Can't stand your classmates?

[PL198]

I have literally never met someone who used the word privilege in the context of social issues who I thought was sincere. How you are comparing tuskegee to SJW goals I will never understand.

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[Levo]

This is where the "no true scottsman" fallacy is going to be played.

SJWs are the worst people on earth. 99% of them are privileged college children.

It is widely known that you have to have suffered from a misfortune yourself in order to want to help others who are suffering from that misfortune. Anyone who says otherwise is just a poser. This is why the top heme/onc fellowships like Dana Farber and MSK have a long tradition of only accepting cancer survivors, and why the average age of geriatrics fellows is 72.

 

[ChemEngMD]

I have literally never met someone who used the word privilege in the context of social issues who I thought was sincere. How you are comparing tuskegee to SJW goals I will never understand.

If you really can't understand how atrocities done to certain groups in the past ripple out to many of the current social justice issues in the present, I don't know what to tell you. I feel like that's pretty basic reasoning that anyone who is intelligent/empathetic enough to find themselves in medical school should be able to comprehend.

 

[PL198]

If you really can't understand how atrocities done to certain groups in the past ripple out to many of the current social justice issues in the present, I don't know what to tell you. I feel like that's pretty basic reasoning that anyone who is intelligent/empathetic enough to find themselves in medical school should be able to comprehend.

yes because infecting people with a deadly disease, without their permission, knowledge or treatment is certainly comparable to being able to hold up traffic with protests, scream and act like children towards college professors and hold safe spaces.

yes, I guess I am just not intelligent or empathetic enough to understand that comparison.

there's a difference between liberal social views and being a SJW, which involves pushing those views to nth degree, while simultaneously acting like a child

 

[aalamruad]

Merry Christmas y'all, let's relax and enjoy time with loved ones, and come back on the 26th to yell at each other about issues that we have the good fortune and luxury of being passionate about

 

[Taco Time]

yes because infecting people with a deadly disease, without their permission, knowledge or treatment is certainly comparable to being able to hold up traffic with protests, scream and act like children towards college professors and hold safe spaces.

yes, I guess I am just not intelligent or empathetic enough to understand that comparison.

there's a difference between liberal social views and being a SJW, which involves pushing those views to nth degree, while simultaneously acting like a child

This is really well put, and I don't get how this thread got so haywire. It's okay to stand up for the little guy and try and voice his plight to the world in hopes of making everyone's life better. Physicians should advocate for patients--without a question. It is not okay to use opinions to shut down an opposition to an otherwise legitimate discussion. These kids that are babied in universities can't have a discussion with other people, which is sad, and these are the SJW that everyone in this thread is referring to. No one here is conotating Mother Theresa's good deeds to the albatross that is the SJW crowd at universities or in Portland that looted and ransacked their own city for weeks in November.

 

[ChemEngMD]

yes because infecting people with a deadly disease, without their permission, knowledge or treatment is certainly comparable to being able to hold up traffic with protests, scream and act like children towards college professors and hold safe spaces.

yes, I guess I am just not intelligent or empathetic enough to understand that comparison.

there's a difference between liberal social views and being a SJW, which involves pushing those views to nth degree, while simultaneously acting like a child

Obviously we had a miscommunication here. I personally think that "safe spaces" are a stupid idea too in >95% of instances and I think it's counterproductive when protests turn into riots.

But how don't you see the direct connection between black bodies being treated as disposable in the form of slavery, the Tuskegee trials, and the insane rates at which we jail black people and how a cop can get away with the murder of a black man? You don't see the direct connection there? It's all a reflection of the same narrative.

How is recognizing how that narrative plays into the way in which people access health acting like a child?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

The vibe I get from a lot of you who have such hatred for "SJWs" is that you feel as though these individuals are using their particular causes as a means of either proving their intellect/moral superiority or getting bonus points for things like med school admissions or residency matching.

It seems that a lot of you see the world in a hyper competitive, black and white sort of way. You act as though there is no possible way that the people who discuss and are passionate about these topics and these populations could possibly ACTUALLY care about them. You act as though they are using it as a leg up on you and you are bitter about it because it's the type of stuff that liberal admissions counselors and program directors want to see.

Now stop for a second and try NOT to see the world through your gunner eyes. Use that EQ you feigned back during med school interviews.

People are genuinely passionate about social justice issues. Many of them are actually doing things about these issues, even if they aren't flaunting it for you to see. Most don't have ulterior motives. They genuinely care about these issues and try to live them every day. That's why they bring them up in "every conversation." Because social injustices continue. It's not to make you feel dumb, morally inferior, or bad for being from a majority culture. The purpose is to try and spread the word on these issues so that you can no longer live in your bubble and pretend they don't exist. If I bring up the lens of viewing a particular issue from my cultural view point, it is to try and stretch your mind and think about things differently. This is how you become a better thinker and a better physician. This is why medical schools and residency programs want diverse populations. If you are able to simply create your own self serving bubble and then live in it, when you go to talk to that patient who comes from a "vulnerable" population you won't understand their perspective. That's why people bring these issues up, so you can understand your patients better.

If a patient is acting mistrusting of the medical establishment and isn't willing to sign the consent on a particular procedure, instead of looking at them as ungrateful, uneducated, or misinformed, you can learn to understand the context of that opinion. For instance the Tuskegee Syphilis Study or Contraceptive Trials in Puerto Rico that left many women sterile or forced sterilization of poor white and black folks in the South for generations that was done with doctors' orders. Yes, these things are history but our history continues to influence our present.

