Canadian applying to Atlantic Bridge 2014

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Hey Punjabi101,
I'll answer your questions to the best of my ability one by one below.

1. Your high school marks are definitely sufficient to compete with the other high school students. You should also take into consideration the number of applicants with IB or AP courses.

2. I don't think physics 12 is a strict requirement for any of the schools, but taking it would definitely help your application as it is a core science course.

3. RCSI isn't the best Irish school for those wanting to come back and practice in Canada. All of these Irish schools will give you the same advantage. An small exception might be Trinity College which is ranked high amongst international medical schools. Also, RCSI has MUCH higher tuition fees that you should take into account.

4. ADHD is something that will have an effect on your ability to study and it all depends on how you manage it. Ethically speaking you should disclose it on your application as it directly asks about medical conditions that may affect your study. It is entirely up to you.
 
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punjabi101 said:
Hi, I`m a Canadian first high school student I tried applying for 2013 entry for Atlantic bridge but I asked them to late (April 2013) for a application. Anyways my grades for high school are
96- Geography 12
91-97 - English 12 depending if you factor our provincial exam into the mark. My province takes the higher mark (97). Mark with provincial exam is 91.
93- Marketing 12
91- Biology 12
81- Chemistry 12
75- Math 12
I did not take physics 12

I went from a 70 average in gr 11 to those grades above. I was a slacker and then everyone started talking about careers so I panicked and started studying.

Are my high school grades sufficient to get accepted for 6 year programs?

Should i take physics 12, is it a requirement ? Or will i be ok without it?

I know RCSI is the best Ireland school for those wanting to come back and practice in Canada. What are the next best ones? Are there any real stats out there for residency placements?

Does my ADHD play any factor into the application part? Should I disclose it?
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Your scores seem much better in the arts than in the sciences. The good thing about medicine is you basically don't use any math or chemistry or physics although in Ireland 1st year has some courses like that.

To be honest though, that 75 in Math and 81 in Chemistry pretty much rule you out. Ireland and the UK really care to know that you did well on the subject you are going to study. They will place more importance on Biology and Chemistry and possibly other sciences than arts for example. They will look at your Gr. 11 grades and that might damage your application.

Not to mention you never mentioned any extracurriculars. You need extracurriculars to have a good application and importantly health care experience and volunteering.

You said you missed the application deadline for 2013 entry so are you going to university in Canada or taking a gap year?
If so, try summer school to get your grades up in Math and Chemistry. You might be able to get some "private" summer school, since you've probably missed the deadline for the public summer schools.

I really wouldn't say RCSI is the best for returning to Canada. They have more Canadians for sure and cater mostly to Internationals and so you'll probably find getting information about applications and applying as a group easier. Reputation wise there isn't any difference. The match stats really point this out. Other 6 year programs are UCD and NUIG, if cost is important they are also cheaper.
 
@MacNeuro


@Medstart108

Thanks for the replies too, I really appreciate it.
 
punjabi101 said:
My grade 11 grades were garbage but I don't think that will speak much about my current abilities. I mean I'm not a robot that was trained for the sole purpose of becoming a doctor, I grew as a person. Also my ADHD played a big role in keeping my grades down throughout high school. I was not on my medication in grade 12, I was not diagnosed then. My ADHD is also the reason I did better in subjects such as Marketing and English which I find interesting instead of bland subjects such as math and chemistry. Not that I think Ireland will care about that.

I can upgrade right now via my original school district through there online course services here in Canada. I can upgrade math and easily manage a 90 and a redo in chemistry should get me the same. With my ADHD now being suppressed with my medication I can manage.

My only concern is time constraints. I can start these courses right now, it could take about 2-5 months to upgrade, but by then will the deadline for Atlantic Bridge already be over? So will my attempts be fruitless?

Also for E.C's I volunteered at a family doctor for about 5 years (and still at it) since I began high school basically shadowing him. Other than that I did some odd volunteering gigs here and there such as volunteering at a immigration integration place but nothing noteworthy.

I took a year off and was exploring my options for medical school, spending time with family, I built a house with my dad doing some of the contracting and odd jobs 😎. Then I found out about Ireland but by then the 2013 deadline was passed and they would not give me a application. So here I am waiting for the 2014 admission date with a application on hand.🙁
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Ah ok, well your ECs are good enough for application. I think you can give it a shot. When are the deadlines for atlantic bridge?

So you gotta tell me, are you taking a gap year or are you going to university? If you go to university you might as well just go and apply with hopefully good university grades into the 5 year program. You'll save some money and a year.

