Caribbean

[whitesoxfan2000]

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I know the 2 major med schools in the Caribbean are St. George's and Ross? How hard is it to get into these schools? How much harder is it to get a residency with a foreign degree as opposed to a U.S. degree? What are the living conditions like? Any general info on Caribbean medical schools would be appreciated. thanks

 

[eagle26]

hmmmm..I've heard that Carribbean schooling is the lowest in the tiers...less of an education and high attrition rates...I wouldn't recommend it just because of excellent scuba diving 🙂.

 

[SnudgeMuffin]

Like Joseph said, I wouldn't recommend it unless you got rejected by all the medical schools you applied. Even then, I would try again the second time. If all else fails, but you still want to become a doctor, then I would go to Carribean. I don't think those schools are difficult to get into at all, like you said, you have to think about getting a residency in US. Even though those two schools claim that they have very high number of their graduates getting US residencies, I still think that you might be at a disadvantage unless you do fantastic on your USMLE. With all the qualifications being equal, US residency will go to US graduates over Carribean graduates anyday.

 

[mpp]

Originally posted by whitesoxfan2000:
•I know the 2 major med schools in the Caribbean are St. George's and Ross? How hard is it to get into these schools? •••

How difficult is it for you to write out a check?

 

[dknykid1980]

Ok first off whoever wrote the things above truly do not have a clue about what they're saying.

I've talking to many med school students at these schools, furthermore, I've talked to some residency directors. Yes, right now it is a little easier to get to those two schools you mentioned. However, all that is changing, last time I checked Ross's matriculation GPA avg was like a 3.3 (America's is around a 3.4).

I've talked to the admisisons counselors at the two schools you mentioned and they even told me try at least twice to get into the states..if all else fails go to the carib.

However, then I talked to some residency students and they told me that once you're in residency everyone's equal. Plus at this hospital, there's an individual there that's the chief resident (at cook county hosp in chicago) that graduated from Ross. I then went and talked to him. He told me that initially, yah he was a little ashamed to say anything. However, he found that he got the best education (even better than American schools) because it was more hands on. He said, out in the carib, you actually get to have more hands on interaction with patients (cuz obviously there's no lawsuits and etc out there). Plus he was telling me it's an experience that truly is something that is a bonus. He told me how the docs are always asking him about his experience and all.

Plus if you look at it, he told me, what does it matter where you went to school as long as you get to the position you want. I mean honestly, you're becoming a MD to help others (well ideally) so does it matter where you went if you got an excellent education? Ross's facilities are soooooo much nicer and newer than even most US schools. In addition, ROSS and SGU students have to score hell of a lot higher on the USMLE's than US students (wouldnt that prove that they are just as good or even better).

I guess my closing lines are simply what that kid who was the chief resid told me. He said, if you go to Finch, UIC, or practically an med school you're always going to be made fun of or put down by the IVy leaguers. Basically, if you are always looking at what other ppl are gonna say about you, you arent gonna really win this namesake battle unless you go to an IVY league school or Oxford. ALSO, these students from ROss have gotten residencies (mostly internal med, fam pract, but surgery and stuff are common) at hospitals that cater to graduates from Ivy Leaguers doesnt that meant they are just as good.

Anyways, thats my 2 cents. Well it was prolly a little more than that. Nevertheless, hope this helps, as far as I'm concerned I'd rather go there than wait an year (gosh its a whole year of your life!!! I know ppl say its just one year, but heck life is short!!!) Those individuals who talk trash about carib are simply jealous (because what I said there really is no difference in how one ends up) or just feeling stupid they didnt go to a carib school cuz now after waiting 2 years for a med school they are at home picking their butts.

Ok..well if you have anymore Q's either post them or even go to the International Forum or even the Allopathic Forum.

 

[Incendiary]

dknykid1980, I think there is some truth to what you say. Caribbean med students do very well on the USMLE, but that is because they MUST if they want even a remote shot at a US residency. Also, I'm sure hands-on experience is wonderful over there, but what kinds of cases do you see? Med schools in the US generally see a very diverse caseload because there is a greater diversity of people on the mainland.

