Chances at UQ-Ochsner and other Oz schools

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foody

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Hello,

I'm a US citizen and want to apply to schools in Oz. My gpa is a 2.7 and I have a 26O MCAT score. What are my chances? Should I retake the mcat? I know I just meet the minimums barely.

I'm interested in applying to UQ-Ochsner, University of Sydney and MAYBE University of Melbourne (currently finishing anatomy right now).

Really appreciate any responses.

Thank you.

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Hey,

I'm also applying to UQ-Ochsner and would like some input on my chances. U.S. citizen, 3.53 GPA and 26 MCAT. Hoping to get my application in within the next week or two to increase my chance of acceptance.. Thoughts? I think I'll have a solid app. aside from my MCAT score.
 
R
Hello,

I'm a US citizen and want to apply to schools in Oz. My gpa is a 2.7 and I have a 26O MCAT score. What are my chances? Should I retake the mcat? I know I just meet the minimums barely.

I'm interested in applying to UQ-Ochsner, University of Sydney and MAYBE University of Melbourne (currently finishing anatomy right now).

Really appreciate any responses.

Thank you.

Realistically so long as you can pay the fees you should get in, but evaluate your life and make certain that you want to return to the US, because most people who go to Australia don't want to leave.
 
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R


Realistically so long as you can pay the fees you should get in, but evaluate your life and make certain that you want to return to the US, because most people who go to Australia don't want to leave.

Are you sure? I don't think they will take anyone who barely meets the requirements.
 
Are you sure? I don't think they will take anyone who barely meets the requirements.

UQ will take in anyone with a pulse and dump them back off in the US after the 2 years...the medical school has already overenrolled this year (not by accident).
 
UQ will take in anyone with a pulse and dump them back off in the US after the 2 years...the medical school has already overenrolled this year (not by accident).

This is bad for UQ's reputation as well as for the students.
 
This is bad for UQ's reputation as well as for the students.

It's very bad. But other schools like Flinders are specifically holding a considerable number of entry spots for internationals for the same reason as well.

So it's a bit of a catch-22---go to a US school where there's no future in medicine anymore, or go to Australia where you are being used for money and hope you can land an internship at the end of it all.
 
It's very bad. But other schools like Flinders are specifically holding a considerable number of entry spots for internationals for the same reason as well.

So it's a bit of a catch-22---go to a US school where there's no future in medicine anymore, or go to Australia where you are being used for money and hope you can land an internship at the end of it all.
Nobody who is in UQ-O is looking to stay in Australia. In fact, I think it is disallowed within the program.
 
I did find out from admissions people from UQ-O are obviously bring groomed for the US but if they really wanted to they could technically stay in Australia provided there is an internship available.

While Im not one to criticize those who give advice freely (which I do appreciate it)... Does anyone feel that qldking is a bit of troll? I cant help but notice they bashed on the recent EM thread here saying only two out of all the states in the US is liveable. I think thats a crazy idea. Its hard for me to trust what you say when you make a statement like that. Thanks for the advice regardless.
 
I think qld is a bit bitter. Yes I do agree that for a school like UQ to brand itself the international medical school and "sell" its reputation and dramatically increase spots does look bad. On the other hand, for qld to say that the US has no future for medicine is a bit idiotic, especially coming from Australia.

If I was in charge of the UQ-O program, I would have kept the numbers small, not only to keep the program competitive, put less strain on resources and keep the prestige of the university, but also to ensure higher match rates.

I recently read a book on the History of Medicine. It was about the first physicians in the US. In the 1700 and early 1800s, a number of American students studied medicine in Edinburgh in the UK. Like UQ, the Americans tended to be older than the locals as they had already done their apprenticeships in the US. Years later, many of those same Americans ended up building the foundations of medicine in the US. John Morgan, Samuel Bard and Benjamin Waterhouse founded the first, second and third medical schools in the US respectively, and Benjamin Rush was the Surgeon General of the Continental Army as well as a Founding Father.

So really the tradition of studying medicine abroad is not unusual and should be encouraged more.
 
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Nobody who is in UQ-O is looking to stay in Australia. In fact, I think it is disallowed within the program.
ti
Yeah but the point is US-O students are viewed as internationals/IMGs in the US so you're paying a lot of money for a very long road ahead and in a very bad medical climate...
 
I did find out from admissions people from UQ-O are obviously bring groomed for the US but if they really wanted to they could technically stay in Australia provided there is an internship available.

