Can't understand this

[Medstudentquest]

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I know I am feeding a troll, but I feel the need to add this in:

I have seen some amazingly impressive IMG's!!! They often have completed some or all of a residency in their home country and know more about medicine than any AMG starting an internship. They are prepared to work their ass off and do so every single day and night. They are nice to everyone and incredibly grateful for the opportunity to slave away. They have extra obstacles to overcome, including language and cultural barriers, not to mention a huge bias against them!

If I were a PD, I would take one of them in a heart beat over certain American grads!!! Especially if they have amazing Step I and II scores (and maybe Step III too), have great LORs, and interview well.

Is it fair to take a great FMG over a mediocre AMG who I dont think will be a good resident? Why not.

Besides, life isnt always fair.

Why do some FMG's come to the US? The same reason many of our parents or grandparents or great-great-great-great grandparents did. Better opportunities. Better quality of life. A chance to learn from some of the world's medical leaders. Or because of what is lacking in their home country. Its no fun practicing medicine in a hospital where you have no medical supplies, no drugs, no electricity or running water or regular blackouts. It really limits what you can do for pts and is just down right depressing more often than not!

Please don't call me that.

 

[howelljolly]

How do I have a sense of entitlement?
.

Oh I dunno... here are a couple...

Nevertheless, it is frustrating that I always have to work harder than others to get to the same level. I have lived a life of struggle, and I am very tired of it. I see other people get the same or more with alot less struggle.

BD,



I am not sure whether you've gone through a great deal or through little in your life, but I've gone through a great deal, and I'm tired. I guess since no one knows me here, obviously it's hard to understand. But I"m tired of constantly struggling.

So I guess I'll just do myself the favor at this point and withdraw.

If you are considering a career change at this point, maybe you werent cut out to be in medicine after all. If nothing besides botox and big bucks caught your attention in the last four years....

 

[Logitech]

I know you're an excellent candidate, and if you have made it this far, you can certainly go all the way. Don't give up now. Nice thing about medicine is that you can always find a niche for yourself no matter what field you choose. Of course some fields are much easier at making that happen than others. There is a tremendous degree of flexibility with a med degree to define your practice and how you want to live your life. However, that requires you to at least finish residency. The process can be daunting and given how fresh your wound is, don't let this be the time for you to make such life changing decisions. There was a reason why you chose to pick such a difficult path and difficult career, but throughout the process, a lot of things can go wrong to make you doubtful. This horrible doubt is something we have all experienced to a certain degree at some point of our career. However, what is the best thing to do is not to make such drastic changes at a time when our emotions can easily overcome our rational thinking. I know you will bounce back from this and do well, but don't be so hard on yourself, as you are now letting that anger to project instead of who you really are. While it is a horrible feeling to know that others (your PD, dean, etc) are not able to help you in this mess, be graceful and thank them for their help. I know these folks are supposed to be there to help you, but the person you can really count on is yourself. Those folks are often there for guidance, but you can only count on yourself to do the legwork.

So things went wrong, really wrong for you in all this, but know that you have much to be proud of. It doesn't sound like you have a lot of social support from friends and family, and perhaps even a lot of pressure placed upon you by others close to you. I can see how it can be very devastating for you to all of a certain feel like your life's dream had been snatched from you. Nobody likes having the rug pulled out from under their feet, especially when others around you told you that you were the perfect candidate for derm. You had all the right setup to suffer the greatest blow to your ego, confidence, and self-esteem. I hate to have to go through what you're experiencing right now, and as hard as it is to believe, you will look back on this moment someday and discover that your life worked out fine even though the process to get there was awful. Yell, scream, lash out, do what you have to do to get this out of your system, but don't make any life changing decisions right now when your emotions are running high. Some things can only be solved with time. Give this some time, you will get through this. If all the adversities in your life have taught you anything, it's that you're still here and still fighting. You'll get there, it is now only a matter of time.

 

[asmallchild]

I have sampled quite a variety of fields in med school. I don't like primary care, esp. Peds/FP, I cannot tolerate OB, and no to surgical fields. IM I don't like too much.

You've sampled all the subspecialties of peds? of OBGYN (REI, MFM)? Of all surgical fields? Of all the subspecialties of IM?

And you couldn't find anything that suits you besides derm?

Perhaps you shouldn't be in medicine then...

 

[Medstudentquest]

Oh I dunno... here are a couple...







If you are considering a career change at this point, maybe you werent cut out to be in medicine after all. If nothing besides botox and big bucks caught your attention in the last four years....

I keep hearing the "oh your career is over" comment. So what am I supposed to do?

And I'm not sure whyyou'd say botox caught my attention in the last 4 years. I have said quite the opposite.

 

[abbaroodle]

No, I wasnt offered a position at Methodist. And someone else said they only take IMG's.

Lastly, I have done psych rotations in school already. But psych is not ultimately what I want.

