Caught a student cheating before a test....

[leonardoson]

---

Members do not see this ad.

If you read my posts in full, I had no objection to you reporting that cheating occurred, as long as her identity was protected. It wasn't until your last post that I got the impression that your motive was out of jealousy, not honesty, hence my recent comment.

FWIW, I just went through interviewing and was never asked if I would report a fellow student who I caught cheating. I was however asked if I would step in to mediate a dispute between my hypothetical aunt and her husband and I said that I honestly wouldn't because I don't like meddling, especially in situations involving money or marriages. I was accepted to this school (though the interview day was long and my answer to this one question likely played a no role).

While that may be your experience, that's not to say that's everyone's experience. You are providing anecdotal evidence to something 40,000+ people do.

 

[leonardoson]

Ah, ok. Apologies, if you have said that previously I didn't see it.
Are these guides pre-made for you then? If that's the case, maybe just request that they are attached to the exam, not brought by individual students.

We have to buy the guides as part of the class. So they are ours. We can use what's already IN them from what we've done in class.

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[Affiche]

While that may be your experience, that's not to say that's everyone's experience. You are providing anecdotal evidence to something 40,000+ people do.

...hence why I prefaced my comment with "for what it's worth". 🙄
Honestly, do you expect to get anything but anecdotal evidence on a pre-med forum?

Just tell the professor the security isn't tight enough. That's clearly what you want to do and now this thread is just going round and round. Not sure why you're still posting.

 

[TBV]

Good luck getting into medical school, or any professional school for that matter, when you have a misdemeanor and/or felony.

Read again in the situation I described the person perceived that as the end of their journey (very well could be) so they might not care about it. Any one with a crazy ex-gf knows there are people who don't care about the charge.

 

[leonardoson]

...hence why I prefaced my comment with "for what it's worth". 🙄
Honestly, do you expect to get anything but anecdotal evidence on a pre-med forum?

Just tell the professor the security isn't tight enough. That's clearly what you want to do and now this thread is just going round and round. Not sure why you're still posting.

Sorry, I'm not up to date on what FWIW meant. My apologies. Congrats on getting into Med School!!!

 

[OldstockJr]

lol gunners gonna gun. cheaters gonna cheat.
but in the end, karma gonna karma.

 

[ZedsDed]

Great you've admitted it and now we can move past it.

Hmm. Tempting as it is to have a little fun with this, I think I'll ignore you before I'm put on probation for engaging with a troll.

 

[Sardinia]

To be perfectly honest, the line is not very thin. While for some specialties (OB) there are very real liability concerns, for the vast majority of physicians, there isn't a tight margin for error. The problem is fundamentally that people naturally want to push the boundaries. They want to make more money, work less, etc. They also see that virtually every other person they interact with can do this (people working on your house, car, teachers, etc). When you look at those patient safety issues that I mentioned, they are obvious. To a 3rd party, they are clearly on the other side of the line. The problem is, you can easily get away with most of those things, the vast majority of the time and the vast majority of the time, nobody gets hurt bad enough to bring a lawsuit. Thus, if it is advantageous from a money or time (which is money) perspective, many people will do it.

Thank you for the insight! 😍

 

[Affiche]

Sorry, I'm not up to date on what FWIW meant. My apologies. Congrats on getting into Med School!!!

Thanks. I know I'm N=1, but I had a lot of interviews and not a single school asked me a question like this. Most of the ethical questions I was asked pertained to equal treatment of patients regardless of LGBT status or race. I had a weird MMI that asked the question about meddling between my "aunt" and "uncle", but it was framed in such a way that there was no right or wrong answer. Interviews largely focus on asking about your hobbies/interests, things you've put on your application, why you're interested in that particular school and occasionally will ask about the ACA (and they just want to see if you know anything about it). If there are any tough ethical questions like the situation here, it's usually sufficient to say that it's a tough situation, explain the pros/cons of both sides, and choose a more neutral/leaning slightly towards one side because of a solid, respectable reason.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Well that's uncalled for. She's never said cheating is fine, only that her code is to ignore rule breaking that doesn't have a clear victim (I had a similar debate with her about whether it is wrong to make fake parking passes - she says it's not something she'd want to see punished because there is no victim involved when a student breaks a rule for free parking). I think there is conflict in this case - how can you believe cheating is both wrong and victimless? - but thus far her position has been as a proponent for neutrality, not endorsing cheating.

