Can I become an MD with a full sleeve of tattoos?

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Agreed. Patients will judge you on the way you look like it or not. On the other thread, people were giving me crap because I said someone who buttons the bottom suit botton does not look professional. Like it or not, there will be some patients who will mistrust you if you do that.
 
Full sleeves is only acceptable for DO emergency medicine physicians working in highly urban areas with a lot of violent crime, in the underfunded hospital that sees more then it can handle in drugs and trauma. Sorry OP.
 
AMCASTuesdays said:
I disagree just bc from personal experience the result is the same. I also grew up in new england small world and people ive encountered who feel that way abt black hair aren’t waxing philosophical about the dif between choice and inheritance. (Ive been straight up asked why i dont straighten my hair based on misconceptions about black hair). At the end of the day me and the person w visible tattoos are gonna deal with that the same way: with a smile and a joke of some sort lol. My point isn’t so much the semantics its just that there is a very select group of physicians with whom no patient ever has ever found a presentation problem with.

Maybe its just bc i’m already starting from a point where I’m already going to be dealing with presentation issues, but im thinking: Why worry so much and just focus on presenting yourself as you are as well as you can.
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I'm not black so I can't speak for that experience, but I'm not white and the racism I experience is just not something I feel is fair to compare with prejudice that is given to people for having tattoos. The patient reactions may be similar, but one comes from a much more "unfair" place, for a lack of a better term, and isn't up for discussion in the same way as tattoos are since it isn't a choice.

I agree about not worrying and presenting yourself as you are as well as you can. Regardless, OP asked and should be aware of prejudices that come with it, and should be prepared to cover them up as per certain hospitals' policies. Hopefully things change in the near future, but there's no use in dismissing the added challenges.
 
Didn’t read the other posts. I’m in med school now and have 11 tattoos. It didn’t keep me out of med school, and I’ve never had anyone comment on them or treat me differently because of them. Unless your tattoos are extremely visible, like on your neck or face or the back of your hand (which yours are not), most of the time they will be covered or could easily be covered. I have a visible finger tattoo and have been seeing patients. None of them commented on it and I had no problem having them open up to me.
 
DrStephenStrange said:
What if said tattoo is a swastika? Would that change your mind? Just curious.
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Of course. Any type of tattoo that comes off as prejudice or offensive is a no. In my opinion, just because society views tattoos or body modification in a certain way, does not mean it is right. Some may say, "It is what it is.", just follow the system. Many people may be afraid to change what society sees as "normal". Regardless if it is a mistake from childhood or an awesome post medical school sleeve, no one should judge a book by its cover. Some people feel empowered by the ink they have. The loss of a family member, military service, etc. It may just be as simply as liking "Harry Potter" so that person gets a "Hogwarts" tattoo. It doesn't have to have this deep meaning. Sure, is there crazy people with tattoos.. yes. Is there also crazy people without tattoos.. yes as well. That totally tatted orthopedic surgeon, cares and loves his job and may do everything right. The person that has zero tattoos and is very conservative may abuse his family, have a drinking problem, etc. Like I said before, judging a book by its cover is one of societies flaws. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but don't let it get in the way of a great person trying to make the healthcare world a better place. Thank you.
 