Did you apply to Methodist??? Just because they often take IMG's doesnt mean they wont take an AMG if you can convince them that you are spectacular, ready to work your ass off (you better believe the FMG's will!!!), and you just somehow "slipped through the cracks."

It sounds like you would rather just quit medicine than do anything other than derm. I find this pretty shallow, but if thats the way you feel, and you can afford to quit, thats the way you feel.

I think if you take a prelim spot (which should open up if you look hard enough and are ready to take anything, even if it is at the worst hell-hole with the most evil PD imaginable!!!), there is a good chance you will be able to reapply and hopefully succeed. Obviously no guarantee. But if you do some good self-reflection and learn from this snafu, there is a chance it will work out.

 

[Medstudentquest]

You've sampled all the subspecialties of peds? of OBGYN (REI, MFM)? Of all surgical fields? Of all the subspecialties of IM?

And you couldn't find anything that suits you besides derm?

Perhaps you shouldn't be in medicine then...

I despise OB. And I don't like surgery and have done rotations in ENT, ortho, ophtho, and others. and physically I couldn't do surgery.
I don't like working with children so peds is out.

You were blessed enough to match into derm, but had you not matched, would you be this judgmental about me? Not sure about that.

 

[howelljolly]

I have sampled quite a variety of fields in med school. I don't like primary care, esp. Peds/FP, I cannot tolerate OB, and no to surgical fields. IM I don't like too much.

I have been working towards matching in derm for a while now, and it's frustrating as heck. And I don't know who to believe here-is the career over because I don't have a prelim or will I be able to redeem myself ever? That's the thing.

I am not saying i "deserve" to have gotten in the first time. Tons of people don't get in the first time. And I'm willing to put in the work necessary to get in. But if my career is forever damaged, then what's the point!?

Lets see... so you dont like Medicine or any of its subspecialties. You dont like Surgery, or any of its subspecialties. You dont like Peds, or any of its subspecialties. You dont know OB/Gyn, or any of its subspecialties. You dont like Psychiatry, or any of its subspecialties. Why exactly do you like Dermatology?

By the way, I would apply to Psychiatry if I were you. Your writing just SCREAMS "Cluster B"

 

[asmallchild]

I despise OB. And I don't like surgery and have done rotations in ENT, ortho, ophtho, and others. and physically I couldn't do surgery.
I don't like working with children so peds is out.

You were blessed enough to match into derm, but had you not matched, would you be this judgmental about me? Not sure about that.

I don't like playing the what if game.

In perusing through your prior threads, it seems like you have a contentious posting history even prior to Match Day.

I'm done here. (And I actually make good on that promise.....) Content to watch from a distance.

 

[Medstudentquest]

I know you're an excellent candidate, and if you have made it this far, you can certainly go all the way. Don't give up now. Nice thing about medicine is that you can always find a niche for yourself no matter what field you choose. Of course some fields are much easier at making that happen than others. There is a tremendous degree of flexibility with a med degree to define your practice and how you want to live your life. However, that requires you to at least finish residency. The process can be daunting and given how fresh your wound is, don't let this be the time for you to make such life changing decisions. There was a reason why you chose to pick such a difficult path and difficult career, but throughout the process, a lot of things can go wrong to make you doubtful. This horrible doubt is something we have all experienced to a certain degree at some point of our career. However, what is the best thing to do is not to make such drastic changes at a time when our emotions can easily overcome our rational thinking. I know you will bounce back from this and do well, but don't be so hard on yourself, as you are now letting that anger to project instead of who you really are. While it is a horrible feeling to know that others (your PD, dean, etc) are not able to help you in this mess, be graceful and thank them for their help. I know these folks are supposed to be there to help you, but the person you can really count on is yourself. Those folks are often there for guidance, but you can only count on yourself to do the legwork.

So things went wrong, really wrong for you in all this, but know that you have much to be proud of. It doesn't sound like you have a lot of social support from friends and family, and perhaps even a lot of pressure placed upon you by others close to you. I can see how it can be very devastating for you to all of a certain feel like your life's dream had been snatched from you. Nobody likes having the rug pulled out from under their feet, especially when others around you told you that you were the perfect candidate for derm. You had all the right setup to suffer the greatest blow to your ego, confidence, and self-esteem. I hate to have to go through what you're experiencing right now, and as hard as it is to believe, you will look back on this moment someday and discover that your life worked out fine even though the process to get there was awful. Yell, scream, lash out, do what you have to do to get this out of your system, but don't make any life changing decisions right now when your emotions are running high. Some things can only be solved with time. Give this some time, you will get through this. If all the adversities in your life have taught you anything, it's that you're still here and still fighting. You'll get there, it is now only a matter of time.

thanks for your kind words logitech. 🙂

 

[Medstudentquest]

I don't like playing the what if game.

In perusing through your prior threads, it seems like you have a contentious posting history even prior to Match Day.