However, what you say about where you end up is true. You definitely learn the most about your field in residency and during fellowships, so even if you went to Joe Bob's Skool of Medikine and Auto Repair (which I founded yesterday in my backyard, anyone who wants in is in), as long as you end up at MGH or whatever, you're golden. But, it is definitely much easier to get into a good residency program if you're a student from the States.

Also, I just want to say that I think all the world of Osteopathic Medicine. It gets a bum rap by all the Allopathic docs, but they learn what allopathic students learn and more.

Lastly, is Oxford considered a good medical school? I know Oxbridge is good at a lot of stuff, but I just can't imagine that their medicine is all that fantastic when students in high school are forced to make a career decision at such a young age... (I think I just opened up a big can of worms by saying that, what with all the students in those 7- and 8-year programs who will probably read this, but hey, look at my screen name...).

🙂 (to assuage any of you whom I've angered)

 

[dknykid1980]

INcendiary-

exactly. I agree with you that US students have an easier time, nevertheles, they are not superior. Especially nowadays, most med schools (actually the carib have BETTER facilities, if you dont believe me check their websites sgu.edu or rossmed.edu) have the same technologies and teaching abilities. Bottom line as a physician YOU the doc have to know what you're doing. We all know that in college let alone high school ppl get away with lots of things (like even getting into certain IVY league schools) cuz of their parents or $$$$. Therefore, I truly believe that it is solely the doctor and his capability as a physician that determines his his stature as a physician. Plus, I'm not the only one saying this, lots of people who have worked wiht Carib MD's are realizing this (that they know just as much or even more).

ALso the whole diverse case you are referring to. I understand there is that issue, however, when I was speaking to a Dean (a friend of mine that was at one of these schools) he told me that people are the same wherever. In fact if anything, the worse case scenarios are found in the carib. Furthermore, if you were to do all your training in Florida, the cases that you run into in Maine are going to be vastly different. Also, I dont know if you all know but, in Ross you are literally down in the Carib for 1.5 yrs. then you are in Larkin MEd facility in FL for .5 years. THen you do all you're rotations in either NY, NJ, IL, or practically anywhere. So although ppl call Ross or SGU a Caribbean school ur actually there for only 1.5yrs! Think of it as a life enriching experience, which truly from the individuals I've talked it seems like it is. ALso, I dont knwo if ppl here have been receiving those fliers form Barry University in FL. THey are sending fliers out (basically a joint collaboration by barry and St. George's saying that one should pursue a premed and med experience respectively at those school) which means a US school is actually recognizing, moreover collaborating with a foreign move. I personally feel that others will most likely follow this trend because ppl are realizing how advantageous this is. MD's are scarce in a lot of places and especially after the whole Baby Boomer generation retires, MD's will be in need.

Also one more note. I know it was mentioned that DO's can do everything MD's can do. This is true. Infact DO's do something in addition, OMT (osteopathic manipulative technique--something close to what chiropractors do). THe only thing is this, take it for what its worth. Patients (here we have to assume that the sample population will be educated and uneducated) will know what a DO is and if they re asked whether they want a MD or a DO at a hospital, I've been told by DO residents that patients prefer MD's (notice patients dont know if you went to Harvard for med school or Finch----only the initials MD after your name). Nevertheless, I've shadowed a great DO who knew his stuff (ok well he didnt know that much about the actual medicines he was prescribing because I saw him go into hte other room and frequently as the MD what was goign on)and he is very successful. I think in private pract DO's are more successful, however, life's rough for them in a hospital setting.

O anyone that doubts any of this info as being true, just go and ask a Carib grad or resident yourself and I know they'll tell you the same thing.

peace

 

[lilic]

"However, all that is changing, last time I checked Ross's matriculation GPA avg was like a 3.3 (America's is around a 3.4)."

The last time you checked? That's the problem, you can't find any of that information anywhere. We can only go by what people say.

"cuz obviously there's no lawsuits and etc out there".

