Can A Counseling Psychologist(PHD) Work In The Schools???

[ProspectivPsych]

Hello Again!

I have a question. I am currently a student about to graduate from college and I have always wanted to become a School Psychologist. My university advisor, a Counseling Psychologist, has been telling me that it is better to be get A PhD in Counseling Psychology and then get liscensed to work in the schools or do your Practicum in the schools. He says that The School Pychology PhD will limit me and that I will have more options going for the counseling. Is this true? Can a school psychologist be trained in counseling and still work in the schools, if so how is that done. I, personally like this because I always wanted to do counseling psychology but because school psych seemed to be "a hot field," I thought why not jump on it?? Also, I would also LOVE to do counseling in the schools and not be limited to testing..I would appreciate a variety of answers if possible..
Thank you all for helping me..

Roda

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[docma]

Counseling Psych is a very versatile degree and I have known people with a CPsych degree that are in clinical, teaching, and school positions--but your best strategy is probably to contact some programs you are considering and ask for a list of where their alumni are currently working, including which might be in school settings. Although there are not as many Counseling Programs, they tend to be less in demand (therefore less competitive) and to be better in their funding, overall, than clinical programs.

 

[saurus]

Hello Again!

I have a question. I am currently a student about to graduate from college and I have always wanted to become a School Psychologist. My university advisor, a Counseling Psychologist, has been telling me that it is better to be get A PhD in Counseling Psychology and then get liscensed to work in the schools or do your Practicum in the schools. He says that The School Pychology PhD will limit me and that I will have more options going for the counseling. Is this true? Can a school psychologist be trained in counseling and still work in the schools, if so how is that done. I, personally like this because I always wanted to do counseling psychology but because school psych seemed to be "a hot field," I thought why not jump on it?? Also, I would also LOVE to do counseling in the schools and not be limited to testing..I would appreciate a variety of answers if possible..
Thank you all for helping me..

Roda

I would have to disagree with your adviser. I know several school psychologists who work in the schools and do counseling, but it's not their only role in the school. I know my program offers counseling as a specialization to students and I'm positive other programs do as well. Also, there are specialist level school psychologists that do counseling, but it's usually very limited.

 

[ProspectivPsych]

Saurus,

When you say you must disagree with my advisor, are you saying that people trained in COunseling Psych can't work in the schools as School Psychologists?

 

[PsyKardinal]

Yes you can work in school districts with a counseling psych degree. Some of the larger/richer school districts have thier own counseling department seperate from thier school counselors. The counseling department provides mental health services while the school counselors handle the career counseling and grade level testing administration.

Jeff

 

[saurus]

No, I disagree that getting a school psych degree will limit you. The field has and continues to evolve past the notion of the "testing machine". However, if counseling is the ONLY thing that you want to do, then you might be better off going to a counseling program.

 

[saurus]

Some of the larger/richer school districts have thier own counseling department seperate from thier school counselors.

I think you tapped into a terrific point. It always boils down to the funding.

 

[Jon4PsyD]

Yes you can work in the schools.
With a Mast'ers degree in Counseling you can work as a School Counselor. With a 48-60 credit Master's (and/or CAGS) program in Counseling you can work at a school as a Mental Health Counselor/School Adjustment Counselor/School Social Workers (title varies by state) and with the Ph.D. in Counseling Psychology you're qualified to take on a role as a Supervisor for students looking to get into the field, as well as do this at the University-level.

Hope that helped,
Jon

(I'm on the CAGS/M.A. track now)

 

[PhDshallsee]

There's a pretty big difference between a school counselor and a school psychologist.

I don't know too much about counseling, but a degree in school psychology focuses less on counseling and more on educational testing and other areas that a counseling psychologist would not receive adequate training in.

I suppose you could, but if you are interviewing for a school psychologist position in the schools, they're probably going to chose someone with a degree in school psychology (even at the masters level) over someone who little to no training in school psych.

 

[PhDshallsee]

He says that The School Pychology PhD will limit me and that I will have more options going for the counseling. Is this true?

No, I personally do not believe this is true. You'd be shocked where a PhD in school psych will take you these days.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

No, I personally do not believe this is true. You'd be shocked where a PhD in school psych will take you these days.