I'm done here. (And I actually make good on that promise.....) Content to watch from a distance.

umm, ok. Thanks and good luck to you.

 

[howelljolly]

I keep hearing the "oh your career is over" comment. So what am I supposed to do?

And I'm not sure whyyou'd say botox caught my attention in the last 4 years. I have said quite the opposite.

Youve said so... but you havent convinced anyone.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Lets see... so you dont like Medicine or any of its subspecialties. You dont like Surgery, or any of its subspecialties. You dont like Peds, or any of its subspecialties. You dont know OB/Gyn, or any of its subspecialties. You dont like Psychiatry, or any of its subspecialties. Why exactly do you like Dermatology?

By the way, I would apply to Psychiatry if I were you. Your writing just SCREAMS "Cluster B"

It's sad that you are so judgmental without knowing me. But I'll leave it at that. If you had read my prior posts, you'd know why I chose derm.

 

[howelljolly]

It's sad that you are so judgmental without knowing me. But I'll leave it at that. If you had read my prior posts, you'd know why I chose derm.

fair enough....

 

[SoCuteMD]

Well the thing is that I keep getting conflicting information. I get the "oh no! your career is over" comments. And then I get the, "go back out there and re apply!"

So when I post that my career may be over and then it's best to quit, I get the "oh you are an idiot for quitting."

If i'm too proactive in trying to talk to people, I am "entitled." If I don't try hard enough, I am aloof.

Listen, you will NEVER know if you could have matched derm if you don't try again. IMHO, do your best to put this behind you in the coming weeks, months. Spend some time on a rads or anesthesia elective, just get in the hospital (you never know who you might meet that is in a position to help you). See if you like either one. Enjoy graduation - you've earned it. Finishing medical school is a huge accomplishment.

If a prelim spot comes up, take it - you'll finish your first year for derm, rads, anesthesia, or medicine. Study your ass of for Step 2. In June, after graduation, dig out and dust off your personal statement and CV. Polish them and bring them to 2 mentors - 1 in derm, and 1 in a chosen back-up field. Go see your dean as well and get his/her opinion on your application. Submit on Sep 1. Apply as broadly to derm as family/marital constraints will allow you to. Do practice interviews with any faculty member who is willing. Go on every interview you can. Basically - take the application process and make it your b----. If, at the end of all that you end up without a derm spot, then start training in your #2 specialty. If you hate it, leave. Nothing lost, you were thinking of quitting anyways.

You really CAN do this, if you make up your mind to grab this ****ty situation by the balls and turn it around.

 

[abbaroodle]

Listen, you will NEVER know if you could have matched derm if you don't try again. IMHO, do your best to put this behind you in the coming weeks, months. Spend some time on a rads or anesthesia elective, just get in the hospital (you never know who you might meet that is in a position to help you). See if you like either one. Enjoy graduation - you've earned it. Finishing medical school is a huge accomplishment.

If a prelim spot comes up, take it - you'll finish your first year for derm, rads, anesthesia, or medicine. Study your ass of for Step 2. In June, after graduation, dig out and dust off your personal statement and CV. Polish them and bring them to 2 mentors - 1 in derm, and 1 in a chosen back-up field. Go see your dean as well and get his/her opinion on your application. Submit on Sep 1. Apply as broadly to derm as family/marital constraints will allow you to. Do practice interviews with any faculty member who is willing. Go on every interview you can. Basically - take the application process and make it your b----. If, at the end of all that you end up without a derm spot, then start training in your #2 specialty. If you hate it, leave. Nothing lost, you were thinking of quitting anyways.

You really CAN do this, if you make up your mind to grab this ****ty situation by the balls and turn it around.

Quoting since that was the best, most concise, most useful advice I have heard yet and thought it should be read/posted again!!!!

 

[Medstudentquest]

Listen, you will NEVER know if you could have matched derm if you don't try again. IMHO, do your best to put this behind you in the coming weeks, months. Spend some time on a rads or anesthesia elective, just get in the hospital (you never know who you might meet that is in a position to help you). See if you like either one. Enjoy graduation - you've earned it. Finishing medical school is a huge accomplishment.

If a prelim spot comes up, take it - you'll finish your first year for derm, rads, anesthesia, or medicine. Study your ass of for Step 2. In June, after graduation, dig out and dust off your personal statement and CV. Polish them and bring them to 2 mentors - 1 in derm, and 1 in a chosen back-up field. Go see your dean as well and get his/her opinion on your application. Submit on Sep 1. Apply as broadly to derm as family/marital constraints will allow you to. Do practice interviews with any faculty member who is willing. Go on every interview you can. Basically - take the application process and make it your b----. If, at the end of all that you end up without a derm spot, then start training in your #2 specialty. If you hate it, leave. Nothing lost, you were thinking of quitting anyways.

You really CAN do this, if you make up your mind to grab this ****ty situation by the balls and turn it around.