And as far as privileged college kids go: talk is cheap, but anybody who is willing to exercise their privilege to bring up and fight for perspectives and issues from those who don't have the same agency and voice, deserves to, at minimal, be respected. There are far too many people who are willing to sit quietly with their privilege and ride that thing out until their dying day. The people who are willing to put that privilege to use (actively, I'm not talking about people tweeting or just posting links on Facebook) to try and amplify the voice of others have my respect.

No, you don't seem to get it like the rest of SJWs. We don't care why you're doing it or even if you are genuine or not. What we want is for you to stop because you've become increasingly annoying and harassing to anyone that falls outside your distorted perception of morality. Your tactics only serve to alienate you.

Trust me, most of us "get" why people can be distrustful of the medical establishment, and so we put effort into accommodating people. You know what doesn't work? When SJWs try to scream you down with "check your privilege," "learn what mansplaining is and stop it!" and calling any interaction where a minority is not put on a pedestal, racism. It's just like the election. Same states that voted for 8 years of a black guy that now voted for Trump have been re-labelled as "hateful" and "racist" and "a 'white-lash' against a black president." You guys are evidently acting like children every time you don't get what you want, so no, you're not some noble crusader that's using their privilege to amplify the voice of others not respected; which mind you is really ironic of you SJWs to basically proclaim yourselves saviors of the marginalized. Isn't that like racist and you should check your privilege?

 

[ChemEngMD]

No, you don't seem to get it like the rest of SJWs. We don't care why you're doing it or even if you are genuine or not. What we want is for you to stop because you've become increasingly annoying and harassing to anyone that falls outside your distorted perception of morality. Your tactics only serve to alienate you.

Trust me, most of us "get" why people can be distrustful of the medical establishment, and so we put effort into accommodating people. You know what doesn't work? When SJWs try to scream you down with "check your privilege," "learn what mansplaining is and stop it!" and calling any interaction where a minority is not put on a pedestal, racism. It's just like the election. Same states that voted for 8 years of a black guy that now voted for Trump have been re-labelled as "hateful" and "racist" and "a 'white-lash' against a black president." You guys are evidently acting like children every time you don't get what you want, so no, you're not some noble crusader that's using their privilege to amplify the voice of others not respected; which mind you is really ironic of you SJWs to basically proclaim yourselves saviors of the marginalized. Isn't that like racist and you should check your privilege?

I promise you that I've been doing my best to be understanding of the anti-SJ people. I spent a lot of time thinking about and talking with Trump supporters (being a multi-racial/multi-ethnic kid from rural America puts one in a unique position to have such discussions) and trying to understand the perspective that was leading to his rise and popularity in spite of him breaking all of these social norms and taboos.

And I agree with you - I often shut down "liberal" friends of mine who were quick to label someone as racist or whatever -ism because they supported Trump or didn't like Hillary. I recognized that the situation was much more nuanced than that and I took the time to listen to people about it. Nobody wants to be labeled racist, sexist, etc just like nobody wants to be labeled terrorist, illegal, thug, etc. If you break through the superficial layer of things, the emotions are quite similar on both sides.

All I ask in return from the people I associate with who fall on the other side of this debate is that they listen and try to empathize with my plight as a minority in this country as well, and surprisingly people can be very understanding when you stop screaming at them and start talking with them. Yelling "check your privilege" doesn't do any good for anyone, but explaining what privilege means and how it affects your life on a daily basis can actually get through to someone. Granted, there are hard headed people who will refuse to believe racism exists or that privilege is a thing and want to believe in a fictionalized meritocracy that has never existed in this country, but I maintain that these are the minority of people.

I understand the backlash to political correctness from people who shout down anyone who doesn't speak the way they intend. But it's also important to understand how what you say might offend someone. And if you're a decent person, which I believe most people are, you'll stop saying those things around that person it offends.

In the spirit of Christmas (Hanukkah started today too so l'chaim) I think it's best that we all stop living in our bubbles, reach across the aisle, and start having conversations with one another. Have constructive dialogue, find common ground, and recognize the basic humanity that connects us all.

Peace

 

[jw3600]

....wow

 

[Frogger27]

....wow

The funniest part about this video is that they were actually dead serious lol.. Gotta love MTV

 

[zero0]

....wow

You have reached me MTV. I have seen the error of my ways and will never again question the ways of the radical neoliberal front.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I promise you that I've been doing my best to be understanding of the anti-SJ people. I spent a lot of time thinking about and talking with Trump supporters (being a multi-racial/multi-ethnic kid from rural America puts one in a unique position to have such discussions) and trying to understand the perspective that was leading to his rise and popularity in spite of him breaking all of these social norms and taboos.

And I agree with you - I often shut down "liberal" friends of mine who were quick to label someone as racist or whatever -ism because they supported Trump or didn't like Hillary. I recognized that the situation was much more nuanced than that and I took the time to listen to people about it. Nobody wants to be labeled racist, sexist, etc just like nobody wants to be labeled terrorist, illegal, thug, etc. If you break through the superficial layer of things, the emotions are quite similar on both sides.

All I ask in return from the people I associate with who fall on the other side of this debate is that they listen and try to empathize with my plight as a minority in this country as well, and surprisingly people can be very understanding when you stop screaming at them and start talking with them. Yelling "check your privilege" doesn't do any good for anyone, but explaining what privilege means and how it affects your life on a daily basis can actually get through to someone. Granted, there are hard headed people who will refuse to believe racism exists or that privilege is a thing and want to believe in a fictionalized meritocracy that has never existed in this country, but I maintain that these are the minority of people.