Exactly, can we really trust what they say? The average US GPA is actually higher. If they are so close in number, why do people go to Ross only after multiple failures at gaining entrance to the US? To tell you the truth, the lack of lawsuits scares me more than it comforts me.

"Plus if you look at it, he told me, what does it matter where you went to school as long as you get to the position you want."

True, but the problem is getting that position. According to the national residency match program, between 50-60% of foreign students fail to match into US residencies. The ones that do are from more reputable countries such as Canada, England (Oxford), or Australia. Foreign medical students often take time off to study for the USMLE because they must do well on the exam. Despite needing to do well more than 1/3 fail the exam. This causes a delay of at least one year in applying because they also have other tests that US students do not. I have met Ross and SGU grads and they tell me that many people do not make it to the fourth year. What percentage of the first year Ross students actually finish the program in four years AND find a spot in a US residency? The ones who do graduate and jump through the hula hoops and make it to a good US residency do deserve respect. The problem is that the schools never really tell you what percentage make it from the start of the program and how many years it takes them on average. You cannot find a match list for Ross and if you could who knows if it is "doctored".

"Those individuals who talk trash about carib are simply jealous (because what I said there really is no difference in how one ends up) or just feeling stupid they didnt go to a carib school cuz now after waiting 2 years for a med school they are at home picking their butts."

I am not jealous just realistic. I have not gotten in yet but if I don't I will apply again. I just do not want to spend five to six years in a third world country, owe nearly 150K-200K, and then not match and come back to the US to pick my butt. I can do that for free in America and in two years time - that's the American way! If 'ur gonna pick your butt, why pay for it and put in more work than ya need to! It's all about efficiency, baby! 😛

 

[moo]

Actually, a friend of mine ended up at AUC and he told me that about 1/2 the class ended up dropping out after the first semester/block. Perhaps more indicative of the caliber of students rather than the teaching.

 

[Incendiary]

Whoa, lilic, whoa. You spew such venom. I must take issue with you on one thing: what's wrong with picking your butt? I find it to be a highly pleasureable activity. I plan to defer my medical school matriculation for at least a year so that I can do some quality butt picking. 😀

 

[lilic]

Originally posted by dknykid1980:
•INcendiary-

I agree with you that US students have an easier time, nevertheles, they are not superior. Especially nowadays, most med schools (actually the carib have BETTER facilities, if you dont believe me check their websites sgu.edu or rossmed.edu) have the same technologies and teaching abilities. •••

You are kidding about the caribs having better facilites than US schools, right? Please say you are! Your evidence is the SGU and ROSS website, the ones where the law cannot touch? Did these research skills get you into the MSTP program at Ross? 🙄

Originally posted by Incendiary:
•Whoa, lilic, whoa. You spew such venom. I must take issue with you on one thing: what's wrong with picking your butt? I find it to be a highly pleasureable activity. I plan to defer my medical school matriculation for at least a year so that I can do some quality butt picking. 😀 •••

😀 I guess I got a little defensive about the generalization about pre-meds who do not want to leave the US for a money mill m.d. I also do not appreciate him making it seem like it is silly not to go to the caribs, since the facilites are BETTER and the training and technology is the same. I have worked too hard to make myself an attractive candidate for US schools for him to make it seem like my efforts were for naught. I will say he is right about people not knowing if you got a carrib m.d. or a US M.D. Don't fool yourself into thinking that patients don't care when they do find out. I find it disturbing how caribs almost take pride over the fact that patients do not know. There is a huge difference between the respect a US MD commands and a carib md does. To be perfectly honest, I feel that they should have different letters so people do know.