Thanks. Like I said, I am still somewhat overwhelmed and frustrated and my family is very much against me quitting and think it's something that I would regret forever.

I have done everything I can so far to improve my situation and not sure what's going to happen. We shall see.

I appreciate your advice and other people's advice and again, sorry if I offended/distressed anyone.

 

[Elfy]

I despise OB.

You despise OB? How on earth did you arrive into this world? Someone delivered you, didn't they? Even if they didn't, how do you know you won't be in a position to need help with your own delivery one day?

You're a woman but despise OB, you despise IMGs although you're foreign-born... this all sounded pretty offensive indeed.

 

[Iwy Em Hotep]

To the OP:

Don't give up hope yet. Derm is a very tough route, and although some people don't make it the first time around, people who really want it end up getting it. A lot of residents at my school are previously IM-boarded, and most applicants take a year off to do dedicated research.

I strongly recommend postponing graduation until next year and use your valuable medical status to your advantage.

Here are some things that you can do to improve your application next time around:

1) Boards
Do well on Step 2. It'll be tough, but you need to show that your Step 1 was not a fluke, and that your clinical skills are sharp.

2) Research
How many first-author, *non-case report* publications do you have? Cranking case reports doesn't really impress anybody. Maybe some review articles would be a good idea. But what you really need is dedicated research towards something. Ideally, you should be running your own project, however limited in scope it is. Don't work for free -- find research funding for yourself.

3) Away rotations
This is where it pays to be a med student. Go on some away rotations at places where you think you have a good shot. Obviously, do well at them. Keep in touch with them so that they remember you next time around.

4) Applying
Apply broadly. As you know, applying is the cheap part. Interviews are expensive. So go ahead and select 70-80 programs. It would be a very prudent idea to apply to another field as well. IM perhaps. Many applicants go to derm after finishing IM. Path is also another possibility.

5) Interviewing package
I wrote about this some on another thread. It is important to know what you want and how you intend to get it. If you bill yourself as an academic dermatologist, your entire application should be consistent with this. Make sure you know your application well, and do mock interviews with a classmate or a resident so that you can identify problems before the real thing.

In one sense, you are in a better position now than had you matched into a prelim. It is extremely difficult to match from a prelim, because you need to arrange time to interview, and because of your limited time, scheduling is a nightmare. Plus, you're tired and stressed with internship, and trying to keep a sunny smile is very draining in itself.

Hope that helps.

 

[Tigerz_Fan]

It's sad that you are so judgmental without knowing me. But I'll leave it at that. If you had read my prior posts, you'd know why I chose derm.

I know I said I was done, but couldn't help myself.

Actually, I did read your prior posts. Almost all of them as a matter of fact. You say you don't like psych or IM, and oh wait, let's not forget anesthesia. Well, why do you have prior posts discussing going into psych, psych/IM combined, or anesthesia. You even asked the average Step 1 score for anesthesia applicants in the anesthesia forum. So, please, tell us the real story....

I am not a person on a "high-horse
rampage. Just someone completely offended by this person who quite obviously thinks very little of IMG/FMGs, and who just because she is an AMG she "derserved" a residency slot.

 

[Medstudentquest]

You despise OB? How on earth did you arrive into this world? Someone delivered you, didn't they? Even if they didn't, how do you know you won't be in a position to need help with your own delivery one day?

You're a woman but despise OB, you despise IMGs although you're foreign-born... this all sounded pretty offensive indeed.

Yes I do. If you like OB, I have no problem with that. But I had a terrible experience in OB-they belittled us, ridiculed us, and the residents even back stabbed each other, which is something I have not seen in other rotations/specialties. They also did things that were outright dangerous.

No, I don't despise IMG's-never said that.

 

[Medstudentquest]

I know I said I was done, but couldn't help myself.

Actually, I did read your prior posts. Almost all of them as a matter of fact. You say you don't like psych or IM, and oh wait, let's not forget anesthesia. Well, why do you have prior posts discussing going into psych, psych/IM combined, or anesthesia. You even asked the average Step 1 score for anesthesia applicants in the anesthesia forum. So, please, tell us the real story....

I am not a person on a "high-horse
rampage. Just someone completely offended by this person who quite obviously thinks very little of IMG/FMGs, and who just because she is an AMG she "derserved" a residency slot.

I don't have a problem per se with any specialty. I do like psych, but not enough to do it for the rest of my life. Anesthesia is something I've considered and it's a consideration if I never get into derm.

I don't think I deserve a residency just because I'm an AMG. I think that I've worked hard enough and have busted my behind and thought I would match.

 

[Medstudentquest]

To the OP:

Don't give up hope yet. Derm is a very tough route, and although some people don't make it the first time around, people who really want it end up getting it. A lot of residents at my school are previously IM-boarded, and most applicants take a year off to do dedicated research.

I strongly recommend postponing graduation until next year and use your valuable medical status to your advantage.