While Im not one to criticize those who give advice freely (which I do appreciate it)... Does anyone feel that qldking is a bit of troll? I cant help but notice they bashed on the recent EM thread here saying only two out of all the states in the US is liveable. I think thats a crazy idea. Its hard for me to trust what you say when you make a statement like that. Thanks for the advice regardless.

Hahaha if you like warm weather and beaches then California and Florida are your only bets...if you don't mind being sent to the middle of Nebraska or something then be my guest
 
Hawaii has some beaches, last time I was there.
 
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Hawaii has some beaches, last time I was there.
Brilliant point. I'm sure there will be tons of open positions in a place with a small population and its own medical school with its own graduates.
 
Not everyone likes beaches and besides its residency, which is only 3-7 years long. When you graduate you have 20-25 years of your life to move wherever the hell you want and lets keep it real, make way more money than any Australian doctor could ever dream of.
 
Not everyone likes beaches and besides its residency, which is only 3-7 years long. When you graduate you have 20-25 years of your life to move wherever the hell you want and lets keep it real, make way more money than any Australian doctor could ever dream of.








All US doctors will make a fixed salary as private practice completely dies out and huge conglomerates continue to take over and Obamacare becomes more crystallized. Salary will be even lower in desirable areas where competition is at its fiercest (assuming you can even find a position. You're in a fantasyland if you think there's any future in the United States.
 
Strange stuff, qldking. Getting back to the thread topic...do you have any numbers on UQ-O for this year?

A 26 MCAT is sufficient to apply if you have minimum 8s in each section. UQ-O uses rolling admissions though, so one cannot say that a particular (low-end) MCAT score will get you in -- it will depend on what point in the season you're applying, and how many spots are left at that point.

If UQ-O is over-subscribed, one possibility is certainly that the SoM simply said, 'we planned for particular numbers but wtf, let's take 'em all'. This is not likely. It could be admin decided to speed up its 10+ year timeline to reach plateau sooner (something like 110? Someone will likely chime in to verify).

Yet other possibilities are that qldking is misinformed, or if any over-enrolment is small, then simply a matter of having more of the accepted applicants accepting their offer than anticipated following the last batch or two of application reviews.
 
Strange stuff, qldking. Getting back to the thread topic...do you have any numbers on UQ-O for this year?

A 26 MCAT is sufficient to apply if you have minimum 8s in each section. UQ-O uses rolling admissions though, so one cannot say that a particular (low-end) MCAT score will get you in -- it will depend on what point in the season you're applying, and how many spots are left at that point.

If UQ-O is over-subscribed, one possibility is certainly that the SoM simply said, 'we planned for particular numbers but wtf, let's take 'em all'. This is not likely. It could be admin decided to speed up its 10+ year timeline to reach plateau sooner (something like 110? Someone will likely chime in to verify).

Yet other possibilities are that qldking is misinformed, or if any over-enrolment is small, then simply a matter of having more of the accepted applicants accepting their offer than anticipated following the last batch or two of application reviews.

I should've been more specific--I was told informally by a staff member at the medical school that this year's class was overenrolled, whether it was due to a higher intake of Ochsner or internationals or domestics of some combination thereof, I am not sure.

I was also told the Ipswich cohort has swelled from 40 something in the first four classes to now over 120 students...can't say that's a good thing.
 
All US doctors will make a fixed salary as private practice completely dies out and huge conglomerates continue to take over and Obamacare becomes more crystallized. Salary will be even lower in desirable areas where competition is at its fiercest (assuming you can even find a position. You're in a fantasyland if you think there's any future in the United States.

No man, Obamacare won't make doctors fixed salary. You don't know anything about American politics, just stick to Australia bro.
 
Hi pitman,

Thanks for your information. Actually the numbers for students admitted on are mededpath website. They have good numbers like 3.3 for undergrad and 3.6 for graduate. I am on my phone otherwise I would look it up. I think the mcat was 26 or 27 cant remember. Thats why I was wondering should I retake my mcat since my undergraduate gpa isnt high. Id really like a fighting chance and can dedicate time to study properly for it.
 
No man, Obamacare won't make doctors fixed salary. You don't know anything about American politics, just stick to Australia bro.

Ha, that's exactly what it has done already. Look at a place like Southern California, where for example, all the Emergency Medicine teams are run by Kaiser Permanente or a large university centre like UCLA, and all the doctors make a fixed salary. It's already happening everywhere in the US.