If you are taking a gap year then you can give it a shot but chances aren't high. You can try and explain your situation it might help no one knows for sure. Its just that with Ireland, they don't have a standardized test. Did you do SAT, AP, IB, A-levels? If you can't offer a standardized test, they need to see the grades. Basically if your science grades are below 85% you pretty much need something to back it up like if you chem is 81% a 5 on AP chem or a 700+ SAT II chem score would cover for it in admissions minds (I used my SAT Bio score to cover for my Bio 12 grade).

If you quickly study like hell and write 2 SAT II exams in Math Level 2 and Chem (AP exams are only once a year in May) in August or September (you can write them in Canada) you can get your results in time for applications. Basically if you can get above 700 that will convince the admissions to overlook your grades. You also have to mention in an email that you are submitting this and give a reason why your grades in math and bio weren't up to snuff.

The reason is, most schools don't trust the provincial high school diploma since its so full of holes and rightly so. Grades aren't standardized and some teachers actually give out 90s whereas others will give out 70s for the same work.

If you are going to apply and you don't have time to do a mark upgrade course or the SAT II then you gotta explain it fully and clearly. A normal application would probably just be rejected. You need to explain your situation.

You have to remember, you can just go to university in Canada, do well get a good GPA and continue doing your volunteering and add some leadership ECs or research and apply to medical school in Canada. Yes Canada is tough to get in, but if you work hard enough its very rewarding.

Btw if you have any more questions, including anything about the SAT IIs you can ask.
 
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punjabi101 said:
So taking a gap year, or a year off, which is going to turn into 2 years off because I missed the 2013 deadline. Anyways if I redo math and redo chem and get say 90 percent in them from my original school district should i be golden? You said ECs are decent, and all grades are fine besides those two. So do I have a shot if I upgrade my grades form 75 and 81 ish to 90 and 90.

As for those SAT, AP IB and everything else like that, I have not taken any of those because none of those were offered in my area. Closest AP offerings was 45 minutes away. As for those tests do you recommend those or just redoing the classes? Are they quite hard compared to a Math 12 and Chem 12 class?

Canadian medical school is not a option, it is not realistic for me because obtaining a 3.8+gpa and jawdropping ECs is not something I think I can 100% obtain.
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If you can upgrade those grades to 90+% and before your application deadline, then yes. I'm just not sure if you go to an upgrade course if the Atlantic Bridge will trust it. If the Atlantic Bridge are saavy enough they'll know that at least in Ontario, there are private schools that give out marks easier than normal schools. Basically, if the course you will take is legitimate then you won't need to be worried.

45 minutes away isn't really that far. It takes me 1 hour and a half to get to my high school one way every day and i did that for 4 years. Can't you get your parents to drive you once to write a seriously important test?

My point is, if you get a SAT II with a score above 700+, its standardized so the AB will be able to trust that score. Either way a 90+ or a 700+ they should all be ok for application.
 
punjabi101 said:
well I will be taking my courses with my actual school district which is run by the ministry of education. So the grades will be no different that my highschool grades.

and yea of course they could drive me that far, but what I was trying to say is during high school I was not made aware of AP, IB and SATs. I had no idea that they even existed, I mean I never went to private school and in my immediate family of farmers I am the first that will be going to medical school.

As for the SATII I'd prefer to just write the course.
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Ok, I think then you should take the courses at your actual school. Thats the best option. Good luck 🙂
 
I will stress to you again and again that RCSI is no way better than any of the other schools. Matching back to Canada is entirely dependent upon your USMLE scores, clinical electives, reference letters and all of these require discipled study and effort. With these you will have the same chance of matching from any of the Irish schools.
 
Thank you for the clarification, it is hard to overcome a bias. But does anyone know why RCSI is home to more Canadian students then any other Irish university? I am just asking out of curiosity.
 
punjabi101 said:
Thank you for the clarification, it is hard to overcome a bias. But does anyone know why RCSI is home to more Canadian students then any other Irish university? I am just asking out of curiosity.
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RCSI takes more Canadian students than other schools, which is why you know people who've matched. The truth is, if you look at the match stats on CISMA http://www.cimsa.ie/Home.html you'll see that RCSI is in the middle of the pack. You'd actually get better name recognition out of a school like UCD or TCD which are both full universities, so more subjects, more students, more recognition and ranked in world rankings.

I would apply to all 3, but if you do get multiple offers, do not choose RCSI. That 150k is a huge amount of debt, that will snowball into 250k by the time you are in any position to pay it off. At the point you are starting a family/buying a new home and you will regret that 250k you will spend an extra 5 years paying off.
 