It definitely varies by state....some will let a clinical/counseling psych get licensed as a school psych, though other states req. quite a bit of work before they would allow this. I'm not sure if it goes the other way, outside of combined programs, which train both in clinical and school psych....but those programs are few and far between.

I'm not really sure (if any) scope of practice issues, whether it is on the assessment side or the clinical/therapy side. My bias is that clinical would provide more flexibility, but I can't state this as fact.

-t

 

[ProspectivPsych]

Ok, this is some GREAT information but I almost feel like Im being push to two different sides.. Here's a basic ques to you guys that may help me from thinking so indecisively..
If I want to be a school psychologist at a high school but counsel at the same time, I should just go for school psychology right ???? Instead of taking a risky jump in counseling psych and end up making $35,000 on average out of grad school if I can't get into the schools...ESPECIALLY since I hear that School Psych's in schools make more, not rich, but more.. like starting around $45,000 and moving up fast, especially in NY where Im from.
The thing is, I don't want to go for Counseling Psych and end up not being able to work in the schools that easily and settling for a job that may end up paying less...
I don't care too much for ONLY counseling..That's too void (for me) ...I want to work at a high school.. and believe it or not I like paperwork and would like working with parents, starting prevention programs in the schools, testing students and helping them improve, seeing how culture effects what people know and how they learn..stuff like that..

Oh and one last ques...
I know it wouldn't be easy, but is it easier to get into a School Psych PhD program than a Counseling one? Or is it the other way around??

I have so many questions, sorry
Thanks for all your help though...

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Counseling is a pretty general term, so let me try and explain the differences by job type, (how i see it. It can vary by place, so YMMV) It seems that most schools are trending towards a team approach, so you will have more general contact with a variety of people who interact with the children. (Teacher, guidance counselor, school psych, etc)

School Guidance Counselor: Career and educational guidance. There tends to be a good deal of student contact, though probably more breadth than depth (you won't meet with students on end).

School Psychologist: Primarily assessment, screening for LDs, some interaction with teachers, though more likely at the 'team' level. Some schools are more on the assessment/report side, and other schools lean on the integrative approach where there is assessment, but then you help work with the teacher to implement.

Mental Health Counselor / Counselor: General school problems, adjustment issues, etc. Sometimes the guidance counselor does this work, especially in elementary education.

Therapist / Clinician: Referred out to work on particular issues with the child/family. I don't really think most schools keep someone on staff for this role, though more affluent schools may have this option. Clinicans also do assessment, though it falls more on the personality, neuropsych, and behavioral side.

Oh and one last ques...
I know it wouldn't be easy, but is it easier to get into a School Psych PhD program than a Counseling one? Or is it the other way around??

I have so many questions, sorry
Thanks for all your help though...

From what I've heard, both types of programs on average get less applicants, so they have higher acceptance rates (though some still have VERY low acceptance rates), but the people are even more self-selected than clinician. So you are still competing against many very good candidates, but you don't have the 'extra' people who may or may not be as competitive. They also seem to attract people who have a few more years of experience. Pretty much all of the school psychologists I know were teachers first (or had a related job for awhile). The counseling people I know did other things before going back. Clinical seems a bit more like med school, in that it is straight through, or a couple years of research in between and then back in. Just my 2 cents.

-t

 

[PhDshallsee]

If I want to be a school psychologist at a high school but counsel at the same time, I should just go for school psychology right ???? Instead of taking a risky jump in counseling psych and end up making $35,000 on average out of grad school if I can't get into the schools...ESPECIALLY since I hear that School Psych's in schools make more, not rich, but more.. like starting around $45,000 and moving up fast, especially in NY where Im from.

I don't know about NY State, but a lot of school psychologists don't counsel (and neither do a lot of school counselors, but that's a whole other issue). They do assessment. Most school psychs, esp. at the master's level, only counsel in bereavement situations, such as after a suicide, a school shooting, etc. I've yet to meet a single school psych who spends the bulk of their time counseling. Most school psychs do gifted testing or are on IEP committees and do LD testing at the master's level.