Insurance companies don't reimburse + intense competition in major cities (every city is saturated with doctors, there is no shortage of doctors except in places like backwoods Mississippi) + costs of running private practice + malpractice insurance, and now Obamacare has sounded the death knell for private practice.

Now if you don't mind going into 300k debt (at 7.9% interest for Gradplus) and needing top AOA + top USMLE scores + publication/research every summer in med school + recommendations (by brown nosing) just for a decent shot at a decent residency, then leading to 80+ hour weeks in internship/residency for 40k salary total (as your debt continues to pile up), and then afterwards being forced to work for a huge conglomerate, then be my guest.

I just think we all need to be informed about medical school and higher education because these schools wash their collective hands of you the second you finish med school and will be hounding you for your money the entire way. You can call me a "troll" all you want, but there's a lot of miserable people out there who wish they were better informed before making the plunge.
 
Ha, that's exactly what it has done already. Look at a place like Southern California, where for example, all the Emergency Medicine teams are run by Kaiser Permanente or a large university centre like UCLA, and all the doctors make a fixed salary. It's already happening everywhere in the US.

Insurance companies don't reimburse + intense competition in major cities (every city is saturated with doctors, there is no shortage of doctors except in places like backwoods Mississippi) + costs of running private practice + malpractice insurance, and now Obamacare has sounded the death knell for private practice.

Now if you don't mind going into 300k debt (at 7.9% interest for Gradplus) and needing top AOA + top USMLE scores + publication/research every summer in med school + recommendations (by brown nosing) just for a decent shot at a decent residency, then leading to 80+ hour weeks in internship/residency for 40k salary total (as your debt continues to pile up), and then afterwards being forced to work for a huge conglomerate, then be my guest.

I just think we all need to be informed about medical school and higher education because these schools wash their collective hands of you the second you finish med school and will be hounding you for your money the entire way. You can call me a "troll" all you want, but there's a lot of miserable people out there who wish they were better informed before making the plunge.

I don't really disagree with anything you said here. I don't think people should go into this without being willing to get into 300k debt, get top USMLE scores, devote every free summer and break to research/observerships/electives, get recommendations (being knowledgeable and all round a good "potential resident" is good enough) and then work 80+ hours during residency for 50k+ (starting salary is 50k+ at most programs).

I've also seen people who I don't think are very happy or aren't willing to put in the effort, so yes, don't go abroad unless you are willing to devote all your free time.

Side note: this is my 1000th post yay!
 
FREIDA doesn't have any residency that pays over 54k, at a quick glance.

Unless your family is loaded I don't see how anyone can go through med school or being a doctor in the US.
 
Hi, Im in the uq/ochsner program right now. Actually if i had a chance to do it all over again, I would look at other programs instead. Its completely a money pit
 
Hi, Im in the uq/ochsner program right now. Actually if i had a chance to do it all over again, I would look at other programs instead. Its completely a money pit

Really? You've progressed in UQO and would do it differently, if you had the chance? Because...

Would you also be resubmitting that ongoing application to West Virginia School of Medicine, if only you had the chance?

You smell of troll:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...hread-2013-2014.1002432/page-17#post-14914642
 
What a silly, meaningless pejorative.

If one were to try somehow to take your vernacular at face value, "money pit" would imply that the money is wasted (thrown down the "pit"). Clearly that has not been the case for those who've completed the program. Would you or the troll like to take another stab at it?
 
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What a silly unfalsifiable perjorative.

But if I take your vernacular at face value, "money pit" implies that the money is wasted (thrown down the "pit"). Clearly that has not been the case for those who've completed the program. Do you want to make a falsifiable claim about UQO and money?

I think you need to learn what 'vernacular' means first before trying to use big words to put down others...

He/she is saying UQ-O was created to make money for the university. Last time I checked its graduates were getting very basic, uncompetitive residencies in the US, all to the tune of a 55k+ tuition yearly. If I were paying that much in tuition to be forced back to the US I would expect the program to be taking in every single one if its students instead of sending them to some ****ty Family Medicine residency program (and the like) on the East Coast.
 
1) They've been happy with the placements they've had, last I heard from them. I have no idea why you're thinking they're all FM, either.
2) I assure you everyone here without a chip on their shoulder recognizes that a "money pit" refers to throwing money down a pit. They would also recognize my correct reference to common understandings of an idiom, as per "vernacular", which really isn't that big a word. Would you be happier if I used the smaller, albeit less appropriate, "slang"?