I understand the backlash to political correctness from people who shout down anyone who doesn't speak the way they intend. But it's also important to understand how what you say might offend someone. And if you're a decent person, which I believe most people are, you'll stop saying those things around that person it offends.

In the spirit of Christmas (Hanukkah started today too so l'chaim) I think it's best that we all stop living in our bubbles, reach across the aisle, and start having conversations with one another. Have constructive dialogue, find common ground, and recognize the basic humanity that connects us all.

Peace

See. I don't consider you a social justice warrior. You sound like a normal concerned citizen. Be careful of being associated with the worst of your kind. Just like if you're a Trump supporter you don't have to be one of these alt-right clowns.

 

[jqueb29]

There are absolutely groups who are less fortunate than others, but there is no "social injustice". Yes, some people are born into wealth while others are born into poverty or other "vulnerable" situations, but there is not some massive societal injustice preventing such people from receiving quality medical care or earning a "living wage".

There's nothing wrong with wanting to help poor people, or people from whatever "vulnerable" demographic you want. But there IS a problem with acting like society has committed some injustice towards whatever your vulnerable group of choice is.

 

[jqueb29]

If this was recent, it was probably in response to the election. A lot of people are worried about the outcome and probably appreciate the message of solidarity from their school.

 

[RooibosTea]

There are absolutely groups who are less fortunate than others, but there is no "social injustice". Yes, some people are born into wealth while others are born into poverty or other "vulnerable" situations, but there is not some massive societal injustice preventing such people from receiving quality medical care or earning a "living wage".

There's nothing wrong with wanting to help poor people, or people from whatever "vulnerable" demographic you want. But there IS a problem with acting like society has committed some injustice towards whatever your vulnerable group of choice is.

Oh really? Read "Medical Apartheid."

 

[Taddy Mason]

There are absolutely groups who are less fortunate than others, but there is no "social injustice". Yes, some people are born into wealth while others are born into poverty or other "vulnerable" situations, but there is not some massive societal injustice preventing such people from receiving quality medical care or earning a "living wage".

There's nothing wrong with wanting to help poor people, or people from whatever "vulnerable" demographic you want. But there IS a problem with acting like society has committed some injustice towards whatever your vulnerable group of choice is.

 

[ParallelLines]

Don't use tumblr/twitter as an example of SJWs

Don't use the perfect example/online cesspool showcasing what SJWs are as an example of SJWs???

 

[AlteredScale]

Reminder to keep things civil and professional please. Thanks.

 

[solitarius]

If you really can't understand how atrocities done to certain groups in the past ripple out to many of the current social justice issues in the present, I don't know what to tell you. I feel like that's pretty basic reasoning that anyone who is intelligent/empathetic enough to find themselves in medical school should be able to comprehend.

Your point is valid. In addition, far too many people come to medical school from sheltered backgrounds and just lack the common sense to interact with different types of people.

That said, I just don't think you can entrust a bunch of immature 20-somethings with the type of power that SJWs try to wield. It's so easy for someone to be offended at anything. It's so easy for gossip to manipulate what a person said or their intent. It's so easy to get f**** over just about anything. It's created a culture of fear, frankly. And it contributes to high levels of tension, isolation, and distrust. Sadly, the adults are no better as you see the left-wingers push their agenda on campuses nationwide.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...on-sexual-orientation/?utm_term=.47672d157ef4

 

[ChemEngMD]

Your point is valid. In addition, far too many people come to medical school from sheltered backgrounds and just lack the common sense to interact with different types of people.

That said, I just don't think you can entrust a bunch of immature 20-somethings with the type of power that SJWs try to wield. It's so easy for someone to be offended at anything. It's so easy for gossip to manipulate what a person said or their intent. It's so easy to get f**** over just about anything. It's created a culture of fear, frankly. And it contributes to high levels of tension, isolation, and distrust. Sadly, the adults are no better as you see the left-wingers push their agenda on campuses nationwide.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...on-sexual-orientation/?utm_term=.47672d157ef4

I guess I just hate the term Social Justice Warrior. To me these people are the PC Police. I find the PC Police to be incredibly annoying and caught up far too much in the semantics of the issues rather than the issues themselves. These are the same people who get upset about someone dressing up as a Native American for Halloween then don't know anything about the Dakota Access Pipeline (DAPL). Their outrage is misplaced and mainly because it's easier to go on the attack over language than it is to try and stand up to real threats to people's lives and well-beings.

I consider myself a "warrior" for social justice in the purest sense of the form. I'm a direct result of the backlash to injustices I saw through my adolescence and into my adulthood - it's a large part of why I chose to go into medicine. I have advocated for underserved people throughout my adult life (this doesn't just mean racial/ethnic/sexual minorities either - I am acutely aware of the plight of poor and working people across the racial spectrum) and I plan to continue to do so throughout my career. I have gotten into it more than once with classmates of mine who's hearts are in the right place, but aren't focused on the right targets. Trying to get someone fired from their job at Burger King because they said some racist stuff about Obama on Facebook isn't doing anything to stop systemic oppression. Taking your money out of banks who support DAPL (BoA, TD, etc) or not shopping at stores that have notoriously poor labor records are much more concrete things one can do to fight injustice and actually places the aggression in the right direction.