P.S. I enjoy butt picking too! I plan to do plenty of it this entire summer if I get in. 🙂 🙂

 

[DesperatelySeekingMD]

Wow, lilic- go back to bed and get up on the other side...wow. I am glad that you let all of that hate out and just didn't keep it inside where it could explode in another form. But, where did all of that come from? Have you been wronged in someway by a doctor who was educated at Ross or SGU? Are you just bitter and fed up with this whole process-totally understandable, but wrong place to project that anger, we all feel it!
I know that these schools are not an option for you, but if someone has unsuccessfully applied to US schools and dreams of being a doctor, than they are definitely a GOOD option. I will speak to SGU, since I have a good friend who goes there and know quite a bit about the school....
Here are a few good facts....(whitesoxfan2000- I hope this is helpful to you).
SGU has an average entering GPA of 3.4 and MCAT of V8 P9 B9. 93% of student pass the USMLEI the first time (higher than US average). 95-100% of graduates who are U.S. citizens obtain ACGME-approved residency positions in the US. They have graduates in all subspecialties and about 20% of there grads go on to be Chief Residents in their subspecialty. And as for admission, they get 7-9 applications for every place.
The US dept. of Ed also must think something of them because SGU med students qualify for all federal loan programs.
It is true that there is a large dropout rate, which completely has to do with the caliber of performance that they expect. They except larger numbers of students and give them a chance at becoming a doctor, but they HAVE to perform well or they are out. It is a ruthless system, but it speaks to the quality of student that they are graduating.

There is a huge difference between the respect a US MD commands and a carib md does. To be perfectly honest, I feel that they should have different letters so people do know.
••
I am just wondering why someone who has learned the exact same information as you have, has taken the same standadized exams, has rotated in the same US hospitals and worked their ass off just as hard as you (if not harder to be taken seriously by narrow minded people) should be considered any less qualified? I don't understand the logic here....
By all means going this way is not the perferred route of going to med school, but if being a physician is a dream, go for it. Know that it will be hard and you will have to work your butt off- probably harder than most US students. But, trust that you will work with many physicians that value you not for the school that you went to, but the kind of person that you are and the manner in which you practice medicine. Medicine is a TEAM effort and I know that I would much rather work with competant, caring colleagues from any med school, than egotistical, self righteous colleagues from a top tier school. The school that you graduate from does not reflect what kind of doctor you will be- that you will decide for yourself.
Good luck.
And Whitesoxfan2000- you can private message me if you have any questions that I might be able to help you with....

 

[deleted4401]

Okay, quoting that 93% USMLE pass rate for SGU is getting borderline ridiculous ...

That number is so far off if you include all the people that enrolled. How about giving me retention rate and then the 93% rate of the retainees? That would be a fair stat.

Are you saying that the U.S. schools couldn't compete with that number if they were allowed to subtract the kids that they didn't feel were at the cut? Plus, a lot of U.S. schools don't even require passage of the boards ... so there is more statistical artifact, b/c if a SGU kid fails and then drops out he isn't counted in the board failure rate ... a U.S. kid fails the boards at some schools, moves on to the wards, and eventually passes the boards. But, they have to report a fail.

And the facilities? Please. My close relative is there. For your first semester at SGU, prepare for misery. They don't move you to the "True Blue" campus until 2nd year (or is it 2nd semester). The freshman dorm doesn't have warm water, and it isn't a nice building. That should tell you something right there. All the kids take solace in the fact that it is only 18 months there. And none of them will tell you that they prefer to be there over a US school because of the amazing technology and facilities.

Don't get me wrong, I think SGU is a great option, b/c all that matters to me is if a person can pass the boards and get an MD/DO after their name. At that point, all that will matter is their clinical skills, and that's the gauge I will use to measure a colleague.

Please don't believe the catalogues or the school reps. Talk to real students and real graduates. They'll probably tell you the same thing: if you stick it out and work hard, you'll get to be a doctor.

Good luck,

Simul

 

[DesperatelySeekingMD]