Dante Colon said:
Of course. Any type of tattoo that comes off as prejudice or offensive is a no. In my opinion, just because society views tattoos or body modification in a certain way, does not mean it is right. Some may say, "It is what it is.", just follow the system. Many people may be afraid to change what society sees as "normal". Regardless if it is a mistake from childhood or an awesome post medical school sleeve, no one should judge a book by its cover. Some people feel empowered by the ink they have. The loss of a family member, military service, etc. It may just be as simply as liking "Harry Potter" so that person gets a "Hogwarts" tattoo. It doesn't have to have this deep meaning. Sure, is there crazy people with tattoos.. yes. Is there also crazy people without tattoos.. yes as well. That totally tatted orthopedic surgeon, cares and loves his job and may do everything right. The person that has zero tattoos and is very conservative may abuse his family, have a drinking problem, etc. Like I said before, judging a book by its cover is one of societies flaws. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but don't let it get in the way of a great person trying to make the healthcare world a better place. Thank you.
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I don’t think Christopher Duntsch has any tattoos.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Didn’t read the other posts. I’m in med school now and have 11 tattoos. It didn’t keep me out of med school, and I’ve never had anyone comment on them or treat me differently because of them. Unless your tattoos are extremely visible, like on your neck or face or the back of your hand (which yours are not), most of the time they will be covered or could easily be covered. I have a visible finger tattoo and have been seeing patients. None of them commented on it and I had no problem having them open up to me.
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Greatly appreciate the kind words and input! 🙂
 
People in this this thread: "Tattoos are fine. People won't think less of you."
Also people in this thread: "The best way to cover up your tattoos is....."

Here are some fun stats:
- People with tattoos are 630% more likely to have Hepatitis C that those without.
- Crime theory correlates tattoos with impulsiveness and criminal behavior.
- 62.1% of Millennials surveyed said that they would discriminate against people with tattoos.
- Studies show that people with tattoos are considered by their peers to be less intelligent and more easily influenced.

Sources:
Dukes, Richard L. "Regret among tattooed adolescents." The Social Science Journal 53.4 (2016): 455-458. EBSCOhost, doi:10.1016/j.soscij.2016.08.004

Foltz, Kristen A. “The Millennial’s Perception of Tattoos: Self Expression or Business Faux Pas?” College Student Journal, vol. 48, no. 4, Winter 2014, pp. 589–602.

Haley, Robert W., and R. Paul Fischer. "Commercial tattooing as a potentially important source of hepatitis C infection: clinical epidemiology of 626 consecutive patients unaware of their hepatitis C serologic status." Medicine 80.2 (2001): 134-151.

Resenhoeft, Annette, et al. “Tattoos Can Harm Perceptions: A Study and Suggestions.” Journal of American College Health, vol. 56, no. 5, Mar. 2008, pp. 593–596. EBSCOhost, doi:10.3200/JACH.56.5.593-596
 
IsleyOfTheNorth said:
People in this this thread: "Tattoos are fine. People won't think less of you."
Also people in this thread: "The best way to cover up your tattoos is....."

Here are some fun stats:
- People with tattoos are 630% more likely to have Hepatitis C that those without.
- Crime theory correlates tattoos with impulsiveness and criminal behavior.
- 62.1% of Millennials surveyed said that they would discriminate against people with tattoos.
- Studies show that people with tattoos are considered by their peers to be less intelligent and more easily influenced.

Sources:
Dukes, Richard L. "Regret among tattooed adolescents." The Social Science Journal 53.4 (2016): 455-458. EBSCOhost, doi:10.1016/j.soscij.2016.08.004

Foltz, Kristen A. “The Millennial’s Perception of Tattoos: Self Expression or Business Faux Pas?” College Student Journal, vol. 48, no. 4, Winter 2014, pp. 589–602.

Haley, Robert W., and R. Paul Fischer. "Commercial tattooing as a potentially important source of hepatitis C infection: clinical epidemiology of 626 consecutive patients unaware of their hepatitis C serologic status." Medicine 80.2 (2001): 134-151.

Resenhoeft, Annette, et al. “Tattoos Can Harm Perceptions: A Study and Suggestions.” Journal of American College Health, vol. 56, no. 5, Mar. 2008, pp. 593–596. EBSCOhost, doi:10.3200/JACH.56.5.593-596
Click to expand...
Please refer to my message above. You are presenting statistics that are societies fault. Just because they are statistics, doesn't make it morally right. Can you provide research that provided a direct relationship with bad doctors and people with tattoos? All criminals are bad, not all doctors with tattoos are criminals. Shoot! Medical school is known to be vigorous and daunting. Can we trust the admissions committee when they are making their selections? I'm sure background checks are done. There is also statistics on which race commits more crimes. Do you see where I'm going with this? It would be wrong to racial discriminate someone from joining medical school simply based on irrelevant statistics.
 