That doesn't mean I'm not gonna call out the dude in the Mexican costume at the party. It more means I'm going to have a conversation with that guy about that costume and convince anyone who is offended by his costume to put that energy into working for immigrant rights rather than just throwing an online temper tantrum.

Anyway, I digress lol. I was very supportive of my institution this year when they said "hey we believe 'safe spaces' impede free speech so we're not supporting them," and not because I'm an anti-PC crusader but because I believe that any self described liberal or progressive cannot say that they believe in freedom of speech for some and not others just because you don't believe with them.

 

[GregPikitis]

I for once never understood what exactly is the offense in wearing a traditional costume. Would it offend anyone if I wore a traditional German, French, Russian, Italian, Irish, or any other outfit? Probably not (at least not in my experience). Then why is it offensive to dress up as an African-American or Mexican, or wear any other outfit that is deemed offensive?
I think the reason for that are the SJWs' double standards. As I said in my previous post, many of my SJW aquaintances find it ok to say certain things about white people as a group but not ok to say the exact same things about other races. The most bewildering part of it is that they consider it to be fair. Well, in my opinion two wrongs don't make a right, and there is no way to fight racism and injustice with more racism and other injustice.
I don't think that anyone is arguing that helping poor or otherwise less fortunate people is anything but a great thing to do. The argument is that SJW movement with its double standards, patronizing attitude, tendency to blow the smallest things out of proportion, and what looks like a desire to limit free expression creates more divide in the society and generally does more harm than good.

What does it mean to dress up as an African-American?

 

[Dr. In Formation]

"We're a culture, not a costume. This is not who I am and this is not okay."

http://bust.com/general/8749-were-a...n-reminds-us-dont-be-racist-on-halloween.html

 

[Astra]

"We're a culture, not a costume. This is not who I am and this is not okay."

http://bust.com/general/8749-were-a...n-reminds-us-dont-be-racist-on-halloween.html

I've always hated that picture and here's why:

for the first picture, I understand that black face has historically negative connotations in America but not everyone who dresses up as black is racist or demeaning black culture culture. For example, my good friend ( who is white) dressed up as Lil Jon from Dave Chapelle's skit and there was no negative intent involved. Is it wrong to dress up as someone you admire who is black? For all we know, that girl could be dressed up as someone who is black and famous. The context of the costume is important and to deem an certain costumes off limits is unreasonable imo.


As for the second picture, why is the brown skinned boy offended by someone dressed up as a suicide bomber? Is that picture saying suicide bombers are a part of his culture?

As for the third picture,why is dressing up as a geisha not acceptable but dressing up as a samurai or a ninja is ok? What is offensive about dressing up as a geisha?


My main problem overall is that some people make up arbitrary rules about what costumes are allowed and get offended even though there was no ill intent. Do you think people should only dress up as someone if they are the same culture or race?


Also, inb4 white privilege, white ignorance etc.

I am not white and I am a minority.

 

[Dr. In Formation]

I am not the mouthpiece for all minorities so I'm sorry I can't answer your question. Maybe you should ask the student group Ohio University why they chose those images for their anti-racism campaign. I included those and the bustle article anticipating someone would ask why I didn't mention dressing up as "x, y, or z" race for Halloween. Also, one of the posters included an offensive poor Caucasian stereotype so fyi White people were not excluded from this ad campaign.

https://www.ohio.edu/orgs/stars/Poster_Campaign.html

 

[KungFuPanda123]

I've always hated that picture and here's why:

for the first picture, I understand that black face has historically negative connotations in America but not everyone who dresses up as black is racist or demeaning black culture culture. For example, my good friend ( who is white) dressed up as Lil Jon from Dave Chapelle's skit and there was no negative intent involved. Is it wrong to dress up as someone you admire who is black? For all we know, that girl could be dressed up as someone who is black and famous. The context of the costume is important and to deem an certain costumes off limits is unreasonable imo.


As for the second picture, why is the brown skinned boy offended by someone dressed up as a suicide bomber? Is that picture saying suicide bombers are a part of his culture?

As for the third picture,why is dressing up as a geisha not acceptable but dressing up as a samurai or a ninja is ok? What is offensive about dressing up as a geisha?


My main problem overall is that some people make up arbitrary rules about what costumes are allowed and get offended even though there was no ill intent. Do you think people should only dress up as someone if they are the same culture or race?


Also, inb4 white privilege, white ignorance etc.

I am not white and I am a minority.

I agree with most all of what you said. At the end of the day, what determines whether or not something is racist is completely dependent on the costume wearer's INTENTIONS. But no one can truly know an individual's intentions aside from the individual him/herself.

That's where these ads come in. They are super cheesy and cringy (and I would prefer to not have them out there). But stay with me here.

Those ads are trying to stop the correlation that some people make in their heads between a given race and what their people are like. They're doing a poor job of it (in my opinion), but I feel like WHAT they are trying to accomplish is good. They don't want someone to assume that many muslim men are radical, religious terrorists. They don't want someone to assume that many asian women are submissive females.

Sure, some of these things are true. Are most publicized terrorists on American TV (that covers international news) muslim men? I'd say so. Are most asian women (including non-leading roles) in movies usually submissive females? I'd say so.

But these are stereotypes that these ethnicities don't want to propagate. People from these ethnicities want to be treated by society in a way that is not considered
"lesser" by society. Can you blame them? No, you can't blame someone for wanting their ethnicity to be perceived in a better light.