The only claim to neutrality is if you are unaware of the act. Once you are privy to the act, you're immediately given the choice to either act against it or act in a manner that facilitates it. There is no bystander option because if you're the only one that notices, you are the only one that can make that call. The "not my problem" attitude is what gets even more people in more trouble because then management thinks, "Well, if they knew this was going on and didn't speak up, then what else could they be hiding?" even if there is actually nothing else being covered up. Goro's quote about evil triumphing when good men do nothing is spot on.

Pretty sure he's a troll because he always makes idiotic posts like that.

>is the bigger man
>troll

Anyway, if it's a parking lot full of open spaces then yeah idc if someone parks there without a pass. But, if the lot is reserved for permits and someone w/ a fake permit takes a spot from someone else w/ a legitimate permit, then I absolutely mind. Literally yesterday someone took my parking spot near the hospital so he could move his kid out of the dorm and I had no problem reporting him to get his car moved (he wasn't ticketed, just told to move of he would be). The space was permit-only for hospital employees and this guy just posted up there, in the last spot, for convenience. I had a patient to see and needed the spot, so I didn't feel bad about getting him to move. However, if there was another spot open then I wouldn't have cared.

So if there was an empty spot and you took it, how would you feel if you were the one called out for taking an attending's spot? Your post makes it sound as if there are actually assigned spaces and not just permited first come first served. So assuming that's the case, would you rat out the guy who is there without a permit? Your other posts on similar matters would say no, yet here you are ratting them out. Why? Because it's not a victimless crime.

It's not that cheating in college is a victimless crime or whatever keep your head down 'cuh and do you; it's that if the person never gets reprimanded for it (and most cheaters don't ever get their dues), then they will develop a habit of cheating to the point where they might think it's okay to fudge a patient's vitals because they don't want to deal with the attending asking them to run another time-consuming test. And what if that test would have found something malignant?

Calling out cheaters in UG is not even about the curve or the grade or even someone else getting something that they don't deserve. It's about making sure that person realizes that they can't keep going through life doing things like that, no matter what field they end up in.

 

[Azete]

Side note, but there seems to be a misconception that the only cheaters are the ones that couldn't pass the class otherwise. In my experience it's the contrary, some of the biggest cheaters I've seen are the smartest students in the class -- they would have no problem acing the class on their own but feel the need to cheat anyway.

 

[pathhermit]

Why not just let them know it's obvious that they are cheating? If they stop, there, they aren't cheating anymore and aren't in trouble. If they keep cheating so obviously, they're idiots, feel free to snitch if that's how you want to handle it.

 

[Stagg737]

so you can either tell the Prof she needs to up her exam security and silently hope that the cheater is caught this time or just make sure the cheater is caught. I'd turn them in. I did it in high school, I would do it in college again. I believe in second chances but not third or fourth or fifth.

This. Making one bad decision is understandable, but continually cheating in multiple classes shows a pattern of behavior that likely carries into other aspects of a person's life, which would likely include medicine if the person worked in healthcare. OP said the girl admitted she had cheated multiple times, this is not someone I would want treating my family or friends.

In the case of the few posters here who support reporting the person to the professor to protect the curve, well, I find it more unethical of an action to intentionally cause someone harm/punishment in order to benefit yourself to be far than it would be to simply keep to yourself.

You are causing/doing them no harm. They already put themselves in that position when they decided to cheat, and getting caught was a risk they decided to take. And the whole "benefitting yourself" argument is bs. I find nothing wrong with evening the playing field when someone has 'illegally' and unethically put you at a disadvantage. Besides, people keep saying "what goes around comes around" and karma and all that, but this is OP's chance to give her the karma she deserves before it affects something in life that really matters and not just a test grade. Besides, if the class is graded on a curve and the person that cheated scores high, it does affect OP, so it is his business.