Of course most schools would have a much better pass rate if they could say who could take the USMLE, which SGU does with practice test cut offs...if you don't score above a certain score on the practice test, then they will not sponsor you for the USMLE. That is not my point...
In fact, it supports my point- that going to a foreign school is not a cakewalk. It is a much harder route in many ways. You have to work harder and really prove yourself- But there is no way that the graduates from those schools are any less qualified than US grads....they have done the exact same things that US students have. Of course, a US school is the best option (I don't know anyone who would choose it over any school in the US), but if that is not an option for you...then go for it and be prepared that there are many hoops you are going to have to jump through....but if you work you butt off then you will be an MD.
SGU starts with a huge class that gives a chance to many students who would make great docs, but didn't quite make the cut in the narrow lines that are drawn by many US schools. Then while you are there you have to prove yourself or you are gone, they ONLY graduate qualified physicians. I think it is great that they give more people a chance to be an MD, look at all the great applicants I have met on this board who have had trouble getting in for some reason. Many have amazing stories, have done great things, but there is some reason they can't quite make the US cut-off. I am so happy for all of you that have gotten in or will get in this year after trying repeated times...your committment is amazing. But, for those of you who don't please don't just give up on your dreams without exploring this option. You have to really look into it and know what you are getting into, but don't let anyone dissuade you until you have done your own homework....good luck.

 

[eagle26]

Hence the high attrition rate.....note: it seems that these schools are not concerned with the well-being of their students unlike other U.S. schools.

 

[eagle26]

True..the weeding out occurs at the end rather than the beginning, allowing those who wouldn't make U.S. initial cutoffs to improve and become competetive.

 

[WSUreds]

So which one of you goes to Foreign school? Everyone is getting quite defensive here and I just think that no matter what, you should do what is best for you, either here in the US or abroad.

 

[DesperatelySeekingMD]

I just think that no matter what, you should do what is best for you, either here in the US or abroad. ••
I couldn't have said it better myself (which you can see is true from reading my long drawn out posts 😛 ). I don't mean to be defensive 😀 I just don't want people to close off there options too early.
I am happy to say that despite AMCAS best efforts to foil all of our plans, I will be attending med school next year in the good ole USA.

 

[eagle26]

LOL..I love that. AMCAS' attempts to foil our plans. I was brooding for the longest time about filing a class action suit again AMCAS..........maybe that's for another thread...hehe..

 

[lilic]

Originally posted by DesperatelySeekingMD:
•Of course most schools would have a much better pass rate if they could say who could take the USMLE, which SGU does with practice test cut offs...if you don't score above a certain score on the practice test, then they will not sponsor you for the USMLE. That is not my point...
In fact, it supports my point- that going to a foreign school is not a cakewalk. It is a much harder route in many ways. You have to work harder and really prove yourself- But there is no way that the graduates from those schools are any less qualified than US grads....they have done the exact same things that US students have. Of course, a US school is the best option (I don't know anyone who would choose it over any school in the US), but if that is not an option for you...then go for it and be prepared that there are many hoops you are going to have to jump through....but if you work you butt off then you will be an MD.
SGU starts with a huge class that gives a chance to many students who would make great docs, but didn't quite make the cut in the narrow lines that are drawn by many US schools. Then while you are there you have to prove yourself or you are gone, they ONLY graduate qualified physicians. I think it is great that they give more people a chance to be an MD, look at all the great applicants I have met on this board who have had trouble getting in for some reason. Many have amazing stories, have done great things, but there is some reason they can't quite make the US cut-off. I am so happy for all of you that have gotten in or will get in this year after trying repeated times...your committment is amazing. But, for those of you who don't please don't just give up on your dreams without exploring this option. You have to really look into it and know what you are getting into, but don't let anyone dissuade you until you have done your own homework....good luck.•••

So are you saying that this is a good thing SGU does this? What if UC Irvine dumped half of its students? Say they give them a practice USMLE and if they don't pass the magic number, they are dropped. I'll bet that their average USMLE scores would be higher since only the best students will remain. I bet their students will get better residencies than UCLA. They could then go onto claim a 100% pass rate and an average USMLE score of 238. Is this a fair assessment and a good indication for pass rate? Are their students better than UCLA?

So what happens to the rest of the original SGU class who gets kicked out? What happens to the other 50% who has taken over $60,000 out in loans? If there is such a fine line between US students and Foreign ones then why kick half of them out when US schools do not? Why give practice tests with cutoff numbers to determine if they will pass? Is this to artificially inflate the numbers?

