Caution: This conerns money

[D P356]

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Hey, I'm just a student, but have a question for you attendings about some real life stuff. Disclaimer, they don't teach you how to not get hoodwinked in medical school. Saying "No" can be a tough thing, but please give your advice/experience on the following questions...

1. Do you all get hounded by financial advisers? How do you handle them? Let's be real, docs would likely be a pretty good target as they have a higher income to invest/purchase securities.

2. Do you have family members (outside of spouse and children) who rely on/ask you for money? For those who weren't raised with the silver spoon, they could be seen as the family hero for becoming a physician, and they may earn considerably more than their parents or siblings, but how do you guys/gals deal with family concerning money?

Thanks for taking the time to share.

 

[cincincyreds]

Hey, I'm just a student, but have a question for you attendings about some real life stuff. Disclaimer, they don't teach you how to not get hoodwinked in medical school. Saying "No" can be a tough thing, but please give your advice/experience on the following questions...

1. Do you all get hounded by financial advisers? How do you handle them? Let's be real, docs would likely be a pretty good target as they have a higher income to invest/purchase securities.

2. Do you have family members (outside of spouse and children) who rely on/ask you for money? For those who weren't raised with the silver spoon, they could be seen as the family hero for becoming a physician, and they may earn considerably more than their parents or siblings, but how do you guys/gals deal with family concerning money?

Thanks for taking the time to share.

1. Not really, but if one comes up to me at a party, I ask them their thoughts on index investing and when they give me the BS about how they can beat the market with a mixture of life insurance and variable annuities and loaded mutual funds, I tell them they are full of bullsh** and they then leave me alone.

2. I don't give anyone money. I had a car that barely ran in med school and not one person did a fu%^$en thing to help me out. So I don't loan money to anyone including family members. I don't owe anyone a godda** thing.

ps, if you want to learn how to invest, check out the bogleheads forum.

 

[IlDestriero]

1. Yes. They can take me to Morton's, but they're not getting my money. Just like the drug companies. The latest one was a dinner lecture suggesting using Remifentanil for pyloromyotomies. No way. It would take longer to set up the infusion than to do the case. Tylenol, local, done.
2. No. Fortunately it's not an issue.

 

[michigangirl]

1. Lots of financial advisers come by but I've basically started ignoring them.
2. Noone asks for money. I voluntarily do stuff for my parents since they worked their asses off to help fund college/med school, want them to be as comfortable as possible going into retirement.

 

[D P356]

bump.

No one else has any experiences or lessons learned that they would like to pass on?

Maybe something you wish you would have done differently? Or what has worked best for you concerning these issues?

Blade? Anyone?

 

[IlDestriero]

I wish I had saved more money when I was very young. I could have been putting more away early. It would not have been a lot, but with interest over 40 years it would become quite significant.
I wish I hadn't bought a fancy super car.
Though it was fun.

 

[excalibur]

As a resident I wish I had contributed to my University's retirement plan. I did not, and it was foolish. At 28 I was not thinking of retirement so I didn't bother signing up for it at intern orientation. What makes it hurt worse? My university had a generous matching program for retirement.

For those that don't know, most employers have some sort of retirement program you can contribute to. A certain amount of money is taken out of every paycheck before it is taxed and placed in a retirement account. This money can be invested in certain investment funds and allowed to grow. This money is intended to remain in that fund "growing" and not withdrawn until you retire at age 65 or so. The money you withdraw at age 65 will then get taxed. Placing money in a retirement account is then referred to as placing money in a "tax deferred" account.

Now some employers have a matching program. To encourage people to invest in retirement some employers will add money from their own pocket to your account with each contribution. If your employer has a 10% match, then with each paycheck whatever amount you are contributing to this account from your salary, the employer will add an additional 10% of that contribution to the account. Some employers even have more than a 10% match!

Well I was not as educated on these things as I am now. I definitely regret it. My wife who got a position at the same university near the end of my intern year did contribute to retirement. Now several years later, I just look at how her account has grown throughout the years, and that is with no contributions in the last 2 years. Mistake on my part.