It sounds like you're jealous that she's been scoring above you and now you want to report the incident so she can't do that anymore. This is the kind of thing I hate, because you aren't reporting her out of some sense of moral obligation to do so, but because you want her stop beating your scores with less effort than you put in.

She's asking for help, then beating him by cheating. If I were training someone for a race and then they (or anyone else for that matter), ended up beating me because they took a short cut, you can bet on it that I'm going to report it. Hate it and call it selfish if you want, but I'm not busting my butt and doing things ethically to lose to some a**hole that decides to take an illegal and unethical shortcut.

 

[ZedsDed]

So, let me preface what I'm going to say by stating that I probably wouldn't "rat out" a friend. I frankly don't care enough about small instances of cheating to end a friendship over it. Nonetheless, it really irks me that people are labeling those who put ethics over personal relationships as "weak," "jealous," "rats," "cowards," etc. It isn't "weak" to stand by your ethical principles -- quite the opposite.

 

[Lawpy]

The only claim to neutrality is if you are unaware of the act. Once you are privy to the act, you're immediately given the choice to either act against it or act in a manner that facilitates it. There is no bystander option because if you're the only one that notices, you are the only one that can make that call. The "not my problem" attitude is what gets even more people in more trouble because then management thinks, "Well, if they knew this was going on and didn't speak up, then what else could they be hiding?" even if there is actually nothing else being covered up. Goro's quote about evil triumphing when good men do nothing is spot on.



>is the bigger man
>troll

So if there was an empty spot and you took it, how would you feel if you were the one called out for taking an attending's spot? Your post makes it sound as if there are actually assigned spaces and not just permited first come first served. So assuming that's the case, would you rat out the guy who is there without a permit? Your other posts on similar matters would say no, yet here you are ratting them out. Why? Because it's not a victimless crime.

It's not that cheating in college is a victimless crime or whatever keep your head down 'cuh and do you; it's that if the person never gets reprimanded for it (and most cheaters don't ever get their dues), then they will develop a habit of cheating to the point where they might think it's okay to fudge a patient's vitals because they don't want to deal with the attending asking them to run another time-consuming test. And what if that test would have found something malignant?

Calling out cheaters in UG is not even about the curve or the grade or even someone else getting something that they don't deserve. It's about making sure that person realizes that they can't keep going through life doing things like that, no matter what field they end up in.

Wow.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Is there a problem?

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

snitches get stitches, lol

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

If you read my posts in full, I had no objection to you reporting that cheating occurred, as long as her identity was protected. It wasn't until your last post that I got the impression that your motive was out of jealousy, not honesty, hence my recent comment.

FWIW, I just went through interviewing and was never asked if I would report a fellow student who I caught cheating. I was however asked if I would step in to mediate a dispute between my hypothetical aunt and her husband and I said that I honestly wouldn't because I don't like meddling, especially in situations involving money or marriages. I was accepted to this school (though the interview day was long and my answer to this one question likely played a no role).

Perhaps you were being interviewed by a doc who expects you to witness him or her being grossly negligent on the wards. Just making sure they don't have to worry about a med student meddling.

I'm also not sure how cheating is a victimless crime. Our entire educational system is built on promoting people to positions based on the demonstration of adequate knowledge. If someone cheated their way there it kinda defeats the purpose.

 

[Affiche]

You are causing/doing them no harm. They already put themselves in that position when they decided to cheat, and getting caught was a risk they decided to take. And the whole "benefitting yourself" argument is bs. I find nothing wrong with evening the playing field when someone has 'illegally' and unethically put you at a disadvantage. Besides, people keep saying "what goes around comes around" and karma and all that, but this is OP's chance to give her the karma she deserves before it affects something in life that really matters and not just a test grade. Besides, if the class is graded on a curve and the person that cheated scores high, it does affect OP, so it is his business.



She's asking for help, then beating him by cheating. If I were training someone for a race and then they (or anyone else for that matter), ended up beating me because they took a short cut, you can bet on it that I'm going to report it. Hate it and call it selfish if you want, but I'm not busting my butt and doing things ethically to lose to some a**hole that decides to take an illegal and unethical shortcut.