Many would argue that it's the responsibility/job of people within a given ethnicity TO ACT in the way that they want to be perceived... "muslim men should stop being terrorists if they don't want to be seen as terrorists." "Asian females should stop being so domestic/subordinate if they don't want to be seen that way." This is very much true.

But no one is denying that. Of course these groups should act in the manner that they want to be perceived. But it is a VERY SLOW process to defeat stereotypes, because often times, the stereotypes can become a self-fulfilling prophecy and groups who are stereotyped against will sometimes slip into the very stereotypes that they want to defy (e.g. black males commit more violent crimes than other ethnicities => cops profile black males => cops arrest more black males => black males think that the whole justice system is unfair => more confrontation between black males and cops => cycle starts over, rinse, repeat).

So can you see why these groups might want to speed up the process of being seen as something beyond certain stereotypes - even if it is done through super cheesy, possibly counter-productive ads? They are trying to educate directly while also hoping that their peers within the same ethnic group are acting in a productive nature (i.e. acting in a manner that is counter to the given stereotypes).

 

[Astra]

Are most publicized terrorists on American TV (that covers international news) muslim men? I'd say so.

But that's because most terrorist attacks that occur in Western civilization are due to Muslim men. Non muslim terrorist attacks have gotten just as much coverage when they occured. For example, Dylan Roofe, Anders Breivik

Are most asian women (including non-leading roles) in movies usually submissive females? I'd say so.

This is debatable if its due to the woman being Asian or because she is a woman. Hollywood generally stereotypes women if they are not in a leading role.

Also, not all geishas are seen as submissive women in Japan as many are respected and perform various ceremonies.

But these are stereotypes that these ethnicities don't want to propagate. People from these ethnicities want to be treated by society in a way that is not considered
"lesser" by society. Can you blame them? No, you can't blame someone for wanting their ethnicity to be perceived in a better light.

Many would argue that it's the responsibility/job of people within a given ethnicity TO ACT in the way that they want to be perceived... "muslim men should stop being terrorists if they don't want to be seen as terrorists." "Asian females should stop being so domestic/subordinate if they don't want to be seen that way." This is very much true.

But no one is denying that. Of course these groups should act in the manner that they want to be perceived. But it is a VERY SLOW process to defeat stereotypes, because often times, the stereotypes can become a self-fulfilling prophecy and groups who are stereotyped against will sometimes slip into the very stereotypes that they want to defy (e.g. black males commit more violent crimes than other ethnicities => cops profile black males => cops arrest more black males => black males think that the whole justice system is unfair => more confrontation between black males and cops => cycle starts over, rinse, repeat).

I agree 100%

So can you see why these groups might want to speed up the process of being seen as something beyond certain stereotypes - even if it is done through super cheesy, possibly counter-productive ads? They are trying to educate directly while also hoping that their peers within the same ethnic group are acting in a productive nature (i.e. acting in a manner that is counter to the given stereotypes).

See this is where I disagree. Dressing up as someone doesn't mean you are propagating a stereotype. I get what you mean though. For example, if someone said they wanted to dress up as a gangster and then had the costume the first picture did, that's a major stereotype and very ignorant. If someone said, hey I wanna dress up as a geisha, there is nothing wrong with that. But if someone says they want to dress up as an Asian woman and then proceed to be a geisha, that's ignorant and stereotyping. If someone said, hey I wanna dress up as a middle eastern guy and then dressed up as a terrorist, then that's ignorant and stereotyping.

My main concern is that people are deeming certain costumes off limits in fear of that person stereotyping a certain culture when in reality, that person may have chosen that costume specifically. Are certain costumes in bad taste such as that Muslim terrorist one? I think so. But I genuinely think if someone thinks geishas are super cool and wants to be one for halloween, there is nothing wrong with it. Or if someone loves Prince and wants to be him for halloween.

The solution to the stereotyping costumes would be to dress up only within your race or culture. Is that what you think is best?

 

[Dr. In Formation]

How about grown-ups stop celebrating a kids' holiday and start acting like adults? That would solve these costume issues and many more.

 

[Astra]

How about grown-ups stop celebrating a kids' holiday and start acting like adults? That would solve these costume issues and many more.

How about grown ups stop caring so much what other grown ups do on a kids' holiday and start acting like adults? That would solve these costume issues and many more.

 

[Dr. In Formation]

I know you are but what am I?

 

[Stagg737]

Thanks for the replies. At least at my school its concerning because you would think people want to be doctors for the sake of helping other people as patients. How do you expect people to treat patients well with the behavior people have demonstrated at my school. All kinds of stories I could go into but won't about things people in my class have done, its honestly some of the worst people I've met in my life in terms of how selfish they are and how they treat other people. Granted I go to a DO school, but I wonder if more people do this at my school because so many people have a chip on their shoulder with the residency merger coming up and such, and that my school is very speciality focused rather than on primary care? Just some things I was thinking about. At least it seems to me that if you're at a more competitive school like an MD program maybe there's more of a "we can get through together" kind of mentality?

If anything, from everyone I've talked to DO schools tend to be more along the lines of "we can get through together" while many MD programs tend to attract the gunners. Obviously, that's a huge blanket statement, but you're honestly the first DO students I've talked to who felt like the atmosphere of their school is toxic (other than one class at my school).

Question for those who attend cliquey/hypercompetitive schools: how much more in tuition would you be willing to spend to have had attended a school with a collaborative/supportive/friendly environment? It's kind of the decision I have to make soon, so I'd love to hear your opinions now that you have hindsight.

