Cancellation rate

[numbmd]

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm venting, but I guess I am. We just got through another set of interviews, and I'm frustrated.

Our program had over 600 applications this year. That is a lot of reading. A lot of screening. There were many applicants that were turned away. Many of them were good.

There also were many last minute cancellations. Hey, I don't mind if someone has a change of heart. But canceling the day of, or the week of, just isn't right. Those are spots that someone else could have used. Honestly, it's selfish.

How can programs pay for hotel rooms if a good percentage cancel at the last minute?

And figure this..... someone comes to New York from Philly. sits down in the room for 5 maybe 10 minutes, then leaves?

Do I smell that bad?

I'll check back after my shower.

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[chocomorsel]

Cancelling the day before? Yeah, that's completely inconsiderate. And the week before, also quite short notice because not only does it screw up your schedule but other potential applicants/interviewees as well, since a week is so last minute to plan for. Not to mention ridiculous air faires that late.

Do you think at least two weeks is enough notice? And do you guys get any money back from the hotels or is it a package deal that you have to buy with no chance at any refunds?
Did the interviewee actually walk out on you during the interview? Were you antagonistic/rude, and even then, he could have at least let you know or faked it, assuming you put him up for the night and fed him.
Wow, that's bold. I had a not so exciting experience and I just faked interest throughout two interviews but was itching to get out ASAP and plan on ranking them at the bottom, if at all. No way would I have just left though.

 

[numbmd]

I don't think I was antagonistic or rude. The only different thing I do is I read the whole application through, so when they show up I recognize them by picture and greet them by name. There was an accident on the highway and some applicants called to say they were going to be late. We said we were going to start a little late, but that was it.

 

[amyl]

I agree that last minute cancellations are rude and unacceptable. I just received an interview from a program i had been waiting to hear from (i assume i was on the waitlist) asking me to come this week. It conflicted with another interview I have set at a program I really like but do not think i will match at (they take a lot of their own and are renowed for not going far down their rank list). a lot of people told me: you won't match at the first program anyways you should cancel it. that maybe true but i still didn't think it was right to try to change the first programs date.... maybe the waitlist program will call back and tell me there is another opening later. anyways, i hope i did the right thing....

 

[173291]

I agree that last minute cancellations are rude and unacceptable. I just received an interview from a program i had been waiting to hear from (i assume i was on the waitlist) asking me to come this week. It conflicted with another interview I have set at a program I really like but do not think i will match at (they take a lot of their own and are renowed for not going far down their rank list). a lot of people told me: you won't match at the first program anyways you should cancel it. that maybe true but i still didn't think it was right to try to change the first programs date.... maybe the waitlist program will call back and tell me there is another opening later. anyways, i hope i did the right thing....

That was a very tough decision to make. If it helps at all, I think you did the right thing. Did you tell the second program that you had another interview scheduled? If so, did they offer any other dates?

 

[Curare]

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm venting, but I guess I am. We just got through another set of interviews, and I'm frustrated.

Our program had over 600 applications this year. That is a lot of reading. A lot of screening. There were many applicants that were turned away. Many of them were good.

There also were many last minute cancellations. Hey, I don't mind if someone has a change of heart. But canceling the day of, or the week of, just isn't right. Those are spots that someone else could have used. Honestly, it's selfish.

How can programs pay for hotel rooms if a good percentage cancel at the last minute?

And figure this..... someone comes to New York from Philly. sits down in the room for 5 maybe 10 minutes, then leaves?

Do I smell that bad?

I'll check back after my shower.

I am on the interview trail now for one month straight. About half the interviews I went to someone either didn't show up or canceled the day before. The Depts are left footing the bill. I think rude is the best word to describe it, plus it not only looks bad on the individual but the school from which they came. One PD was so distraught he said he was going to call the school from which they came and let them know that if another one of their students do this they will not be accepting students from their school. I think that is the way to go. Someone needs to teach proper respect.