As I've said, I don't agree with cheating, but I don't get enjoyment out of watching other people receive a severely harsh punishment, either. I don't want any part in inflicting such a punishment over something as stupid as cheating on schoolwork. If they get caught and punished, so be it, but I don't want to be involved in it.

When someone turns someone in for cheating to protect their curve, they're doing it out of self-interest, not because they feel a moral obligation to. I don't care much if someone does it out of a moral obligation (I find it annoying, but everyone has their own moral compass so it's whatever), but to report someone else because you want to make sure your curve is protected is ugly. I don't agree that you're taking the moral high ground by inflicting a harsh punishment on someone because you want to make sure your grade is protected. I could never care so much about a grade that I would want to see someone expelled over it.

Perhaps you were being interviewed by a doc who expects you to witness him or her being grossly negligent on the wards. Just making sure they don't have to worry about a med student meddling.

I'm also not sure how cheating is a victimless crime. Our entire educational system is built on promoting people to positions based on the demonstration of adequate knowledge. If someone cheated their way there it kinda defeats the purpose.

What the what? Is this not the exact same logical fallacy that was presented earlier in the thread?

 

[Lost in Translation]

As I've said, I don't agree with cheating, but I don't get enjoyment out of watching other people receive a severely harsh punishment, either. I don't want any part in inflicting such a punishment over something as stupid as cheating on schoolwork. If they get caught and punished, so be it, but I don't want to be involved in it.

The punishment is all up to the professor, though, depending on the severity of the cheating (i.e. sharing answers on homework/lab reports vs during an exam). It's not like you can't make an anonymous tip to your professor (which keeps you from being "involved in it.")

 

[ZedsDed]

When someone turns someone in for cheating to protect their curve, they're doing it out of self-interest, not because they feel a moral obligation to. I don't care much if someone does it out of a moral obligation (I find it annoying, but everyone has their own moral compass so it's whatever), but to report someone else because you want to make sure your curve is protected is ugly. I don't agree that you're taking the moral high ground by inflicting a harsh punishment on someone because you want to make sure your grade is protected.

Even if someone is doing it out of self interest... meh. It's not like the cheater isn't grossly and unethically trying to manipulate the curve in their favor. Do you find the "snitches" to be more morally objectionable than the cheaters? If so, I find your ethical priorities to be odd.

 

[Affiche]

Even if someone is doing it out of self interest... meh. It's not like the cheater isn't grossly and unethically trying to manipulate the curve in their favor. Do you find the "snitches" to be more repugnant than the cheaters? If so, I find your ethical priorities odd.

Why do I have to rank them? I don't like either. That said, a snitch who does it out of self interest is the worst kind.

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

I think the snitches are sniveling little busybodies too wrapped up in other peoples beeswax to focus on setting the curve. I keep my eyes to myself, nose to the grind, and don't worry or focus on whose cheating around me (i.e. behind me), but that's just me.

 

[ZedsDed]

Why do I have to rank them? I don't like either. That said, a snitch who does it out of self interest is the worst kind.

Why? At worst they're facilitating the punishment of someone whose own actions brought about their demise. I don't see how that is worse than cheating, which compromises the integrity of the entire class. Again, I probably wouldn't have the stomach to do it myself, but I don't see the logic in your position. Now, if you personally just find it extremely distasteful for whatever reason -- fine I guess.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Why do I have to rank them? I don't like either. That said, a snitch who does it out of self interest is the worst kind.

You snitched on the guy that took your parking spot. That's doing it out of self-interest at its very core. It's not like you couldn't have just found another lot a little farther away from the hospital.

Spoiler

FWIW I agree with what you did in that situation, I'm just telling you how you're contradicting yourself.

I think the snitches are sniveling little busybodies too wrapped up in other peoples beeswax to focus on setting the curve. I keep my eyes to myself, nose to the grind, and don't worry or focus on whose cheating around me (i.e. behind me), but that's just me.

keep your head down 'cuh and do you

Called it. Nice ninja edit by the way.

 

[Affiche]

Why? At worst they're facilitating the punishment of someone whose own actions brought about their demise. I don't see how that is worse than cheating, which compromises the integrity of the entire class. Again, I probably wouldn't have the stomach to do it myself, but I don't see the logic in your position. Now, if you personally just find it extremely distasteful for whatever reason -- fine I guess.