My advice is that when you are to start residency or any employment to ask the Human Resources dept about the retirement program that is available and CONTRIBUTE to the max! Do this before you receive any pay check, because if you don't, you will get accustomed getting paychecks at a certain amount and will be less inclined to want to receive a little less each month. On the other hand, if you contribute from the beginning, you will budget your finances based on what you are receiving each month, and in the meantime you will have a nice nest egg growing.

 

[survivordo]

Great advice from excalibur above. We aren't allowed to participate in the company 403b until being there for 1 year but you can bet I will be taking advantage of that match ASAP. I also think the OP might be interested to read through whitecoatinvestor.com it is a really helpful site directed at physician investing and the bogleheads forum is, of course, outstanding. I have just been dumping whatever extra money I have had into a Roth IRA. Truly extra money goes into VTI, money I want a little more secure goes into BND. Pretty basic but its a start while in residency.

Survivor DO

 

[Jalopycat]

2. Do you have family members (outside of spouse and children) who rely on/ask you for money? For those who weren't raised with the silver spoon, they could be seen as the family hero for becoming a physician, and they may earn considerably more than their parents or siblings, but how do you guys/gals deal with family concerning money?

I've been out of residency 2 1/2 years and have a TON of debt from medical school, but that doesn't seem to matter with some people in my family. I drive a 7 year old Honda. I support my elderly mom now (but I feel this isn't a choice) and I have a sister in law who asks me for large sums of money about ever 3 months to pay for things that are not necessities ( like her daughter's competitive dance fees) . The first time I did help her and from then on her requests have been unrelenting, even though I continually say "No. Dance classes are not my responsibility and if you can't afford it, don't do it".

If you add up everyone's income in my family and multiply it by 3, I still make more money(but I also have a lot more debt). I never once asked for money during my poor years of college, med school, and residency but what I'm getting in return is different. If you're going to be in a situation where you earn a lot more than anyone in your family, it changes things. Be prepared for it. Don't feed the hungry dragon even one time because money is like heroin and they will keep coming back for more. My once good relationship with my sister in law is now really strained and I resent her. Things are awkward. Money changes everything.

 

[deleted87051]

I've been out of residency 2 1/2 years and have a TON of debt from medical school, but that doesn't seem to matter with some people in my family. I drive a 7 year old Honda. I support my elderly mom now (but I feel this isn't a choice) and I have a sister in law who asks me for large sums of money about ever 3 months to pay for things that are not necessities ( like her daughter's competitive dance fees) . The first time I did help her and from then on her requests have been unrelenting, even though I continually say "No. Dance classes are not my responsibility and if you can't afford it, don't do it".

If you add up everyone's income in my family and multiply it by 3, I still make more money(but I also have a lot more debt). I never once asked for money during my poor years of college, med school, and residency but what I'm getting in return is different. If you're going to be in a situation where you earn a lot more than anyone in your family, it changes things. Be prepared for it. Don't feed the hungry dragon even one time because money is like heroin and they will keep coming back for more. My once good relationship with my sister in law is now really strained and I resent her. Things are awkward. Money changes everything.

This is a horrible trap. I feel for you. Sounds like your family has a history of poverty and impoverishment....and it is NOT for a lack of income. It is from a terrible HABIT of being poor, spending more than they can afford. You are right, it is an insatiable hungry dragon. You can make 500k/year and still be poor. Remember it is not what you make but what you KEEP. If you want a better life for yourself, you have to take care of yourself first......your debt, your emergency fund, your retirement. They know they are poor and subconsciously they want you to stay poor with them. It is a mindset. Learn to say no....and offer them yourself, your sparkling personality, your wisdom, your presence. Just not your money.

Ps....my car is 12 years old with 160k miles...owned it for 10 years and I love it.....never had a better car🙂

 

[urge]

Hey, I'm just a student, but have a question for you attendings about some real life stuff. Disclaimer, they don't teach you how to not get hoodwinked in medical school. Saying "No" can be a tough thing, but please give your advice/experience on the following questions...

1. Do you all get hounded by financial advisers? How do you handle them? Let's be real, docs would likely be a pretty good target as they have a higher income to invest/purchase securities.