Let me tell you something, getting a 75 or 80 in one subject is not the end of the world. As you'll notice in the application of atlantic bridge, they dont ask you to specify any individual subjects. They ask for the overall average. They understand the inconsistencies in the Canadian school system and equally weigh extracurricular's, volunteer/work experience and the interview.

All schools in Ireland are equally matched (The match stats vary from year to year however, Irish schools tend to outscore Caribbean and other eastern european nations by a significant margin). One thing you should know about RCSI which is different from other schools is that there are, as mentioned above, MANY more Canadians and Americans. Although it is more expensive, this factors into the community and acclimation of the school. I have a Canadian friend who goes to NUIG (Galway) and he complains that its not as lively as Dublin and he complains that he feels neglected because of his skin tone (He's brown).

Ultimately, it depends on your own financial situation and pro's/con's. I wouldn't advise taking another year off, just apply with what you have.
 
punjabi101 said:
Thanks for the replies guys I really appreciate it. If I get a offer from another school besides RCSI I probably will accept it because that 150k turning into 250k as mentioned is a lot.

SOB --> As for the overall average, how would I calculate my overall average? Is it my top 6 provincially examinable courses or top 4? And wouldn't they still look at the mark and use it against me? As for E.C's I think I have alright E.C's that 5 +years (continuing still) I did at a family doctor. I do not do any sports and have not for a while since elementary school. I can speak the

I have enough time to redo at least 1 course if not 2 to bring my average from around 90ish to 95ish. So I will not take another year off, I will apply to this year. Caribbean is a no go because I have heard of the many failed attempts to get a rez here.

and oh 1 quick question. Is it possible to obtain a dual Canadian-Irish citizenship while studying there over the 6 year course, do i meet the requirements? If so will i be able to apply for reduced tuition while there (like the one locals pay). Are there any complications if come back to complete residency here if I become a dual citizen?
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You can't get reduced tuition because I believe they require you to live there and pay taxes for a number of years prior to university in order to get local tuition (which is government funded). In any case, getting in as a local is harder than as an international precisely because of the fees.

You can become a citizen but you'd have to marry an Irish person, thats the only way. If you want EU citizenship its the same but you'd have to marry someone from the EU. If you get either of those you can stay in Ireland easier.
 
punjabi101 said:
Thanks for the replies guys I really appreciate it. If I get a offer from another school besides RCSI I probably will accept it because that 150k turning into 250k as mentioned is a lot.

SOB --> As for the overall average, how would I calculate my overall average? Is it my top 6 provincially examinable courses or top 4? And wouldn't they still look at the mark and use it against me? As for E.C's I think I have alright E.C's that 5 +years (continuing still) I did at a family doctor. I do not do any sports and have not for a while since elementary school. I can speak the

I have enough time to redo at least 1 course if not 2 to bring my average from around 90ish to 95ish. So I will not take another year off, I will apply to this year. Caribbean is a no go because I have heard of the many failed attempts to get a rez here.

and oh 1 quick question. Is it possible to obtain a dual Canadian-Irish citizenship while studying there over the 6 year course, do i meet the requirements? If so will i be able to apply for reduced tuition while there (like the one locals pay). Are there any complications if come back to complete residency here if I become a dual citizen?
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I calculated my average with the 4 mid-term courses I had (I applied november, first semester of my grade 12 year). Evidently, my average drastically dropped after I applied ahah, I think my final average was about 4-5% lower than my application, I sent my transcripts in late February when my first semester was complete.

They actually reduced the minimum requirement, in past years it was MINIMUM 85% average but in 2013 - present, its been 80% minimum. So I suggest if your overall average (All of your grade 12 grades averaged out). You have a very good shot if you're 85%+.

Unless you or your parent has a EU citizenship, you wont be able to become dual. Also, the application process for locals is a completely different process not dealt with atlantic bridge. You also need standardized grading system (AP, IB, A-levels, etc) if you want to apply as a local.
 
S0B said:
I calculated my average with the 4 mid-term courses I had (I applied november, first semester of my grade 12 year). Evidently, my average drastically dropped after I applied ahah, I think my final average was about 4-5% lower than my application, I sent my transcripts in late February when my first semester was complete.

They actually reduced the minimum requirement, in past years it was MINIMUM 85% average but in 2013 - present, its been 80% minimum. So I suggest if your overall average (All of your grade 12 grades averaged out). You have a very good shot if you're 85%+.

Unless you or your parent has a EU citizenship, you wont be able to become dual. Also, the application process for locals is a completely different process not dealt with atlantic bridge. You also need standardized grading system (AP, IB, A-levels, etc) if you want to apply as a local.
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Are you sure they are willing to accept such low grades? Even McGill requires basically a 90% overall average. Generally, most high schools have bird courses like marketing, international business. I know because i took em haha and found them incredibly easy compared to the core courses like bio, chem, math. So overall average usually is higher than your core average. Generally, minimum is usually lower than the average accepted student.