When you go to medical school next year, do you think your school would be better if they kicked out 50% of the students who are not performing up to par? I'll bet the average remaining student would be much better than the original group. Why can't P=MD at SGU if they are just as good? Is it because they would have lower pass rates and higher unmatch rates? Do they care about numbers more than students? If they were teaching the students what they needed to know, would there still be a 50% dropout rate the Caribbean schools. Does the fact that they are not learning what they need to know for the USMLE the fault of the school or the student?

I know I was in a bad mood yesterday but these are valid questions. What happens to the rest of the students? Why can't they screen the students better and help them do well on the USMLE? That's the scary part of going to the Caribbean. You can not pass their practice USMLE and not be allowed to take it. Every other person you know will be kicked out. While their graduates may do fine, what happens to the rest of the group? You've actually made me feel sorry for these students now. Things are worse there than I had thought. I think that SGU is really doing a disservice to their students by kicking them out if they don't pass the SGU standards. 🙄

 

[DesperatelySeekingMD]

I am not saying it is a perfect system or even that I agree with it...but students know this going in...they are not blind to it. And there is help available. But, it is a serious decision to go there and not to be taken lightly. For many people it is there last resort, but it can be done. It just takes a lot of hard work and committment to be a physician. And you will be just as qualified as a US grad.
I don't think that it is 50%, but I don't really know for sure...as others said, talk to grads or students...the ones that I know work very hard, are very capable, would have liked to go to schools in the US, but are making the best of everything and getting a good education. I personally would have a little trouble concentrating...living on such a beautiful island, but I can assure you when my friend came home- he had less color than I do(and I am one pale lady).

 

[dknykid1980]

I laugh at those that dont believe going to the carib is a viable option.

First off, a MD is an MD wherever you go. Go to any hospital in the states. ALMOST all the good MD's are all foreign!!! You guys think this is an accident? Foreign MD's are better because they have more hands on experience and interaction with patients where those from the states dont necessarily have that opportunity.

I think the individual who said that one should go and talk to a carib alumnus said it the best. They wont lie to you about how hard it is, yet they'll tell you that they are just as qualified and in my opinion MORE qualified than US MD's and DO's for that matter.

peace

 

[Incendiary]

Yeah, then go and talk to a US med school graduate, and they'll tell you that the US is the best. Go to England, and they'll say the English are the best.

Come to my school, Joe Bob's Skool of Medikine and Auto Repair, and I'll tell you I'm the best. 🙄

 

[Jessica]

I know a second year at Ross, and I would say based on what he has told me, don't trust their USMLE pass rates. The school decides whether you are ready to take the exam or not... if you have a good GPA at Ross (above a 3.0 I think) they will let you take the test, if not, you take a 1 semester prep class (paying the Ross tuition for that semester) and if you do well in that, then you can take the test. They do this to make sure that their pass rate stays in an "acceptable attractive" range.
And, it is not as easy to get in as writing a check! They do have SOME standards. A close friend of mine who graduated from a UC with a 2.9 and a 27 MCAT didn't get into any US schools and was also rejected from Ross and SGU, despite an "open checkbook"

 

[Leotigers]

Originally posted by dknykid1980:
•
First off, a MD is an MD wherever you go. Go to any hospital in the states. ALMOST all the good MD's are all foreign!!! You guys think this is an accident? Foreign MD's are better because they have more hands on experience and interaction with patients where those from the states dont necessarily have that opportunity.

I think the individual who said that one should go and talk to a carib alumnus said it the best. They wont lie to you about how hard it is, yet they'll tell you that they are just as qualified and in my opinion MORE qualified than US MD's and DO's for that matter.

peace•••

I guess Los Angeles County Hospital and MGH just does not compare to the hands-on experience one can get at one of the Club M.eD. schools.

"ALMOST all the good MD's are all foreign!!!"

Any support or credibility you might have had before has been lost with such outrageous statements.

Dknykid1980, I am curious as to what experience you have in healthcare. What experience have you had as being part of a medical team that would allow you to draw such conclusions? If you're not a medical student, resident, or attending, I assume that the only experience you've had is through volunteering or shawdowing a physician.

I think that SGU is the only Caribbean school worthwhile. There are definitely drawbacks and many of the students will tell you as much. Your silly generalizations only makes us think that you really do not know what you are talking about.