IsleyOfTheNorth said:
People in this this thread: "Tattoos are fine. People won't think less of you."
Also people in this thread: "The best way to cover up your tattoos is....."
Click to expand...

Nice misrepresentation of the argument there. Your obvious bias aside, your post is not helpful since OP already has tattoos. Are you saying he shouldn’t go into medicine because of them?

And your stats are also pretty irrelevant given that they don’t apply to OP. A study on celiac disease in 20-28 year old white women is not going to be generalizable and applicable to a 40 year old African American male. A study about adolescents getting tattoos and regretting it is not relevant to a vet going to medical school.
 
IsleyOfTheNorth said:
People in this this thread: "Tattoos are fine. People won't think less of you."
Also people in this thread: "The best way to cover up your tattoos is....."

Here are some fun stats:
- People with tattoos are 630% more likely to have Hepatitis C that those without.
- Crime theory correlates tattoos with impulsiveness and criminal behavior.
- 62.1% of Millennials surveyed said that they would discriminate against people with tattoos.
- Studies show that people with tattoos are considered by their peers to be less intelligent and more easily influenced.

Sources:
Dukes, Richard L. "Regret among tattooed adolescents." The Social Science Journal 53.4 (2016): 455-458. EBSCOhost, doi:10.1016/j.soscij.2016.08.004

Foltz, Kristen A. “The Millennial’s Perception of Tattoos: Self Expression or Business Faux Pas?” College Student Journal, vol. 48, no. 4, Winter 2014, pp. 589–602.

Haley, Robert W., and R. Paul Fischer. "Commercial tattooing as a potentially important source of hepatitis C infection: clinical epidemiology of 626 consecutive patients unaware of their hepatitis C serologic status." Medicine 80.2 (2001): 134-151.

Resenhoeft, Annette, et al. “Tattoos Can Harm Perceptions: A Study and Suggestions.” Journal of American College Health, vol. 56, no. 5, Mar. 2008, pp. 593–596. EBSCOhost, doi:10.3200/JACH.56.5.593-596
Click to expand...
And African Americans are two times more likely to commit violent crime, doesn't make it a valid or good reason to keep people out of medical school. If you have a problem with other people having tattoos kindly invent a time machine and go back to the 19th century.
 
Dante Colon said:
You are presenting statistics that are societies fault. Just because they are statistics, doesn't make it morally right.
Click to expand...

First, I would argue that taking someone's past decision-making ability into account when assessing their future decision-making ability isn't an issue of morality, but rather practicality.

Patients, many with little education, will judge based on appearance. It's why doctors wear ties instead of flip-flops.

You can argue that doctors SHOULD be able to "X", but it's not going to erase a million years of human evolution. Humans judge on appearance.
 
IsleyOfTheNorth said:
First, I would argue that taking someone's past decision-making ability into account when assessing their future decision-making ability isn't an issue of morality, but rather practicality.

Patients, many with little education, will judge based on appearance. It's why doctors wear ties instead of flip-flops.

You can argue that doctors SHOULD be able to "X", but it's not going to erase a million years of human evolution. Humans judge on appearance.
Click to expand...

And you're equating your own preferences with the ability to make good decisions. Getting tattoos is not indicative of poor decision making ability. It just means they have different opinions than you.
 
IsleyOfTheNorth said:
First, I would argue that taking someone's past decision-making ability into account when assessing their future decision-making ability isn't an issue of morality, but rather practicality.

Patients, many with little education, will judge based on appearance. It's why doctors wear ties instead of flip-flops.