 

[amyl]

They mentioned their other interview dates and offered to put my name on a waitlist for an opening on another date. So hopefully someone will cancel and something will open up. If not, I guess it wasn't meant to be.
I did not tell them i had another interview. I just told them that I couldn't rearrange my schedule on such short notice but was very interested in interviewing with them and to please keep in touch in case anything else opened up.
They contacted me on friday for interviews on weds and thurs -- so i guess they got last minute cancellations too. wish people would cancel a little further in advance....

 

[Salt Creep]

One PD was so distraught he said he was going to call the school from which they came and let them know that if another one of their students do this they will not be accepting students from their school. I think that is the way to go. Someone needs to teach proper respect.

Our school considers this a very serious professionalism violation, because it has happened in the past that somebody didn't show, and the school got a call saying no more applicants from here would be considered. Now, if one of our students fails to show for an interview, they buy themself a one-on-one appointment with the Dean of the school to discuss professionalism.

The flip-side to that is if a program records an incorrect date for an applicant. This happened to me this year - a program had me scheduled for 3 weeks earlier than they had told me on the phone. I was able to go to it, even on very short notice when they confirmed it, but if I hadn't been able to - I would have been up a creek. We're very strongly encouraged to have email confirmation of all dates - so I hate it when programs don't send me that automatically.

I'm not at all saying that's what happened with the no-shows that begat this thread; just that it's not the applicants 100% of the time. I agree completely that it's very wrong to cancel last minute or worse, just not show up. At least the PD's can know in those cases that is one person they can be glad they won't be ranking now & wouldn't have been fooled by someone with a silver tongue but lacking character and integrity.

 

[Faebinder]

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm venting, but I guess I am. We just got through another set of interviews, and I'm frustrated.

Our program had over 600 applications this year. That is a lot of reading. A lot of screening. There were many applicants that were turned away. Many of them were good.

There also were many last minute cancellations. Hey, I don't mind if someone has a change of heart. But canceling the day of, or the week of, just isn't right. Those are spots that someone else could have used. Honestly, it's selfish.

How can programs pay for hotel rooms if a good percentage cancel at the last minute?

And figure this..... someone comes to New York from Philly. sits down in the room for 5 maybe 10 minutes, then leaves?

Do I smell that bad?

I'll check back after my shower.

Cancelling the day really really sucks. I agree.

Cancelling the week of? It's not too bad. Your list of applicants is endless. I am sure you can buzz someone else to come instantly that week. He might not be the 99/99/99 you want but at least he actually wants to be there and is willing enough to come this week on short notice and you know he is going to rank you high.

 

[numbmd]

Generally, I try to personally call each applicant before the interview. It helps prevent against no shows. It also shows we do things a little differently.

Calling up their schools, gee, that sounds pretty harsh. Maybe it could spark some professionalism lectures.

There should be a solution.

 

[mcfreak]

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm venting, but I guess I am. We just got through another set of interviews, and I'm frustrated.

Our program had over 600 applications this year. That is a lot of reading. A lot of screening. There were many applicants that were turned away. Many of them were good.

There also were many last minute cancellations. Hey, I don't mind if someone has a change of heart. But canceling the day of, or the week of, just isn't right. Those are spots that someone else could have used. Honestly, it's selfish.

How can programs pay for hotel rooms if a good percentage cancel at the last minute?

And figure this..... someone comes to New York from Philly. sits down in the room for 5 maybe 10 minutes, then leaves?

Do I smell that bad?

I'll check back after my shower.

Sorry, that must be frustrating. It would be nice if these people thought of the program, the interviewers, and the other applicants that would like to pick up a few more interviews... Like me!

 

[proman]

I interviewed at a school where they had one of their own students no-show. I'd hate to hear that conversation with the dean.