Making sure someone gets punished (for something that isn't any of your business) because you feel insecure about something as stupid as a grade is pretty nasty, imo. I don't value grades nearly as much as others in this thread though.

 

[dougy]

I find rather interesting that, except for the above comment, most replies here have been to stay out of it, mind your own business, the cheater will get caught eventually, etc. Most students here, I dare say, go to institutions where there is an honor code where no only cheating is prohibited but the duty to directly report any instances of cheating or the indirect duty of upholding the code for the good of the community which implies the same. In other words, not reporting cheating that you have first hand knowledge of is as much of a violation of honor code as the cheating itself. Rarely, of course is this enforced. And students ask why should they put in time and effort, risk criticism of fellow students, and generally put themselves out there for such a thing?

At some point in your medical training (and careers for that matter) will either make a mistake or see someone make a mistake that will endanger a patient. It may be a fellow student, or it could be a resident above you. Or even an attending. How do you deal with the situation? Lets assume for a moment the mistake never gets reported and patient dies. Is the person who saw the error and did not report it as responsible for the patient death as the one who actually made the mistake.

I assure you all of you will be in some situation where a dilemma like this will be in your future. How will you deal with it? In this thread it is simply cheating on a test. on paper so do speak. What about cheating on a medical record? Where that might lead down the road when you should have said something? Something to think about as you go on in your medical careers

I would say that the witness is NOT as responsible for the patient death as the provider that made the mistake, but if they do not take some reporting action, they are equally responsible for the providers next inevitable mistakes. I would hate reporting it but if you are too dishonest to be accountable for your own mistakes (which we will all make) I will absolutely discreetly and without judgement inform someone higher up the food chain of what I saw! As Mark Twain said,"if you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything🙂"

 

[Stagg737]

As I've said, I don't agree with cheating, but I don't get enjoyment out of watching other people receive a severely harsh punishment, either. I don't want any part in inflicting such a punishment over something as stupid as cheating on schoolwork. If they get caught and punished, so be it, but I don't want to be involved in it.

When someone turns someone in for cheating to protect their curve, they're doing it out of self-interest, not because they feel a moral obligation to. I don't care much if someone does it out of a moral obligation (I find it annoying, but everyone has their own moral compass so it's whatever), but to report someone else because you want to make sure your curve is protected is ugly. I don't agree that you're taking the moral high ground by inflicting a harsh punishment on someone because you want to make sure your grade is protected. I could never care so much about a grade that I would want to see someone expelled over it.

Personally, I don't give a crap about the reasons someone gets turned in. Personally, I wouldn't want a one time cheater or someone that makes one (relatively minor) stupid decision to get expelled either. That's not the case here though. This is a person who has consistently tried to play the system and has thus far succeeded. She's cheated knowing there could be very serious consequences to getting caught, then stupidly admitted to a classmate that she's cheated multiple times before. As far as I'm concerned, it's about time for karma to teach her a lesson.

I also never said I was taking the moral high ground by turning her in, just that she deserves to get caught and I'd have no problem being the one to make that happen.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Making sure someone gets punished (for something that isn't any of your business) because you feel insecure about something as stupid as a grade is pretty nasty, imo. I don't value grades nearly as much as others in this thread though.

You keep assuming people who rat out cheaters are doing it for the main reason as protecting a grade, and that's false. People rat out cheaters to maintain the integrity of the class.

>yfw Affiche is ignoring me because I'm shooting down all her points and she has nothing to say back other than "snitches get stitches"

 

[efle]

At least to me, the idea isn't to report someone to avoid them bumping you down a slot on the curve. It's to avoid situations like getting As, but this meaning nothing, because lots of other people just cheated or plagiarized their way to the same mark on their transcript. Its easy to think about with the MCAT. I don't think a great score is sufficient to predict a great doctor, but it would strike me as a problem if they started letting universities proctor it with the same degree of security as a typical class exam.