You can argue that doctors SHOULD be able to "X", but it's not going to erase a million years of human evolution. Humans judge on appearance.
Click to expand...
And patients perceive women more commonly to be nurses rather then doctors. Should we keep women out of medical school too?
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
... your post is not helpful since OP already has tattoos. Are you saying he shouldn’t go into medicine because of them?
Click to expand...

Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't addressing OP. I'd recommend covering them or having them removed if possible.

Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
A study about adolescents getting tattoos and regretting it is not relevant to a vet going to medical school.
Click to expand...

I didn't take the effort to separate out the relevant studies for those stats, no will I, but the data is there if anyone is interested.
 
IsleyOfTheNorth said:
Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't addressing OP. I'd recommend covering them or having them removed if possible.



I didn't take the effort to separate out the relevant studies for those stats, no will I, but the data is there if anyone is interested.
Click to expand...
I mean your whole attitude is basically "this person isn't a perfect pearly white candidate who is a virgin and has never had anything but communion wine, and thus is statistically likely to do this this and that". How does this do anything to contribute to OP's question or generally add anything to conversation other then just being judgey?
 
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Princeton Medical Student said:
And patients perceive women more commonly to be nurses rather then doctors. Should we keep women out of medical school too?
Click to expand...

This is such a lazy post. Sorry to be harsh, but can you really not think of any differences between gender and tattoos that might be relevant?
 
IsleyOfTheNorth said:
Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't addressing OP. I'd recommend covering them or having them removed if possible.
Click to expand...

lol this is ridiculous advice. Unless you are in the OR or the ED, you're likely to have them covered anyway. And when they aren't covered, the majority of people don't care. The ones that do are not likely to say anything to you. If they judge you based on having your tattoos, who cares? You're not trying to win a popularity contest. Patients will think you're stupid and that they know better than you even without tattoos.

Getting them removed? First of all, that's terrible advice. But removing a sleeve? lmao

I didn't take the effort to separate out the relevant studies for those stats, no will I, but the data is there if anyone is interested.
Click to expand...

There is data on whether patients are less likely to follow recommendations from or trust a physician who has tattoos? I'd love to see that study.
 
IsleyOfTheNorth said:
This is such a lazy post. Sorry to be harsh, but can you really not think of any differences between gender and tattoos that might be relevant?
Click to expand...
Honestly, no I can't. Both situations would be one party judging a different party on perceptions rather then the actual person.
 
Princeton Medical Student said:
I mean your whole attitude is basically "this person isn't a perfect pearly white candidate who is a virgin and has never had anything but communion wine, and thus is statistically likely to do this this and that". How does this do anything to contribute to OP's question or generally add anything to conversation other then just being a judgey dick?
Click to expand...

While I agree with your assessment of their posts, let's keep the name calling out of it.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
It's not debatable.
Doctor A: conservative clean cut appearance
Doctor B: Noticeable elective body modifications

Doctor A will turn off less patients than doctor B. End of story. I'm not sure why you are trying to debate this when you have multiple medical students, residents, and attendings all saying the exact same thing.


Not really the same. The bolded is the core issue, there is something you can do about elective, visible body modifications. You can't really change african american hair. That's kinda the whole point.
Click to expand...

Lol i apologize for having an opinion on this matter, as usual.

As african american i can say that the fact that we cant change our hair really is beside the point for most people who have a problem with it.
 
ciestar said:
This is the attitude one place I’ve rotated at. Lots and lots of 75+ somethings patients that don’t hold back their thoughts and tell you how they feel about your appearance.
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lol my favorite is when someone asks how I'm going to feel about my tattoos when I'm 80 (I've never had a patient ask this, just people I know). I always just laugh and say that I don't think I'll give a ****, because I'll be 80.
 
IsleyOfTheNorth said:
First, I would argue that taking someone's past decision-making ability into account when assessing their future decision-making ability isn't an issue of morality, but rather practicality.

Patients, many with little education, will judge based on appearance. It's why doctors wear ties instead of flip-flops.