Here are some things that you can do to improve your application next time around:

1) Boards
Do well on Step 2. It'll be tough, but you need to show that your Step 1 was not a fluke, and that your clinical skills are sharp.

2) Research
How many first-author, *non-case report* publications do you have? Cranking case reports doesn't really impress anybody. Maybe some review articles would be a good idea. But what you really need is dedicated research towards something. Ideally, you should be running your own project, however limited in scope it is. Don't work for free -- find research funding for yourself.

3) Away rotations
This is where it pays to be a med student. Go on some away rotations at places where you think you have a good shot. Obviously, do well at them. Keep in touch with them so that they remember you next time around.

4) Applying
Apply broadly. As you know, applying is the cheap part. Interviews are expensive. So go ahead and select 70-80 programs. It would be a very prudent idea to apply to another field as well. IM perhaps. Many applicants go to derm after finishing IM. Path is also another possibility.

5) Interviewing package
I wrote about this some on another thread. It is important to know what you want and how you intend to get it. If you bill yourself as an academic dermatologist, your entire application should be consistent with this. Make sure you know your application well, and do mock interviews with a classmate or a resident so that you can identify problems before the real thing.

In one sense, you are in a better position now than had you matched into a prelim. It is extremely difficult to match from a prelim, because you need to arrange time to interview, and because of your limited time, scheduling is a nightmare. Plus, you're tired and stressed with internship, and trying to keep a sunny smile is very draining in itself.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[howelljolly]

It's sad that you are so judgmental without knowing me. But I'll leave it at that. If you had read my prior posts, you'd know why I chose derm.

Did a quick search... couldnt find why you chose derm. BTW having a derm condition isnt a compelling reason. I had a root canal once... Im not going to dental school.

Noone, besides you - yourself, is saying that your career is over. Most of us would try to get into what we like second best for now. Or, we'd do research and try again next year. Hearing you say that you dont like Anything second best really throws everyone for a loop.

BTW, I dont know the details of New York Methodist, but I do know that some programs in that area take only IMGs... but what you dont see is that they have minimum board score requirements of 240-250... and other requirements that sometimes only an IMG has had the time to achieve.

Which brings me to another point.

In your expereince AMGs are better than IMGs. Im not sure if you mean US-IMG or Foreign...In my experience the FMG resident who was an attending cardiologist in his country, and the FMG resident who was an attending ID specialist in his country were better than any AMG resident Ive seen.

 

[Samoa]

Ok, thanks, I guess you more clearly communicated what I was feeling and indeed if you expect to match, it's something hard to take when you don't. However, now I kind of feel worse if you say that it is huge and unrecoverable!! 🙁

I did not say that it is, only that it can be. You are the determining factor in that outcome.

 

[howelljolly]

I guess Im being harsh because you are doing the "why me" thing... and Ive got a countertransferrence issue with that. In all honesty, the minute you really earnestly truly stop doing the "why me" thing, you'll feel better. If you dont believe me, read any religious book... they all tell you the same.

 

[abbaroodle]

Again, you need to step back for a minute. You need to stop questioning why you didnt match derm. Instead you need to start figuring out what you are going to do next. You will have more than enough opportunities to question the whole application process.

Also, if you get a residency in psych, you dont have to do psych "the rest of your life." You need to practice long enough until you are ready to quit medicine and financially able to do so wwhich could be a year or two after finished residency, when you have kids and want to stay home with them, or when you are 75, or until you want to switch to a different field or career. Nothing is "forever."

What you see during your psych rotation probably doesnt reflect the way psych is practiced by most psychiatrists. Most of it is out-pt based with very few doing hospitalized pts or in-pt consults. It might be a great "backup" for you since it is relatively physically stress-free (as far as your medical condition), its reasonable to try to get into it, and you actually liked it a bit during your rotation.

Whatever you do now, please dont do anything you will regret later!!! Do not send any inflammatory e-mails to anyone, do not scream or blame anyone else (except into your pillow or diary), do not tell psych or anesthesiology or rads folks that you are only going to do it if you cant get anything better, do not resign from medicine or "drop out" of med school a month before you graduate. Etc.

And listen to your family and loved ones! They know you well and love you and want whats best for you. If they think you should keep going, I would consider that very seriously!

 

[MrBurns10]

I understand the frustrations people are having with the OP's threads, but why is everyone getting on her case about not liking anything except derm? I know plenty of med students who are interested in only one field. Heck, I'm pretty much one of them (a second specialty is a distant second). The various fields in medicine are so different, it's easy to want to do only one or very few of them for 50-60 hours a week for the next 30+ years.

MSQ, do whatever you have to do to get into derm next year. Also, make sure you apply to far more programs (a friend of mine with good scores applied to 95). Don't start any more posts with "But..." Just DO it. Best of luck to you.