It is a judgment call by actual Ochsner students and grads alone for whether their money has been well spent, and some do post here. Your pretence is invalid, indeed, as meaningless as your perjorative, and the liberty you've taken with the facts on this topic betrays you.
 
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UQ will take in anyone with a pulse and dump them back off in the US after the 2 years...the medical school has already overenrolled this year (not by accident).

I should've been more specific--I was told informally by a staff member at the medical school that this year's class was overenrolled, whether it was due to a higher intake of Ochsner or internationals or domestics of some combination thereof, I am not sure.

I was also told the Ipswich cohort has swelled from 40 something in the first four classes to now over 120 students...can't say that's a good thing.

So you were told by someone, don't know the numbers (2? 50?), don't even know whether the claimed over-enrolment was for Ochsner, or even of (full fee) international students, yet you believe you know why this happened, and feel this implies that UQO will accept anyone, to take their money and dump them in the US? How evidence-based of you.

Why not tone down the rhetoric and make valid arguments rather than reaching to justify what it appears you simply want to believe?
 
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So someone goes on here and shares an opinion about the school and you brand him a 'troll'? Then you go and spout off your own opinions and pass them off as fact--can't have it both ways.

And you still don't know what 'vernacular' means.

The bottom line is that UQOchsner is designed for people who should've gotten into med school in the US but didn't, either because they didn't play the med school game, didn't know how to play the med school game, or were non-minorities from California or New York. And unfortunately they are viewed the same as someone from a Caribbean medical school when applying for these US programs.

There's a few pro-Ochsner people on here and a few anti-Ochsner, and it's irresponsible for you to insult everyone who doesn't share your opinions.

The facts/evidence-based/whatever you want to call it, show that Ochsner grads are matching into relatively uncompetitive specialties for the most part. Now if I were paying all that money and going through the stress of medical school, I would want a place that would take in all of its students. Both UQ and Ochsner and doing this for money but neither are protecting the investment by taking in all of the students. It's a bad deal for the students.

I don't have every fact. I cannot quote to you the precise number of students who were taken in this year in the over-enrollment and state for you their names. I'm going off exactly what I was told by the administration. The facts you and I are truly privy to are those released by the program, which are inherently biased.
 
So someone goes on here and shares an opinion about the school and you brand him a 'troll'? Then you go and spout off your own opinions and pass them off as fact--can't have it both ways.
Um. When someone claims to be part of UQO, and implies that he is too far along to do it over again, yet also managed to post a couple weeks earlier that he's applied to WVa SoM and is waiting for his interview, yes I can have it "both" ways. Which opinions am I passing off as fact? Do you normally throw out vague generalizations in response to specific arguments?

And you still don't know what 'vernacular' means.
Be a good arguer and look it up before explaining why you think this is so, mate. Find the definitions concerning idioms, and common language, and maybe you'll understand the point and why I didn't use another word like "slang". Or, maybe you won't but will continue to make the same assertion.

The bottom line is that UQOchsner is designed for people who should've gotten into med school in the US but didn't, either because they didn't play the med school game, didn't know how to play the med school game, or were non-minorities from California or New York. And unfortunately they are viewed the same as someone from a Caribbean medical school when applying for these US programs.
Sigh. Clearly you don't know UQO students. Nor have you apparently paid attention on this topic.
I will grant you one thing: yes, UQO attracts Americans who by and large did not get into an American school. Shocking! As to your assertion as to how they're viewed by programs...interesting, but empirically premature yet on the face of it still plainly wrong (Ochsner by design takes a significant number of its grads, ergo it cannot be said that they are "viewed the same").

There's a few pro-Ochsner people on here and a few anti-Ochsner, and it's irresponsible for you to insult everyone who doesn't share your opinions.
Well I'll leave it to you to split (people into "pro" vs. "anti" camps). But it does turn out that those with the most condemnation tend to prove either to be trolls (as per above) or those who are otherwise full of fallacious claims.

Anyone here can see my complete history of posts, that I'm pretty obvious whether I'm expressing an opinion or claiming a fact, that I back up what I claim, whether opinion or fact, and that I do know a thing or two about many UQ matters. You, on the other hand, have been shown in your few posts to make many ill-informed, fallacious pejoratives presented as objective facts. To such people who persist in making invalid arguments, yes, I can come across as insulting. I am insulted by insistent sloppy reasoning that inherently casts aspersions on those whom I know and on their decisions, and that serves to impose one's jaded opinion on those trying to make one of the most important decisions in their life.