 

[chocomorsel]

Just called UAB today since I'm on the waitlist to see if any cancellations had started yet. They say that they had one cancel for yesterday (monday) but didn't let them know until the friday before. Dude, I had nothing yesterday. I could have taken that spot!!!! Damn, damn, damn. But the lady assured me that cancellations are slowly gonna start coming in so I will keep my fingers crossed. I already have a sweet TY planned hopefully because they are in my top 3.
Choco

 

[amyl]

the interview i was just at had three no shows...two called later with good reasons but the third just didn't show.
the program coordinator mentioned that she had stopped looking at applications in mid october and had 250 apps that had not even been looked at yet nor probably would be...
another program i am on the waitlist for stopped looking at apps around the middle of september (which i missed ;-( -- so third years: get your app in early!!!!
a PD just told me: go on more than 5 interviews otherwise you might sell yourself short or not get a good feel for what you want... but don't go on more than 10 as you don't need to and will be burned out and not interview well anyways.

 

[Coastie]

Any thoughts on the competitiveness of the applicant pool, and thus, the specialty overall this year?

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm venting, but I guess I am. We just got through another set of interviews, and I'm frustrated.

Our program had over 600 applications this year. That is a lot of reading. A lot of screening. There were many applicants that were turned away. Many of them were good.

There also were many last minute cancellations. Hey, I don't mind if someone has a change of heart. But canceling the day of, or the week of, just isn't right. Those are spots that someone else could have used. Honestly, it's selfish.

How can programs pay for hotel rooms if a good percentage cancel at the last minute?

And figure this..... someone comes to New York from Philly. sits down in the room for 5 maybe 10 minutes, then leaves?

Do I smell that bad?

I'll check back after my shower.

 

[numbmd]

Seems very competitive this year, with over 600 applications for only 4 spots here. I'd like to think it's because its we're doing a good job here @ St. Barnabas. (we do have a really good program, if I say so myself) But it may just be due to market forces. You have to check the numbers released by the NRMP after it's over.

Competitiveness is much less of a factor when it comes to an individual. If you try really hard, and you have aptitude, you'll get a spot. The actual location is less important than just getting in. Five years from now it won't matter where you trained. Most of it depends on what you put into it.

 

[amyl]

Five years from now it won't matter where you trained. Most of it depends on what you put into it.

really?!?!?!? I have a hard time believing this. I have rotated at three programs and interviewed at one other. There is a HUGE difference in the training amongst all of them and a HUGE difference in the sophistication of the cases, residents, readings, etc. example: one lectures from baby miller to CA1s, the other uses big miller. that is a huge difference!
I just can't believe that 5 years after residency is over that it won't matter if i train at a huge name workhorse program with all the fellowships in house vs. a small semi-vacation program without fellowships.

 

[Trisomy13]

really?!?!?!? I have a hard time believing this. I have rotated at three programs and interviewed at one other. There is a HUGE difference in the training amongst all of them and a HUGE difference in the sophistication of the cases, residents, readings, etc. example: one lectures from baby miller to CA1s, the other uses big miller. that is a huge difference!
I just can't believe that 5 years after residency is over that it won't matter if i train at a huge name workhorse program with all the fellowships in house vs. a small semi-vacation program without fellowships.

some things to remember...

i don't know any "semi-vacation" programs out there.

huge name workhorse program often has the same relative case loads as a smaller name teaching hospital.

fellowships = fellows = people taking cases you might otherwise see. no peds fellows at my program means guess who gets to do some tough peds cases as a CA-1? experience is key.

i know some programs who don't even do OB until their second year because they have an abundance of residents and an OB fellow. I've got my numbers for epidurals already as a CA-1 and it's December.

lecturing from baby miller does seem a little ... basic. unless it's during an orientatiion or something.

i'm not trying to say a big program is worse, by any stretch, just that there are pros and cons. i struggled with this concept when i was interviewing because some of the programs i connected with on a gut-feeling level were not the big brand name places, and i was trying to justify ranking them ahead of the big boys. i left some of those thinking that they have a big name, put on a spectacular interview day, but in the end had more layers of BS to wade through before i could get to what i wanted - hands on clinical experience. on the other hand, if you are dead set on being the next great academic author, you might want to hang around the big name programs.


in the end, i strongly agree with the poster who said that 5 years out, when you are practicing, the only thing that will matter is if you were happy enough at your program to focus on learning what you need to learn. go with your gut feeling.