I attend a pretty laid back school (DO), but one (of many) factors that led me to cancel an MD interview was because of the atmosphere of my school combined with what students I new/met at the MD school told me. Most of them hated it and felt like their class' attitude towards each other and administration's attitude towards the students was detrimental. Like I said, there were many factors as to why I turned down that school, but the happiness of the students was one of the final straws for me canceling that interview.

I promise you that I've been doing my best to be understanding of the anti-SJ people. I spent a lot of time thinking about and talking with Trump supporters (being a multi-racial/multi-ethnic kid from rural America puts one in a unique position to have such discussions) and trying to understand the perspective that was leading to his rise and popularity in spite of him breaking all of these social norms and taboos.

And I agree with you - I often shut down "liberal" friends of mine who were quick to label someone as racist or whatever -ism because they supported Trump or didn't like Hillary. I recognized that the situation was much more nuanced than that and I took the time to listen to people about it. Nobody wants to be labeled racist, sexist, etc just like nobody wants to be labeled terrorist, illegal, thug, etc. If you break through the superficial layer of things, the emotions are quite similar on both sides.

All I ask in return from the people I associate with who fall on the other side of this debate is that they listen and try to empathize with my plight as a minority in this country as well, and surprisingly people can be very understanding when you stop screaming at them and start talking with them. Yelling "check your privilege" doesn't do any good for anyone, but explaining what privilege means and how it affects your life on a daily basis can actually get through to someone. Granted, there are hard headed people who will refuse to believe racism exists or that privilege is a thing and want to believe in a fictionalized meritocracy that has never existed in this country, but I maintain that these are the minority of people.

I understand the backlash to political correctness from people who shout down anyone who doesn't speak the way they intend. But it's also important to understand how what you say might offend someone. And if you're a decent person, which I believe most people are, you'll stop saying those things around that person it offends.

In the spirit of Christmas (Hanukkah started today too so l'chaim) I think it's best that we all stop living in our bubbles, reach across the aisle, and start having conversations with one another. Have constructive dialogue, find common ground, and recognize the basic humanity that connects us all.

Peace

The bolded is exactly what modern SJW's don't do though. SJW no longer stands for those like MLK or Susan B. Anthony who took a stand against specific forms of discrimination and genuinely wanted to improve the living conditions and rights of those being discriminated against. Today's SJW's stand up for a "cause" and then scream about how much of a racist/sexist/bigot/homophobe/etc. anyone who disagrees with them is. They don't listen to the other side and try and understand. They hear the other side say something they don't like and proclaim them as evil people who are in the way of what they consider a "perfect world". I've found many of them to be closer to fascists than advocates of individual rights. Example: before the election I was talking with one of my spouse's friends about the election and when she found out I wasn't voting for Hillary she said I was a sexist piece of **** who shouldn't vote. She didn't care that I didn't vote for Trump, she just cared that I didn't think Hillary should be president either. I've heard that reaction (or something along those lines) from several adults and it's generally why I don't particularly care to interact with most people on the extremes of either party or ideology, because they seem to lose the ability to think logically and consider other viewpoints and act more like hormonal teenagers than adults. The modern SJW has fit into that niche in almost every conversation I've had with one.

 

[Emmet2301]

Many would argue that it's the responsibility/job of people within a given ethnicity TO ACT in the way that they want to be perceived... "muslim men should stop being terrorists if they don't want to be seen as terrorists." "Asian females should stop being so domestic/subordinate if they don't want to be seen that way." This is very much true.

What does this even mean? Guess we should all change our personalities so we aren't stereotyped?

 

[DOFOSHO]

#MAGA

 

[deleted731525]

No, you don't seem to get it like the rest of SJWs. We don't care why you're doing it or even if you are genuine or not. What we want is for you to stop because you've become increasingly annoying and harassing to anyone that falls outside your distorted perception of morality. Your tactics only serve to alienate you.

Trust me, most of us "get" why people can be distrustful of the medical establishment, and so we put effort into accommodating people. You know what doesn't work? When SJWs try to scream you down with "check your privilege," "learn what mansplaining is and stop it!" and calling any interaction where a minority is not put on a pedestal, racism. It's just like the election. Same states that voted for 8 years of a black guy that now voted for Trump have been re-labelled as "hateful" and "racist" and "a 'white-lash' against a black president." You guys are evidently acting like children every time you don't get what you want, so no, you're not some noble crusader that's using their privilege to amplify the voice of others not respected; which mind you is really ironic of you SJWs to basically proclaim yourselves saviors of the marginalized. Isn't that like racist and you should check your privilege?

I have literally never seen any of this happen in real life and I live in(and attended college in) the liberal north east(and most of my current med school class is from either the north east or california). I feel like some people in this thread are inadvertently setting up strawmen by using what they see from buzzfeed and the internet in general(which naturally trends towards being an echo chamber) to form the basis of what they think happens in real life. Yes some people fight/advocate(usually civilly) for groups they see as disadvantaged but I have never once heard the term "mansplaining" used without irony in real life.

 

[Astra]

I have literally never seen any of this happen in real life and I live in(and attended college in) the liberal north east(and most of my current med school class is from either the north east or california). I feel like some people in this thread are inadvertently setting up strawmen by using what they see from buzzfeed and the internet in general(which naturally trends towards being an echo chamber) to form the basis of what they think happens in real life. Yes some people fight/advocate(usually civilly) for groups they see as disadvantaged but I have never once heard the term "mansplaining" used without irony in real life.