The facts/evidence-based/whatever you want to call it, show that Ochsner grads are matching into relatively uncompetitive specialties for the most part. Now if I were paying all that money and going through the stress of medical school, I would want a place that would take in all of its students.
Really? You mean the grads are applying (or secretly want) more competitive specialties than they are getting? Or are you trying to say that people who, for example, go overseas for medical school want more competitive specialties than they say they want, or simply get? Do you know of anywhere that "take in all of its students"? Or even like what Ochsner, a highly respected residency training network, is doing to help with placements of its own students? You're really not making any sense, and when people who aren't part of a system have a habit of condemning the system with inflammatory rhetoric while insisting on remaining ill-informed, I call that for what it is.
I don't have every fact. I cannot quote to you the precise number of students who were taken in this year in the over-enrollment and state for you their names. I'm going off exactly what I was told by the administration. The facts you and I are truly privy to are those released by the program, which are inherently biased.
I have no idea how this sudden appeal to ignorance supports your assertion that I first addressed:
UQ will take in anyone with a pulse and dump them back off in the US after the 2 years...the medical school has already overenrolled this year (not by accident).
I also have no idea what facts you're privy to, as I haven't been able to verify any. As to the facts that I am (or anyone else is) privy to...is that a question? Is there a particular fact that you are challenging, aside from my use of the word "vernacular"?

But I do have theories as to why people who insist on making the most inflammatory and fallacious claims tend to make them, insistently.
 
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This is from 2013.
http://www.uq.edu.au/news/article/2...duates-achieve-100-match-us-residency-program
Of the 9 students, 4 matched into Ochsner and the others matched into such titans of the medical universe as Eastern Virginia and Wayne State. Schools you could've matched into from Ross...

Ochsner students are viewed exactly the same (e.g. as IMGs) for residency purposes, putting them on the same level as Caribbean grads. So if they are not matching directly into Ochsner, they are no different in the eyes of residency directors as any other IMG.

But oh yes, yes, because some guy named pittman on the internet believes everyone who sees Ochsner for what it is (a money pit and a money grab for UQ MBBS to keep itself financially afloat) must be a 'troll' and their opinions dismissed. Right?


And once again you still don't know what 'vernacular' means. You can employ a pretentious writing style but its not working.

From looking at your back posts it appears you are connected to/familiar with disgraced former dean/fraud Wilkinson, or 'Wilko', as you reverentially refer to the man in posts. Is this what you mean about your insider knowledge of UQ?
 
Hi pitman,

Thanks for your information. Actually the numbers for students admitted on are mededpath website. They have good numbers like 3.3 for undergrad and 3.6 for graduate. I am on my phone otherwise I would look it up. I think the mcat was 26 or 27 cant remember. Thats why I was wondering should I retake my mcat since my undergraduate gpa isnt high. Id really like a fighting chance and can dedicate time to study properly for it.

If you're asking whether you should retake the MCAT before applying to Australian schools, then I'd say apply this time around because there's no punishment for failing to get in if you later re-apply with a higher score (and if you get into just one place, then your decision can THEN be, go there or reapply to schools after retaking the MCAT).

If you're asking whether I think that you should retake the MCAT in order to later apply to American schools (rather than resigning to apply to an Australian school), then I can't answer that for you. While I and others here can (hopefully objectively) point out some of the pros and cons of going overseas (or to UQ or UQO in particular) for medicine, one must weigh these oneself in order to make a decision. I do encourage you to look through the SDN forums going back a number of years for some of these discussions.
 
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Such odd responses, qldking.

This is from 2013.
http://www.uq.edu.au/news/article/2...duates-achieve-100-match-us-residency-program
Of the 9 students, 4 matched into Ochsner and the others matched into such titans of the medical universe as Eastern Virginia and Wayne State. Schools you could've matched into from Ross...
And again, you have not responded to any of the arguments made. It is you who claimed you know how students are being viewed by residency programs, remember? It is you who did this based off of inferences you've made from a sample of 9 (all of whom matched, incidentally -- by your logic, does this not mean that UQO has a higher matching rate than any of the Carib schools?). Yet you made your assumption without knowing where those students applied (oh my) or what specialties they wanted (my oh my). Without knowing how committees viewed those students, what they told them, nor firsthand experience of your own. Persistently, without incorporating the corrections that the students did not go FM as you claimed nor that Ochsner is in the unique position that it can -- and does -- train its own! Such presumption, and intransigence.