 

[Elfy]

Yes I do. If you like OB, I have no problem with that. But I had a terrible experience in OB-they belittled us, ridiculed us, and the residents even back stabbed each other, which is something I have not seen in other rotations/specialties. They also did things that were outright dangerous.

No, I don't despise IMG's-never said that.

I wouldn't do OB for a living although I got a maximal grade in that rotation. I respect OB however for the difference it can make in women's lives when practiced properly, not just because the attendings happened to be civil to us (which they were). I was post mature (born at ten months, weighed eleven pounds at birth although I am underweight now) so my mother depended heavily on her OB. Happens to the best of us sometimes. Also, I was nursing my terminally ill mother during my OB rotation (both parents died during my last year of med school) so my mind wasn't really on OB, rather on automatic pilot.

I am not sure if you are terribly prejudiced, or are just phrasing things terribly. You don't understand how lucky you are just to have your parents see you graduate from medical school, not to mention having them guide your first steps in a foreign country. I had to do this all alone. Think about that when you scapegoat the next IMG for whatever happens to go wrong in your life at that moment.

Everyone failed something or other in medical school. Many in the medical field overcame, or will overcome at some point, some sort of personal tragedy they believe is unique but really isn't. Get over it and just hope your worst life tragedy is behind you.

 

[Samoa]

I am not a person on a "high-horse
rampage. Just someone completely offended by this person who quite obviously thinks very little of IMG/FMGs, and who just because she is an AMG she "derserved" a residency slot.

Let me preface this by saying: I don't think AMGs are inherently better doctors in any way than IMGs or FMGs.

However. I do think that the U.S. residency system does have an obligation to train the graduates of this country's own medical schools in preference to those of foreign schools. If for no other reason than because it is in the government's interest to be repaid the large sums of money it lends to U.S. medical students for the purpose of paying medical school tuition. Most foreign countries educate their physicians without saddling them with such excessive debt, and this is partly what allows them to come here and work in someone's lab for peanuts and a strong recommendation, so they can compete successfully for U.S. residencies.

Now, you can argue that it's in society's best interest to hire and train the best applicant available, and I wouldn't disagree with you. But all else being equal, I do think the spot should go to the US grad.

The problem is, what does "all else being equal" really mean? The whole selection process is too fuzzy and imprecise to truly sort this out.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Again, you need to step back for a minute. You need to stop questioning why you didnt match derm. Instead you need to start figuring out what you are going to do next. You will have more than enough opportunities to question the whole application process.

Also, if you get a residency in psych, you dont have to do psych "the rest of your life." You need to practice long enough until you are ready to quit medicine and financially able to do so wwhich could be a year or two after finished residency, when you have kids and want to stay home with them, or when you are 75, or until you want to switch to a different field or career. Nothing is "forever."

What you see during your psych rotation probably doesnt reflect the way psych is practiced by most psychiatrists. Most of it is out-pt based with very few doing hospitalized pts or in-pt consults. It might be a great "backup" for you since it is relatively physically stress-free (as far as your medical condition), its reasonable to try to get into it, and you actually liked it a bit during your rotation.

Whatever you do now, please dont do anything you will regret later!!! Do not send any inflammatory e-mails to anyone, do not scream or blame anyone else (except into your pillow or diary), do not tell psych or anesthesiology or rads folks that you are only going to do it if you cant get anything better, do not resign from medicine or "drop out" of med school a month before you graduate. Etc.

And listen to your family and loved ones! They know you well and love you and want whats best for you. If they think you should keep going, I would consider that very seriously!

It's not just doing "something"-for goodness sake, I have dedicated a large part of my adult life to this. I would think I would have a right to try to get into something i love no?

I have not sent any inflammatory emails to anyone. I have sent very polite emails to some PD's to see if the could help.

I just am not sure what to do know. I had a plan all set out even if I didn't match into derm. For most people who have worked with me, they have loved my work ethic and skills and have thought I was great. I've seen people even do rotations in derm through their prelim and the faculty like them sufficiently to later allow them in the derm program. But since I don't have a prelim, that's a problem.

I guess you are right about listening to my family and husband, they do love me and want the best for me.

I'll see what happens in the next few months.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Let me preface this by saying: I don't think AMGs are inherently better doctors in any way than IMGs or FMGs.

However. I do think that the U.S. residency system does have an obligation to train the graduates of this country's own medical schools in preference to those of foreign schools. If for no other reason than because it is in the government's interest to be repaid the large sums of money it lends to U.S. medical students for the purpose of paying medical school tuition. Most foreign countries educate their physicians without saddling them with such excessive debt, and this is partly what allows them to come here and work in someone's lab for peanuts and a strong recommendation, so they can compete successfully for U.S. residencies.

Now, you can argue that it's in society's best interest to hire and train the best applicant available, and I wouldn't disagree with you. But all else being equal, I do think the spot should go to the US grad.

The problem is, what does "all else being equal" really mean? The whole selection process is too fuzzy and imprecise to truly sort this out.