2. Do you have family members (outside of spouse and children) who rely on/ask you for money? For those who weren't raised with the silver spoon, they could be seen as the family hero for becoming a physician, and they may earn considerably more than their parents or siblings, but how do you guys/gals deal with family concerning money?

Thanks for taking the time to share.

1 Occasionally. Somehow some of them manage to get even your phone number. My guess some physician is ratting everyone out for some kickback. You just learn not to answer unknown numbers. They can leave a message if it needs your attention.

2 I used to have the same concern. Some of my relatives were using my parents as a bank. They always paid back but it was heart stopping the amounts of money they would ask. It has never happened to me as I'm not that close to them. I would not get worked up on something that might not happen. If it does, the answer is no. They have bank loans for that kind of stuff. My sister makes a lot less but she knows not to ask.

 

[pgg]

I don't think I'd ever loan money to a friend or family member. I figure if I can afford to loan the money, and am motivated enough to help in the first place, then I can afford to give it outright.

My N is 2 at this point.

First friend we helped out, years ago, turned weird and resentful. Ruined the friendship, somehow. Still pisses me off. Wish we hadn't tried to help in the first place. Her problems were largely self-inflicted.

More recently, helped out some good friends who went through layoffs and foreclosure. They're doing well now, still great friends. Problems basically not self-inflicted.



As for saving more money earlier. Sure, wish I had. Of course, everyone says that. Youth is wasted on the young.

In 2002, the year I finished med school, I paid just under $60K for a new BMW M3. Ordered it custom. I remember checking the factory web site to follow its manufacture progress ... as my wife and I were goofing off in Peru, just before hiking the Inca trail. We justified the car and trip easily. I had no med school debt (.mil paid) and had cash to cover it from the sale of our little .com business, which we fortuitously bailed on before the bubble popped.

Sometimes in my time-traveling fantasies I think we could've bought a 2-year-old Honda Accord and watched the history channel instead, after buying a bunch of AAPL and gold doubloons.

But I still drive the car which has been a delightful rush for 10 years now, and the trip kicked all kinds of ass. You've got to life your life. Maybe I'll die tomorrow.

 

[D P356]

I appreciate the input everyone has added to this thread.

Thank y'all. If anyone else would like to pass on some advice, it would be appreciated.

Thanks again for taking the time.

 

[letoilenoire]

I've been out of residency 2 1/2 years and have a TON of debt from medical school, but that doesn't seem to matter with some people in my family. I drive a 7 year old Honda. I support my elderly mom now (but I feel this isn't a choice) and I have a sister in law who asks me for large sums of money about ever 3 months to pay for things that are not necessities ( like her daughter's competitive dance fees) . The first time I did help her and from then on her requests have been unrelenting, even though I continually say "No. Dance classes are not my responsibility and if you can't afford it, don't do it".

If you add up everyone's income in my family and multiply it by 3, I still make more money(but I also have a lot more debt). I never once asked for money during my poor years of college, med school, and residency but what I'm getting in return is different. If you're going to be in a situation where you earn a lot more than anyone in your family, it changes things. Be prepared for it. Don't feed the hungry dragon even one time because money is like heroin and they will keep coming back for more. My once good relationship with my sister in law is now really strained and I resent her. Things are awkward. Money changes everything.

I feel for you. I will be a similar situation when done with residency. I have very few close family members but those that are there have no financial finess. No one has any savings, I'm talking 0, living check to check from SS or wherever else they get their money. I for sure have to take care of my aging father when done but I think that's all I will be doing. My parents were awful with money. We were a 4 person household on 68k yearly, which should have been enough but it wasn't. My mom liked spending money that wasn't there and now my dad is paying for it, and then some. The house isn't paid, the car isn't paid, etc. Even though they were foolish with money it's still my parents and I can't stand by and watch my dad suffer when I have the means to help (in the future anyway). I also have 200k to pay back in loans so there you go. However, for the rest of my family they will not be getting my money. They are more than able to go work and limit spending to what they can afford and I'm not responsible for that.