Either way aim for the best, because since you really don't want to compete in Canadian undergrad, you'd maximize your chances by getting over 90%+
 
Medstart108 said:
Are you sure they are willing to accept such low grades? Even McGill requires basically a 90% overall average. Generally, most high schools have bird courses like marketing, international business. I know because i took em haha and found them incredibly easy compared to the core courses like bio, chem, math. So overall average usually is higher than your core average. Generally, minimum is usually lower than the average accepted student.

Either way aim for the best, because since you really don't want to compete in Canadian undergrad, you'd maximize your chances by getting over 90%+
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It doesn't hurt to apply. To be honest, no one knows how or why each applicant is chosen. Some applicants may have lower grades but florish in extra-curriculars and volunteering. I dont think to become a doctor, one must have perfect/amazing grades, but a sense of balance, an awareness of their external environment and a love for the sciences. Its a known fact that people who tend to excel in med school aren't the super geniuses which achieve high grades but the individuals who manage their time and allow for other activities outside of school.
 
will apply for 2014 year but will try improving grades, if not I will still apply regardless of the situation.
 
punjabi101 said:
will apply for 2014 year but will try improving grades, if not I will still apply regardless of the situation.
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Medstart108 said:
I agree it doesn't hurt to apply.
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Yeah exactly, I applied to atlantic bridge as a backup and because the applications were so early, I didn't even have it completed until late January. But as with any high-demand major in university, you should apply to as many as possible. I probably spent upwards of $800 on standardized tests, books and applications but I don't regret a single penny of that.
 
punjabi101 said:
Its me again! So my situation now and advice please!


So I decided to redo chemistry 12, I am at pace to finish by the end of December. My problem is that the deadline for the application is November 15th.

Atlantic bridge stated that until all supporting documents such as references and transcripts are provided your application is incomplete and although they will accept these documents till April they will not review your application as long as it is incomplete.

So..... if I finish at the end of December I will have waited 2 months after the deadline, possibly lowering my chances of being accepted? Because during that time they will look at other applications and not mine! Should I just apply with my regular grades? I have a overall grade 12 average of around 88.5% right now. A redo in Chem 12 could get me a average of 90 % overall. Is it worth it to risk waiting? Or are solid references from 5 teachers plus a one from a practicing doctor, and a 88.5% average good enough?

As for references I have gotten a yes to reference letters from all of my teachers from high-school even math and chemistry which I didn't do so stellar in! I have also gotten a yes to the doctor I shadowed and volunteered with.

Also should I include my ADHD in my application? Will it benefit me or harm me? Will they say no to my application because of my ADHD or will they be considerate with the difficulties I had to endure while not diagnosed?.
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I recommend waiting until you get your Chem 12 before asking them to review your app. I don't think they will disadvantage you and besides you will complete your application in December not April. Chemistry 12 is probably one of the most important courses on your list anyways and it will improve your average to 90. I say you should reveal ADHD if they ask.
 
hello, I am a current high school student in Canada.
Applied to RCSI dublin, UCC, UCD, NUIG.
6/5 year programs.
Lots of Extra Curricular Activities.

Waiting for my interview from RCSI... what do my chances look like?
 
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Hey 🙂
Applied to: RCSI, UCC, UCD, TCD, NUIG
MCAT: 34
GPA: 3.4
 
HELLO!
Just got accepted to NUIG AND RCSI for the six year program!
If anyone is planning to go into the six year program lets make a facebook group!
I live in Canada btw. Had RCSI interview on the 5th of March , got acceptance letter on the 20th.
Goodluck everyone!
 
has anyone else received an acceptance from rcsi for the six yr program and from Ontario?

thanks!
 
I've just recently been accepted to rcsi as well! 6 yr program but still iffy about whether im gonna let myself go into heaps of debt when i get out of med school yet....
 
srish1 said:
HELLO!
Just got accepted to NUIG AND RCSI for the six year program!
If anyone is planning to go into the six year program lets make a facebook group!
I live in Canada btw. Had RCSI interview on the 5th of March , got acceptance letter on the 20th.
Goodluck everyone!
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There is a Facebook group. When did the NUIG come through? Was it FedEx? Congrats!
 
Just read an official ministry report stating that only 20% of CSAs who apply to Ontario get a spot in Ontario. Quite sobering statistics.
 
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would you mind citing that article? Thanks!
 