 

[numbmd]

Amyl, you don't realize it because you're on the wrong side of it. We have 50 people in our group and I see it on a daily basis. Your choice is important while you attend residency, but not much after it. It's how much work you put into it while you are out.

My best friend went to Penn State for undergrad, Ross U in the caribbean, and trained @ St. Barnabas. He is widely considered better than most of the Ivy leaguers at our place. That is because he still reads and lectures the residents.

I don't know what you mean by semi vacation small program. We have a small program but it is by no means easy. Our residents read Big miller from cover to cover each year while in the program. Most want to quit in the first year. Most can pass the boards after that year however.

Honestly, what you want is enough cases, time to read on your own, and a place you can be happy at for the next four years. It's not that earth shattering of a choice. Your place of residency is far far less important than your choice of specialty.

 

[anesguy1012]

This situation is just a clear lack of consideration and respect for other human beings. It's sad that these students are in the medical profession. Canceling the day of or walking out of an interview for no apparent reason is blatant disregard for the effort put in by the program towards that candidate. Some of the medical students are excessively arrogant and crass lately. It's no wonder I heard from the dean of student affairs that professionalism is rising to the top of the selection criteria at many programs, almost surpassing grades, board scores, other stats. The humility and kindness towards others is quite necessary in our profession! I didn't believe the situation was as bad as I had heard, but your situation is proof that character (or lack thereof) is of the utmost importance when selecting residents.

It must be a difficult situation when you invite certain people that you later regret and then wonder about those that weren't offered. It's a tough job, indeed. I wish you the best.

However, hearing that your residents want to quit after the first year is discouraging!

 

[numbmd]

Well, they don't feel like that all the time. (sheepishly) I can get defensive too. Actually they tell me that they are pretty happy most of the time.

I tend to get pretty involved with my residents and was concerned, but they all told me to relax. It's just a culture shock thing.

 

[numbmd]

I guess one of the questions is how many days in advance is it OK to cancel? Better yet, how much lead time is appropriate to be asked to come to a program? I don't like the idea of asking someone to come in tomorrow, or even a few days. I think if it is a cancellation in less than 1 week, that spot will go unfilled.

Do programs ever cancel the interviews of the applicants? Do they say "Sorry, now that we see your step 2 you don't need to come?" I don't know, are the programs just as guilty as the applicants?

I try to call my applicants before they come in to interview, to get them psyched, to break the ice. I'm realizing it was stupid of me to call some applicants from my home, but I did. An applicant calls me back @ 11:30 pm. She tells me she isn't going to show to the interview. I say OK, but that it was a shame because I was looking forward to meeting her. I told her all the things that impressed me on her application, that she came from haiti, was homeless at one time, and on and on. She tells me on the phone that she had reconsidered and would like to come to a later interview. Guess what? No show. I probably should have let her go on the first time.

Why do I care? Why does it seem to bother me? Does any of this posting make a difference? I thought that could get in touch with the mindset of the people who are applying to our program. I thought I could change our approach to better appeal to our customer, the applicant. I don't think I am any closer to figuring this out.

 

[amyl]

Some of the medical students are excessively arrogant and crass lately.

I have been at a few interviews now where i want to tell the pd i am interested in the program as long as you don't take that guy (or girl).

some people i have met on the interview trail are great...
but some...... arrogant and pretentious


....and some with bad table manners (sorry, pet peeve).

 

[bnb93]

From what I have noticed medical students seem to be applying to more programs. This may make programs think there is a larger pool of applicants, and that applicants are more competitive. What ends up happening to a certain degree is that all the programs want to interview the same applicants. This then hurts them on interview day and even on match day. We all know there are about 50 "top 10" programs. Each year several of them are in the scramble, in part due to there lack of inviting and interviewing enough applicants. Just as applicants need to have back-up programs (ie "less competitive"), it would be advisable for programs to invite and interview a certain amount of "less competitive" applicants.