I know it wouldn't be easy, but is it easier to get into a School Psych PhD program than a Counseling one? Or is it the other way around??

I think it's hard to say. I'm applying to PhD programs in school psych, and it's incredibly competitive. I really don't know about counseling programs.

 

[saurus]

In terms of job roles for school psychologists, I think it varies wildly by district/school and the competence of the school psychologist. If you can demonstrate to your administration that you have x number of kids in your school/district that have counseling as part of their IEPs and that you've had the training (usually specialization) in counseling, then most districts will let you do counseling, but it wouldn't be your sole job role. One school psychologist that I know spends approximately 60% of her time doing counseling, but she only serves one school so she has more flexibility in her job.

As for competition, I've said this before, but I'll repeat myself again to get the point across. School psych programs look for the same things as clinical programs in their applicants (strong GPA/GRE, research experience, relevant work/volunteer experience, etc), but not as many people apply so in that sense they are less competitive.

 

[Jon4PsyD]

The last few comments have been very informative for the original poster.

I'm currently working at a school and to be honest, it's LOADS of paperwork! So you may just love it after all. In terms of licensures and job titles, the state I'm in seems to be pretty much on par with NY's so I know what you're saying about the dmand for School Psychologists.

Unfortunately though, School Psychologists and School Counselors (or Guidance Counselors as they were once called), don't do much counseling. Budgets need to be passed, 'no child can be left behind' or the whole staff is out, students must be these tests with good scores, etc etc...and the behvorial side of things is just getting overlooked. In affluent areas, maybe not..in make or break areas, yep.

I have yet to see the School Psychologist with a student. It's in and out with testing and the School Psychologist floats among the town's schools (doesnt have their own office in the building is what I'm saying). I only see this person at IEP meetings really. Which I think is just how it is for the most part.

I mean, are you looking to go to graduate school in New York as well? Pace University (Manhattan) and Hofstra both have combined programs, that would solve your problem right there lol. Of course, these are PsyD programs. And SUNY-Buffalo has a combined Ph.D.

Anyway if you're looking to be in more of an administrative role--which is working as a team with principals, teachers, speech-language pathologists, special ed teachers, classroom teachers, school counselors--and are interested in testing and assesment, go for the Ph.D. in School Psychology.

Counseling Psychology has the least emphasis on testing and assesment out of the three (Clinical and School being the other two).

If you want to work with kids in more of a therapy-type setting, get your Ph.D. or Psy.D. at a program that offers Clinical/Child. Or get your LMHC.

It's all TOO confusing so there's nothing wrong with having a zillion questions, I know I did. And I also know if I didn't ask them I'd have no clue what path I'd be on (haha and maybe I still don't).

Best of luck!
Jon

 

[Jon4PsyD]

One more thing, I looked up on the APA's website which combined programs were approved. 4 of the 10 APA-Approved programs are in NY

University at Buffalo (Ph.D.)
Combined: Counseling-School

Hofstra University (Ph.D.)
Combined: Clinical-School

Pace University (PsyD)
Combined: Clinical-School

Yeshiva University
Combined: Clinical-School

Hope that helps! Also, yes Counseling Ph.D. and School Ph.D. programs are less competitive. School being less competitive than even Counseling.
(For example, Rutgers gets what? 400-500 applications for their Clinical PsyD? For the School PsyD they receive 80--which apparantly is a high application number compared to other School programs).

 

[psychplease]

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[not 2 late]

Saurus,

When you say you must disagree with my advisor, are you saying that people trained in COunseling Psych can't work in the schools as School Psychologists?

You need special credentialing/licensure (depending on the state) to work as a "school psychologist." What school psychs do is entirely different from what counselors/therapists do. If you want to work as a "school counselor" you need a special credential as well. Neither of these two positions do much counseling. The former does a lot of evaluations, consultations, etc...the latter does a lot of scheduling and some program development. You can work for an agency that is based in a school setting. There's been a big trend in getting mental health practitionars in schools. I've worked with several and the majority have been MFT's. Most love it because the children are acccessible and there's the opportunity to work collaboratively with school personnel. The bad thing about is that they feel isolated.
Good Luck