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

Oh the irony. Everyone in pre-allo all up in arms about reporting cheaters over a test but adamantly defending not reporting and attacking the minority in the SP lounge who is joyous because an Ethnic nationalist got himself temporarily banned for posting a video of Black Lives Matter protestors getting run over by cars.

they're ganging up and having a field day discussing why no one should report hurtful racist coded language to the SDN moderators. ( I didn't report him btw) The hypocrisy of this site...

Cheaters don't hurt people, but it's nice to see where the priorities lie.

#staywoke

@fancymylotus @Fireman @ZedsDed @Mad Jack @AlphaBeta<3 @PlutoBoy

 

[ZedsDed]

Oh the irony. Everyone in pre-allo all up in arms about reporting cheaters over a test but adamantly defending and attacking the minority in the SP lounge because an Ethnic nationalist got himself temporarily banned for posting a video of Black Lives Matter Blacks getting run over by cars, and they're ganging up and having a field day discussing why no one should report hurtful racist coded language to the moderators. ( I didn't report him btw) The hypocrisy of this site...

Cheaters don't hurt people, but it's nice to see where the priorities lie.

#staywoke

@fancymylotus @Fireman @ZedsDed @Mad Jack @AlphaBeta<3 @PlutoBoy

This incomprehensible rant aside, you clearly have not read (or simply do not understand) a single thing that I have written in this thread or in any other if you think I "defended" that video in any way or if you think my position here is somehow relevant.

And stop derailing the thread into an opportunity for you to display histrionics (again...)

 

[Lost in Translation]

Oh the irony. Everyone in pre-allo all up in arms about reporting cheaters over a test but adamantly defending and attacking the minority in the SP lounge because an Ethnic nationalist got himself temporarily banned for posting a video of Black Lives Matter Blacks getting run over by cars, and they're ganging up and having a field day discussing why no one should report hurtful racist coded language to the moderators. ( I didn't report him btw) The hypocrisy of this site...

Cheaters don't hurt people, but it's nice to see where the priorities lie.

#staywoke

@fancymylotus @Fireman @ZedsDed @Mad Jack @AlphaBeta<3 @PlutoBoy

Oh **** he called his boyz @ZedsDed. We gotta up outta here 'cuh we 'bout to see sum smackdown nomsayin?

 

[0dee]

You'd be a fool if you think that people don't cheat in undergrad, MCAT, medical school, and even further in their career, and get away with it. Does it make it right? Absolutely not.

Would I want to be the person reporting the cheating to the professor? Not even.

There are a lot of wrong things that happen in everyone's day that we just turn our heads the other way and pretend like it didn't happen. It's a matter of picking which cause is worth the fight. To me a measly undergrad cheating in a physics tests isn't worth it.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

trying to write down review problems and answers in these guides that we get to have during tests.

I'm surprised no one else mentioned this... I doubt this is actually cheating... If you are allowed to bring in a guide to the test then usually the profs don't care what you put on it.

 

[Lucca]

You'd be a fool if you think that people don't cheat in undergrad, MCAT, medical school, and even further in their career, and get away with it. Does it make it right? Absolutely not.

Would I want to be the person reporting the cheating to the professor? Not even.

There are a lot of wrong things that happen in everyone's day that we just turn our heads the other way and pretend like it didn't happen. It's a matter of picking which cause is worth the fight. To me a measly undergrad cheating in a physics tests isn't worth it.

There's no "fight" in going to the professor and saying "I have reason to believe some students are cheating in this course. I would increase monitoring during the exams or change the questions for the next exam or do something along those lines if I were you". literally less than 5 mins.

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

This incomprehensible rant aside, you clearly have not read (or simply do not understand) a single thing that I have written in this thread or in any other if you think I "defended" that video in any way or if you think my position here is somehow relevant.

Incomprehensible because some lack reading comprehension skills.

 

[0dee]

There's no "fight" in going to the professor and saying "I have reason to believe some students are cheating in this course. I would increase monitoring during the exams or change the questions for the next exam or do something along those lines if I were you". literally less than 5 mins.

Yet, I don't think I would want to take those five mins out of my day to report a cheating to the professor. It's not because it doesn't affect me, or not even because I don't want to be a rat. I just don't feel that getting this person caught is worth it.