 

[Gern Blansten]

From what I have noticed medical students seem to be applying to more programs. This may make programs think there is a larger pool of applicants, and that applicants are more competitive. What ends up happening to a certain degree is that all the programs want to interview the same applicants. This then hurts them on interview day and even on match day. We all know there are about 50 "top 10" programs. Each year several of them are in the scramble, in part due to there lack of inviting and interviewing enough applicants. Just as applicants need to have back-up programs (ie "less competitive"), it would be advisable for programs to invite and interview a certain amount of "less competitive" applicants.

I totally agree with you. It makes me nervous when every candidate is someone who I think has a good chance to be number one on the list of every program that they interview at.

I think the overall applications numbers are similar to last year. I think the top tier candidate numbers are about the same as well. I suspect there will be plenty of spots to go around and that the unmatched candidates this year will be similar to the numbers from last year.

With regards to cancellation time, I think 2 weeks is the minimum that candidates should do. But certainly cancel as soon as you know you won't be attending the interview. It just benefits everyone involved and allows ample time to fill the slot with another candidate.

 

[TaiShan]

What is needed to be done is to increase the application fee after 20 programs. Right now, it costs around $2500 to apply to every anesthesia program.

The better way is to increase fee to, like , $100 per program after 20, $200 after 30, and $500 after 50. I bet it will decrease the applicants per program significantly, therefore, reduce the no-show rate.

 

[amyl]

a program coordinator said that the numbers are up from last year: last year total applicants at the end 3300. this year so far 3450 thus far. she said a few more will trickle in late as people decide anesthesiology is for them.

she also said that the quality of the applicants is better.

 

[Dr Serenity]

What is needed to be done is to increase the application fee after 20 programs. Right now, it costs around $2500 to apply to every anesthesia program.

The better way is to increase fee to, like , $100 per program after 20, $200 after 30, and $500 after 50. I bet it will decrease the applicants per program significantly, therefore, reduce the no-show rate.

Only one problem with that...there are other specialties (Derm, for instance) where applicants have to apply to 50, 60, or more programs to even have a prayer of matching. I understand where you're coming from, but I think increasing the already absurd application fee would only do more harm than good for medical student applicants overall.

 

[mcfreak]

I don't like the idea of asking someone to come in tomorrow, or even a few days. I think if it is a cancellation in less than 1 week, that spot will go unfilled.

As a student, if I was really interested in the program, I would be willing to come in within 2 days.

 

[lord_jeebus]

a program coordinator said that the numbers are up from last year: last year total applicants at the end 3300. this year so far 3450 thus far. she said a few more will trickle in late as people decide anesthesiology is for them.

she also said that the quality of the applicants is better.

That's odd, Charting Outcomes in the Match reports 1581 applicants last year, including foreign applicants. There were 1334 positions offered in the match, so over 3000 applicants seems unbelievably high (and would create competition on the level of derm and integrated plastics).

 

[amyl]

That's odd, Charting Outcomes in the Match reports 1581 applicants last year, including foreign applicants. There were 1334 positions offered in the match, so over 3000 applicants seems unbelievably high (and would create competition on the level of derm and integrated plastics).

i don't know that is just what she said. at the time it seemed high to me as well. but then she said her program got 900 applications and thus figured they were getting applications from 25% of the applicant pool -- so i am pretty sure i didn't misunderstand her. someone asked her early in the interview day how many applicants there were this year and last and she said she didn't know but knew where to find the information and would look it up an get back to us. later in the interview day wrap up that is what she said....

 

[TaiShan]

Only one problem with that...there are other specialties (Derm, for instance) where applicants have to apply to 50, 60, or more programs to even have a prayer of matching. I understand where you're coming from, but I think increasing the already absurd application fee would only do more harm than good for medical student applicants overall.

I do not think it increase your chance that much by applying 50 programs instead of 30 programs. Every program is pretty much looking at the same thing. It actually saves applcants money. If you are marginal and it costs your $500 to send an ERAS app to MGH/Vanderbilt, you probably won't do it. However, at $25 per pop, many people just like 'what the heck". I mean, some ppl got 70+ interview invites???!!!!