You can argue that doctors SHOULD be able to "X", but it's not going to erase a million years of human evolution. Humans judge on appearance.
Click to expand...

IsleyOfTheNorth said:
This is such a lazy post. Sorry to be harsh, but can you really not think of any differences between gender and tattoos that might be relevant?
Click to expand...
Respectfully, people like you seem to be the reason why many individuals with tattoos get discouraged from practicing medicine. We need change.
 
lem0nworld said:
I'm not black so I can't speak for that experience, but I'm not white and the racism I experience is just not something I feel is fair to compare with prejudice that is given to people for having tattoos. The patient reactions may be similar, but one comes from a much more "unfair" place, for a lack of a better term, and isn't up for discussion in the same way as tattoos are since it isn't a choice.

I agree about not worrying and presenting yourself as you are as well as you can. Regardless, OP asked and should be aware of prejudices that come with it, and should be prepared to cover them up as per certain hospitals' policies. Hopefully things change in the near future, but there's no use in dismissing the added challenges.
Click to expand...

I hear you, for me I don’t necessarily consider a patient having an opinion about my hair racism tho. Definitely prejudicial but to me I feel like racism is more like an actionable consequence due to a prejudice. Like I had a friend who said early on in our friendship thought that dreadlocks were made with mayonnaise (lol ridiculous). It was just a matter of me being like “no that’s wrong, here’s what actually happens” and for me something like that is more...idk, lower stakes, if that makes sense? I can’t speak on your experiences, but maybe that’s where our dif opinion comes from. I totally understand what you’re saying though, my mom feels the same way haha (I was asking her two cents on the OP question and subsequent posts).

My initial post was abt patient perceptions, and I definitely wouldn’t liken something more serious like being barred from a job for my race or hair to the same for a tattoo- the former is obviously racism for me.
 
You’ll have on your lab coat most of the time. It’s really not a problem - there are quite a few physicians and nurses I had never known had extensive ink (never knew they had any) until I saw them outside of work. My hospital relaxed its policy a few years ago from “no visible tattoos” to “no offensive tattoos.” Most people still keep them covered - perhaps it’s due to the overwhelmingly conservative patient population, but the more likely reason is it’s cold enough to save the Polar Bears and almost everyone is wearing a fleece, long sleeve undershirt, suit, or lab coat.
 
I need sleep, so here are the short versions:

Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
.... And when they aren't covered, the majority of people don't care. The ones that do are not likely to say anything to you. If they judge you based on having your tattoos, who cares? You're not trying to win a popularity contest. Patients will think you're stupid and that they know better than you even without tattoos.
Click to expand...

(Bolding added) You're right. They'll silently make decisions about you based on your appearance. Rarely to people state or sometimes even think about the judgements they're making. A restaurant with a bad display can't know how many customers it's losing - that doesn't mean they aren't missing those opportunities.

Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
There is data on whether patients are less likely to follow recommendations from or trust a physician who has tattoos? I'd love to see that study.
Click to expand...

I gave you peer-reviewed data on general perceptions of people with tattoos. If you want left-handed physicians specifically, you're going to have to find that on your own.

Princeton Medical Student said:
Honestly, no I can't. Both situations would be one party judging a different party on perceptions rather then the actual person.
Click to expand...

The difference between being born a woman and getting elective cosmetic surgery is that one is elective cosmetic surgery.

Dante Colon said:
Respectfully, people like you seem to be the reason why many individuals with tattoos get discouraged from practicing medicine. We need change.
Click to expand...

I personally wouldn't care if my physician had tattoos. Let me repeat that: I personally wouldn't care if my physician had tattoos. That's because I'm smart enough and educated enough to use other judgments to assess people. Most people are not me.