I could find more but I think this is enough.

If you want to see SJW's in action at a college, watch this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCcp36n2cDg

I get that you might have not seen this your life experiences but the SJWS people are talking about in this thread do genuinely exist.

 

[KungFuPanda123]

See this is where I disagree. Dressing up as someone doesn't mean you are propagating a stereotype. I get what you mean though. For example, if someone said they wanted to dress up as a gangster and then had the costume the first picture did, that's a major stereotype and very ignorant. If someone said, hey I wanna dress up as a geisha, there is nothing wrong with that. But if someone says they want to dress up as an Asian woman and then proceed to be a geisha, that's ignorant and stereotyping. If someone said, hey I wanna dress up as a middle eastern guy and then dressed up as a terrorist, then that's ignorant and stereotyping.

My main concern is that people are deeming certain costumes off limits in fear of that person stereotyping a certain culture when in reality, that person may have chosen that costume specifically. Are certain costumes in bad taste such as that Muslim terrorist one? I think so. But I genuinely think if someone thinks geishas are super cool and wants to be one for halloween, there is nothing wrong with it. Or if someone loves Prince and wants to be him for halloween.

The solution to the stereotyping costumes would be to dress up only within your race or culture. Is that what you think is best?

Haha I don't think we actually disagree here so much as we might not be bringing up certain relevant details that we might actually agree on.

For example, the reason why I think that dressing up as a Middle-Eastern male suicide bomber propagates a stereotype is not because of people like you and I who clearly think analytically about these things. We consider the fact that perhaps the person who is dressing up is just dressing up as a suicide bomber. Or we consider the fact that not all suicide bombers are Middle-Eastern men, so we purposely catalogue this costume as simply a costume.

But I think that there are many people out there who aren't able to separate the concepts of Middle-Eastern male and suicide bomber as very separate things (that are somewhat intertwined). I think that seeing the two together in the form of a costume (i.e. a middle-eastern male suicide bomber) solidifies the idea in their mind that the two are much more intertwined than they actually are.

So yea, I think that in an ideal world, we should be able to dress up as whoever we want. And in all honesty, even in our non-ideal world, I'm not going to get angry at someone for dressing up as something like a Geisha. It's a free country - you should be able to express yourself as you please. If you're trying to make a statement, great. If you're just dressing up as the costume itself, great. It's even more disgusting in my opinion to force someone to NOT be able to dress up as they please; the first amendment is a real thing in this country and should be preserved.

But I know that I PERSONALLY wouldn't dress myself up as something that could fit a given group of people within a box that they would not want to be put inside of. I personally know too many Middle-Eastern guys at this point to not want to dress up as a suicide bomber, because I know how much they hate being perceived as that by a lot of uneducated people out there. I know too many Asian girls who do not appreciate being seen by some of their coworkers as very subordinate/not willing to stand up for themselves to want to dress up as a geisha. I know that there isn't a totally clear overlap between dressing up as a Geisha and propagating a society that assumes that Asian females are subordinate, but I know the other side's feelings enough to the point where I wouldn't want to do something to hurt what they are trying to accomplish, you know?

I don't have many black male friends, but I taught black male students in a low-income area as a teacher in the past. I know how hard some of them worked in school and how much they wanted to be seen by the city/media/people as intellectuals, not just gangbangers who tagged up buildings in the neighborhood. This personal connection with them keeps me from ever wanting to put on black paint and dressing up as a gangster. There's no way I would ever want to put myself in a position where I might be causing damage to this cause that they set out for themselves (i.e. working hard in school, succeeding, and being seen as productive members of society).

So at the end of the day, I think that I like to dress up on Halloween according to the lowest common denominator - I'm going to assume that there are plenty of people out there who will make assumptions and false connections about my costume. I do this because even though I'm a huge fan of free speech (and I think that anyone should be able to dress up as they like, assuming that it's not a real threat. e.g. no real bombs on a costume terrorist), I also don't want to utilize my free speech to potentially hurt the causes of those around me - especially those who I have personal connections with. At the end of the day, I am perfectly content dressing up as an ironic pun, an animal, etc. for Halloween. I don't want to potentially hurt the good causes that other groups are trying to promote or hurt the feelings of those people, if I can have just as much fun during Halloween not doing so. People from those groups have very real reasons for wanting to promote a certain image that I PERSONALLY think is a very fair desire to have.

edit: just saw some of the SJW stuff up top. I think that the term "SJW" is more for the people who are over-the-top, get-in-your-face type who can be kind of annoying. I do think that they are damaging to the more moderate groups of people who do care about what certain ethnic/minority/white/religious/gender/etc. groups are pushing for.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I have literally never seen any of this happen in real life and I live in(and attended college in) the liberal north east(and most of my current med school class is from either the north east or california). I feel like some people in this thread are inadvertently setting up strawmen by using what they see from buzzfeed and the internet in general(which naturally trends towards being an echo chamber) to form the basis of what they think happens in real life. Yes some people fight/advocate(usually civilly) for groups they see as disadvantaged but I have never once heard the term "mansplaining" used without irony in real life.

We have countless videos of this type of stuff happening on-campus. Your personal experience is just your experience.

 

[deleted731525]

I could find more but I think this is enough.

If you want to see SJW's in action at a college, watch this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCcp36n2cDg

I get that you might have not seen this your life experiences but the SJWS people are talking about in this thread do genuinely exist.