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

The bottom line is do what you think is right. You don't need SDN to validate or invalidate your moral compass.

 

[Lucca]

Yet, I don't think I would want to take those five mins out of my day to report a cheating to the professor. It's not because it doesn't affect me, or not even because I don't want to be a rat. I just don't feel that getting this person caught is worth it.

That's weird. It's different than laziness, it's apathy.

 

[ZedsDed]

That's weird. It's different than laziness, it's apathy.

Understandable if it's someone you know though. In that case it may not be "worth it" to some people (including me.)

 

[Lucca]

Understandable if it's someone you know though. In that case it may not be "worth it" to some people (including me.)

It is different but in those cases I would confront the individual first because they matter to me and I want them to do the right thing. I think the people who say they don't care about others cheating actually care a whole lot about what other people think of them

 

[ZedsDed]

I think the people who say they don't care about others cheating actually care a whole lot about what other people think of them

I think that's probably true in a lot of cases. "Snitches" aren't exactly showered with gratitude.

 

[0dee]

That's weird. It's different than laziness, it's apathy.

Call it what you want. Each person has their own moral compass and to expect everyone to abide by YOUR own is not how the world works. I wouldn't report it if it was my friend or my nemesis.
Also, this has nothing to do with what people think of me, because the report would be anonymous anways, right? It is all about context, and in this specific situation, I don't see how getting this student expelled or having an IA on their record will help the integrity of the class, as other student will continue to cheat, plagiarize, and pass with A's.

 

[Lucca]

Call it what you want. Each person has their own moral compass and to expect everyone to abide by YOUR own is not how the world works. I wouldn't report it if it was my friend or my nemesis.
Also, this has nothing to do with what people think of me, because the report would be anonymous anways, right? It is all about context, and in this specific situation, I don't see how getting this student expelled or having an IA on their record will help the integrity of the class, as other student will continue to cheat, plagiarize, and pass with A's.

I'm about following the honor code we agree to follow every time we enroll as students, I'm not asking people to follow my ethical principles, just principles in general that they presumably agree with. The idea is that everyone should turn in cheating and let professors know when cheating is happening so that it will stop. You know, let there be a punishment for the wrong thing.

 

[Stagg737]

Call it what you want. Each person has their own moral compass and to expect everyone to abide by YOUR own is not how the world works. I wouldn't report it if it was my friend or my nemesis.
Also, this has nothing to do with what people think of me, because the report would be anonymous anways, right? It is all about context, and in this specific situation, I don't see how getting this student expelled or having an IA on their record will help the integrity of the class, as other student will continue to cheat, plagiarize, and pass with A's.

It may not significantly help increase the overall integrity of the class, but it will prevent someone who has a pattern of shady behavior from entering a field where they'll be interacting with patients. Besides, if we're talking about the 'disproportionate punishment' of getting caught cheating I'd say being forced into a new career during sophomore or junior year of undergrad is far less problematic than making all the way through med school or residency, getting caught, and ending up with even more debt without the chance of a future in medicine.

Either way, no one is being helped by not reporting a chronic cheater.

 

[Lawpy]

A random aside:

Each person has their own moral compass and to expect everyone to abide by YOUR own is not how the world works.

@efle @Lucca and other philosophy majors here, is the above quote an example of moral relativism? And is the university honor code an example of ethics?

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

What the what? Is this not the exact same logical fallacy that was presented earlier in the thread?

Sorry, perhaps. Missed the part where it was determined to be a logical fallacy. Which kind?

 

[0dee]

I'm about following the honor code we agree to follow every time we enroll as students, I'm not asking people to follow my ethical principles, just principles in general that they presumably agree with. The idea is that everyone should turn in cheating and let professors know when cheating is happening so that it will stop. You know, let there be a punishment for the wrong thing.

Do you report every violation of the honor code when you witness it? I can't speak on behalf of anyone but myself, but to enforce the honor code, I would have to spend my entire day going from professor to professor and telling them how almost all my classmates are breaking the honor code. I see that happen in front of my own eyes, every single day in each of my lectures, that is why I said it's all about picking the right fight.