As recently as last year, MCAT scores were not required at all at Ross. Now, you can be accepted without MCAT scores but need to sit for it prior to enrolling in classes. Since you have already been accepted, your score does not matter. The MCAT policy for Ross can be found here:

<a href="http://www.rossmed.edu/Medical_School/Admissions/admissions.html" target="_blank">http://www.rossmed.edu/Medical_School/Admissions/admissions.html</a>

I know about Ross because one of my friends went there for school. Once you graduate and find residency it does not matter. The problem is doing just that though and he admitted as much. Many of the graduates there did not match even though many of them were applying to FP, IM, and Psych. Saying that there are admission standards at Ross is a joke. If you have the money, you will have a spot. He told me that he was truly embarrassed by some of the students there and they do in fact graduate from Ross. Attrition rate is high but they also graduate a ton of people who probably should not have graduated. Residency is ultimately where you learn how to be a physician. If you can get there from Ross, more power to you. However, don't fool yourself into thinking that going to Ross will get you into residency or make you into an MD who is better than all his US counterparts.

 

[marleybfour]

As much as I want to be a doctor, going to the any of the "Islands" is just not an option I personally believe in. To be a good doctor, you need to be , not just dedicated, but intelligent. Very intelligent. If I don't get accepted into the US, then to me, it is not meant to be. Dedication and determination means that you are dedicated and determined. These are wonderful attributes......but.... it does NOT mean that you are smart. It does not mean that you are smart enough to be a GOOD physician.

 

[Lubdub]

It's true that it is much easier to get into a Carribbean School, like Ross 3.2, [as reported by medschool.net before they shut down] as opposed to most US MD schools which average about 3.67 [http://www.aamc.org/]

I feel that Carrib schools give those students, who may have not done so well in undergrad, a chance at becoming a doctor.

• If there is such a fine line between US students and Foreign ones then why kick half of them out when US schools do not? Why give practice tests with cutoff numbers to determine if they will pass? Is this to artificially inflate the numbers?
When you go to medical school next year, do you think your school would be better if they kicked out 50% of the students who are not performing up to par? •

To me this intense weeding out process at Ross (and others) is not surprising. This is very similar to the French system, in which almost all applicants are admitted to the first year. After the first year of Med school, a comprehensive exam weeds out 2/3 of the class!! Nevertheless, all applicants are given a shot at medicine in the first year.

Lilic, why doesn't P = MD at Hopkins? Many schools, including Hopkins and Howard have letter grading system.

•As recently as last year, MCAT scores were not required at all at Ross. Now, you can be accepted without MCAT scores but need to sit for it prior to enrolling in classes. Since you have already been accepted, your score does not matter. •

As recently as two years ago Hopkins didn't require MCATs, so what's your point? (This statement was made in jest, please don't attack me by saying "well Hopkins is Hopkins, they even look at high school grades")

The arguement: "these offshore schools don't have as high admission stats as US schools" , just doesn't cut it. Following this logic, one could argue that doctors from SGU (3.4 and 26MCATS) are better than docs from Howard (22MCAT), Morehouse, Finch (3.2GPA) and some others. And that MD's are better than DO's b/c they couldn't cut it.

A doctor is evaluated by his clinical abilities. As I have stated before, if a doctor is incompetent then it will show in his work, regardless from Ross, Harvard, or Hopkins.

•As much as I want to be a doctor, going to the any of the "Islands" is just not an option I personally believe in. To be a good doctor, you need to be , not just dedicated, but intelligent. Very intelligent. If I don't get accepted into the US, then to me, it is not meant to be. Dedication and determination means that you are dedicated and determined. These are wonderful attributes......but.... it does NOT mean that you are smart. It does not mean that you are smart enough to be a GOOD physician. •

Marleybfour , sorry to burst your young and idealistic bubble of medicine which was blown, most likely, by your parents. The reality is that there are many Sh**y doctors; most of them are quite stupid, plagued by their know-it-all attitude and probably kill a few patients. But, the fact is, you don't have to be a brainiac to become a doctor. Bottom line: it may be easy to BECOME a doctor, but to BE one is quite difficult. If becoming a doc, practicing medicine and helping others is your goal, then it makes no difference which path you choose.

