Case Western vs NYU

[helpmepleasedentists]

Hello everyone

I am trying to choose which school I should attend for dental school I liked New York more than I liked Cleveland but the price of NYU has me very worried

NYU = $488,743

Case Western = $403,102

the difference is $85,641

This includes living expenses.
I am out of state for both schools and I just want to be a general dentist (I may try orthodontist if I feel interested later)

Thank you in advanced!

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[jokersmiles]

Case Western is the better option no question.

With accruing interest the difference between NYU and Case will be over 100K not 85K
Cleveland is not as bad as everyone thinks and Case Western is overall a superior school, in my opinion.

Case has only 75 students so you will be able to get to know your professors more, Case also has a clinical
coordinator that schedules your patients for you, so you never have to worry about not having enough patients.

You won't have enough time to be exploring the city all day so theres no point in spending so much money for NYU
especially since expensive new york apartments are still very small apartments, wheras you can get decently sized
apartment in Cleveland for less cost. Go with Case.

 

[musicplease]

Case Western for sure, its basically 100K cheaper....this should be a no brainer.

 

[dhyg]

NYU seems to get a lot of bad rep from this board, so I'll play devil's advocate to jokersmiles. FYI I'm most likely attending NYU this coming fall, so I may be a bit biased.

True that with interest, the price difference will most likely go over 100k. But unless you're pushing 40 years old when you graduate, I will assume that you will graduate at the average age of ~30, with another ~30 years of earning power as a dentist. You think that 100k difference will matter THAT much in the long run assuming you have a long and prosperous career?

Case has 75 students vs NYU's ~300, but the teacher to student ratio is still comparable at both schools. You can't say that you will be able to "get to know your professors more" just by being in a small class size, dental school is what you make of it. If you make the effort to stay after class to ask questions and introduce yourself to the prof, chances are the prof will remember your name, even in the midst of 300 students.

NYU also have its students assigned to clinical coordinators that make sure you're doing well in clinic. There is no shortage of patients coming through to NYU to get dental work done, how hard is it to pick up a phone and book in your own patients who want to come in to see you anyway?

In the end it depends on your personal lifestyle and how you want to spend the next 4 years in dental school. Some people would be perfectly fine going to school in the mornings then spend all nights and weekend studying, and thats fine. But for myself I'm definitely going to try to meet as many people as I can, and have as much fun as possible while balancing the stress of dental school.

 

[allantois]

 

[musicplease]

True that with interest, the price difference will most likely go over 100k..

on the contrary, NYU has a lot more students than Case (literally 5 times the number of students)
so this forum will definitely have a bias in favor of NYU due to the number of applicants it has

Not to say that NYU is a bad program, but when there's over $100,000 difference..... Case Western is the best option by far.

 

[helpmepleasedentists]

True that with interest, the price difference will most likely go over 100k. But unless you're pushing 40 years old when you graduate, I will assume that you will graduate at the average age of ~30, with another ~30 years of earning power as a dentist. You think that 100k difference will matter THAT much in the long run assuming you have a long and prosperous career?

Thank you for your response, why do you think 100K extra debt will not have a large effect in my career as a dentist?

I want to be able to start my own practice someday so the cost of NYU is the only thing keeping me from attending there so please elaborate!

Thank you again

 

[Hyunin1210]

Thank you for your response, why do you think 100K extra debt will not have a large effect in my career as a dentist?

I want to be able to start my own practice someday so the cost of NYU is the only thing keeping me from attending there so please elaborate!

Thank you again

The bank will give you another loan on top of your large dental school debt to start a practice or buy an existing one. Many people over at DentalTown recommend going into private practice ASAP to have more income potential earlier. There are many risks going this route because of course your practice can fail or not be as profitable as you would hope.