Exactly!!! I couldn't agree more

 

[Medstudentquest]

I wouldn't do OB for a living although I got a maximal grade in that rotation. I respect OB however for the difference it can make in women's lives when practiced properly, not just because the attendings happened to be civil to us (which they were). I was post mature (born at ten months, weighed eleven pounds at birth although I am underweight now) so my mother depended heavily on her OB. Happens to the best of us sometimes. Also, I was nursing my terminally ill mother during my OB rotation (both parents died during my last year of med school) so my mind wasn't really on OB, rather on automatic pilot.

I am not sure if you are terribly prejudiced, or are just phrasing things terribly. You don't understand how lucky you are just to have your parents see you graduate from medical school, not to mention having them guide your first steps in a foreign country. I had to do this all alone. Think about that when you scapegoat the next IMG for whatever happens to go wrong in your life at that moment.

Everyone failed something or other in medical school. Many in the medical field overcame, or will overcome at some point, some sort of personal tragedy they believe is unique but really isn't. Get over it and just hope your worst life tragedy is behind you.

I'm sorry about your parents. 🙁

 

[Medstudentquest]

I understand the frustrations people are having with the OP's threads, but why is everyone getting on her case about not liking anything except derm? I know plenty of med students who are interested in only one field. Heck, I'm pretty much one of them (a second specialty is a distant second). The various fields in medicine are so different, it's easy to want to do only one or very few of them for 50-60 hours a week for the next 30+ years.

MSQ, do whatever you have to do to get into derm next year. Also, make sure you apply to far more programs (a friend of mine with good scores applied to 95). Don't start any more posts with "But..." Just DO it. Best of luck to you.

Thanks MrBurns

 

[abbaroodle]

It's not just doing "something"-for goodness sake, I have dedicated a large part of my adult life to this. I would think I would have a right to try to get into something i love no?

Yes, you should try again for derm. You owe it to yourself to give it another shot. Hopefully you will get your 1st choice residency! But you also need to think about the possibility of not matching in derm and what you Plan B is.

Unfortunately, sometimes we can try our hardest for something, and it just doesnt work out. You need to be prepared for that possibility. And if it happens, make some lemonade out of the lemons and go into Plan B excited and ready to make the most of it!

You have probably spent most of the past few years in med school preparing to be a physician with most of your class time and rotations not specifically derm-oriented, even if you had the intention of going into derm. Remind yourself of that when thinking about Plan B!

I have not sent any inflammatory emails to anyone. I have sent very polite emails to some PD's to see if the could help.

Just making sure! Its easy to get angry and make decisions we regret later!

I just am not sure what to do know. I had a plan all set out even if I didn't match into derm. For most people who have worked with me, they have loved my work ethic and skills and have thought I was great. I've seen people even do rotations in derm through their prelim and the faculty like them sufficiently to later allow them in the derm program. But since I don't have a prelim, that's a problem.

I understand. Its a ****ty situation. You can only make the most of it now. Keep applying and calling and e-mailing for a prelim spot. Keep looking for a reserach fellowship. Keep studying for boards. Keep networking in different specialties to help yourself be prepared to act on your Plan B next year if you need it.

I guess you are right about listening to my family and husband, they do love me and want the best for me.

Isnt it great to be loved and have a supportive spouse and family!!! Make sure to tell them how much you appreciate their support during this tough time!!!

 

[John Deere Gree]

MSQ: I felt sorry for you at the very beginning. Now I don't. Keep crying and see where that gets you.

This message board needs some of this...

MSQ is now on my ignore list and life on here will return to normal

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I despise OB. And I don't like surgery and have done rotations in ENT, ortho, ophtho, and others. and physically I couldn't do surgery.
I don't like working with children so peds is out.

So if I can't get in, what am I supposed to do? I enjoyed my anesthesia rotation in med school and almost did an externship in it as well. I have to prepare myself for the fact that I may not be able to get into derm. 🙁

The pieces of the puzzle come together.

 

[Tigerz_Fan]

Let me preface this by saying: I don't think AMGs are inherently better doctors in any way than IMGs or FMGs.

However. I do think that the U.S. residency system does have an obligation to train the graduates of this country's own medical schools in preference to those of foreign schools. If for no other reason than because it is in the government's interest to be repaid the large sums of money it lends to U.S. medical students for the purpose of paying medical school tuition. Most foreign countries educate their physicians without saddling them with such excessive debt, and this is partly what allows them to come here and work in someone's lab for peanuts and a strong recommendation, so they can compete successfully for U.S. residencies.

Now, you can argue that it's in society's best interest to hire and train the best applicant available, and I wouldn't disagree with you. But all else being equal, I do think the spot should go to the US grad.

The problem is, what does "all else being equal" really mean? The whole selection process is too fuzzy and imprecise to truly sort this out.

I'm not sure if I totally agree with the first part, but I do agree with the fact the entire selection process is "fuzzy and imprecise."