Dredge said:
Much appreciated! This is great stuff, but I think it should be clarified that this report is looking at residency matching positions for Ontario only, not all of Canada as you mentioned before. But still, thanks so much!
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Ah yes sorry, i've changed that. You can clearly get the sense on the government report that they are more in favor of true IMGs getting matched as they come up with solutions to make the true IMGs more competitive. This is what is worrying because CSAs really don't have much backing in Canada, if the government decides to introduce clinical electives for IMGs that require you to take a year off that will benefit true IMGs more than CSAs and make it even less likely CSAs match.
 
Medstart108 said:
Ah yes sorry, i've changed that. You can clearly get the sense on the government report that they are more in favor of true IMGs getting matched as they come up with solutions to make the true IMGs more competitive. This is what is worrying because CSAs really don't have much backing in Canada, if the government decides to introduce clinical electives for IMGs that require you to take a year off that will benefit true IMGs more than CSAs and make it even less likely CSAs match.
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This is already in place. True IMG's are competing for positions to work as "Clinical Assistants" at a residency level salary to gain Canadian experience and to increase their residency acceptance chances. Also, if you read the report, the report states that true IMG's had "difficulty performing at the level required". To translate, this means language, attitude, technical competency, etiquette, etc. To understand where I'm coming from, do a volunteer at the Catholic Immigrant Society and help one of the true IMG's write a personal statement or explain the qualification process. You'd know what I'm talking about.

Also, the above has not impacted the match rate for CSA's from reputable countries/medical schools.
 
MikeGir said:
This is already in place. True IMG's are competing for positions to work as "Clinical Assistants" at a residency level salary to gain Canadian experience and to increase their residency acceptance chances. Also, if you read the report, the report states that true IMG's had "difficulty performing at the level required". To translate, this means language, attitude, technical competency, etiquette, etc. To understand where I'm coming from, do a volunteer at the Catholic Immigrant Society and help one of the true IMG's write a personal statement or explain the qualification process. You'd know what I'm talking about.

Also, the above has not impacted the match rate for CSA's from reputable countries/medical schools.
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I was talking more about a clinical elective for people who already graduated from med school. The report states that there isn't one, and that they recommend there to be one.

The number of IMGs are so high that even if most are out of practice and don't have the skills there are enough that are good that about 43% of IMG spots in Ontario go to true IMGs and only 57% go to CSAs.

More and more people are going to Ireland and the UK every year and this will definitely put a strain on the number of people matching in the future.
 
Medstart108 said:
I was talking more about a clinical elective for people who already graduated from med school. The report states that there isn't one, and that they recommend there to be one.

The number of IMGs are so high that even if most are out of practice and don't have the skills there are enough that are good that about 43% of IMG spots in Ontario go to true IMGs and only 57% go to CSAs.

More and more people are going to Ireland and the UK every year and this will definitely put a strain on the number of people matching in the future.
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I'll have to say it bluntly 🙂 , if there were 2 residency spots, and the selection committee has 2 CSA's and 10 true IMG's, the selection committee will select the 2 CSA's and rightfully so. The language proficiency, the reputation of the school where they graduated, the understanding the Canadian culture, etc. If you are in doubt, just volunteer for a day to help a true IMG and you'll see for yourself. Also, Canada Immigration has excluded medical professionals/doctors from the demand list, so no more true IMG's unless they come as a spouse, etc.
 
MikeGir said:
I'll have to say it bluntly 🙂 , if there are 2 spots, and the selection committee has 2 CSA's and 10 true IMG's, the selection committee will select the 2 CSA's and rightfully so. The language proficiency, the reputation of the school where they graduated, the understanding the Canadian culture, etc. If you are in doubt, just volunteer for a day to help a true IMG and you'll see for yourself. Also, Canada Immigration has excluded medical professionals/doctors from the demand list, so no more true IMG's unless they come as a spouse, etc.
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Mike, I want to believe this is true, but the stats are there, if only half of the spots are going to CSAs then clearly program directors are not only picking CSAs they are picking true IMGs as well.

I agree with all your points, CSAs are better in almost every department with the exception of IMGs who have publications and prestigious awards and who graduated from the best medical school in their country (I am worried that these people alone are enough to take less than 50% of the IMG spots). The positive is that if there isn't a new supply of immigrant doctors the problem will hopefully die out in a few years time (I know this sounds quite cruel and selfish of me to say this, I'm sure we all heard stories of doctors driving taxis).

I've heard that prestige between different schools in a country doesn't matter, only the quality or perceived quality of education does. I've had clinical experience with true IMGs and I can see why. There is a cultural difference and sometimes they just couldn't understand us etc.
 
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