system," whether you define it that way or not. I made every effort to be honest and forthcoming in my application. I tried to eliminate as much BS as possible from the personal statement and ECs. It did not serve me well. Others who find it easier to embellish and lie are having more success, and they rarely get caught in the act. There's a guard at the front door and it's usually locked, but back doors swing open easier and no one is watching.

I will probably do the same thing I did the first time with my next application cycle. I understand it puts me at a significant disadvantage. Everyone is telling me to embellish and outright make stuff up. Many of them are in positions of authority. Everyone else is doing it. (Yes, they are). At the end of the day, I have to do what lets me sleep at night. Right now I just feel like a jerk for doing things the hard way.
 
Kthanksbye said:
I'm not saying it isn't lying. I'm just saying that many will define it as "gaming the system," whether you define it that way or not. I made every effort to be honest and forthcoming in my application. I tried to eliminate as much BS as possible from the personal statement and ECs. It did not serve me well. Others who find it easier to embellish and lie are having more success, and they rarely get caught in the act. There's a guard at the front door and it's usually locked, but back doors swing open easier and no one is watching.

I will probably do the same thing I did the first time with my next application cycle. I understand it puts me at a significant disadvantage. Everyone is telling me to embellish and outright make stuff up. Many of them are in positions of authority. Everyone else is doing it. (Yes, they are). At the end of the day, I have to do what lets me sleep at night. Right now I just feel like a jerk for doing things the hard way.
Click to expand...



Not to sound like an *** (which is difficult since I usually do), but why don't you actually do more? Lying is not the only alternative for not being good enough.
 
LizzyM said:
Who tells the truth about their age on Facebook?:laugh:
Click to expand...

:laugh:

If I ever met you in real life, I'd buy you a drink, Lizzy. :laugh:

He could be 36 for all I know. I just don't understand how he couldn't complete a Bachelor's degree before the age of 27 if he's so *exceptional*? It's not like he had to work a minimum wage job to support his family. 🙄

:meanie:
 
DrPavoreal said:
:laugh:

If I ever met you in real life, I'd buy you a drink, Lizzy. :laugh:

He could be 36 for all I know. I just don't understand how he couldn't complete a Bachelor's degree before the age of 27 if he's so *exceptional*? It's not like he had to work a minimum wage job to support his family. 🙄

:meanie:
Click to expand...

He was writing for a k-12 school newspaper in Fall 2003 (and a Crist supporter even then) so I suspect that he is the usual age for a college senior.



http://teacherweb.ftl.pinecrest.edu/sessmar/ICINewsletter/index.htm

Maybe he fudged his age so that he could be considered over 18 (or over 21) well before he really was.
 
Doublecortin said:
wow, 😱, this Kone character is really a toxic individual👎
Click to expand...


It sounds to me (based on his e-mails and statements) like this Kone guy is either a paranoid schizophrenic or on crack. I'm guessing this is what happens when a medical school dean is on drugs.
 
rogerwilco said:
Not to sound like an *** (which is difficult since I usually do), but why don't you actually do more? Lying is not the only alternative for not being good enough.
Click to expand...

I have been working at this for 3+ years. I have three degrees. I been volunteering for 2+ years. I have tutored, taught MCAT. I have done more than most of the pre-meds that I go to school with. This is part of the point. Under these circumstances, when everyone is asking that people continuously do more, only the people who embellish and lie are going to be able to fulfill those unwritten requirements. You didn't sound like an *** until you wrote that last sentence.
 
Kthanksbye said:
I'm not saying it isn't lying. I'm just saying that many will define it as "gaming the system," whether you define it that way or not. I made every effort to be honest and forthcoming in my application. I tried to eliminate as much BS as possible from the personal statement and ECs. It did not serve me well. Others who find it easier to embellish and lie are having more success, and they rarely get caught in the act. There's a guard at the front door and it's usually locked, but back doors swing open easier and no one is watching.

I will probably do the same thing I did the first time with my next application cycle. I understand it puts me at a significant disadvantage. Everyone is telling me to embellish and outright make stuff up. Many of them are in positions of authority. Everyone else is doing it. (Yes, they are). At the end of the day, I have to do what lets me sleep at night. Right now I just feel like a jerk for doing things the hard way.
Click to expand...

No, I can assure you from personal experience that not every applicant is embellishing, lying, and/or cheating. I didn't, you didn't, and I know plenty of others who I can say with some confidence would not. I also know that many do, and I know quite a few of them, too. Maintain your self-respect. Continue to do things the right way. Think about the others like yourself who may be qualified, but not willing to compromise their morals to "play the game." Would you be able to sleep at night if you lied to get in while they didn't? I wouldn't...
 
Kthanksbye said:
I have been working at this for 3+ years. I have three degrees. I been volunteering for 2+ years. I have tutored, taught MCAT. I have done more than most of the pre-meds that I go to school with. This is part of the point. Under these circumstances, when everyone is asking that people continuously do more, only the people who embellish and lie are going to be able to fulfill those unwritten requirements. You didn't sound like an *** until you wrote that last sentence.
Click to expand...