But oh yes, yes, because some guy named pittman on the internet believes everyone who sees Ochsner for what it is (a money pit and a money grab for UQ MBBS to keep itself financially afloat) must be a 'troll' and their opinions dismissed. Right?
Sigh. I referred to a troll and explained why I make that claim about him -- did you not understand the explanation, or do you simply refuse to address it? I never called you a troll, never implied it despite its possibility, but further have been explaining in some detail why the claims that you make are themselves invalid. Ergo your claim here is not just fallacious, but simply...wrong. And that's not just an opinion.

And once again you still don't know what 'vernacular' means. You can employ a pretentious writing style but its not working.
And once again you have done the very thing I just said you could -- not look up the word and explain with any reasoning whatsoever why you think it is that I don't know what 'vernacular' means. Despite the...facts...being right at your fingertips. Let me help you start. Let's take, oh I dunno, the American Heritage dictionary, 'cause I'm American:

Vernacular: "An idiomatic word, phrase, or expression."

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/vernacular
^^^ look here ^^^^
I could even explain to you how that definition is connected to the others, if you really are interested in the etymology of vernacular.

Your turn...show how "money pit" is NOT vernacular (maybe by reinventing "idiomatic"?), or even why you think it's productive to insist on claiming the use of such an inconsequential word is incorrect. A telling exercise, isn't this.

From looking at your back posts it appears you are connected to/familiar with disgraced former dean/fraud Wilkinson, or 'Wilko', as you reverentially refer to the man in posts. Is this what you mean about your insider knowledge of UQ?
Your words, not mine. And so here you simply sound paranoid, and once again quite ill-informed. And beyond that, you obviously haven't done your homework beyond seeing what you want to believe, for example overlooking my posts where I have clearly condemned Wilko's behavior on a number of occasions. But, nope. The facts don't matter apparently. Did you also never know Uncle Ken? Shame. Yet another with a commonly used nickname (as most Heads of School have had) who might have been able to teach you a few facts -- on the history, decisions made, white papers, agreements, happenings in internal meetings, finances, selection processes... -- about how a school (your school?) is actually run.
 
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I think you need to learn what 'vernacular' means first before trying to use big words to put down others...

He/she is saying UQ-O was created to make money for the university. Last time I checked its graduates were getting very basic, uncompetitive residencies in the US, all to the tune of a 55k+ tuition yearly. If I were paying that much in tuition to be forced back to the US I would expect the program to be taking in every single one if its students instead of sending them to some ****** Family Medicine residency program (and the like) on the East Coast.

If you compare a family medicine to some crappy dead end research assistant job, it sounds like money well spent.
 
If you compare a family medicine to some crappy dead end research assistant job, it sounds like money well spent.

I don't know about that. It's a very long road, lots of hard work, politics, and long hours. I wonder if or how long it would take before you can even break even financially as a Family Medicine Practitioner in the US.
 
I don't know about that. It's a very long road, lots of hard work, politics, and long hours. I wonder if or how long it would take before you can even break even financially as a Family Medicine Practitioner in the US.

At minimum u'll make 100k and are your own boss (generally), RAs make 30k at best and work under people. I think doctors forget how much better even the worst doctor does compared to other fields. Count your blessings, also realize that as a doctor you are treating patients and are an expert at something, while as an RA you do experiments for others.
 
At minimum u'll make 100k and are your own boss (generally), RAs make 30k at best and work under people. I think doctors forget how much better even the worst doctor does compared to other fields. Count your blessings, also realize that as a doctor you are treating patients and are an expert at something, while as an RA you do experiments for others.

100k in the US is horrible as a doctor. I wouldn't work that many hours unless I was making close to mid 6 figures. You could just be a real estate agent, attorney, or businessperson and make more money with less debt and less knowledge needed.
 
100k in the US is horrible as a doctor. I wouldn't work that many hours unless I was making close to mid 6 figures. You could just be a real estate agent, attorney, or businessperson and make more money with less debt and less knowledge needed.

To be honest dude, you would make a horrible doctor. Its all about the money for you, by that I mean 100% not 80% not 60% not 30% its 100% about the money.
 
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To be honest dude, you would make a horrible doctor. Its all about the money for you, by that I mean 100% not 80% not 60% not 30% its 100% about the money.

When you are in 300k debt and living at the poverty line through and before med school, your heart stops to bleed for the common man and you start to worry a bit more about yourself.