Right now, even some small program has to screen 500+ applicants for their 5 spots. Come on, is anestheisa that competitive? Last I checked, USMG seniors have 95+% success rate every year.

 

[Tenesma]

i think hawaii residency programs had a LOT of these issues where people took the free flights and then basically enjoyed their time in hawaii (and either were no shows or showed up for 1/2 hour and then disappeared)....

so they stopped paying for things

i think cancellation rates will go down when people have to come on their own dime ---- or if you consider what univ. of colorado did a while back (don't know if they still do it)... they reimbursed flight and hotel at the END of the interview after you presented the flight stubs and hotel receipts (i got a check 4-6 weeks later in reimbursement from the dept.)

 

[Dr Serenity]

I do not think it increase your chance that much by applying 50 programs instead of 30 programs. Every program is pretty much looking at the same thing. It actually saves applcants money. If you are marginal and it costs your $500 to send an ERAS app to MGH/Vanderbilt, you probably won't do it. However, at $25 per pop, many people just like 'what the heck". I mean, some ppl got 70+ interview invites???!!!!

Right now, even some small program has to screen 500+ applicants for their 5 spots. Come on, is anestheisa that competitive? Last I checked, USMG seniors have 95+% success rate every year.

Not trying to get into an argument here...just trying to make the point that whatever ERAS does to encourage applicants to apply to fewer programs will affect not only anesthesia applicants but EVERYONE ELSE as well. For dermatology applicants, applying to 50 rather than "only" 30 may well increase their chances of getting interviews and/or matching. That was my point.

I understand what you're saying, however about small programs screening TONS of applicants...I think that us as applicants keep hearing that anesthesia is getting more and more competitive, so the chances that we overapply go up substantially. It's a problem that both programs and applicants have to deal with...I'll agree with you on that.

 

[Dr Serenity]

i think hawaii residency programs had a LOT of these issues where people took the free flights and then basically enjoyed their time in hawaii (and either were no shows or showed up for 1/2 hour and then disappeared)....

so they stopped paying for things

i think cancellation rates will go down when people have to come on their own dime ---- or if you consider what univ. of colorado did a while back (don't know if they still do it)... they reimbursed flight and hotel at the END of the interview after you presented the flight stubs and hotel receipts (i got a check 4-6 weeks later in reimbursement from the dept.)

I think you're right...I think we're still seeing residual effects from the mid-90s when gas programs had to go all out just to get people with a pulse to apply. Now that anesthesia's getting more popular (and competitive), I can definitely see more and more free hotel rooms, etc. going away.

 

[halflife94]

Realize though that having people pay 100 dollars a program or something would require anesthesia to have its own match. ERAS sets the cost per application. Maybe if the problem gets bad enough you could see an independent match but I don't really think this is a possibility. I think pretty much what is happening is that if you are an average applicant you are getting a decent number of interviews but they are the "local" programs for you. I think programs this year are waiting for students to email them or call to express some interest because thats the only way you can separate the masses. PS I dont think this applies if you have some ridiculous board score or a letter from miller, barash etc.

 

[Med0000]

Why do I care? Why does it seem to bother me? Does any of this posting make a difference? I thought that could get in touch with the mindset of the people who are applying to our program. I thought I could change our approach to better appeal to our customer, the applicant. I don't think I am any closer to figuring this out.

I am embarrassed at what people write on this message board when they think they're anonymous. You seem to be a genuine person. Please don't think that all applicants think, act, or feel this way. Some people can be very rude and pretentious on this board and during this process. This match seems to bring out the best BS-ing abilities from applicants. It's quite sad, yet they call it "playing the game."

It's common sense not to cancel an interview the week of the interview. I don't know what else to say about my colleagues. The majority of us hold ourselves to a high standard of professionalism and would never think of doing this.

 

[Dr Serenity]

Realize though that having people pay 100 dollars a program or something would require anesthesia to have its own match. ERAS sets the cost per application.

That was my point to begin with. Thanks for wording it much better than in my posts concerning the subject.