Tutoring and MCAT instruction are nice but did you didn't mention the MOST important thing - hands on clinical experience. I dare say you would have been better of shadowing a doctor (NOT the same as working in a hospital) and getting a great LOR than teaching the MCAT or tutoring. (Maybe you did do that, but something's got to be missing.)

Unfortunately, sometimes people work very hard but pick the wrong battles. I'm wondering if that's what you did. I've seen premeds complain how much stuff they do, and when I ask "how about clinical experience" they either "volunteered" or were too busy. Volunteering at a hospital says little about your future in medicine. If anything, it tells admissions what a great tech you'd be.

And there's a really good way to let admissions know you're not lying: back everything with a LOR. I really think that helped me a lot. Proven honesty goes a long way.
 
gplex86 said:
Tutoring and MCAT instruction are nice but did you didn't mention the MOST important thing - hands on clinical experience. I dare say you would have been better of shadowing a doctor (NOT the same as working in a hospital) and getting a great LOR than teaching the MCAT or tutoring. (Maybe you did do that, but something's got to be missing.)

Unfortunately, sometimes people work very hard but pick the wrong battles. I'm wondering if that's what you did.
Click to expand...

Another thing...
Unless all of the rejections are coming "pre-interview" don't discount the possibility that coming off as an entitled *** or an embittered jerk in the interview as the reason for failing to get an offer.
 
Kthanksbye said:
I have been working at this for 3+ years. I have three degrees. I been volunteering for 2+ years. I have tutored, taught MCAT. I have done more than most of the pre-meds that I go to school with. This is part of the point. Under these circumstances, when everyone is asking that people continuously do more, only the people who embellish and lie are going to be able to fulfill those unwritten requirements. You didn't sound like an *** until you wrote that last sentence.
Click to expand...

Have you gone through a cycle and not gotten in? Or are you applying for the first time this upcoming cycle?

I understand the paranoia about the process (I have not been through a cycle yet myself). But I do not for a second believe that only the people who embellish and lie are going to be able to fulfill the unwritten reqs. Sure, there are people who lie and pad their apps, but I just don't believe it is all or even most applicants...and I seriously doubt if the things that they can lie about and get away with (vol hours, etc) are the key factors determining their success...

Your posts sound awfully embittered, maybe understandable if you have gone through a cycle or two unsuccessfully, but way too bitter if you haven't done that yet...

Good luck.
 
Back on the original topic of this thread: According to a poster in the UF Class of 2012 thread, it has come out that Mendohlson has a 3.0 GPA.
 
LizzyM said:
Another thing...
Unless all of the rejections are coming "pre-interview" don't discount the possibility that coming off as an entitled *** or an embittered jerk in the interview as the reason for failing to get an offer.
Click to expand...


Thank you I am very aware of this possibility. I know that committee members are trying to sniff out any inkling of perceived entitlement or bad attitudes. This is why I don't like to mention that my family is in the medical field. Many people on admissions committees have a knee jerk reaction to this, as can be evidenced by such a post as this. I do not feel that I am entitled to anything. I know that it is very easy to be perceived that way and sometimes difficult to convince committee members in an interview that I do not feel entitled, given my background, when they are trying so hard to believe that I do feel entitled.

Sure I sound bitter. I am a little bitter. I am also on an anonymous forum after recently having a disappointing admissions cycle. I'm sure I'll get over before I have another interview.

Anyway, I've said my piece. I'm pretty much done. This thread will most likely spiral downwards into personal attacks (if it hasn't already), reminding me of why I don't look at SDN anymore. Have fun with it from here on out....
 
:corny:

All this thread needs now is for Ben (or even better, Dr. Kone) to get on here and start posting. It would go epic.
 
Kone is too busy pulling the e-mail of every member of the faculty and students (federal privacy laws be damned) trying to find the leaker that started this whole mess. (The corruption of the Dean & U Pres was the real start of the mess but that's not the way Kone wants to spin it).
 
This thread is depressing for more ways than one.

I'm going through the 2009 application process for the first time. Only reason I'm nervous is that I chose this path less than a year ago. I'm not interested in taking a year off (nor do I think it's right for me). I don't want people doubting how much I am in love with the potential of being in this profession just because I "recently" decided to go this way. I've had the most rigorous academic year imaginable, so my clinical experience outside of my volunteer work is weak (20 or so hours). I'm going to do what I can to add to that over the summer, but I hope it's not too late.
 
Back on the original topic of this thread: According to a poster in the UF Class of 2012 thread, it has come out that Mendohlson has a 3.0 GPA.[/quote]


I wonder how reliable that figure is? If correct, this whole situation bothers me even more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
Choose your medical school
Replies
1
Views
944
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
D
pasted wrong essay into the "Why... school of medicine"
Replies
7
Views
1K
LunaOri
LunaOri
K
Fulbright ETA vs Med School
Replies
1
Views
618
Real_Eyes
Real_Eyes
arka18
Do I have a chance of getting into med school with a CC DIY postbacc?
Replies
3
Views
1K
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
smc285
Chances of Getting Into a T20 Medical School
Replies
5
Views
3K
wysdoc
wysdoc
Top