 

[darknightzzz]

cant resist the urge to comment

OP, drop NYU and go to case western. case western is not even a bad school and that would mean so much to save 100k$ to attend case

100k$ is a lot even for a dentist to pay. it is the interest that kills not the principle guys. save 6k a year interest on that extra 100k$ for 3 years and u can buy a new car. if u want to open ur own practice, going to case just helps, 400k dental education is expensive and over the limit already. dont just be distracted by nyu big name

the bank wont give u any more loan if ur debt payment: income ratio exceeds 50%. for a 500k$ debt on 20 year that will be 4-5k a month. that is half of ur paycheck assuming u make 140-150k a year. the only way to get out loan is through irb/paye

people on here are so naive to think 100k$ is nothing major. case has everything nyu has. with 100k$ u can raise a child for 10 years. and with interest this becomes 180k$ easy at the end of 20yr repayment

 

[jokersmiles]

Case Western is an amazing school and I'm sure you saw that during your interview, it's Cleveland that gets the bad rep
like others have said save your $100,000 dollars ($180,000 after interest) and go to Case Western.

Dental school is what you make of it, if you want to enjoy life I am 100% positive that Cleveland has plenty to offer for that as well.
every city has good parts and bad parts, Cleveland is no different.

 

[Hyunin1210]

cant resist the urge to comment

the only way to get out loan is through irb/paye

Wouldn't you say most people who go to private schools will go PAYE anyway. 400k is still very tough to pay back (assuming you don't have some dream job opportunity out of school) even with consolidated interest rates.

 

[darknightzzz]

Wouldn't you say most people who go to private schools will go PAYE anyway. 400k is still very tough to pay back (assuming you don't have some dream job opportunity out of school) even with consolidated interest rates.

thats true. but just because its tough to pay back, you don't have to screw yourself into even a much deeper hole by going straight to the impossible-to-pay-back unless you have sugar momma or sugar papa.

your debt is still your debt at the end. 400k is still better than 500k. I will take 400k to become a dentist anyday over 500k. IRB/PAYE is not a loan-erasing program. the forgiven amount comes back as a taxable income. I hope after 20 years of practice, you will have a respectable income at around 190k$ and with the forgiven amount plus this income, the tax bracket will be a nuclear warfare and the tax amount will be off the roof.

one of the notion people that rely on IRB/PAYE don't realize is that these programs basically let the interest on your loan bloom like bacteria without control. Heck, when you start practicing, the amount you pay per year is even much less than accumulated interest. When you pay less than interest for a loan you own, that is a burden you carry with you until you die.

Financial calculation is no jokes. It either makes you or breaks you. Before as a predent, I didn't even know what the heck is IRB/PAYE, taxable income on forgiven amount, different tax brackets. But with what I know now, IRB/PAYE is just a floater thrown at you drowning in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

 

[schmoob]

I'm sure there are plenty of people out there with large student debt who make wise financial decisions post dental school that end up doing better than those with lower student debt.
Looking past the run-on above, my point is, if you have the option, go cheaper. But it is not the sole factor in financial success.

 

[Hyunin1210]

thats true. but just because its tough to pay back, you don't have to screw yourself into even a much deeper hole by going straight to the impossible-to-pay-back unless you have sugar momma or sugar papa.

your debt is still your debt at the end. 400k is still better than 500k. I will take 400k to become a dentist anyday over 500k. IRB/PAYE is not a loan-erasing program. the forgiven amount comes back as a taxable income. I hope after 20 years of practice, you will have a respectable income at around 190k$ and with the forgiven amount plus this income, the tax bracket will be a nuclear warfare.

one of the notion people that rely on IRB/PAYE don't realize is that these programs basically let the interest on your loan bloom like bacteria without control. Heck, when you start practicing, the amount you pay per year is even much less than accumulated interest. When you pay less than interest for a loan you own, that is a burden you carry with you until you die.

Yes definitely, less debt is always the way to go unless there are personal reasons.

I would hope anyone who does choose PAYE (I will probably be one of them too) will save up for that tax bomb at year 20. Depending on your income throughout the 20 years, PAYE may be more "cost-effective" than a 20 year plan. However, it is a shame that people who make so much money feel like they must have the government bail them out.