 

[Dr Serenity]

I guess one of the questions is how many days in advance is it OK to cancel? Better yet, how much lead time is appropriate to be asked to come to a program? I don't like the idea of asking someone to come in tomorrow, or even a few days. I think if it is a cancellation in less than 1 week, that spot will go unfilled.

My opinion is that you need to give at least 2 weeks notice if you're going to cancel. Period. Anything less is unacceptable and unprofessional. Program coordinators work very hard and the programs often spend lots of money to get applicants to come. Only exceptions to the 2-week rule are in cases of emergency or in cases where travel gets @#$#'ed up by weather, flight cancellations, etc. At least that's my opinion...

As far as what to do if an applicant decides to cancel within 2 weeks or no-show...try calling applicants on the waiting list...I'm sure there are those interested enough to show up with very little notice, despite the inconvenience...

Do programs ever cancel the interviews of the applicants? Do they say "Sorry, now that we see your step 2 you don't need to come?" I don't know, are the programs just as guilty as the applicants?

I haven't heard of this happening...that's a scary thought if there are programs that actually do that...

I try to call my applicants before they come in to interview, to get them psyched, to break the ice. I'm realizing it was stupid of me to call some applicants from my home, but I did. An applicant calls me back @ 11:30 pm. She tells me she isn't going to show to the interview. I say OK, but that it was a shame because I was looking forward to meeting her. I told her all the things that impressed me on her application, that she came from haiti, was homeless at one time, and on and on. She tells me on the phone that she had reconsidered and would like to come to a later interview. Guess what? No show. I probably should have let her go on the first time.

I commend you on what you do...I'd be impressed if an attending or resident called me before coming in to interview. Just keep in mind that you can't be responsible for how others respond to what you do.

Why do I care? Why does it seem to bother me? Does any of this posting make a difference? I thought that could get in touch with the mindset of the people who are applying to our program. I thought I could change our approach to better appeal to our customer, the applicant. I don't think I am any closer to figuring this out.

I completely understand your frustration, and appreciate you posting your thoughts. Hopefully this will only reinforce the concept that applicants need to practice common courtesy during this process.

 

[anestheticman]

I for one really appreciated the call, the attention, and loved the program. Just wondering when we get to hear back about the second interview

 

[numbmd]

I for one really appreciated the call, the attention, and loved the program. Just wondering when we get to hear back about the second interview

Dude, give us a ring. Ask to speak to me.

 

[ozzie20]

Why do I care? Why does it seem to bother me? Does any of this posting make a difference? I thought that could get in touch with the mindset of the people who are applying to our program. I thought I could change our approach to better appeal to our customer, the applicant. I don't think I am any closer to figuring this out.

Maybe go back to your former applicants and see who the stars are in your program now in terms of not only board success, but just being good people in general. Are the best ones those that got the highest scores and had the most unique backgrounds?

 

[jennyboo]

It's too bad about all the cancellations. :-(

From my experience as a former applicant, I can say that students drum up a lot of hype amongst themselves with the word-of-mouth story that the field is getting more competitive, they have to apply to lots of programs, etc. They schedule themselves a block of time for interviews which may involve doing them all in a month, and they overcommit to many interviews "just in case." Then, inevitably after multiple interviews and maybe some snowstorms, students become fatigued and find they just "can't" drag themselves out to yet another interview which was, admittedly, not high enough on their priority list to make it worthwhile to drag themselves out to attend. You are unfortunately fighting not just rudeness and inconsiderateness, but a more powerful hurdle: exhaustion.

Unfortunately, interview burnout is very difficult to change. :-( One thing I do remember is that none of the programs offering me interviews said a single word about what is an appropriate time to cancel. I think this should be stated in those interview invites from the beginning (i.e. "If you need to cancel, please give us TWO WEEKS / THREE WEEKS / etc notice so we can invite other applicants.") The fact that few programs bother to inform students of this means that students may not be entirely aware of exactly how much time is needed to rearrange the schedule and invite someone else to fill that interview slot.