Right I didnt mean to imply that they didnt exist, just that they dont exist in any greater numbers than any other fringe group(although it would appear that they do to somebody who is just going by what they see online where things become an echo chamber) and people who advocate for disadvantage populations(which seemed to be the type of people this thread was originally talking about in the third post of this thread) arent by definition part of that particular fringe group. Just like you can find plenty of videos of Trump supporters saying/doing outrageous things, those people are still in the vast minority of regular Trump supporters.

 

[jw3600]

I could find more but I think this is enough.

If you want to see SJW's in action at a college, watch this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCcp36n2cDg

I get that you might have not seen this your life experiences but the SJWS people are talking about in this thread do genuinely exist.

If only George Carlin was alive today. He could have a week long special on these people.

Edit: BTW, I'm aware the vast majority of people who advocate for social change are not like this. These are just some really gruesome examples.

 

[RooibosTea]

I could find more but I think this is enough.

If you want to see SJW's in action at a college, watch this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCcp36n2cDg

I get that you might have not seen this your life experiences but the SJWS people are talking about in this thread do genuinely exist.

I could easily find forums, youtube videos, facebook posts, etc of anti-PC crusaders making a big stink about stupid chit like that State Farm advertisement or the fact that Idris Elba played a role in Thor, complaining about the movie "Hidden Figures," etc.

 

[Astra]

I could easily find forums, youtube videos, facebook posts, etc of anti-PC crusaders making a big stink about stupid chit like that State Farm advertisement or the fact that Idris Elba played a role in Thor, complaining about the movie "Hidden Figures," etc.

Go ahead. I am not saying they don't exist. There are ignorant people on all sides of the political spectrum.

I posted my comment because someone said the following:

I have literally never seen any of this happen in real life and I live in(and attended college in) the liberal north east(and most of my current med school class is from either the north east or california). I feel like some people in this thread are inadvertently setting up strawmen by using what they see from buzzfeed and the internet in general(which naturally trends towards being an echo chamber) to form the basis of what they think happens in real life.

and I wanted to show him/her that these type of people exist.

 

[RooibosTea]

Go ahead. I am not saying they don't exist. There are ignorant people on all sides of the political spectrum.

I posted my comment because someone said the following:




and I wanted to show him/her that these type of people exist.

Wow, you admitted this?

 

[Astra]

Wow, you admitted this?

Why wouldn't I?

If you took a minute to stop being so condescending and read through my post history, you'll see that I criticize people regardless of their political leanings.

 

[RooibosTea]

Why wouldn't I?

If you took a minute to stop being so condescending and read through my post history, you'll see that I criticize people regardless of their political leanings.

Confused you with another poster.

 

[SansaStarkMD]

I wish white privilege was real. Maybe I would have gotten accepted to med school sooner unlike some of my nonwhite friends with worse applications.

 

[Lua]

SJW's are part of the "Theater of the Absurd". Great entertainment, but without wisdom.

Sent from my SM-G935V using SDN mobile

 

[deleted731525]

I wish white privilege was real. Maybe I would have gotten accepted to med school sooner unlike some of my nonwhite friends with worse applications.

I could see season 1/GOT Sansa Stark saying this.

 

[Localnative]

My class is incredibly hypercompetitive, cliquey, backstabbing, and a bunch of users that are totally out for themselves. There's a lot of drama and fights that goes on between cliques where people are exclusive and derogatory towards classmates that are deemed "un-cool" and classmates make no attempt to support struggling students.

I'm just curious, does that stuff go on at your school too? I'm just wondering if this is typical med school behavior among classmates or are people more chill with each other at your school?

former medstudent, now working class guy here. can't comment on current state of social dynamics in the med school arena but-
why don't you try to build a network of friends outside of the med school? I'm sure there are professional student/grad student mixers where you can meet other people, find support nad friendship outside the confines of the classroom
When I was in Michigan, when I had free time I would hang out with other grad students in my apartment complex, they would introduce me to other decent folks, and boom. my clique was born. There was hardly any discussion of testing weeks, grades, concerns about your professional future. Everyone was just happy to enjoy the moment with each other, whether it was chilling poolside during the summer or tailgating for a game.
Try it out. its rather refreshing.
M

 

[Nietzsche's Barber]

I don't hang out with people in my class. My best friend is a barber and a bunch of my other friends do non-medical school activities for a living. Medical school is my job and I leave my job at school (advice I received prior to matriculating).

I socialize and hang out with my classmates at school...but that's usually as far as it goes. My happiness level couldn't be higher.

 

[BurghStudent]

w/o all these SJW run amok on med school campuses, there would be no students bemoaning ""PC Culture"" and ""reverse discrimination""; this attitude of bemoaning is due to the SJW

The people who are always throwing hissyfits for nearly anything are far worse, melodramatic, and ill-prepared for the real-world than those that point out how annoying the SJW are.

I had about 10 emails (not a joke) from faculty after the election, which offered sit down sessions for students to talk over what had just happened. If something doesn't go your way, then the world is as good as doomed, apparently. If HC won and they offered these sessions, it would be just as dumb.

O.M.G. This.

I am a minority. SJWs need some chill.

I got so many emails from my school about psych and counseling after DJT won. Absolutely ridiculous. Our attendings walk on eggshells and are required to do sensitivity training lest they offend a student.

But when it comes to important emails like deadlines for research fellowships, those are sent the day before apps are due.