If you want to get inked and "fight the power", go for it.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Didn’t read the other posts. I’m in med school now and have 11 tattoos. It didn’t keep me out of med school, and I’ve never had anyone comment on them or treat me differently because of them. Unless your tattoos are extremely visible, like on your neck or face or the back of your hand (which yours are not), most of the time they will be covered or could easily be covered. I have a visible finger tattoo and have been seeing patients. None of them commented on it and I had no problem having them open up to me.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of tatted docs out there. The doctor who delivered my sister's baby had a very visible arm tattoo. It was in all the pictures too.
 
The off-topic debate is really mind-numbing...

There is zero chance of a patient judging you for not having piercings/tattoos.

If you choose to have visible piercings/tattoos, some folks might question your capability/proficiency/judgment (whether that is right or wrong is a different discussion)...
 
OxenFoxen said:
The off-topic debate is really mind-numbing...

There is zero chance of a patient judging you for not having piercings/tattoos.

If you choose to have visible piercings/tattoos, some folks might question your capability/proficiency/judgment (whether that is right or wrong is a different discussion)...
Click to expand...

People will judge you on just about anything and everything. You will find a thread on here with differing opinions regarding what color tie, type of shoes, shave/noshave, hair style, politics, approach, and the list goes on and on.

..........and whether you care is up to you.

In the wise words of my old 1st sergeant.... " two tears in a bucket, ****it"
 
tattoos are obviously still a controversial thing, so i would recommend avoiding them or at least hiding them from patients
 
Make something like this and radiate outwards
93BDC01F-7349-4130-B906-F33E202E6D81.jpeg
 
We have a doctor we admit patients to regularly that has a sleeve and neck tats. He’s an old veteran. A lot of the patients we see in the ED are his.
 
At the end of the day - unless you have face/neck tats, you’ll be fine. You can cover them up if needed. I have a coresident with an arm tattoo, only seen when he wears scrubs, and it hasn’t been an issue for him.
 
differentiating said:
At the end of the day - unless you have face/neck tats, you’ll be fine. You can cover them up if needed. I have a coresident with an arm tattoo, only seen when he wears scrubs, and it hasn’t been an issue for him.
Click to expand...
The only acceptable face tattoo is if you get a tattoo of your face full scale on your face but a little bit to the left. Scare the crap out of people exiting 3D movies.
 
Harry J. Potter said:
Not allowing people to do good in the world based on their tattoos is a problem. Judging people based on their look is a problem.
Click to expand...

Yes, clearly a bias against people who want to enter a specific profession after choosing elective cosmetic surgery is the greatest tragedy of our time. #FightThePower
 
IsleyOfTheNorth said:
Yes, clearly a bias against people who want to enter a specific profession after choosing elective cosmetic surgery is the greatest tragedy of our time. #FightThePower
Click to expand...
Oh, so now you just want to make a blanket statement about thinking it is OK to judge someone for doing something that makes them feel more comfortable or happier with their own body?

Can a woman who elects to remove her breasts because of a genetic propensity towards breast cancer go in to medicine?

Can a post-op trans male enter medicine?

Can someone with ear rings or who decided to have a mole removed enter medicine?

All of these are elective cosmetic surgeries that make someone more comfortable or happier with their own body. Will they be judged? By some. Should we passively accept that judgement as credible? Abso-fookin-lutely not.
 
Mr. Dr. Prof. Patrick said:
Oh, so now you just want to make a blanket statement about thinking it is OK to judge someone for doing something that makes them feel more comfortable or happier with their own body?

Can a woman who elects to remove her breasts because of a genetic propensity towards breast cancer go in to medicine?

Can a post-op trans male enter medicine?

Can someone with ear rings or who decided to have a mole removed enter medicine?

All of these are elective cosmetic surgeries that make someone more comfortable or happier with their own body. Will they be judged? By some. Should we passively accept that judgement as credible? Abso-fookin-lutely not.
Click to expand...

All of this seems like a good argument until you put any thought into it whatsoever. Take some time and think about it a little deeper.

I realize it's fun to embrace that righteous hate, but it's something you really shouldn't indulge.
 
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