Yeah we all go into it because we like it but at the end of the day you'd be deluded to say 100k after the rigors of applying to med plus med school plus USMLE plus 80 hr workweeks the next 10 years in crappy places is worth it...absolutely deluded. Especially when jerk-offs in QLD mines can make half a million digging the country apart.
 
To be honest dude, you would make a horrible doctor. Its all about the money for you, by that I mean 100% not 80% not 60% not 30% its 100% about the money.
I'm going to agree with qldking here. I'm near $100,000 in debt from undergrad, and am going to take on at least another $250,000 if I go to the US for med school or about $350,000 if I go abroad for medical school. Making $100,000 grand a year just won't cut it paying back those loans.
 
Wow, this thread has kinda escalated. Just my small two cents as a person who knows a lot of doctors young AND old, your salary depends on how successful your private practice is and where you're located. I definitely agree that the beginning years of being a doctor don't pay much but as your reputation grows and your patient circle expands you could make over $250 K a year (most likely through specializing). I'm not sure about family practioners as all the doctors I know have specialized. I think you have to remember why you went into the profession from the beginning and do it as a passion and not a income yielding job. If you want to make more than 100K or even 250 K a year, invest your money into some real estate or business. A lot of the older doctors I know are either involved in hospital ownership or health administration and this makes their income and work hours justifiable. You would say well why go through all the work of going to medical school? I answer in two ways. 1) They wanted to do it 2) They only got to be involved in hospital ownership and health administration by BEING a physician. So at the end of the road, medical school may drain our brains and hearts but it can lead to a lot of pathways to make money. And at the end of the day you will always have a job. I've never heard of an unemployed doctor. This is just my personal opinion and anecdotes, it is the internet so believe what you want at the end of the day. UQ may be over-enrolling but the students must study their asses off to do well on the USMLE and do well in school. So they may not have gotten into the US due to poor academics but they start a new beginning at UQ and show that they are deserving. The school gives people a chance, it isn't just enrolling people who are failing all subjects and can't hack medical school. I agree their admissions may be set low but I kind of like they believe in people's dream to be a doctor despite bad pasts. Kinda cheesy thought process but that's why I'm applying. Maybe I'm romanticizing it but what can I say....I want to help people :)
 
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Wow, this thread has kinda escalated. Just my small two cents as a person who knows a lot of doctors young AND old, your salary depends on how successful your private practice is and where you're located. I definitely agree that the beginning years of being a doctor don't pay much but as your reputation grows and your patient circle expands you could make over $250 K a year (most likely through specializing). I'm not sure about family practioners as all the doctors I know have specialized. I think you have to remember why you went into the profession from the beginning and do it as a passion and not a income yielding job. If you want to make more than 100K or even 250 K a year, invest your money into some real estate or business. A lot of the older doctors I know are either involved in hospital ownership or health administration and this makes their income and work hours justifiable. You would say well why go through all the work of going to medical school? I answer in two ways. 1) They wanted to do it 2) They only got to be involved in hospital ownership and health administration by BEING a physician. So at the end of the road, medical school may drain our brains and hearts but it can lead to a lot of pathways to make money. And at the end of the day you will always have a job. I've never heard of an unemployed doctor. This is just my personal opinion and anecdotes, it is the internet so believe what you want at the end of the day. UQ may be over-enrolling but the students must study their asses off to do well on the USMLE and do well in school. So they may not have gotten into the US due to poor academics but they start a new beginning at UQ and show that they are deserving. The school gives people a chance, it isn't just enrolling people who are failing all subjects and can't hack medical school. I agree their admissions may be set low but I kind of like they believe in people's dream to be a doctor despite bad pasts. Kinda cheesy thought process but that's why I'm applying. Maybe I'm romanticizing it but what can I say....I want to help people :)

The only thing UQ Ochsner believes in is the almighty dollar sign
 
Every school at the end of the day thrives on profit. Granted it shouldn't be the primary goal but that is the reality. That doesn't mean UQ is making bad doctors just because they make money. Does UQ keep students who are failing? Is there no thing such as academic probation or dismissal? Do students pay more to stay in the program? Are there bribes being taken by the school to keep students in the program? Answer to all those questions: NO.

On that note, if you mention the scandal a couple years back with the vice-chancellor's daughter, yes that was shady. BUT those people were punished and the issue was made transparent.