To the OP: in the beginning of the thread you did not choose your words wisely. I can promise you that you have offended many people in the forum. As you know, I am one of them. Several people have given you great advice in this thread. I suggest you listen to them, and stop posting to avoid further damage. I am not totally clear on what your real feelings are towards IMGs, but you implied in the beginning that they were sub-par. You need to learn to keep an open mind because you will be working with them for the rest of your life (should you decide not to quit).

 

[howelljolly]

Isnt it great to be loved and have a supportive spouse and family!!! Make sure to tell them how much you appreciate their support during this tough time!!!

And when you do, remember that some medical students dont have these.

 

[Tigerz_Fan]

MSQ: I felt sorry for you at the very beginning. Now I don't. Keep crying and see where that gets you.

This message board needs some of this...

MSQ is now on my ignore list and life on here will return to normal

I will not feed the troll anymore! I shall return to my world of IMG suckiness!

 

[Samoa]

MSQ: I felt sorry for you at the very beginning. Now I don't. Keep crying and see where that gets you.

This message board needs some of this...

MSQ is now on my ignore list and life on here will return to normal

I seriously doubt that MSQ is trolling. Immature, probably. Wallowing in self-pity, certainly. But not a troll.

You, however, are being a jackass.

 

[Medstudentquest]

The pieces of the puzzle come together.

What do you mean? We are required by our school to do a bunch of surgical rotations, and like I said, I cant physically do them. The rest is self explanatory

 

[jiy76]

A guy doesnt get into derm and is blaming IMG's. I have heard it all.Part of the residency process is the interview.You could have won a noble prize and scored 3 sd above the mean on the steps but a dbag is a dbag no matter how you dress it up.

 

[Medstudentquest]

I'm not sure if I totally agree with the first part, but I do agree with the fact the entire selection process is "fuzzy and imprecise."

To the OP: in the beginning of the thread you did not choose your words wisely. I can promise you that you have offended many people in the forum. As you know, I am one of them. Several people have given you great advice in this thread. I suggest you listen to them, and stop posting to avoid further damage. I am not totally clear on what your real feelings are towards IMGs, but you implied in the beginning that they were sub-par. You need to learn to keep an open mind because you will be working with them for the rest of your life (should you decide not to quit).

I apologize if I have offended you.

 

[Samoa]

I'm not sure if I totally agree with the first part, ...."

I wouldn't expect you to. It's human nature for our opinions to be self-serving. Certainly mine is, but at least I've expressed some objective rationale other than my own best interest for holding such a view.

 

[mgdsh]

Let me preface this by saying: I don't think AMGs are inherently better doctors in any way than IMGs or FMGs.

However. I do think that the U.S. residency system does have an obligation to train the graduates of this country's own medical schools in preference to those of foreign schools. If for no other reason than because it is in the government's interest to be repaid the large sums of money it lends to U.S. medical students for the purpose of paying medical school tuition. Most foreign countries educate their physicians without saddling them with such excessive debt, and this is partly what allows them to come here and work in someone's lab for peanuts and a strong recommendation, so they can compete successfully for U.S. residencies.

Now, you can argue that it's in society's best interest to hire and train the best applicant available, and I wouldn't disagree with you. But all else being equal, I do think the spot should go to the US grad.

The problem is, what does "all else being equal" really mean? The whole selection process is too fuzzy and imprecise to truly sort this out.

That's really a bunch of crap. I went to a 'foreign' (Ross) medical school, yet all my loans were through the US.

I mean are you honestly telling me that in every company in this country should also give preference to students that have graduated from Universities of the US just because they are more likely to have taken loans out from this country?

Also, FWIW, most people have a guarantor on their loans. In the event someone is unable to repay their loans their guarantor (most likely their parents) would be forced to repay those loans.

 

[Medstudentquest]

I seriously doubt that MSQ is trolling. Immature, probably. Wallowing in self-pity, certainly. But not a troll.

You, however, are being a jackass.

I am wallowing in self-pity and I feel distraught. I'll get over it in due time and certainly,I'm not a troll.

I agree with your second assessment.

 

[novastorm]

i don't think there needs to be anything else said. fish or cut bait as our English friends might say.

 

[howelljolly]

What do you mean? We are required by our school to do a bunch of surgical rotations, and like I said, I cant physically do them. The rest is self explanatory

What he means is that you have done rotations in Derm, Anesthesia, ENT, Optho, and Ortho... youve dabbled in only the highest paying of specialties... Again, a dig at your character.

 

[Medstudentquest]

What he means is that you have done rotations in Derm, Anesthesia, ENT, Optho, and Ortho... youve dabbled in only the highest paying of specialties... Again, a dig at your character.

I don't think you understood. I wanted to go into derm, so I did derm specialties.

Anesthesia, ortho, ophtho, ENT, etc. etc are all REQUIRED rotations we have to do. Can't graduate if you don't do them.