 

[ozzie20]

I have to agree with the word of mouth spread of fear. Most student's i've spoken to have applied to at least 30 programs, and are going on 20+ interviews. I would have to say they're the more competitive applicants as well, and they plan on ranking them all not really out of necessity but out of fear of not matching.

I don't think the number of applicants has gone up significantly, but I do think the number of applications each student sends out has gone up drastically.

 

[Dr Serenity]

It's too bad about all the cancellations. :-(

From my experience as a former applicant, I can say that students drum up a lot of hype amongst themselves with the word-of-mouth story that the field is getting more competitive, they have to apply to lots of programs, etc. They schedule themselves a block of time for interviews which may involve doing them all in a month, and they overcommit to many interviews "just in case." Then, inevitably after multiple interviews and maybe some snowstorms, students become fatigued and find they just "can't" drag themselves out to yet another interview which was, admittedly, not high enough on their priority list to make it worthwhile to drag themselves out to attend. You are unfortunately fighting not just rudeness and inconsiderateness, but a more powerful hurdle: exhaustion.

Unfortunately, interview burnout is very difficult to change. :-( One thing I do remember is that none of the programs offering me interviews said a single word about what is an appropriate time to cancel. I think this should be stated in those interview invites from the beginning (i.e. "If you need to cancel, please give us TWO WEEKS / THREE WEEKS / etc notice so we can invite other applicants.") The fact that few programs bother to inform students of this means that students may not be entirely aware of exactly how much time is needed to rearrange the schedule and invite someone else to fill that interview slot.

Hmmm...good points. Didn't really think about that with my previous "high horse" post...

 

[amyl]

what?!?! people are going on 20+ interviews? I cannot imagine having the time or $ or energy to go on that many!

 

[anesguy1012]

As a student, if I was really interested in the program, I would be willing to come in within 2 days.

I completely agree with this. There many people who would come up with funds and time for programs they would like to attend. Certainly, the candidates would appreciate what little time they have to make it to an interview than not being invited at all. Why would a program director rather leave the spot unfilled than attempt to invite another candidate who would be appreciative of the opportunity? Quit trying to read the minds of people! Two days notice can be done, albeit at astronomical costs (unless you belong to a points/mileage program which I joined in preparation for interviewing season).

 

[numbmd]

Thanks for the advice jennyboo. I will post an appropriate cancellation cut off.
My first post in this thread concerned people who cancelled the day before or no shows.

Most cancellations are last minute, and cite family emergencies. There seems to be an inordinate amount of emergencies among applicants. Even more curious is the fact they don't want to reschedule.

I wish I kept numbers, my coordinator used to just delete the applicant after the call. Now we are saving them. Maybe we can see if there is a pattern.

 

[Salt Creep]

Without a doubt, there are some rather unprofessional folks claiming emergencies when none exist. I actually just had an interview yesterday, and my grandmother passed away at 0400 the morning of the interview, after starting into decompensated CHF the day before. I didn't mention it to any of my interviewers - I was going to be leaving to come back that afternoon already; would a couple hours truly make any difference at that point? And I saw no reason to even mention it and bring a somber mood to the whole thing.

This was with my #1 choice & I had no desire to cancel, but my point is that a true family emergency - requiring one's presence - isn't that common. But it does happen some, and anyone who makes it up as an excuse just hurts legitimate people by casting that shadow of doubt on the veracity of their story.

 

[173291]

Without a doubt, there are some rather unprofessional folks claiming emergencies when none exist. I actually just had an interview yesterday, and my grandmother passed away at 0400 the morning of the interview, after starting into decompensated CHF the day before. I didn't mention it to any of my interviewers - I was going to be leaving to come back that afternoon already; would a couple hours truly make any difference at that point? And I saw no reason to even mention it and bring a somber mood to the whole thing.

This was with my #1 choice & I had no desire to cancel, but my point is that a true family emergency - requiring one's presence - isn't that common. But it does happen some, and anyone who makes it up as an excuse just hurts legitimate people by casting that shadow of doubt on the veracity of their story.

I am sorry for your loss.