So..I sort of get your point about profit but I also don't get it. At that point why don't we accuse ALL medical schools of the same folly? Why even charge tuition because medicine is the most noble profession right? We should just all attend for free and expect to be paid tons of money (sarcasm). In my opinion UQ has a much better reputation and standing than the Caribbean schools with are clearly FOR profit. Ochsner is a NON PROFIT institution. I don't know what happened to you at UQ but if you hate it so much, transfer or just stop doing medicine. I'm not trying to view UQ through rose colored glasses but at the same time you are creating a viewpoint of UQ for those who browse this forum which I think is unfair. You knew the tuition costs when you started the program, so why did you sign up anyways if you were so against it? Just curious as to what happened with your situation that you hate UQ
 
I don't hate UQ. I'm saying Ochsner is a money grab because it doesn't give you the option to stay in Australia and it gives a marginally at best improved outcome over other IMGs...and it's expensive. It's a lot of work to get through medical school. People here can call me a "troll" all they want, but when you are going into hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, you'll be pissed if certain avenues are blocked off to you careerwise and the school and other people expect you to just take it on the chin. When you aren't paying for your education it's a lot easier to be chill and relaxed about the whole process.

You notice nobody here posts match results but when I posted results of Ochsner people getting into crappy programs (Wayne State, yo! In beautiful Detroit!) I was bashed by pittman et al. And the guy is so disingenuous to suggest people would go all the way to Australia to "definitely" want mediocre residencies in uncompetitive fields. Everyone knows med students are strivers with big egos and that they only settle for certain residencies because they couldn't get into what they wanted. Bottom line.

I just don't want people to be mortgaging their future to a university, when it's become obvious that universities are by and large as scummy as Wall Street. UQ is going to wash its collective hands of you the instant you graduate, so you had better damn well make sure you look after yourself and not let the school push you around like a sheep.

Our parents (Baby Boomers) paid little to nothing for education. Any American who goes to university nowadays is getting raped by the student loans scam---no other country in the world profits off of student loans like the US does (it is the most profitable industry in the US after the military machine).
 
I don't hate UQ. I'm saying Ochsner is a money grab because it doesn't give you the option to stay in Australia .

If they want to say in Australia, they can just enroll in the traditional 4 year Australian program to start with. Problem solved.
 
Yes of course you are right when you pay tuition for a medical school you want certain avenues to be open. Who said that you can't stay in Australia after? Because you actually can according to what admissions told me. They said you can get an internship in Australia but obviously they don't recommend UQ-Ochsner students to stay in Australia due to the difficulty of getting an internship there.

There was even a post somewhere here saying how some UQ-Ochsner student got an offer of internship in Oz. Regarding residency in Australia that is another issue that I am not well informed about with the 10 year moratorium vs. being a permanent resident. So maybe that "avenue" is closed but I guess my view of it is not as negative because I know many IMG students who come over to the US. I know three people who went to the crappiest medical school in Malaysia that had to bribe the school to get in and stay in. Yet, they crammed their asses off on the USMLE and made it into residency in the US. Did the Malaysian school give a crap about them? No. Did it care about where they got residency? No. But that doesn't mean they didn't get a good education. I'm not saying UQ makes it easy for students to come back to the US but they help us start medical school. It is up to the student how well they do on the boards and where they match. Btw someone matched to Emory, which is considered an excellent school. So I think it's unfair of you to rain on their parade.
 
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There's no way in hell an Ochsner student now can get Australian internship. There was something like 1350 applicants in 2014 for 725 spots in Queensland for internship. And QLD Health is not going to take a chance on someone who will probably bail.

Correct me if I am wrong but are Americans no longer allowed to do the 4 year program?

Things have changed a lot. the USMLE pass score has been raised 8 or 10 points this year, IMGs are being forced out, etc. IMGs will become very marginalized in the next 5 years as new US med schools continue to pop up.

UQ has essentially captured the American model of education.

What bothers me is that it's taking students who should have gotten into US med schools and using them for money. I think ochsner should be personally guaranteeing each of its students a residency place in Ochsner, from anything from internal medicine to the most competitive specialty. At that point I would respect the program. I am taking the side of the students here--schools just want to tell you whatever you want to hear, but eventually it becomes too late.

Posters like pittman (check him out on the old UQMS forum-the dude is a notorious agitator who will argue anyone who disagrees with him and attempt a pretentious writing style using 12 paragraphs to express what could be said in one sentence) disagree, but they are much more on the side of the university.
 
You are wrong. Americans, like any other international students, can (and currently are) doing the traditional program.
 
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