 

[darknightzzz]

i do not mean that attending an expensive school is a bad financial choice and makes that person financially unwise. I was almost ready to attend an expensive private school until a better option opens its door for me. but what i mean is between 2 apples with two different prices, one should just go for the cheaper.

OP, just make up some excel sheet and search somewhere on this forum about how to calculate debt with annual compounding interest and expected payments over 20 year period. Then, plug in price of Case and NYU. You have to compare cents for cents, dont ball park. I am sure after the excel sheet, you will be content with attending case.

 

[helpmepleasedentists]

Thank you everyone for your feedback and help! I truly appreciate it.

I did like Case Western better than NYU, it was only Cleveland that worried me
but I am more reassured that Case is the right choice, thanks again!

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

.

 

[sumin5924]

By the way, for those questioning the IBR/PAYE/REPAYE tax bomb, look up insolvency. You don't necessarily have to be hit with a 200-300K tax bomb if you plan accordingly.

 

[dhyg]

Didn't get a chance to reply until now, but I'm happy that you seem to have made your decision! To each their own.

 

[distressstudent]

Case has only 75 students so you will be able to get to know your professors more, Case also has a clinical
coordinator that schedules your patients for you, so you never have to worry about not having enough patients.

Boy I wish...

A. True that with interest, the price difference will most likely go over 100k. But unless you're pushing 40 years old when you graduate, I will assume that you will graduate at the average age of ~30, with another ~30 years of earning power as a dentist. You think that 100k difference will matter THAT much in the long run assuming you have a long and prosperous career?

A. There's a big difference between 100k vs 0k debt and 400k vs 500k debt.

I crunch some numbers at 6.8% interest rate (I think that's even on the low side) at 10 year standard repayment at 400k vs 500k

400k -
$4,603 monthly repayment
$552,386 paid back (principal + interest)

500k -
$5,754 monthly repayment
$690,482 paid back (principal + interest)


Sure, in your lifetime you will earn more than enough to pay back 100k. But you don't live your whole life like a summary. You live life day to day. So for ten years, you're not "just" paying an extra $1,100 but actually $5,754. What I mean by that is that you are going to rack your brain over how to save enough cash to make a loan payment from $4,603 to $5,754. When comparing zero to $1,100, it is easy to identify what sacrifices to make in your lifestyle; just cut away a little bit of A or B from your life. This could the big expenses in your life like holding off a mortgage or buying a car. But to save $4603 to $5754, on top of holding back from your mortgage, or buying a car, you have to start thinking about the smaller things in your life; and when you're trying to repay a even bigger portion you got to think even smaller. Not too long, you will find yourself thinking about what shampoo to buy or start considering buying used goods over new goods for your hobbies. Personally speaking, it is the little things in life that keeps me sane.



I will just leave this as a sidenote however.
PLEASE. PLEASE don't say cleveland is comparable to a city like NYC
sure cleveland isn't as bad as its reputation (debatable lol), but it really isn't no NYC.
People live in cleveland because they have to. People live in NYC because they want to.

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

.

 

[Dr.munchkin]

At the end of the day, we should look at the money factor and happiness at that particular school and city. Some people will be happier in Cleveland and others in NYC. Personally, I had the choice between NYC and Cleveland and I chose Cleveland because it seemed like I can get more out of it. Living arrangements in NYC wouldn't be as nice for the same price and I will have to use public transportation. In Cleveland, I got a luxurious apartment in a very nice and safe neighborhood, I can still drive a car there and not be stuck in traffic forever. Oh and I got a very nice parking garage on the school grounds for which I am very excited. Also, I don't like the smell of NYC, it stinks, not all areas of course but most of them. OP has to consider all options, pick a place where you will be most comfortable and get an awesome education. The money factor is huge of course but it depends on what your life plan is, sure you can get more debt but that may hinder you from buying your own practice for a while. Depending on the pay off plan, buying a house could be tricky as well. One should look at the whole picture and see what they will be happy with.