Can research hurt your residency application in some circumstances?

[deleted1129181]

I suppose there are two potential scenarios for this:

1) Doing research in a specialty during MS1-MS3 (for example, OBGYN), only to find out that you don't want to go into that specialty cause another one catches your interest (Optho, for example). But now all the optho residencies will see that you did a bunch of OBGYN research and fault you for it.

2) Doing research in the specialty you apply to, BUT the program you want to go to doesn't like their residents doing too much research.

I spoke with a resident yesterday who told me that both of these scenarios are possible and has seen his own program fault applicants in both scenarios.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Hzreio]

Lol… take it with a grain of salt. People switch specialties all the time. Expecting you to know what you wanna do from day 1 of med school is a bit ridiculous.

I’ve never heard of anyone being penalized for too much research.

 

[deleted1129181]

Lol… take it with a grain of salt. People switch specialties all the time. Expecting you to know what you wanna do from day 1 of med school is a bit ridiculous.

I’ve never heard of anyone being penalized for too much research.

I agree, but having a crapload of research in a single specialty just to change your mind at the end of MS3 does strike me as a little odd. Cause that person can change their mind again, or worse yet, it may spark a fear that the applicant is applying to both specialties (although applying to both obgyn and optho would be super bizzare LOL). But I'm just a med student so what do I know.....

 

[Taddy Mason]

Totally fine to switch field of interest late and have research in an unrelated field but be prepared to talk about it and why you switched during interviews. If it’s genuine, sincere, you can talk about your change in interests with some depth, and LORs back it up you should be fine. When reviewing/discussing applicants post interview since I’ve been involved in residency interviews, rarely have there been disagreements between interviewers when it comes to discussing whether someone comes across as clearly applying to our field as a backup v. having a genuine interest and it being a late decision.

As far as amount of research, if you are very involved in research and apply to a program that may not be as research heavy, it’s not that the programs dislikes it as much as they wonder how happy you would be there if the program may not suit your career goals (e.g., academics or research). And unhappy residents (for whatever reason it may be) can be particularly problematic for coresidents, faculty, and the program as a whole.

 

[operaman]

I think you’re asking the wrong questions. The better question is: can having research hurt you more than having none at all?

The answer to that is a resound hell no. In both scenarios above, better some than none at all. If you want a small community program and have 100 pubs and a solid app, you can overcome any pre-II rejection with a phone call. Overcoming no research at all takes a lot more than that.

Is a lot of productive research in one unrelated field better/worse than pubs across multiple fields? This is a tougher question but may be the only scenario that gets close to what you’re asking. In this case the less focused CV might be better for the reasons you list above, but both pale in comparison to productive output in your field of choice. Probably makes more sense to invest in the most likely field to build rapport for letters and possibly a home program match.

 

[deleted1129181]

Thank you so much @operaman, @Taddy Mason and @Hzreio for your thorough and genuine responses! I feel a lot better now about having excessive research in a field I won't be applying to. Much appreciated

 

[eteshoe]

Agree with @Taddy Mason and @operaman - from my experience I've only had one friend who was dinged for too much research. He was a MD/PhD aiming at ortho but eventually found more love w/ plastics. Typically you can parlay that much research experience into some viable position.

I suggest trying research early to see if you like it and picking projects that can have applications across different specialties. Overall a little experience is fine in most cases unless you're applying to some research-intensive program.

 

[Lost in Translation]

I’ve never heard of anyone being penalized for too much research.

I asked for feedback from one of the programs I interviewed at and they said that my research being not in the field that I applied to reflected negatively on my application to them.

Yes, I switched late from the field of that research to my current field. No, I did not dual apply.

 

[mrbreakfast]

1) Doing research in a specialty during MS1-MS3 (for example, OBGYN), only to find out that you don't want to go into that specialty cause another one catches your interest (Optho, for example). But now all the optho residencies will see that you did a bunch of OBGYN research and fault you for it.

I had a dozen-plus publications in a completely different specialty when I applied. No one cared. Only possible scenario I can think of is a highly-competitive GS program seeing a ton of surgical subspecialty research and thinking "this person is dual applying." But chances are that, in this situation, you actually are dual applying, so...

2) Doing research in the specialty you apply to, BUT the program you want to go to doesn't like their residents doing too much research.

No program thinks this way. At my program, we occasionally get people with a ton of research who ask if they'll get protected time for more research. No, you won't. You can do as much research as you like on your own time, or during electives. If you want to go somewhere that'll give you extra time for research, maybe you should go somewhere else. But we'll still take you, it's really up to you. Etc.

 

[Tenk]

Everything is relative. You’re behind people with research in the field you’re applying but ahead of people with no research at all.

 

[7331poas]

Lol… take it with a grain of salt. People switch specialties all the time. Expecting you to know what you wanna do from day 1 of med school is a bit ridiculous.

I’ve never heard of anyone being penalized for too much research.

I mean, if you have 8 derm papers and a derm sub-I and you are applying rads, how are they supposed to take that?

 

[7331poas]

Totally fine to switch field of interest late and have research in an unrelated field but be prepared to talk about it and why you switched during interviews. If it’s genuine, sincere, you can talk about your change in interests with some depth, and LORs back it up you should be fine. When reviewing/discussing applicants post interview since I’ve been involved in residency interviews, rarely have there been disagreements between interviewers when it comes to discussing whether someone comes across as clearly applying to our field as a backup v. having a genuine interest and it being a late decision.