It's getting much easier to recognize the freshman bunch of premeds: they think MD's are better than DO's, US docs are better than IMG's, and surgeons better than physicians. Unfortunately, some of these guys never shed their biases and it becomes evident in medical school and throughout life.

Good Luck to all of you 😎

~Lubdub

 

[megkudos]

Hey kids, to each his own 🙂

 

[dknykid1980]

Right on lubdub!!


And marleybfur or whatever, like lubdub stated, MD's are not always the smartest individuals. I was told and now i firmly believe, individuals become docs because they work HARD not because they are necessarily smart. The whole speech about "well if i dont get into the US I'm just not good enough". Well hey if you wanna be someone else's little bi**h and listen to that crap well good for ya. THe real reason why all that is sooooo brainwashed into ppl's heads is because these STUPID prehealth advisors feed these to these young hopeful premeds. I know this because I was a victim to these advisors that dont know jack. I mean why are nonDOcs telling individuals who want to become Docs how to become one? ???? I mean something has to be wrong with this picture.

---peace

 

[caseyvib]

All of you people who are so against the Carribean med schools-what is your problem? Do you really have nothing better to do than argue about something that obviously does not pertain to you. Mind your own business! I hate to say it but you sound like people with unlimited resources and very little life experience. Did your parents pay for your college, AMCAS, secondaries? Grow up and realize we are all not like you.
I myself am a non-trad, have more than five years experience in molecular biology research, a Master of Public Health in Tropical Medicine, and am a veteran. My grades in college could have been better if I had not had to work 30-40 hours a week to support myself. My PS MCAT is a 6 (VR11, BS9)because it has been almost 10 years since I took physics and chemistry. Though I have an interview scheduled for Tulane, I have been accepted at SGU and am looking forward to this viable alternative if that 6 is a deal killer. I want to do international infectious disease work and I will see cases in Greneda that pertain to this. I have several friends in med school and doing residencies and actually ones that have finished their residencies and they all say the same thing, ie, go for it at SGU. I also know several IMG residents here at Tulane and LSU who are in residency programs, one doing a GI fellowship.
If you people who are sooooo negative about the Carribean schools don't like them, please stop discouraging the rest of us.

 

[marleybfour]

Casey,

As I said, the Caribbean is not for me. Strictly me. I congratulate you and wish you well.

 

[imtiaz]

Funny story. I was talking with my premed advisor last year to generate a list of schools to apply to for this year. I said "What do you think about the Carribean schools?" he said, "I don't." I said, "Well, I've been considering a few." he said, "Don't." It was hillarious, we both started laughing. Anyway, I actually do know someone who went to St. Georges in Grenada. It's decent. He is working in the US now, so it's possible at least. Good luck.

 

[DocConnie]

Hi All,

I was accepted into Ross in 1991. At that time, I had an interview in NY and unofficial transcript. This was the only school that would give me the time of day. Now, I regret not going. I have obtained two Master's degrees since then and have several years experience in clinical research.

I still receive info from the school asking me to attend. Believe me, I do consider sometimes but now married and a 3 year old.

When I think about it now, I should have gone. I would just be finishing.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[wsu]

FYI,
I visited Ross and AUC. If you attend there be prepared to deal with the poor living conditions. At AUC, the campus is very nice. Very beautiful and the students are friendly. But, talking to them and the admissins counselor they loose about 1/4 to a 1/2 of their students for various reasons. Same thing with Ross. Ross is a very poor country and it shows once you leave the airplane. They are beggars everywhere, its hot and the conditions are not soo rosey as some people suggest. I'm not trying to bash the Carribean medical schools. If you really want to be a physician, go for it. but prepared to bust your ass off and do well on the boards..

 

[Mr. Eastern Medicine]

Just curious, let's just say I graduated from one of those Carib med school and I just couldn't find a residency spot (Internal Med or FP), then when can I apply again? Is it annually or ....?

Thanks guys~