As far as amount of research, if you are very involved in research and apply to a program that may not be as research heavy, it’s not that the programs dislikes it as much as they wonder how happy you would be there if the program may not suit your career goals (e.g., academics or research). And unhappy residents (for whatever reason it may be) can be particularly problematic for coresidents, faculty, and the program as a whole.

Depends on the field for sure. If you are a rads program I would definitely be aware that 20% or so of my applications are backups from ENT ortho etc.

 

[deleted1129181]

Depends on the field for sure. If you are a rads program I would definitely be aware that 20% or so of my applications are backups from ENT ortho etc.

Unless you have some data to back that up, you're just speculating.

 

[mrbreakfast]

If you are a rads program I would definitely be aware that 20% or so of my applications are backups from ENT ortho etc.

Unless you have some data to back that up, you're just speculating.

Extrapolating from the data, ~10% of DR applicants dual-applied with a specialty other than IR/RO (this is assuming if someone applied to IR/RO and another specialty, that specialty was DR, which I think is a reasonable assumption), but on the other hand, dual applications to surgical subspecialties are relatively (and surprisingly) rare (~6% of applicants on average across specialties).

As you speculated, most of those rads dual-applicants are probably derm, which has ~twice the number of dual applicants (in absolute numbers) as all the surgical subspecialties combined. Of course, if you get a stellar applicant, statistically speaking they're not likely to match with your program, regardless of whether they're dual applying or not, so it probably doesn't affect rank much. Surgery is a little different, because the chances of a resident leaving your program and joining a new surgical subspecialty program that's back-filling (e.g. one of your GS PGY3s leaving and joining a plastics residency as a PGY3) are much higher; you want to recruit people who aren't going to do that.

Interestingly, not only did 76% of derm applicants apply to at least one other specialty, 39% applied to at least two other specialties.


Again, unless you are applying to DR or GS, I don't think anyone is going to suspect you are dual-applying, and thus I don't think anyone is going to care.

 

[7331poas]

Again, unless you are applying to DR or GS, I don't think anyone is going to suspect you are dual-applying, and thus I don't think anyone is going to care.

I mean thats exactly what I said. If you are a rads program I would be pretty suspicious of a "I discovered at the last minute I dont want to do derm"

 

[ortnakas]

Some research is better than no research.

The scenarios OP poses can happen occasionally but not if you do a good enough job writing a statement and crafting an application for the specialty you’ve chosen:
-PDs get that specialties of interest chance. If you’re still working on that research miiiight get some side eye about being backup.
- even if it is a backup, please manage to seem legitimately interested, preferably be legitimately interested so if you end up in it you aren’t miserable)
-if you’re research heavy interviewing at a not research heavy program, don’t talk about it all day to everyone you meet, emphasize that you’re really looking at clinical medicine going forward

 

[mrbreakfast]

I mean thats exactly what I said. If you are a rads program I would be pretty suspicious of a "I discovered at the last minute I dont want to do derm"

Radiology has a 98% match rate for people scoring >220 on step 1 (about the same as IM). It has one of the highest match rates for any specialty; its match rates are about the same as FM and pathology. In terms of applicants per spot, among specialties with >200 applicants, only FM and peds had lower numbers. Half of matched DR residents dual-applied to at least one other specialty.

Of course they'll know you're dual applying and want to do derm. Doesn't change a thing. The numbers clearly show they're not turning people away. If they did, they quite literally wouldn't fill their spots.


General surgery, which is one of the more competitive specialties, is a different story. But only 5% of GS applicants also applied to a different specialty. And while I don't have the numbers to prove it, I'd bet 90-95% of those people are dual applying plastics specifically.

 

[Hzreio]

I asked for feedback from one of the programs I interviewed at and they said that my research being not in the field that I applied to reflected negatively on my application to them.

Yes, I switched late from the field of that research to my current field. No, I did not dual apply.

Yeah I mean if you don’t have field specific research in certain specialties it’s not good. But your app would’ve been worse if you didn’t have any research at all

 

[Hzreio]

I mean, if you have 8 derm papers and a derm sub-I and you are applying rads, how are they supposed to take that?

Better than if you are applying rads with 0 research

 

[Premed2295]

End of 3rd year is not at all a bizarre time to change your mind. What if you fell in love with something during your clinical rotation- that is the point of 3rd year.
If you take several electives in your new interest and take at least 1 research experience I would think its okay.

I agree, but having a crapload of research in a single specialty just to change your mind at the end of MS3 does strike me as a little odd. Cause that person can change their mind again, or worse yet, it may spark a fear that the applicant is applying to both specialties (although applying to both obgyn and optho would be super bizzare LOL). But I'm just a med student so what do I know.....

 

[i-doctor]

Any/all research is good!
Not bizarre at all to like these 2 fields. They were my choice also (ophthalmologist now).
In fact, Ob/gyn and Ophtho are the MOST alike. They are both similar in that you do all the medical care —both medical and surgical—for a specific anatomical region. (Unlike most everything else—
Neurologist/Neurosurgeon, Cardiologist/Cardiac surgeon, Nephrologist/Urologist, etc. where medical/surgery is split).

 

[aldol16]

That doesn't make sense and sounds like the resident is talking out his/her ass. As a medical student, you're expected to be exploring specialties and it's okay to have research in multiple specialties. But don't expect, say, a plastic surgery program to take much notice of your 50 OB publications. You're still going to need to pump out plastic surgery publications to be competitive for plastic surgery. Some people might ask about your OB research and you'll have to explain it as you exploring different options before coming to XXX field, which is okay. Most med students don't come into med school already knowing what they'll specialize in.